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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "If you remember SelectShift was not available on the Tbird when it first came out and it was added later. It will be there."

    Wouldn't it be novel if Ford would fully develop a car and then introduce it?
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    THen why would they buy it? And in many cases, it's standard rather than an option.

    If it's standard, they have no choice. If it's optional and they buy it, I'd be willing to bet lunch that they bought it because it seemed cool, just as those electrolumenscent gauges are cool. To me, it's all needless gimmickry. If I want to shift, I'll buy a stick and have the fun of coordinating the clutch and shifter.

    I posed the same question on another post as 06Zephyr. I'd love to see some stats on how many people actually use their manumatic after the novelty wears off. I'd bet another lunch that it would be precious few. And, it's precious few who shift out of D.

    I do agree that the "D-L" will turn some buyers off, just because it will look odd, and they won't give any more thought to how they're driving their cars now. To the extent it does that, then it is too bad.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Wouldn't it be novel if Ford would fully develop a car and then introduce it?

    Hmm. Yes, that thought has crossed my mind, too.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Have you seen the new 2008 CTS? I almost wet my pants.

    You really get excited about this, don't you? ;)

    Would you really buy a G35 over a Zephyr? I've always thought their interiors seemed pretty cheap. IMO.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Would you really buy a G35 over a Zephyr? I've always thought their interiors seemed pretty cheap. IMO.

    I don't like the Nissan or Infiniti interiors. They all look cheap to me. Which is disappointing because I really like the exterior and performance of the 350Z.
  • caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    Anyone know when the 007 MkZ will hit the showrooms?
  • Seen the G35 update for 2007? Much nicer interior. Yes, I'd definitely consider the G35 over the MKZ, because it has more power, rear wheel drive, better balance, and doesn't share its body with anything else.

    Frankly, I don't care if cars share architecture and platforms when you can get such different animals as the Ford Five Hundred and the Volvo S80 (or the Mazda6 and MKZ) out of the same one, but the MKZ will not have the status it needs at its price point until it can be better differentiated from the Milan.

    It is only a matter of time (and engine building capacity) before the Milan and Fusion offer the 3.5 (and AWD). With the Camry, Altima, Sonata, etc., offering more V6 hp already, it is inevitable. Then what will distinguish the present MKZ, besides its largely uniguw interior styling?
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    Hang in there, George, and keep demanding more than just "adequate." And, yes, the Mazda6 does have a shiftable automatic.

    Manual control of an automatic may be a fad or novelty for some but not for me. I have always utilized some manual control in specific situations - long before the term "manumatic" had even been invented.

    Yes, it is about control. A transmission cannot "see" traffic patterns, traffic lights, upcoming corners, downgrades, nor can it sense accurately what the driver is thinking.

    Both of my daily drivers are 5 speed automatics. Under light acceleration, both automatically go into 4th at about 20 MPH and OD at about 40. If the downtown traffic is fluctuating along between 0 - 25 MPH, the transmission naturally shifts between 1st, 3rd, and 4th depending upon the speed. That is unnecessary shifting as far as I am concerned. I just use 3rd for a smoother shift-free driving experience. Similarly if traffic on a street or busy freeway is fluctuating between 35 and 45 MPH, I lock out OD. No sense in upshifting to OD for just a second or two if I see the traffic is slowing down to a point where OD is no longer viable.

    If you have ever done any mountain driving, you know that you want some engine braking when going down. Manual control is great for that. When climbing, selection and holding gears is useful to avoid upshifts when slowing down for corners and downshifts when accelerating through or out of the corner.

    I realize none of the above examples are absolutely necessary - I could just leave it in drive and let the transmission shift for itself. No doubt most people do exactly that and if so, manual control is just a silly gimmick for you. For a few of us, however, manual control is a critical feature that enhances the enjoyment, engagement, and smoothness of the driving experience.

    Just D/L doesn't cut it for me but I am confident that Ford will eventually join most other manufacturers and offer some manual control of their transmissions.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Regardless of the rationalization of whether it's needed or not, or will ever be used, the "Powerglide" inspired D-L shifter makes an unfortunate statement about Ford Inc. and what it thinks of it's buyers.

    They are saving $4.52 per unit and you aren't smart enough to notice on a 10 minute test drive.

