2013 and earlier BMW X3 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

div2 · August 2005

Find another dealer; this one is lying to you.

kyfdx · August 2005

This could possibly be the biggest ripoff in history.... But only if you take the deal...

I'm with div2... run as far and as fast as you can from this dealer.. He is a flat out liar...

regards,
kyfdx

div2 · August 2005

Boy, talk about sleazy; no discounts? a $1300 leasing fee? $200 for floor mats? I'd sure like to know which dealer is trying to pull off this scam.

kyfdx · August 2005

Yeah.... I guess to their credit...after they added on a couple of thousand to the price.... they used the base money factor... :surprise:

alexandria · August 2005

This is the Alexandria, VA BMW dealership.

So, what amount should I be paying per month? Which of the "fees" are legitimate? How much can I expect off of the MSRP if I am getting the base MF and the 62% residual?

Thanks for everyones help and comments.

alexandria · August 2005

We signed some initial paperwork to qualify for the loan, as well as a form with this "deal" on it so they could order the car. We also gave them the downpayment check. Can we cancel the check and be done with this?

kyfdx · August 2005

This would be a reasonable deal.

$38,295 MSRP
(HEADS UP).. according to the residual quoted, this would include the destination fee... I think they were adding it on twice.. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
$36,500 selling price
$625 acquisition fee (base fee)
$37,125 Cap cost (selling price + acq.fee)
NO processing fee..
Residual 62%
Money Factor .0010
39mo./39K lease.

Depreciation (monthly) $343.13
Finance (monthly) $60.87
Total payment $404/mo. + tax..

Not sure about tax in VA.. IIRC, the 3.2% is applied to the entire purchase price... this would be about $1200.. If you roll it into the monthly payment, that would add around $30/mo. to the payment...

Due at signing: 1st payment, security deposit, registration fees.. (about $1100-$1200 total).

So... $1200 at signing and about $435/mo including tax..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · August 2005

YES.... yes.. yes...

Call them up ... tell them you changed your mind... cold feet, mother-in-law moving in.... whatever.. You don't want to stop payment on the check without telling them....

But, don't delay.... call and stop payment now...

Don't plan on going back to this dealership, though.. Even if you wanted to (and I wouldn't), they likely won't deal with you anymore..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · August 2005

Even if you paid MSRP for that X3 (which you shouldn't).... If the rest of the deal is the same as my example.....

The payment would only be $480/mo. including tax... with only $1200-$1300 due at signing...

regards,
kyfdx

racno · August 2005

MSRP 36995
Sale price 34995
Money factor .0001
Security deposit 400
Residual 60%
Monthly 389 with 0 down payment and 12000 miles
425 with 15000 miles
Is this a good deal?
Thanks in advance

racno · August 2005

None of the leases seemed to have a clear definition of Lease termination options. Does anyone have experiences in this area

inkyofok · August 2005

you all know there is no 2.5 for 2006 right? I drove a 2004 2.5 with only 3k miles perfect at a jeep dealer in Tulsa yesterday and they are very nice. It was loaded 39k when new (all options except sport) and dealer asking 29 and begging me to buy. Very temped but with auto the 2.5 is sadly guttless since 4000lbs and awd. Price was right and nice ride but that engine while nice in a sedan is out of place. BMW must think so also as it is dropped which makes sense since 325 now has 3.0 in lower HP with 330 in 255 hp mode.

kyfdx · August 2005

It might be a good deal..

1) Does it include tax?

2) What is the amount due at signing?

3) The difference between 12K/yr and 15K/yr should only be about $20/mo... so, I'm wondering why the $36/mo. difference.... The 60% residual is for the 39mo/15K lease... Residual for 39mo/12K lease is 62%

4) $36,995 is the price of a base model... can you actually find one equipped that way?

regards,
kyfdx

mishka7368 · August 2005

Please advise: looking for x3 2.5 lease in NJ. So far the best I found is: car at 33600$ Msrp, 10k/year, 39 month; 319/ month incl tax; 3900 $ out of pocket.
Is it good ? Who knows of any better deal in NJ/ NYC area?

