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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I will be taking a good look at the Milan Hybrid. If it gets over 30 mpg I am switching over!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's basically the same drivetrain as the 2009 Escape hybrid. I'd figure slightly better highway FE (more aerodynamic) - maybe 30/34.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The 2009 Escape Hybrid does 34 city/31 highway, so I would expect that the Milan will best that by a mile or two at least.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Highway, yes because it's more aerodynamic. But I think the Fulan is heavier than the Escape so city mileage might be slightly lower. Also not sure they're using the same transmission. But it should be close.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The Fusion is not significantly weavier than the Escape, It ought to do better than the Escape's already good numbers.. If not, someone was asleep at the switch,
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Weird but despite the high prices I have yet to even see a Ford Hybrid on the road anywhere.
  • cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    They must all be in metro DC. It seems about every other Escape is a hybrid.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I am in in Northern Va and have not see one every. I am starting to see more MKZ's. Almost every day. There is no doubt that traffic is starting to drop on the roads.
  • badhugobadhugo Member Posts: 10
    Anyone know when 911 Assist will be available on the 2009 MKZ?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's either a Job 2 item later this fall or it may wait for the 2010 model that rolls off the line in December, on sale in January. From what I hear it's worth waiting for. Mini-MKS is the term I've used.
  • exhaustedexhausted Member Posts: 21
    I am looking at a used 2006 Zephyr with 85k km. I travel avg 55k km/yr (mostly hwy) I have heard the gas mileage isnt so great. Consumer reports says 30 mpg hwy. Can anyone give me an idea of some real world numbers?

    Thanks
    Scott
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    Never have gotten better than 26-28 with my 08 MKZ ... that is at 65-70. When possible I travel at 75-80 mileage drops to 22-23. Have 15k after 10 months, no problems, love the car.

    Jerry
    .
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    It's not a gas saver...it's supposed to be a near luxury sedan. Why would you look at 30 mpg as not so hot? That is really good for a midsize. The 06 was really just a Fusion with some extra lipstick. It should get that mpg if you drive judiciously. The 07 has a bigger engine and AWD option, so mileage will be less. If you want really high mpg, why look at a Zephyr at all? And if you want something with a few more bells and whistles, then mpg won't be your first priority.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I've heard the 2010 MKZ referred to as a "mini-MKS" which would be a good thing. I really think they should offer a 4 cylinder version and a hybrid. No need to give up the little luxury items just to get good fuel economy.
  • exhaustedexhausted Member Posts: 21
    Well....the wife wants a 4 banger! Gas up here in Canada is a killer ($5.11/gal)!!!
    I use this as my office, so I think I can justify the extra cost. Have an '02 Buick Rendezvous AWD avg. 21mpg now. Looks as if I'm still better off.

    Thanks
  • exhaustedexhausted Member Posts: 21
    That's not bad at all. I can travel 74 mph here without any worry of a ticket. The '08 has a bigger engine than '06 as well as AWD correct? Therefore, I should do better.
    Thanks
  • rablawrablaw Member Posts: 16
    I am deciding whether to lease a 2009 MKZ, Mercedes C 300 (or E350) or the new 2009 Acura RL (although when I drove tested the 08, I thought the ride comfort was way too rough for a "luxury" car and my 58 year old body, plus I am concerned about getting a car thats been re-designed too much in its first generation) -- which brings me to my aging eyes.

    Just how effective are the xenon headlights on the MKZ. Can anyone tell me how worthwhile they are. How they compare to other brands?

    I prefer to buy an American car. I thought the MKZ's ride was very good and you can't beat the price.
    Thanks.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    The HIDs on my Navigator are great.

    But the MKZ is a Mexican car.
  • rablawrablaw Member Posts: 16
    LOL
  • cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    I have an engineer friend in Dearborn who helped design the car who might disagree with calling it a Mexican car. ;)

    But yeah, it is disappointing that the final assembly point is Mexico. I've also heard the hours per vehicle number for that plant is pretty bad. But I guess when you're paying $9 an hour (which includes benefits) you can afford to be a little less productive.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    You want the xenons if you can afford them. Period.

    The RL is more competitive with the MKS. This is not the "first generation" and it was overdue for a refreshing. A totally new one is coming in a year or two. You can get a great deal on an RL...it is much more car than the MKZ.

    The 09 MKZ will be a short run...the 10 should be out in January, with a much better interior, and a bit more differentiation from the Fusion. Have you looked at an Infinity M series? Remember with all of them that ride quality is greatly affected by the wheels/tires you choose.
  • badhugobadhugo Member Posts: 10
    I understand that the forthcoming "911 Assist" feature for Sync equipped Ford vehicles can automatically call for help if the Fuel Cut Off switch is activated in addition to air bag deployment. This could achieve about the same function as the
    OnStar AACN system that uses sensors located around the car to activate an automated call for help even if the air bags do not deploy.

