Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

13468960

Comments

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Conquest sales from which companies? None that I can think of. The exterior is attractive, IMO, but the interior... BLEH. So upright and uptite. Weird color combos.

     

    ~alpha
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok, the interior is a little bland, agreed. It could use a Navigator touch up, I agree. The Aviator engine would be a nice option at least, if not a standard engine. But I was talking about the handling. Believe me, I think they're great cruisers. And they're as solid and reliable as a car can get, they own the Livery business and stretch Limo business. They even sell an armored model now. Personally, I think it's the best rental car on the planet.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    We went to the LA Auto Show yesterday I really liked the Zephyr. The interior is excellent - the quality of the materials and design and the real wood and metal and chrome really stand out. The interior looked classier than in some radically more expensive cars, such as the Lexus LS430.

     

    It would not take me two seconds to choose a Zephyr over a Lexus ES330 or an Acura TL.

     

    The car would would look strange with the narrow tail lights of the concept car. The lights look better when you are looking at a car, rather than a photo of a car.

     

    Alas, I need the trunk space of a Five Hundred / Montego, as the Zephyr is too narrow.

     

    ANT14 - any chance of a Lincoln version of the Five Hundred / Montego soon? I sat in the Montego at the show several times, and with the seat all of the way back and the back of the bottom cushion tilted down a bit, the footwell space was OK, but my arms had to be straight out to reach the steering wheel. If they make a Lincoln version, it needs the Zephyr interior and a tilt and telescope wheel.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    While many would have preferred the concepts slim tail lights, reality is it would have looked dinky using such small units. It would have left a huge upper and lower trunk sheetmetal to compensate. The production unit will look better lighted, because of the LEDs.

     

    The Lincoln version is still a bit away, more information will become available in next years show. So far it's still being planned out.

     

    Some dislikes people have had over the 500 might be rectified ahead of time.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Now that I've seen additional photos of the Zephyr at the Detroit show, it does look better to me. The interior also looks very classy. The main problem is the chunky taillights.

     

    The initial PR photos released by Ford of the car have to be some of the most unflattering photos of a new vehicle that I have ever seen.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Facinating review...... Can't wait to see one myself now.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    slim tailights "would have looked dinky", (a subjective eye of the beholder statement) having seen the concept in person there is no doubt in this viewers mind that there was nothing dinky about it, proportionately the tailights were made for that car and are night and day to the production model, although I must admit I have not seen the production model in person.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    I have to take exception on the term DINKY.

     

    The concept is suppose to show the ultimate design & style. Thus, the tail lights were the most stylish the designer could come up with. The larger tail lights are a compromise due to other factors.

     

    Just because people do not like the production version does not mean the concept was not good.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    In the following link, beneath the photo (of what we now know to be the production model), are the words, "Vehicle appearance may change - available fall 2005".. Could it be that they are not through with this car as it appears or more probable its just my wishful thinking to restore more of the exterior concept features! You might also enjoy the latest Zephyr video found at the gallery link!

     

    http://www.lincoln.com/vehicles/newvehiclepreview/zephyr/default.- - - asp
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    You know when you buy a house in a new community, and you pick the floorplan for it and such, you have a little disclaimer in the bottom stating, "Builder reserves rights to alter, change, modify the floorplan shown here"....

     

    Ok, it's a disclaimer.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    And then, there are the E.C.'s that come along later, after production starts.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    Sounds like you might be an architect or something like that!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    How about something like an automotive engineer, buckwheat?
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Or maybe something like a reverse mole, an insider giving us the goods.

     

    ANT ANT, he's our man, if he can't tell us, no one can!!! Yay ANT!!! (or she)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    quite a few years for the LS to reach this level of indifference on Edmunds, and it certainly didn't happen when the car was still newly-introduced.