Thanks

div2 · August 2005

$3900 up front? Ouch! Do they promise to call the next morning? :surprise:

mishka7368 · August 2005

2500$ is down; the rest are fees. I do not have breakdown at this point- I just started. Overall, recalculating to monthly paymentit was better that two other dealership: in one I found 347$/month incl.tax +3000 out of pocket; in another 340$/month incl.tax +3900 out of pocket for 35500$ msrp cars. So overall, first deal 319 $/month incl.tax +3900 out of pocket looks better; I am not sure is that good or not compare to other people experience.
Thanks

div2 · August 2005

kyfdx will probably weigh in later; he's the expert on leases- but compared to other deals I've seen those numbers are much too high.

kyfdx · August 2005

Boy... these "$3900 due at signing" leases make it hard to reverse engineer a selling price, but I'll try to take a shot at it...

Remember... this involves a lot of guesswork...

$319 1st payment
$350 Security deposit
$625 Acquisition fee
$300 Title/license/registration
$1100 Sales tax
$1025 Cap cost reduction..

I had to use a cap cost of about $30,750 to get the $319/mo. payment, so that would give a selling price of around $31750-$32000.... assuming my numbers are close...

Not a bad price for a car that only MSRPs for $33,600...

But, you should really be getting quotes for leases with $1500 or less upfront.

With $1200 due at signing, this same lease would be $395/mo... tax included.. Which is the way I would go..

regards,
kyfdx

x3guy · August 2005

First, thank you kyfdx. Your posts were very helpful in getting this deal. Are you a BMW dealer?

Summary: $0 down, $400/mo, 39 months, 10K miles

2005 BMW X3 3.0IA
MSRP: $36300
Titanium Silver: $475
Privacy Glass: $350
Destination Charge: $695
Total MSRP: $37,820

Cap Cost: $35,910 = $35240($250 over invoice)+$45doc fee+$625acq fee
Cap Cost Red: $2
Adj Cap Cost: $35,908
Residual Value: 23826.60
Depreciation: $12081
Rent Charge: $2329
Lease Payments: 369.51+tax=$399.99

My total drive-off was $1102.91 (first month, $400 sec deposit, reg, taxes, CA tire fee)
$399.99/mo for 39 months 10K per year
This was using a MF=0.001 (2.4%)

I had to put a $2 cap reduction in order to keep the payments under $400 so my security deposit stayed at $400 and not $450. The security deposit is apparently set at the next $50 mark above your lease payment. So, for an extra $2, I get to keep $50 in my pocket for the next 39 months :-).

I found the dealer through an internet pricing site. I did so many of them, I don't know how I connected with him. The internet is truly the best way to buy a car. I was in and out of the dealership in a couple hours.

I feel this was a great deal.

Thanks again, kyfdx.

mishka7368 · August 2005

Thanks. Please explain further : 319 includes taxes (299$ is monthly payment + taxes~20 $?) ; is it together with 1100$ sales tax (per your comment) or instead?
Dealer mentioned that 2500$ is downpayment; should I ask them just redistribute down to 39 month : 2500$/ 39 month = 64 $ - is that should be additional per month; i.e. total per month should be 299$+64$= 363$ +tax ???

Thanks

racno · August 2005

Kyfdx Thanks for your response. I will answer your questions in the same order
1) The price doesn't include taxes.
2) Outside of security deposit there is no amount required for cash down
3) I am not sure how the dolar amount went up by 36 - will verify with the dealer
4) You are right- i am expecting the cost to go up by around $2000 with some options

kyfdx · August 2005

$1100 upfront and $400/mo. for a $38K car.... is a good deal, no matter how you slice it..