    Based on one rear end accident with very little damage to my Taurus it seems that the fuel cut off device is very sensitive, at least if your rear ended.

    My question is, how sensitive is it to front and side impacts? Any real world experiences out there?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Not sure, but it doesn't really matter because it notifies you verbally before dialing 911 and gives you 10 seconds to cancel the call.
  • badhugobadhugo Member Posts: 10
    Yes it does matter because I want to know if it can reliably call for help if I'm unconcous even if the air bags do not deploy like OnStar AACN.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I thought you were worried about unnecessary calls. I can't imagine you'd be knocked unconscious without the airbags deploying. Don't forget side airbags.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Seems like to me it is based on an 'air bag' event?

    No additional fees associated with this service.

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=27454

    http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ford-sync-expands-adding-911-assist-and-vehicl- e-health-reports.html
  • badhugobadhugo Member Posts: 10
    A friend of mine was rear ended driving a Buick. Broke his neck. None of the air bags deployed.
  • badhugobadhugo Member Posts: 10
    Fuel cut off too. See syncmyride.com - Coming Fall 2008 - 911 Assist - System Limitations.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Barely avoided a huge accident today on DC beltway. Crusing about 65 everyone in front suddenly stopped, i stopped put on flashers saw a ton of traffic coming up fast from behind, car in front of me pull off to the side and revealed a large bike. I could not drive over it, I was stuck had to make a move, no choice off to the left I went, pedal to the medal. The MKZ had the right stuff. I cannot wonder what would have happen if all those cars hit me. Unfortunately I do not know what happen to everyone after me as you cannot just drive over a bike!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That is precisely why Ford has new head restraints. The ones in older cars were a joke as far as safety is concerned.
  • fmirenzifmirenzi Member Posts: 3
    DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO GET THE DEALER TO TO TURN ON MY DRL'S IN MY 07 MKZ I AM TOLD THAT THE SMART BOX CAN BE REPROGRAMED TO TURN THEN ON BUT FORD TECH SAYS I HAVE TO MOVE TO CANNADA AND SHOW INPORT PAPERS HELP !!!!!!!!
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    My '08 doesn't have them ... ( Aug '07 build ). Since the cars are almost identical I would think they could be turned off. I had similar problem with dealer when I requested seat belt nanny be turned off. When pressed they provided a print out that described how to do it.

    Situations lkie this is why I only go to dealer for covered work, :mad:

    Try looking elsewhere on Edmunds I believe there are many discussions regarding DRL's.

    Jerry
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's either an add-on module or just a computer update - try another dealer.

    That said, I don't know why you want them. I hate them and don't think they enhance safety.
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    opps ... thought you wanted to turn them off. I agree with akirby, if you feel the need just turn on parking lights, that way the tail lights go on also ... much safer, with DRL's people neglect to turn on headlights at disk, much better to control the situation yourself!

    Jerry
  • fmirenzifmirenzi Member Posts: 3
    To turn DRL on the tech support needs to know your vin that is where the problem lies no matter what dealer you go to they need to call tech support to have them walk them through doing it I was hopeing someone else has had expearence with this yes i know the tail lights are not on when DRL are on buts ok i just feel that they help
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    As expected - totally new interior that is more conventional looking. The insider description of a "mini-MKS" looks to be spot on. Let's hope the materials and features are also MKS like.

    Sorry - can't link to it. You'll have to copy and paste this into your browser.

    http://images.leftlanenews.com/imageresizeronfly/phpThumb.php?src=/content/augus- - - t2008/lincoln-mkz-inside-1.jpg&w=800
  • cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    While I admit Lincoln probably did need to go modern with there interior design, I will miss the retro MKZ interior. It just needed some better materials and better center console.

    The MKZ interior design always stands out in my mind. If interior images of the MKZ, TL, ES, G35, CTC were to flash by you for a quarter of a second, the MKZ is the only one you'd probably be able to identify with %100 percent certainty.
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I could not find that interior shot but here are some shots of the 2010 MKZ:

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/lincoln-mkz-future.html

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/cars/image_popup/imagegallery3.php?postid=8982&galle- rynum=0&defimage=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.leftlanenews.com%2Fimageresizeronfly%2FphpT- humb.php%3Fsrc%3D%2Fcontent%2Faugust2008%2Flincoln-mkz-inside-2.jpg#

    The shots are not very impressive however.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's the last image in the Sept. 3rd gallery but it doesn't show up in the main page. That's why I gave the link.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    So how soon can we expect a Lincoln MKZ that does not use the Fusion body? This one has the MKS style interior, and a (rather timid) interpretation of the MKR grill. Still looks a lot like a Fusion with a Lincoln style grill. And what's with the tail lights? I thought Lincoln's new design language would include full width ones. Now every Lincoln model appears to go its own way in back...ok there is some resemblance between the Navi and MKZ tail lights.