    I guess it's progress of a sort. If something's a dog, maybe it's better to shoot it sooner rather than later.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    2006 Initial Order Acceptance 04/11/05
    2006 Production Start Up 08/01/05
  • fergusonferguson Member Posts: 2
    Ant14,
    I've been following the current thread of this forum for some time now and it would appear as though you are the dispenser of hope for us Lincoln lovers! I was first introduced to the Lincoln Zephyr by chance when I was browsing the web for info about new and future mid-size luxury sports sedans. I was totally blown away by the style and interior design of the concept car I saw! I was almost convinced from that moment on that this would be my next car!
    However, as so many who have responded to this topic have shared, I became somewhat disappointed at the photos of the "production" vehicle. I'm more of an "interior" guy, so at first the rather dramatic changes in front and rear didn't bother me. What really upset me was the changes they made to that gorgeous interior! I absolutely loved the light maple wood treatment and the creative flare of the shifter. In the production. the wood treatment was minimized (cut off from below the radio) and the shifter was changed to look not much different that my old ford Taurus SEL. Furthermore, I loved the raised, ribbed aluminum waterfall effect in the center stack and found myself bubbling with excitement over the added touch of all-chrome switches and control stalks! If I'm being honest, these changes bothered me most of all. I do realize I'm going on a bit! :)
    Anyway...I submitted an interest solicitation on Lincoln's official website and several weeks ago received a nice gift in the mail. It was an attractive bag of premium coffee and included some registration form that led me to believe that I would have an opportunity to share in pre-marketing research. However, April is fast marching to completion and I haven't received any further info. Regardless, I do hope that the feedback from Lincoln loyalists - like the ones in this forum - will be listened to on some level. If the production and been closer to the concept I saw, there would have been no doubt in my mind come purchase time at the end of this year, but now...I'm afraid I'll have to proceed with some reservation. :(
    It still seems like an excellent car - from everything I've read on fordmedia's website and detailed information on www.autospectator.com. I really like the sound system, lighting effects, seat treatment, quiet-tuning efforts, and the integrated key fob! I'm holding out hope. Have any to offer! :)
  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    I think the name is silly, and I usually don't like Fords, but this one's growing on me. It looks classier than the Mazda 6, Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan. I can only hope that they shove a larger V-6 in there, the 3.0 is a sad old powerplant. And I wouldn't want a car this pretty to be underpowered... :(
  • fergusonferguson Member Posts: 2
    I hadn't thought about the practicality of all-chrome fittings. That does make sense! Sometimes logistics and ergonomics take a back seat to aesthetics, and this may not be a good thing. :) I'm sure there are those components to interior (as well as exterior) design that contribute to the overall graceful character of a car which, for the large part, remain unseen! But I'm still a huge fan of the wood treatment and shifter :shades: Maybe Lincoln could offer this treatment as part of an upgrade option package or, at the very least, as dealer installed accessories!

    I am certainly looking forward to test-driving one this fall and seeing how it drives and handles, how quiet it is, and how my CD collection sounds in the new THX II sound system!

    Here's a question for anyone who might have an idea. What is the interior sound level in decibels. I'm curious because, in Ford's official press release, they share (with no scarcity of detail) the many different technological advances employed in the Zephyr to ensure optimum quietness (e.g., thicker side window glass, specially designed side mirrors, engine compartment shield, extra padding in select areas, various tuning and suspension upgrades, etc.) They also mentioned that the selection of the tires alone achieved a noise level reduction of 6 dbs. That's pretty impressive, depending on what the base level was. In my last issue of Car and Driver, they were comparing many expensive cars - all retailing over $50,000 and the average interior db level was 66. Personally, I like to be isolated from the outside, so the quiter the better!
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I'm all for quiet, I had to pump quite a bit of insulation into my LS (and now working on a Mustang) to quiet them. On the Lincoln LS thread I go into detail over it exactly.

    Overall your looking at a pretty quiet cabin, yet nothing on numbers has been publically stated. But your looking at F-150 Lariat, quiet, if not maybe a touch more. Maybe a subdued rumble from the muffler when working the engine hard.

    There's a fine science to it though... you don't wish to isolate too much, because you might have the perception the car is slow since it doesn't involve the driver much. But too much racket, can be annoying at certain RPM's.
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    I've been looking to replace my 1998 Mercury Mystique for some time, and like many on this board, was captivated by the Zephyr concept. Also like many, I'm not as captivated by the production look, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. My primary concern is with the powerplant. :( I bought the Mystique in '98 because, at the time, its 170 hp was about is good as it got in the non-lux sedan market. I'm a hp guy, and now that I'm ready to move upscale, I want more power (and RWD, but that's not a switch the Zephyr will be making, I'm sure). ANT14, if you know (and are at liberty to say), is Lincoln considering a higher-output motor for this car? If so, when would it be available? Depending on the price Lincoln charges for this car, it would be hard for me to pass up an Acura TL with 270 hp for the Zephyr. Given the stout, low-price competition (i.e., TL, G35), the Zephyr could be a hard sell in what is already a crowded market unless Lincoln brings it in at about 30k fully-loaded (including the fancy stereo). The TL comes with everything but the kitchen sink for not much more and has more horsepower and the Acura nameplate to boot (think resale).
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    I think you've put your finger on why it's been two weeks since there was a post on this board & why there have been only 8 over the past 2.5 months.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    It's kind of sad, actually, that "American" manufacturers are having so much trouble making good cars at competitive prices. Until this year, I've never owned anything but an "American" car (Ford or Chrysler products). But, when I looked at mini-vans this year, I had to go with the Honda Odyssey because it clearly was the best vehicle for the money. I sympathize with GM's and Ford's (to a lesser extent) legacy costs, but despite that sympathy, I simply can't justify putting Union workers' kids through college at the expense of my own. I guess this rant might be a little off topic, but it still comes back to the Zephyr: I will buy it if Lincoln can make it competitive with the Japanese manufacturers' cars, but I've lost confidence that American makers can still do that and meet their legacy costs.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes, the Duratec35 will see duty in the vehicle later after introduction, as well as AWD.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    Are there any guesses as to its horsepower and torque numbers? If they aren't above 250, then I doubt if many will bite.
  • martin3martin3 Member Posts: 17
    I hope that the horsepower for the car will be close or better than 2005 Toyota Avalon or Lexus ES. If not the price better be much lower if made in Mexico! I agree with Chris65amg that the old 3.0 liter V6 is a sad outdated power plant.">
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    Thanks ANT14! That is good news. 250+ hp (with VVT) and AWD would be enough for me (and I think enough to make the car generally competitive). I'll wait for that car. Is the hold-up on availability of the 3.5 due to supply constraints (because the 500 needs it first)?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Personally, I think no Lincoln should have less than a V8 engine. I'm wondering why though, the 3.0 is panned as being so outdated? IMO, it's too small for the application, but lt's thoroughly up to date, and a hellovalot more advanced than 90 percent of GMs engines are.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    GM's 2.8 (really the only similarly sized powerplant to the 3.0L from Ford) is a better engine, IMO.