Nice work,
kyfdx

kyfdx · August 2005

I was just using a hypothetical...

But, yes... I'd rather back that $2500 downpayment out of the deal, and yes, it will add a corresponding amount to the payment.... but, it will end up being a little more than $2500 / 39, because you'll have finance charges on the $2500 that is included in the payment.. So, maybe $365/mo.+ tax...

The deal looks okay... just avoid putting all that money upfront...

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · August 2005

If the acquistion fee is added into the cap cost, the 12K/yr number is pretty close.. maybe about $5/mo. too high... That would leave only 1st payment, security deposit and registration fees due at signing... And, of course plus taxes..

If you get a comparable deal for a more expensive model, figure about $12-$13/mo. higher per every $1000 higher MSRP...

He may have just been quoting 15K numbers off the top of his head... The difference should only be $20-$22/mo. more...

regards,
kyfdx

bmw_x3_2005 · August 2005

Interested in buying a X3 2.5, as this model won't be in production in 06. Is now a good time to buy? I checked some dealers around and they basically asked for 1K higher than invoice price. Is this a good price?

Thanks.

blackeye800 · August 2005

I bought a X3 3.0 two weeks ago for 500 over invoice in rochester,ny and noticed some posts for even less. Aim for a price 500 below invoice as 2.5 does not seem to be as popular as 3.0. Good luck.

blu777 · August 2005

Hi there again, I looked into leasing the X3 3.0 as suggested and here's the deal they are offering...is this legit?

For an automatic White on Beige leather with premium pkg., privacy glass and satellite prep:

Initially their best offer was:
purchase price: $36,720
MSRP: $39,220 (plus tax and DMV)
Residual: 63% of MSRP
MF: .001 with a $450 deposit
39 month lease

I got them to lower the purchase price to $36,270
The lease came out to: $404/mo + tax = $427/mo.
Drive off: $1209.40

I'm in CA and the tax here is 8.25%

Thanks for the help! Also, should I roll the deposit into the lease?

Blu

kyfdx · August 2005

If I use $36,270 as the purchase price... the only way I can get to $404/mo.+ tax, is to assume the acquistion fee is rolled into the cap cost (this looks right), and the money factor is bumped up to the maximum .0014.....

It looks like they are bumping up the money factor.. At the base money factor, the payment would only be $380/mo.+ tax..

I wouldn't roll in the security deposit...

regards,
kyfdx

blu777 · August 2005

Sorry, a litle confused about the cap cost. Not sure what that means..forgive the ignorance on that one. Should the acquisition fee be included in the purchase price, or are they right to be charging me $625 (he says that they also must tax me on this now). He insists he's giving me a .001 money factor. How much should I be paying with the numbers I have?

Thanks!
Blu

kyfdx · August 2005

Yes... the acquisition fee gets added to all leases... You can roll it into the payment (cap cost is the selling price + any additions to the selling price.. like the acq.fee).

The only other discrepancy I could see that would explain it.... is if the MSRP you quoted me is wrong... In other words, if you have added accessories on to the price, etc....

Only the MSRP on the bottom of the sticker is used to calculate the residual... You didn't add in any other amounts there, did you?

regards,
kyfdx

blu777 · August 2005

Hmmm...This MSRP reflects the options on the vehicle

MSRP: 39220
purchase: 36270
application fee: 45
acquisition: 625 +tax
title/reg. cost: 305
residual: 24708
deposit: 450
10k/yr. 39 month lease
.001 money factor
8.25% tax
drive off is 1209 when you include deposit, app. fee, registration/title and first month lease
That's all I got...let me know and thank you again!

Blu

kyfdx · August 2005

I added the $625 acquisition fee to the selling price.. to get a cap cost of $36,895

With everything the same as you have listed, the payment should be $374/mo.+ tax... Tax is about $31/mo. if they tax the payment where you live (what state do you live in?).

So, that comes to $405/mo.