    Anyway, will we be waiting until the 2013 model year for an all new MKZ? Anyone know?
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I just saw the MKS coming at you down in GA. It was very impressive looking.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    This is really the 2009 model, just a few months late. I think they'll merge the CD3/EUCD platforms into a common global platform in 2-3 years and that's when you'll get unique sheetmetal for the Z.

    With the 2010 upgrades including best in class fuel economy for the Fulans and a hybrid version I think they'll be selling all the CD3s they can build in Hermosillo, so it probably didn't make a good business case for redoing the sheetmetal mid cycle.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Any ideal if they will make a Hybrid MKZ or will you have to purchase the Fusion version?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, but it is strange that given the effort to speed up product cycles, that they couldn't get a mid-cycle, minor refresh out after three model years (assuming a cycle length of six or more years). But as you say, it is "just a few months late." I wonder with Ford on the ropes how many more late starts they can afford, and "wait and see what we'll have in three years."

    I think their projected products look great, but all the companies are scrambling and lots of new metal is coming all the time. A leap ahead somewhere is what they need. Unfortunately, as good as the proposed Euro products might be, others plan to match these things. I hope the Ford products are better than the competition soon, or this heavily leveraged company with a storied history will ultimately be eaten by or crushed by something else.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Last I heard there were no plans for a hybrid MKZ or even a 2.5L version, but considering fuel prices they may be rethinking that - I certainly would. But if that's the case I don't think you'd see it until next fall.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Minor refresh? New 2.5L I4, totally new 2nd generation hybrid, new 6 speed trannys for the I4, new 3.0L and 3.5L V6s, 3 new front and rear clips, 2 mild dash remodels and 1 totally new interior. I think that's a little more than a mild refresh.

    Considering the 2009 model should have debuted this month, the 2010 model is only 4 months late, not ideal but not that bad either. I believe the delays were due to the new powertrains.

    Of course if they'd gotten it right 3 years ago then this would truly be just a mild mid cycle refresh. As it is they did just about everything except change the roof and doors.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    That's how you see it. As I see it, engines are introduced all the time as they are available, and on the other hand, a vehicle may be completely revamped on new architecture and still use the same engine as the previous model. The 2.5 and second gen hybrid stuff is already in the 2009 Escape (so you have the weird situation of the the "new" 2008 Escape actually being much different and inferior to the identical looking 2009).

    To me it is a refresh not only because the cars still look essentially the same as before, but because the 6 speed, 2.5, long in coming hp increase for the 3.0 liter, and making the 3.5 optional are all things Ford already had available, but couldn't figure out how to get them into the vehicles that needed them immediately (what with personnel changes, plant closings, fleet changes and truly poor predictions about what was going to sell in big numbers).

    People still look at the outside of a car first, and then consider all the other details. I do hope this effort works for Ford, but as they found with the 500-Taurus re-do, the Expedition re-do, the Explorer re-do, the MKZ grill change (what a waste of money that was), if the visual impact of the changes do not really stand out, the new model, no matter how good, may not see any sustained sales increase (or slower decline in the case of trucks).

    Really, the 2010 Fulans are just catching up with the hp and mpg and features of the top selling competition. That will have to be enough for now, and maybe with clever marketing, they will go from also-rans to top sellers. Can't see that for the MKZ though, until it can stand on its own like the MKS does.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Actually the Fusion hybrid is different from the 09 Escape hybrid even though they use the same engine. I don't remember the details but I think the 09 escape is a gen 1.5 while the Fusion is the first true gen 2.

    I agree to the casual observer there won't be drastic changes except for one key area - fuel economy. Being able to boast that they (finally) have best in class fuel economy AND a hybrid is a big deal that a lot of people will notice now.

    The biggest question is whether current Fulanz owners will see these upgrades as a reason to trade in their current vehicles and get new ones, because that's where the sustained growth comes from. Everyone up until now (with a few exceptions) are first time buyers. Assuming the first time buyer rate stays the same, you get growth from repeat buyers, then 3-4 years from now you get another group of repeat buyers. That's how Accord and Camry got to 400k - I'd bet at least half of their sales are repeat buyers just looking for the new model. And I think the 2010 models have more than enough new features to do that AND to perhaps even take some market share back from the Camcordimas.

    I understand your point about powertrains but I also think you underestimate the amount of resources necessary to put even an existing powertrain into a new vehicle - testing, tuning, crash certification, EPA testing, etc. If you add up the total amount of work required for the 2010 triplets and you consider Ford's thinly spread resources I think it's a very respectable job.

    After all they could have just phoned in a lot of the changes but they didn't. They even changed the gauge clusters on the Fulans.

    I'd agree that it's a refresh, I just don't think it's fair to call it mild given the number of changes.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I will be leaning towards a 2010 Fusion Hybrid unless I get blown away by the 2010 MKZ. I have a 2007 MKZ Red with Black and Satin interior with all the gadgets. Have been happy with everything except MPG.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    OK, I concede to your points. And the repeat buyer thing would be a terrific outcome.
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