    It's called a false sense of economy.
  • On a $35,000 car, it is just ridiculous that a manumatic is missing, even if you never use it.

    By the time you reach that price point, there are lots of expected features, that in reality make no difference for most of us. But if you are going to charge big bucks, or be an entry level "luxury" car, you must provide features that may not ever be used or appreciated all that much by most drivers, except for the knowledge that they are there. Fusion or Malibu driver are not expected to have the same amenities as Lincoln.

    Lincoln markets "luxury" that does not include items considered standard even by plebeian brands like Hyundai and Toyota. That is a problem. If you never use the feature is beside the point. Luxury csrs have always offered features that some people never use. It is part of the concept of luxury.

    How many people truly appreciate the extra small percent of quality sound gained from a $15,000 stereo system v. a $2,000 system? Not many. But some do. That's why the high priced luxury versions exist: a very few actually appreciate the small qualitative difference. The rest are saying, "I can afford this," or "I worked hard and this is my reward."

    If the Fusion and Milan offer the 3.5 and AWD like the MKZ within a year or so, yet none of them have stability control as standard, then even if the MKZ is as good as it gets with FWD mid-size sedans, it will not be perceived as such. Rational arguments like "who really uses it anyway after one or two times" really don't cut it in this league.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Have any of you seen the new G35? I'd take it over the MKZ, no questions asked. It has more power, more luxury, and more design. I'd definitely take a 3-Series over it as well. Also add in the 2008 CTS. Especially if entry to these cars is cheaper or on par with the MKZ.

    Now some some are going to start talking about AWD which I never talked about. Think about this, what if you live in Florida. What if you have driven luxury cars before and simply don't care about AWD. Remember also that MOST LUXURY CARS ARE SOLD WITHOUT AWD. So the facts are, too most, it isn't effecting their buying decision. Lincoln needs to recognize that the MZK is not on the level of a BMW 3-Series. The BMW has all types of things going for it. I own a Mazda6 and I still wouldn't put Mazda's driving capabilities over BMW or Infiniti or Caillac. I'm sorry but they could have ruled the $27K-34K market, now they are going to get slaughtered.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Being a Florida native, I would say I prefer AWD. And I've always had RWD vehicles but considering that our summer cycle gives us afternoon showers, it's not uncommon for the stability control system to blink at me 2-3 times a day. AWD adds an extra measure of safety and drivability.

    Not everyone wants a 3-Series, not everyone wants a G35. While they are the benchmarks for most automotive journalists, not everyone has that similar taste. And for them, there's other vehicles that might possess other qualities they find endearing.

    A vehicle isn't a dud,, a loser, or get slaughtered because it doesn't lead in 0-60sec times, braking, handling, interior materials, options/toys. For the buyer, the vehicle must possess the qualities they feel are important to THEM, in a package THEY are happy with. I personally have yet to find the perfect vehicle that leads on all the above, but yet, must make concessions on the items I feel are important to me.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    ANT I agree with you that it's the total package taht counts and buyers are very different but in that 30 - 35K range you've got some real heavy hitters that offer almost any package you could ask for. I mean you have the VW Passat, the Audi A4, the G35, the Lexus IS, the Merc C-Class, the BMW 3-Series. All of this (save for the Passat) are a little more premium than the Zephyr. The only glaring advantage the Zephyr really has is the AWD and most buyers in the segment don't even buy the AWD option.

    Though the Zephyr is a great car, I think the market is saying something. I think with the almost $4K gap between MSRP and invoice, most Zephyr are going below MSRP. There have been ads in my area for $28K for a while now. I think it would be a mistake to put teh Zephyr right up against these heavy hitters. If it were more designed liek the concept inside and out, I'd have said go on and have a field day but not the way it is now. I guess time will prove the rights and wrongs on this one.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Seen the G35 update for 2007? Much nicer interior.

    No, but will be interested in seeing it.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Looks like Lincoln wants to be the incentive leader for 2006.

    They cannot start much north of 30 IMO. 30K is fine, with some sort of 4 cyl 28K model with better fuel economy would be helpful.