    ~alpha
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok, I'll play - in what way is GM's 2.8 better, or more technologically advanced?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Well, for starters, it uses variable valve timing, which is more advanced than the non-variable valve timing used in the Five Hundred for example. So, while smaller in displacement than that engine, it produces 7 greater horsepower at peak. Yes, peak power of the 2.8L is high on the RPM range, at 6500, but indicates that this engine wont get winded. And its not lacking for torque either, with the peak of 195lb ft occuring at a low 3300 RPM. The Duratec is able to trump that by a dozen, but needs an additional 1200 RPM to get there.

    I have not driven the 2.8L CTS. But I have driven several Duratec motors and they arent bad engines at all... but they never seemed eager, and sound and feel less refined that similarly sized engines from Toyota and Honda, for example.

    ~alpha
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    The 2.8L in the CTS is derived from the same 60 degree V6 block that has been around since 1980, so it is actually older than the 3.0L Duratech. The addition of VVT to the 2.8L is recent, and Lincoln is supposed to get VVT for the Zephyr. The age of the 3.0L Duratech is not really the problem -- the problem is horsepower and perhaps more acutely, torque, given the target market. You can increase the 3.0L's horsepower (and perhaps to a lesser extent, torque) in various ways, but it is typically more user-friendly to increase displacement, which is why giving the Zephyr a 3.5L option is very appealing to me.

    Here is a link with the history of GM's 2.8L 60-degree V6: http://60degreev6.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&arti- d=17&page=1
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Please note that I never said the CTS's 2.8L was a newer engine than the Duratec.

    ~alpha
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    for the mutual civility demonstrated here. All valid points made.
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    I'm glad Alpha01 corrected me -- I wasn't trying to start a flame war and after rereading Alpha's post, I see that my post wasn't really responsive. Ultimately, my point was that a block is a block is a block. At least to some extent. Obviously some things can't be changed without changing the whole block -- it's either a 60 degree block or it's not. But, you can upgrade an older block design in many ways, as GM has done with the 2.8 by adding, among other things, VVT. That said, Alpha01 is right that the CTS version of the 2.8 does have more advanced features than the 3.0 in the 500. I don't think that is surprising given that the CTS is a Cadillac and the 500 is a Ford. I expect Lincoln will upgrade the 3.0 for use in the Zephyr.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    There is no doubt, the Zephyr needs that new 3.5L engine too, frankly, IMO, it needs a V-8. Me personal opinion, no Cadillac or Lincoln should have a 6 in it, they should be performance machines, but that's just me..... What do I know...
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    I've been looking at this car a lot lately, and while it's not the concept, it's still a good looking car. I like it better than the G35, the A4, the CTS, and the 3's, and I like it just as much as the TL. All concept cars get watered down. Those flared fenders on the concept -- how would you like them when you scrape 'em on a parking garage wall or even a high curb? Bottom line: this car is attractive enough. Give it the 3.5 with AWD and price it no higher than a TL and I'll take it home.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    I think post 276 by [ferguson] is informative and I believe he wanted to share a link in that post that contains significant information on the production model :

    http://www.autospectator.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=66&page=0
  • theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    Well this should livin up the board just a little bit.
    I think the Lincoln Zephyr is a sharp looking sedan and it should do well for Lincoln. The Zephyr isn't hardly perfect, I dunno why in the world Lincoln has this love affair with Auto trannies but if they made a manual 5 or 6 speed available with the Zephyr it would make it a pretty sporty package. That's one of the biggest complaints that I hear about the Ford Fusion. Ford doesn't offer a manual on V6 only a 6-speed auto. However, I feel It's going to struggle for a little bit but once they (Ford) drop in the 3.5 V6 and make it AWD it should do better. Also, I think that people should hold off on judgment on the appearance of this car. It looks allot better in person than it does on the pics that you see floating around the internet. especially when it's in black. :shades:

