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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think repeat buyers is THE key to sustained growth and increased market share.

    Think about all those Taurus buyers in the last 10 years who decided they were tired of their Taurus and wanted something new. Gee - the new one looks just like the one I had and has the same features - why would I buy that? I think I'll go buy an Accord or Camry instead, just to get something new.

    That's why the 3 year cycle is so important - it gives the folks who lease or buy new every 3-4 years something different.

    There are a few hundred thousand 2006/2007 FulanZ owners who would probably love to trade for a new one with better FE and Sync.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    New Buick LaCross/Invicta coming out in the mid 2009 and it may blow away MKZ. It has sexy design inside and out, brand new platform not shared (yet) by other brands. To tell the truth - even Malibu looks more luxirious than MKZ.
  • dds010dds010 Member Posts: 33
    Lincoln needs to equip the 2010 MKZ with a 3.7 that produces 300-315 hp in order to be competitve with other cars in its segment. This along with a hybrid option in the future should give it even more first time, conquest and reapeat buyers
  • cdombcdomb Member Posts: 1
    So what do you guys think, Lincoln MKZ ot Acura TL. I need an answer today!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That depends. 2009 MKZ vs. 2008 TL - close call. Slight edge to MkZ in infotainment (navigation, sync, etc.) but TL gets the nod in styling.

    2009 MKZ vs. 2009 TL - TL loses the styling edge.

    2010 MkZ vs. 2009 TL - no contest. The 2010 MkZ is greatly improved all the way around (but especially the interior) while the 09 TL is downright ugly (to me). MKZ still wins for infotainment. Not sure if it gets any new amenities though.

    So I'd say 2010 MKZ followed by 2008 TL followed by 2009 MKZ with the 2009 TL off the list.
  • The 09 TL is polarizing alright...it will not blend in like the MKZ will. I happen to like the new styling, as it is bold and it looks way better in person than in pictures. The TL will have better resale, but will cost more to buy initially.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Lincoln MKZ hands down.
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    Anyone have an idea of what to expect on the 2010? I own an 06 Zephyr and much prefer it's ride quality to that of the MKZ. I test drove the 07 MKZ with the idea of taking advantage of the "new" engine but, was turned off by the ride. Too stiff for me. A while back I was a passenger in a friend's 08 Lexus ES and was very impressed. Very quiet and more richly appointed than the Zeph/MKZ and had a better and more supple ride than my Zeph (which is better than the MKZ). It just felt more upscale as we motored along.
    I think for the MKZ to be truly perceived as upscale, it has to have the ride of a so called luxury car. It's pretty quiet but, I think it falls short in that luxury ride feel. A retuned suspension and taller tires would do wonders. I note the comparable Lexus, Cadillac and Infiniti all come with series 55 tires so, why does the MKZ come with 50s? Best option would be to offer the MKZ with a ride compliant ride and a sport/handling option like Cadillac does with the CTS. This won't happen, though, since Ford seems to be stuck in that "one size fits all" mentality.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's always a tradeoff - some want better handling and some want a softer ride. I agree they should offer both options - or at least an option for different wheel and tire sizes. That makes a big difference on the MKS. I'd bet that the 2010 model has options but not sure how much difference there will be.
  • dds010dds010 Member Posts: 33
    According to the order guide the 2010 lincoln MKZ will have blind spot monitor, a backup camera, selectshift transmission, adaptive headlamps, a split wing grill as well as a interior more in tune with the MKS. Their will also be a optional sport model that has taunter suspension settings. The engine option just says V6 so its not known if it the 3.7 or not.
    http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=8002
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    Good to hear about the suspension. Always better to have a choice than not to have a choice. However, if the current MKZ suspension becomes the standard suspension with an option for an even stiffer one, I'll be looking elswhere for my 2010. After riding in my friend's ES, I won't accept a ride that doesn't measure up. If I want a taut suspension, low profile tires and "sporty" handling, I'll get a Maxima. That's not what I want from a Lincoln. Soften the suspension and add taller tires for the standard luxury car ride and offer the other suspension for the few that want their Lincoln to ride like a Mustang.
    And please, can that gas tank capacity be increased? When your weekly work commute is almost 500 miles, a 17 1/2 gallon tank just doesn't cut it.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    Based on the order guide, it appears that the base suspension tuning has not changed. The last page of the guide indicates the 3.5 engine with the same power output as the current model. Acoustic glass in the windshield and a cabin filter are also new. The 17.5 gallon fuel tank remains according to the specs in the order guide.
  • carjimcarjim Member Posts: 155
    Though I require rwd for my driving enjoyment, my wife would be more than happy with the MKZ. I base that on how much she enjoyed driving our son's Mazda3.