    Does this car have Bluetooth or voice activated controls? You know, like in a 27K Accord?
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "Does this car have Bluetooth or voice activated controls? You know, like in a 27K Accord? "

    No, but it has a wicked prop-rod.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    A luxury brand shouldn't do a 4 cylinder engine. Just doesn't sit right with me, especially in their entry sedan.

    scooter, you are hilarious.
  • rolo77rolo77 Member Posts: 31
    WHATS THE ESTIMATED TIMES FOR THE 263 HP MKZ AWD, WILL IT
    BE BELOW 7.0 SECONDS, US MILITARY OVERSEAS FOR 6 YEARS RETURNING IN NOV 06, SO OUT OF THE LOCAL CAR LOOP FOR
    A WHILE.

    CHIEF
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    I love all the criticism from all the "car experts."..Im sure you havent purchased the car and yet you still seem to knock it every chance you get. There are 57 reviews from those that own it and have rated it a 9.7. I think thats pretty damn good for a first year car. Could Ford have done other things with the car, sure they could have but it would have raised the price point. Regardless of what else Ford might have done I'm sure the "car experts" on this board would have still found faults. I would love to hear from more people who have the car. Those criticisms I would consider meaningful.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I understand what you say there. But I am sure Ford might be just as interested in why others have NOT bought the car. When I am looking for a car (and I am), I want to hear from both camps...those who bought and why they are and aren't happy with their purchase...and those who passed it up and why they did so. Then and only then do I feel I got a more complete picture of why I should or should not consider the make and model I am looking at.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    Id be more concerned with the comments from those that have the vehicle and have been drving it for a few thousand miles. I really pay little attention to the comments of those that dont have the vehicle.It is the real life issues that im concerned with and not the fact the someone does not like the car because it does not offer paddle shifters or they feel the 250 hp would be more beneficial. Let someone that has one tell me their issues and it makes more sense to me.
  • Especially if they have compared their loved purchase to the competition. The fact is that most cars in or near that price point are awfully good these days. You are unlikely to make a purchase you dislike. However, without back to back comparisons, it is hard to say whether or not you would have liked another model or brand even better. For Lincoln's sake, I hope they field a product soon that will appeal to a much broader appreciative audience. Right now defensive owners have to contend with lots of people who damn the thing with faint praise.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    I can honestly say that i can find something that is not to my taste on every vehicle out there. What does that mean...the vehicle is no good..no it just means that something does not appeal to my personal taste. To get the real value of a car I need to see what an owner says about it. Then I can make a good decision. Most of the American public is brainwashed to the fact that foreign cars are much better than American ones. If you go to the forums you will see that they have as many issues as American cars
    faint praise by non owners.....I would not call a 9.7 rating by the users as faint praise. That is what means something if one is looking to purchase.
  • Most of the American public is brainwashed to the fact that foreign cars are much better than American ones. If you go to the forums you will see that they have as many issues as American cars

    You have a point, but brainwashing may be overstating it. Historically, American manufacturers earned their reputations with unreliable, poorly screwed together cars. Nowadays, there are "American" (I still have problems with that term, given foreign content, multi-national car companies, "American" cars built in Canada, Mexico, etc. and Japanese cars built here) models that are as reliable or more reliable than some of the best rated Japanese brands.

    Still, on an issues per car basis, lots of manufacturers need to improve more than others. That may be one factor in a purchase, but so many others go into the decision too. Where you rank it is an individual decision.

    For me, my last American sedan (an Oldsmobile) needed several dealer visits for warranty related work. It was covered and fixed, but inconvenient...when I have the experience several times since the late 80's of buying a car and never having to revisit the dealer except for oil changes for the duration of the warranty. I am not brainwashed, just wary. I also know that some Buick models top the reliability lists. There just isn't a Buick I want!

    That's my problem with Lincoln right now too. Nothing they currently market do I want to own. The Zephyr comes the closest, but doesn't make the final cut. The 9.7 rating is good, but it is not enough to outweigh what is not there for me. To each his or her own.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    3378, slightly less than the Milan. It's not a bad figure, when you consider how the Zephyr's other competitors like the TSX sold only 3911 units and the ES330 sold 4603 units.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Saw a black one on the road today. I thought it looked classy.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    "Most of the American public is brainwashed to the fact that foreign cars are much better than American ones."

    Am I brainwashed or am I just not buying what they are telling me? Are you telling me I am brainwashed in thinking the 3 Series, G35, and TL are better than the Zephyr because that is what I have been saying in this forum. I don't have concrete reasons for that?