At inception: 1st payment, security deposit ($450), title/registration/app ($350).. for a total of around $1200....

My only other explanation for the discrepancy: Maybe he is running the numbers for 36 months, instead of 39 months... the residuals and money factor are the same, so running it for the shorter period (by mistake) would result in the higher payment...

regards,
kyfdx

blu777 · August 2005

I live in California-- 8.25% tax. I put the numbers in the edmunds lease calculator and it comes to $415/mo for 39 months. Is this a good deal for this model with these options or should I be asking for less (if I get the dealer to agree with the edmunds calculator of course)?

Blu

kyfdx · August 2005

It doesn't look like a bad deal, even at $425/mo.. Less is always better.. If you are in CA, I'm sure I calculated that correctly...

So, unless your dealer is calculating it incorrectly by mistake, then he is either bumping up the MF, or he is not selling the car for the price he says he is....

But, my first inclination is that $36,270 is an incredibly low selling price... So, I might hope to get another $10-$20 off the monthly price... but, if I didn't, $425/mo. seems like a pretty good deal for a $39K car...

regards,
kyfdx

blu777 · August 2005

So you're saying it should still be about $405/mo. with these numbers in California? Is the edmunds calculator reliable, because it said $415. It seems that unless I get them down further on the purchase price, which seems unlikely at this point in the game, I don't have much room to negotiate? Is there any way I can wiggle the numbers a bit to your knowledge?

Thanks for all the advice and I'll be sure to let you know how it went!

Blu

kyfdx · August 2005

Sometimes the Edmunds lease calculator adds in some strange numbers.. The lease calculations are fairly simple, and I do them on a spreadsheet.... And, yes.. $405/mo is correct using your numbers...

I don't think you have any chance of getting the purchase price any lower.. All you can do is ask if they are adding anything else into the Cap Cost, besides the $625 acquisition fee..

Unless they are adding in other charges and not disclosing... there can only be two explanations..

1) They are mistakenly figuring the lease as 36 months, instead of 39 months.

OR

2) They are bumping up the money factor to .0014... It is possible the finance office could be doing this without letting the CA know about it..

So, do what you can.. press them on the issue... If you can't get it lower, the price is pretty good, as is...

regards,
kyfdx

blu777 · August 2005

Just the advice from edmunds to fax the dealers in my area for a quote was invaluable in getting to this price in the first place. Thanks a bunch for everything and I'll let you know

Blu

gingibi · August 2005

Dealer is offering the following:

2005 X3 2.5 titanium gray with black leatherette, 6-speed manual

installed options:
249 milti-function steering wheel
402 panorama moonroof
429 aluminum finish interior trim
459 power front seats
520 fog lights
522 xenons

MSRP: $35850

Selling Price: Invoice ($33215) plus $1000

Lease: Owners choice: 39 monhts, 12k miles/yr, $2500 due at signing
Payment: $434/month

Is this a good deal?

Thank you for your help.

kyfdx · August 2005

I show invoice at around $32,900 for that configuration... But, the difference could be due to MACO (regional advertising)..

I can't reallly comment on your Owner's Choice deal, as I don't follow the interest rates/residuals for that program. Any reason you can't do a regular lease? What state do you live in?

regards,
kyfdx

gingibi · August 2005

I live in Texas.

What is the difference between regular lease and Owners Choice?

Would you recommend a regular lease? What would be good numbers for a regular lease for the above vehicle.

Thank you!

kyfdx · August 2005

In Texas, you pay sales tax on the whole car, instead of just on the lease payments.... they tend to push the Owner's Choice, so that if you decide to keep the car, you don't have to pay sales tax on it, again....

It is a balloon note, rather than a lease... In effect, it is the same, if you turn the car in at the end of the lease/balloon term.

I'll run the numbers for a regular lease... .and we'll see how they compare... Does your $2500 include everything you have to pay at signing? And.. do your numbers include the sales tax?

regards,
kyfdx

gingibi · August 2005

Not sure how the dealer calculates the monthly payment.