    The absence of a manual shift mode is a deal breaker. To be unable to manually shift an automatic would send my wife and I straight to the Mazdas, which provide it. We are looking forward to the MKZ, and hope there is nothing timid about the handling or styling.
  • cowbellcowbell Member Posts: 125
    I saw this article on Jalopnik.com

    Super MKZ

    It's a Zephyr body, with a lot of body work, and a hood scoop. It also has manufacturers plate.

    No one seems to know anything about it, but I'm hoping Hot Rod Lincoln.
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    First, I'm a bit surprised that there has been no discussion here of the newly revealed 2010 MKZ at the LA Auto Show last week. It looks much better than the current model IMO, a sporty more aggressive look. The interior is also a whole lot better.

    I'm very much interested in buying one when they are available next March. However it appears that prices have not yet been released to the public although dealers have the order guides. If someone in the "know" could let us know the starting MSRP for this car I would much appreciate it. With the improvements I've read about I'm not sure I could afford the new model. In that case I might buy a 2009 model now instead of waiting.

    Thanks very much. :)
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    You are right, quite impressive. Details on the 2010 MKZ here:

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/11/22/255167.html
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    Thanks BigT,

    I've read through these details before but there is no mention of the MSRP for the 2010 model. The 2008 MKZ FWD is $30,980 + delivery, and the 2009 MKZ FWD is $32,695 + delivery, but I am looking for the starting MSRP for the 2010 model. If it's much higher than the 2009, I'll settle for the 2009.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Be sure to check the options. The 2010 may come with more standard features that would cost extra on the 09 model.
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    Hello A Kirby,

    I've often read your posts and know that you are very knowledgable about Ford products. As for options on the MKZ, the car already comes so loaded with standard features that I see no need to add anything extra. Of course some may choose to add a moonroof or a mavigation system but I have no need of those.

    I had been considering the more affordable Fusion or Milan but I feel that I could manage to buy the base model of the MKZ. I'd love to move up to this entry level luxury car. So if you have any info on the base price for the 2010 model please share it with me (and others who read this). Thank you.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If you're planning to buy the base model regardless of the standard features then it won't matter. But it still wouldn't hurt to at least recognize any differences in standard features so you know what you're getting for the money.
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    Yes of course I will do that. I note for example that the 2008 model did not have ESC available but it was added to the 2009 car. Indeed the 2009 model would suit my needs and I may buy one. However I do like the improved styling of the 2010 model and will wait for it - provided that the price is not increased substantially.

    Sooner or later the MSRP will be announced to the public but I was hoping to get it now. Then I will be able to determine whether or not I want to wait for the 2010. If it goes up by more than $2000 for instance, I'll get the 2009 instead. I'm an older retired guy and I need to be careful with my money.
  • In this economic climate, Ford would be crazy to raise the base price by $2K on a car that is not selling well at all.
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    Thanks for your input Gregg.

    You're probably right, and so I will wait for the 2010 model next spring. I can hardly wait to see the car in person and test drive it.
  • carjimcarjim Member Posts: 155
    A major shortcoming for me may be corrected on the 2010, and that is the transmission will allow me to shift manually through the gears. Is that what "SelectShift" means?

    Our family at present has the Infiniti EX and the Mazda3, both with automatics that allow shifting.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, that's it. Lincoln debuted Selectshift in 1999 on the Lincoln LS but it disappeared with the LS in 2006 until now, along with a lot of other features like rain sensing wipers. They only gave up a 9 year head start.
  • The 2010 is quieter inside and has a smoother ride than the 2009 as well. Plus it is quicker. The interior uses higher quality materials. To my eye (subjective as heck of course) the 10 looks less like the Fusion than the 09 does. Probably worth the wait. It will be out in spring, long before car sales really pick up again. Look for it to have incentives. However, any leftover 09s will have deeper price cuts.