    Secondly, your motives for being on the forums is not everyone elses. Some people going through a buying decision like to see what others think about the car and how it competes in the segment. Many may want a $30 entry level luxury car but be unsure of which one and don't want to just trust auto mags. There may be several entry level luxury owners that checked this forum before theit purchase. They need to know why the Zephyr isn't up to snuff in many regards.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    I may agree with you on the BMW but for a lot more money. The ride in the zephyr is far superior to the TL and the G35 and for less money. the heated and cooled seats the stereo are also superior to the TL and G35. I have not tested the BMW so i really cant comment on the ride or stereo.Lincoln is at the top for Customer service according to JD. Power. People who own the car have rated it a 9.7. Will it appeal to everyone, no it wont. I do not think the foreign cars mentioned are far superior at all. Granted the zephyr is new and we dont have reliability info yet to compare it to the 3 you mentioned. Dollar for dollar the Zephyr has it over those 3 vehicles.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Dollar per dollar and ride-wise, I completely agree with you. If the Zephyr handled as well as the Fusion, I'd be driving one right now. The handling (which they say they are improving for 07) is the chief reason I did not buy one. I like a tighter, more controlled handling, which usually means a stiffer ride. Rarely can you have both great handling and a smooth, comfortable, quiet ride. The Lincoln Zephyr is biased in favor of the latter, so much so that I was not interested.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Pretty good review. Seems to hit the car's strong points right on.

    One thing struck me in the specs page and that's this:
    Warranty (mo/miles): 36/36,000 comprehensive - 60/60,000 powertrain

    Has Lincoln really weakened the warranty on all but the drivetrain to 3 yrs from 5? That would be a major point against it if true.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's a typo. It's still 4 yrs or 50K miles with 1 year of free maintenance.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    I do basicaslly hwy driving...the handling is fine for me and i love the smooth ride and the THX Certified sound system
    If i want to go crazy and want handling take my sports car out
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Thanks, Allen. Wish these reviewers would get important stuff like that correct. So the powertrain is 4/50K as well then?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    AFAIK - yes. No changes to the standard Lincoln warranty.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    interesting quote from a Zephyr review...

    Its punch flows through a smooth shifting 6-speed automatic transmission, sans a manual-mode feature. Although the absence of a manual-mode may disappoint some, it's really not necessary in this class of vehicle. Driving the Zephyr is all about comfortable, carefree motoring; not hot-footed speed-mongering through curves and up hills; not that the Zephyr isn't capable of such.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Say, 06Z, let's agree to disagree on this. Like he says it *will* disappoint some. Since the Z is capable of such driving, it ought to have transmission control that doesn't work against it.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    What's the point of having a transmission feature that's very rarely used, if ever? Why bother to incur higher cost and increased complexity which could enhance the possibility of mechanical failure?

    I think Lincoln was correct in giving it the transmission it has. The big improvement was in the fact it has six speeds with seamless transitions throughout the whole range rather than a boy racer type of transmission for which the target audience has virtually no use whatsoever.
  • You have a point, but you are being too rational. ;)

    Many people who buy luxury cars want extra features, whether or not these are practical additions. Especially if all the relevant competition have that feature.

    It's like stability control...the Lincoln does not have it, and may not need it, but many people won't buy a vehicle these days without it. If Lincoln wants to play in this arena, they cannot count on only making sales to rational guys like you. They need to equip the car as as the other relevant models are equipped, or they will lose sales.

    Another example is the 3.0 liter engine. That ought to be more than sufficient for most people's needs. Unfortuately, if competitors offer more power, especially for similar gas mileage, adequate isn't going to cut it with many buyers in this league. Sensible? No. In addition, the 3.5 will further differentiate the MKZ from the Fusion...at least for a year or two (the Fusion will need the 3.5 eventually to stay even with the competition).

    Lincoln needs to compete and win, or it will go away. That you are satisfied with your purchase is great. Lincoln needs more buyers like you, and will only get there by fielding products that truly stand out. The car world moves at breakneck speed nowadays.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    not a problem

    each to his own
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    LINCOLN - The car for rational people.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    "What's the point of having a transmission feature that's very rarely used, if ever?"