    Also, if they drop in the AWD 3.5 V6 does anybody know if it's going to have a Manual tranny ?

    Well anyway, here's the question for now. which one would you take a 2006 Lincoln Zephyr or a 2006 Aruca TSX ??

    Zephyr in Black Pic #1

    Zephyr in Black Pic #2

    Zephyr in Black Pic #3

    Zephyr Interior
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    The Lincoln dealer cabal would sooner be shot than have to deal with a car with a manual transmission.

    They'll point to the short-lived LS manual experiment, during which a tiny fraction (<2%) were delivered as manuals. Of course, the dealers wouldn't stock them for test drives, and many actively discouraged those who wanted to special order one (virtually the only way to get one).

    The low number of manuals was a self-fulfilling prophecy for Lincoln, and it sounds like a similar, though not quite so dramatic, situation exists in CTS-land.

    The North American public (that no one ever went broke underestimating) does not embrace expensive cars with manual transmissions.

    Which leaves me in a bit of a bind, given that I don't care for the Teutonic reliability situation. So far (80K miles) the LS is holding up okay though, so it's not an immediate need.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    About 40 photos related to the production model: http://tinyurl.com/7sofq

    Compare it to the concept: http://tinyurl.com/b72c4

    Steve, you're right , and I don't think any thought has been given to it, chances of a standard in the Zephyr will be quite slim.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I saw it at the auto show and it looks much better in person, although I think I like the Fusion and Milan a little better.

    If you view it as an entry level luxury car to compete with the Lexus ES330 I think it's quite competent. People buying these types of cars don't care about hp or manuals.

    Ford seems to be playing it safe lately with new Lincolns. Neither the Zephyr or the Mark LT pickup truck offer much above and beyond their Ford and/or Mercury counterparts other than styling. My guess is they'll wait and see if it sells reasonably well and then add the differentiating features (more power, better suspensions, more gadgets) in year 2 or 3. Probably smart from a business standpoint but frustrating for customers who want one now.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    Allen,

    You choose to call it "playing it safe," but I'm inclined to think it has more to do with what they can do for $1.85 or less.

    Otherwise known as playing it cheap.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    Allen, I saw the concept in person at the NY auto show a couple of years back but have not seen the production model in person, when you say you say "I saw it at the auto show" are you referring to the production model? I still see what appears to be distinquishing differences aside of the obvious.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    Steve, while the "LS" is not in this class I sure hope Lincoln learned from the presentation of that car with it's multiple foibles most all of which appear to have been resolved so that the Zephyr hopefully will not endure a repeat. Mechanically/electronically it will be mostly the same as Milan/Fusion so whatever affects one will undoubtedly affect all, playing it cheap when it comes to three models is certainly not good for Ford's longevity.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I did mean playing it safe from a financial investment standpoint. If they put a lot of R&D into a new model like the Mark LT or the Zephyr and it doesn't sell, then they've wasted it. OTOH if they can test the market first and get enough sales then that will justify the additional R&D to add features. That's exactly what they did with the Navigator when it first came out.

    I'm sure some of that logic was borne out of a very small budget to start with, however. So cheap probably applies as well.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    I saw my first Mark LT in the parking lot outside of a store today. I walked up to it and looked at it, and I was strangely unimpressed. It looked just like an F-150!!!! It didn't even have a good luxury aura. I was disappointed. :(

    If Ford can make this more than a Fusion re-skin, it will sell. If not, it won't.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, the production model was at this year's auto shows. I saw it in Atlanta in April. It was not available to sit in - it was on a podium as was the Fusion and Milan.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I was hoping for a nicer interior (not that the F150 isn't already nice) and a few added features, but it appears that it's just a reskinned F150 with a nice grille and wheels. Not that it's bad, mind you, but that's quite a premium ($4K IIRC) for the styling and slightly better warranty.
  • mitchfloridamitchflorida Member Posts: 420
    Apparently the Lincoln Zephyr will be manufactured in Hermosillo, Mexico while the Acura TL will be made in Marysville, Pennsylvania.

    I want to buy "American" , so which car should I get??
Sign In or Register to comment.