    Have you considered the Milan Hybrid? The 2010 Milan is also much quieter than the 09, with upgraded materials, and lots of nice gadgets that are not available on the 09.
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    Hi Gregg,

    Yes I've read about the improvements to the 2010 MKZ and the styling is similar to its big brother, the MKS. I don't do enough driving to justify the additional expense of the Milan Hybrid which is particularly useful in stop and go big city traffic. I've had Mercury cars before, the Grand Marquis, but I no longer need a full size car. This will be my first Lincoln and I'm looking forward to the luxury of it.
  • I see. But do remember that the hybrid will be cheaper than the MKZ, and there may be a tax incentive as well.
  • carjimcarjim Member Posts: 155
    Can one of you tell us what makes up the optional sport suspension on the 2010?

    Of course, getting the dealers to include them may be a problem. Some of you will remember dealers refused to carry even one LS with a stick.
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    Quoting from the press release of Nov. 19:

    "New for 2010, the MKZ features a new sport version with special sport suspension tuning with stiffer springs and larger stabilizer bars, 18-inch Euroflange polished wheels, unique grille, darkened headlamps, a decklid MKZ badge with a red "Z" and an interior with contrasting piping and unique appliqués."

    It will be a more expensive version of the car and no doubt dealers will carry it.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Wow, I just purchased a 2007 and it is a unbelievable vehicle.
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    Pictures and tech info on the 2010 MKZ are all over the internet now. Mechanically, it's pretty impressive. As far as looks go, the only exterior changes are the grill and tail lights. The interior appears to be an upgrade. Thought I would mention some little tweaks I think would make the Z a real winner.
    I think there is just a little too much black in the interior. I realize the version pictured is the black leather but, the Z is patterned after the MKS and even with the ivory interior in the S, there is still a lot of black plastic. I would like a little more wood and a wood shift knob. I prefer the "old" steering wheel with the two wood side pieces. I like the idea of borrowing some things from the S but, it seems as though Ford is trying to make the Z a cheaper S. This could backfire - why would someone then want to spend the extra money for the S?
    I don't like the contrasting piping on the seats. Looks kind of tacky. I don't think you would see Lexus, Cadillac or Infiniti do this. Go back to the old power mirror controls. It looks kind of cheap with that knob up by the window. Will there finally be console vents to feed cooled/heated air to the rear compartment? You have to have this in a luxury car! Also, why the standard satellite radio for 6 months. If they are going to make it standard, make it meaningful - like free for 2 yrs. I don't think free sat. radio for 6 months with a savings of $75 is going to point people to a Z. A lot of people, like myself, are not interested in sat. radio and then when the free ride is over, you're left with that stupid antenna on the roof of the car.
    And my pet peeves - taller tires and a bigger gas tank.
    Just my obsevations.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Very interested in one. How do you pre-order a vehicle?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You go to the dealer and negotiate it. They may or may not require a deposit and they may or may not have pricing, but you can certainly get in line now. But understand that you can only get a Fusion or Milan hybrid, not a MKZ hybrid.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Well I wonder if that makes sense or just wait until they are on the lot. I would hate to miss discounts etc. I doubt the current price of gas will stay where it is for long. I would like an MKZ hybrid but will settle for the Milian hybrid.
  • Most of your points are well-taken. However, why would anyone buy a BMW 5 series (or MB E Class) when the 3 series (or C Class) is available? Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, etc. all try to make their variously sized cars resemble one another, rather than the disparate soup of unrelated-looking offerings Lincoln has had for the past decade. The intent is to get back some family resemblance and brand recognition for Lincoln. As it is, it is a work in progress, and the MKZ still looks a lot more like the Fusion than it looks like the MKS. But it is a step in the right direction.