    You mean Neutral? Or 'L'? WHo ever uses that? Take it out. After all, it's like life in Drive right?

    " boy racer type of transmission for which the target audience has virtually no use whatsoever"

    I don't know how old you and the other folks are who are arguing against being able to have some control over the gears in their vehicle. I'll tell you I ain't no boy racer, but I own a Lincoln which I can shift. When Lincoln designed and built that car, the LS, they said they were aiming for a younger demographic that their average age which was then about 72 I think. The LS brought the age down by offering a car with sporty handling and a **choice** of transmissions to go along. I don't know the numbers but I'd be willing to bet that more LSes were sold with SelectShift transmissions than with non-Select. And the non-Select had 2 or 3 more gear choices than does the Z.

    You probably are right though, Lincoln's target audience for this car - The BLUE HAIR Set - has no use for anything other than P or D on their shifters. Take out the 'R' too, cause they don't see too good behind.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    LINCOLN - The car for rational people.

    Well, Volvo is apparently having some influence. ;)
  • caliddcalidd Member Posts: 60
    Anyone know whether Lincoln will offer the 007 MKz in any new colors?
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    What's the point of having a transmission feature that's very rarely used, if ever? Why bother to incur higher cost and increased complexity which could enhance the possibility of mechanical failure?

    The xtra cost is minor and the tranmission has been around for five years now. Also as stated so many times before, you cana find it in almost all other vehilcles in its class. Somebody must have thought it important over at Lexus, and Acura, and BMW, and Kia, and Hyundai, and Mazda, and Infiniti, and Toyota, and Chevy, and Cadillac, and well you get the picture.

    The reviewer has said the Lincoln is basically not for people who like to serious drive their cars, the performance crowd. Interestingly enough the car that leads that segment, the 3-Series, is directed right at the performance crowd, and the G35, and the TL, and the CTS, and the IS, and the A4, and the list goes on. So you'd be saying that Lincoln is not even trying to pursue the larger piece of the pie with this car.

    You are acting just like Ford and telling people what they want and saying what they have use for. Too bad the buyer doesn't think like that. THe buyer looks at the competition and says "hey a feature that the MKZ doesn't have" and though they may not use it, they ill perceive the other car a more premium car because of the new technology. How many people really use all the technology in a luxury car in the first place. However, that same technology is what is selling the car.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    ...they ill perceive the other car a more premium car because of the new technology. How many people really use all the technology in a luxury car in the first place. However, that same technology is what is selling the car.

    I've been in the anti manumatic crowd, agreeing w/ others here in surmising that after the newness wears off, the self-shifting stops.

    However, driverdm's closing thought makes a lot of sense. Probably most people don't use all of the technology available, but hasn't introducing new technology always been part of what makes a luxury car a luxury car? If a luxury marque doesn't stay on the cutting edge of technology, then I'd argue it's lost the status of being a luxury marque.

    I would, however, prefer they make the technology available, not force it on me by making it all standard. Choice is another thing luxury marques give the buyer.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Member Posts: 32
    There is an argument that the manual shift function on an automatic is usually forgotten and ignored by owners, after an initial burst of enthusiasm. There may be some truth to that observation, but it depends on the type of car. In a large luxury car, I'd agree that most users probably will not appreciate the manual shifting option. But the more sporting the car's aspirations, the more appropriate is the inclusion of a wheel actuated shift system.

    This article explains all this very well and makes the good comparison about "luxury" and "sports" as far as paddle shifting or the auto/man shift option. Though not needed in this car,as far as im concerned, I can see the need to offer it if you are trying to attract a new type of customer.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, it's a feature the competition has and there are a few people who won't buy one without it. But for now sales are good and they're busy launching a brand spanking new engine and tranny that's never been used in any vehicle AND AWD all at the same time. Adding the manumatic software now would just make it that much more difficult to troubleshoot and more error prone.

    So I think it's a wise BUSINESS decision to wait - I'm sure they'll add it for 2008. In the meantime I think they'll continue selling all the MkZs they can make.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Approaching my Melot Zephyr right around dusk with a group of folks. Click the open button. The lights come on and the interior lights up and the cream leather with the blond wood takes the breath away from the group. All I heard was how nice the car looks. I am a happy camper with the car. :shades:
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