The sale price is invoice ($33215) plus $1000 plus TTL. I think the sales tax in TX is 6.25%.

$2500 includes everything due at signing.

kyfdx · August 2005

Does the payment he quoted include the sales tax?

gingibi · August 2005

Yes, this should be the whole payment.

Thank you for your help!

gingibi · August 2005

I am sure I can push for regular lease instead of Owners Choice if it gives me better numbers.

I would like to keep my monthly payments below $400 and pay the least possible amount due at signing.

Please run the numbers for a regular lease.

Your help is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

kyfdx · August 2005

I ran the numbers... Of course, I have to guess on the exact tax and registration fees, etc...

Doing a regular lease, I come within about $8/mo. of the payment they quoted for the Owner's Choice.... Since that is only about $300 over the term of the lease, you can chalk that up to almost anything..

Given that, I'd stick with the Owner's Choice.. If you end up keeping the car after the 39 month term, you'll be much better off that way, than with the lease...

As I tell almost everyone else looking at the 2.5... Ask them what the payment would be on a comparably equipped 3.0 model... You might be surprised at how small the difference will be.

regards,
kyfdx

avantgo · August 2005

X3 3.0 MSRP of 40,345 - with premium package, cold weather, heated seats, and privacy glass - silver gray with black interior
Buying price of $38,345
Lease term: 39 months - 12,000 miles annually
Confirmed the 0.00100 lease factor but don't have all other details yet
Pricing quoted is $2195 upfront (tax, deposit, first month payment, Ohio apparently requires sales tax upfront, ) and $452/month.

Based on what I've seen here, these numbers seem higher, though I'm not sure where.

Quote for 39 months, 15,000 miles annual is $472 with similar upfront payment.

Thanks in advance.

kyfdx · August 2005

If $2195 includes all that...

I rolled the $625 acq. fee into the cap cost
MSRP 40345
Sale price $38345
Cap cost $38970

39mo/12K residual is 62%
Money factor is .0010

Payment is $422/mo.

39mo/15K residual is 60%
Money factor is .0010

Payment is $442/mo.

They are either adding something else into the cap cost, or they are bumping up the money factor.

The one item that gives me pause.. $2195 upfront.. after subtracting $950 for first payment and security deposit, that leave $1250 for tax and registration.. That seems low for Ohio.. they recently changed their tax treatment of leases, and I'm not sure how it works now... But, that amount seems low.. Are you getting a tax credit on a trade-in?

regards,
kyfdx

avantgo · August 2005

Thank you for your quick help. The information on the residuals for 39 months is certainly helpful.

Regarding the tax treatment for Ohio - that has been confusing for me as well. The best that I can assess is that the $1150 or thereabouts (if I subtract $100 for registration) is the tax is for the difference between the Capcost and the residual - in which the case the numbers are close.

Thanks again.

avantgo · August 2005

Found a 2002 posting that explains some of the tax treatment in Ohio. See below:

"I recently heard some information that I thought some of you might find helpful when leasing a new vehicle, well OK just those of you who live in the state of Ohio. Changes were recently made in Ohio's tax taws that require all sales and use taxes for leased vehicles to be paid by the dealer upfront. This new law officially began on February 1st, 2002. After this date, taxes on leased vehicles in Ohio will be collected in advance and be based on the total amount paid by the lessee under the lease agreement, including any down payment that they made to reduce the vehicle's capitalized cost. So in order to figure exactly how much tax you owe on your leased car or truck, take the sum of all of your lease payments, add your down payment to it, and multiply it by Ohio's 5% tax rate. This sales tax may be collected in full or be baked into the vehicle's capitalized cost. Please feel free to use this discussion to discuss this specific tax law or tax laws in general. Thank you.

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2013 and earlier BMW X3 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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