    As for the contrasting seat piping, I thoroughly disagree with you. Bentley uses it. Rolls uses it. Jaguar uses it on its more expensve models. It's a sharp look that generally adds class to a leather interior.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They may be hard to find in stock - most will probably be presold. So it really just depends on how long you want to wait and what you're willing to pay. If you're sure of what you want and you're ok paying MSRP you can probably order one now. If you wait you might get lucky and find one in stock but if not you'll have to wait that much longer.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    But is it safe to be one of the first to purchase a new model? I assume that auto companies put a model out and react (fix) issues brought to them by the public? Or do they fix everything in the next model year?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I bought a 2000 Lincoln LS in the first few months and while I had several annoying problems, none were serious. I bought my Fusion in 2005 again after just a few months on the market and I haven't had a single problem in 3 years.

    The hybrid system is an upgraded version that's been offered in the Escape for years and the same version that's been in the 09 Escape for several months. The rest of the vehicle is basically the same as the 08 model.

    There is a chance you'll find a new problem, but it will probably be minor and be fixed quickly. Major problems are rare.
  • Yes, it is safe. I've owned 28 vehicles and first models are nothing I shy away from. Car companies no longer "work out the bugs" on hapless consumers. I know cars often used to be that way, but I haven't had a bad experience with a first model since the 1970s, with the exception of a 1991 GM product that was awful.
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    I bought my 06 Zephyr new in February 2006. In terms of durability and reliability, it's simply the best car I've ever owned. I now have 65K miles on it and it has NEVER been in the shop for repair or warranty issues. Only the basic maintenance has been needed.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Yes, I agree, purchased the 06 Zephyr new, sold it to a friend and purchased an 07 MKZ. She has 50k on her car and I have 25k on my car. The only issue was the Radio had to be replaced in the 06 Zephyr.

    I was a little concerned on the Hybrid with all that new technology. I also cannot grasp what is going to be really different between the Fusion and Milan hybrid besides the console screens. Not sure if the extra 5k for the Milan would be worth it. Now 35+ mpg does sound good!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Where do you see that the Milan is 5K more? If it is then it's probably just a difference in the base trim levels and equipment. Similarly equipped Fusions and Milans should not be more than a few hundred dollars different. Unless something drastically changed.
  • I cannot imagine that similarly equipped Fusion and Milan hybrids will not sell for essentially the same amount in the real world.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Beat you by 2 seconds.....
  • Yes, well, you are probably younger than me too...

    Did you see that autoblog got 43+ mpg in a Fusion Hybrid? I am really considering a Milan Hybrid purchase for fall. See what the economy does first...
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Did not see that but it's great news. It's nice to see Ford ahead of the technology curve for a change.
  • It's too bad Ford doesn't have the resources right now to make an MKZ hybrid, by either adding some hp to the Fusion 4 cylinder setup or hybridizing the 3 liter. The only way Lincoln is really going to come back is by providing vehicles that really stand out from the crowd some way. The MKS and MKZ are decent efforts, but so are most of the competitive models out there. For example, the CTS really stands out for Cadillac (in a way the more conservative STS does not), and/or the BMW 3 series does so much so well that it stays on the top of most recommended lists. The next MKZ (after the 2010 re-do) ought to stand out the way the Euro Fords do when compared to the competition (Fiesta and Ka and Focus and Kuga and Mondeo). Caution gets you competent cars like the Taurus/Sable (and MKZ) that do not sell.

    On a side note, why is the Impala, one of the top ten sellers now, selling so many times the number of cars as Taurus? The Impala is plain looking, nondescript, though it does offer three engine choices. Some of the difference has to be marketing. Or maybe the Taurus is even way more dowdy than most of us already think! ;)

    I could see myself in a Milan ( a fancified Ford), but not an MKZ. The MKZ needs more attributes from the MKR concept and much less of the shape of the Fusion. Then it will stand out...and sell.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think a lot of Malibu sales are still fleet. This article says for the 1st quarter of this year Fusion sold 40K retail units and Malibu only 37K. Given the last few months it wouldn't surprise me if Malibu's retail sales were way down and fleet sales back up. Ford appears to have gotten off that wagon and is content to cut back production to meet demand. Finally.....

    http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/04/chevrolet-malibu-ford-fusion-pontiac-g6-gain- -traction-in-crucial-c-segment.html
  • I was speaking of the Impala which compares to the Taurus. Regardless of how the sales are gotten, the Impala trounces not just the Taurus, but almost every other car out there, save a few Honda and Toyota models.
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