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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • Now it's on sale in January? Call it a 2014, and skip 2013. The sales numbers for the model year will look better, and resale will remain higher on a 2014 compared to a 2013.
  • carchatter1carchatter1 Member Posts: 6
    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121121/carreviews/121129978

    Seriously, Erin Riches sounds completely biased in every single thing she writes. She needs a new job as a spokesperson for Toyota or BMW.
  • manster12manster12 Member Posts: 1
    edited December 2012
    I agree completely. I read the review by what is supposed to be an unbiased editor, and it read more like a hatchet job.

    So, the tires were changed on the MKZ........ SO?!??! What you do if you ARE in a position of authority for your magazine IS you contact Lincoln and tell them "this won't do.....send us another vehicle that is more representative of what would be available for the CONSUMER. Or, you wait and get a showroom fresh one! VERY Logical....... and I would think that if you are a senior editor that the powers that be at Lincoln would be obliging.

    If Lincoln then refuses, then they will appear to look bad of their own accord. Instead you get this inflammatory review from the senior editor at Edmunds that makes it seem more like (she) the senior editor was having a BAD day or a personal axe to grind. In either case, the review makes Lincoln look iffy, and the senior editor like a first class whiner incapable of writing an article in an un-biased manner. (And TIRES!?? Surely there were better ways to diffuse this situation.....still lacking in professionalism on both sides...)

    As for me, I'll shop around and will check out Lincoln's offering as I definitely would not hold this Lincoln MKZ article written by this "senior" editor" up as a credible source of information in making my decision on my purchase.......
  • Sounds like you are having a bad day as well. ;) The back attack makes me wonder why someone who doesn't like the car, and writes the why of that, elicits so much criticism from you. Of course no one article should be definitive in making a purchase decision.

    I look at the reviews overall. I was hoping the car would be more remarkable than it is, but it is a start. Reviews are mixed, not uniformly bad. Thus, the car is good enough to compete. Reviews are mixed as well on the new ES350...that won't kill it.

    Mainly, the MKZ no longer has forgettable styling, and its equipment and engines are competitive. It is just not great enough to turn Lincoln's reputation around right now.
  • carchatter1carchatter1 Member Posts: 6
    Maybe someone else more mature should have been handed the assignment of writing this review. For example, if the car can be had with a sport package, I think it's fair that they give a car with a sport package to review, what's wrong with that? So what if it's available in 1 month instead of now. It's astonishing that it beats an M5, and it's whined about it instead of praising it. And how can it be said most buyers won't purchase the sport package? I'm sure a fair amount of them will (not .0001% as this article implies).

    As for all the complaints about the interior and everything else, they all sound like personal preference issues. Other reviews I've read have said the exact opposite of this one about all these topics, including how it stacks up to the competition. Compare this review to the Lexus ES review Erin wrote, where she completely glosses over many issues and didn't whine about anything, and it sounds like she's got a prejudice problem with Lincoln.

    This review comes off as a poor excuse for fair, unbiased journalism, and gives the Edmunds website a black eye if she's qualified enough to be a senior editor. The other journalists on this website seem to have a more even-tempered set of skills for evaluating an automobile on it's merits, maybe over time Erin can learn something from them. :lemon:
  • It always strikes me how individual reviewers pick up on, emphasize or de-emphasize different things. But that is why I read many reviews for any car. Reviewers are no different than buyers in that regard. They have individual preferences.

    This Edmunds reviewer was not impressed with the MKZ. Period. I may not be duly impressed with one of her favorites. There is no need to take any of it personally.

    The argument that it beat an M5 falls if apples-to-apples tires are shod on each vehicle. I think her point is that these tires on this car render it louder and more uncomfortable than the MKZ should be. Few people buying this type of car want sport at the expense of comfort. (That may change a bit when an Ecoboost 3.5 model is offered that is more all-of-a-piece.) So relax. She had a point to make. You do as well.

    Remember that very few people are ever completely unbiased. The little Lincoln fan club on this thread certainly isn't. We all hope that Lincoln will begin to issue true excellence very soon. MKZ is a start around the bases, but hardly a home run.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The argument that it beat an M5 falls if apples-to-apples tires are shod on each vehicle.

    They were the same tires that the M5 uses. That was the point.

    It's not that we're fanbois who get upset at anything negative. There are plenty of negative things that could be said about the MKZ and Lincoln in general without going overboard or exaggerating.

    It's just irritating that Lincoln is making significant headway to change they way everybody said they need to change and they still don't get treated fairly by some of the media.

    As for Edmunds - I remember their senior editor back in 2002 or so (Wardlaw) who said Lincoln couldn't make up their mind about engine displacement because the Stype had a 4.0L engine and the LS said it was 3.9L. I tried to explain that the difference in displacement had to do with the Lincoln engine having a 85 mm stroke vs. 86 mm in the Jag. His answer - well what does stroke have to do with displacement? Which is akin to saying "why does a taller glass hold more water than a shorter glass?". Then he complains about the transmission shifting on the LS and takes it in for service, knowing there was a TSB available that fixed it. Did he mention the TSB that he knew about? Nope. He waited to see if the service advisor would find it on his own and he didn't, so he put up with the bad shifting for 6 more months and complained about it constantly.

    And I won't even mention that he couldn't find the battery which was mounted in the trunk.

    So I don't have a lot of respect for Edmunds senior editors in the first place nor most automotive journalists. They all seem to have their biases and they don't always do proper research. That doesn't mean it isn't frustrating though.
  • Sorry about the tire confusion.

    But my point is that reviews don't have to be frustrating. To take offense at an auto journalist's opinion just because her opinion frosts your cookies, doesn't change a thing as compared to simply taking note of your disagreement and moving on.

    I am fascinated as well by the lack of knowledge and insight within many of these articles. But I just cannot waste my energy getting upset about something that I cannot change, and that will not change. What I have found is that like with movie reviews, book reviews or anything else, the bulk of reviews of any model taken together more or less provide an overall rating. To balance out Edmunds, I have also seen a completely glowing review of the new MKZ. I pay attention to the regression toward the mean.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    As you well know I tend to get wound up over this stuff way more than I should. And it's not just a Ford thing - that's just where I spend most of my time. Biased and inaccurate reporting irks me to no end.

    Maybe that's why my blood pressure is a little higher than it should be. I'll try to do more ignoring and less ranting.
  • Ah...you're ok, Allen. Just a bit a a fanboi...
  • http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/drives/2013-lincoln-mkz-test-drive

    The new MKZ is so much better than the 2012. Yet it competes in a 2013 environment that reasonably can expect more, given the competition.

    If you drive a car for awhile as these testers did, and conclude that there is little to be gained for that $20K over the Fusion Titanium, that is a problem. For Lincoln it is a big problem, because this car cannot be redone for at least five more years.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I don't think the $20K comparison is valid because it includes features not available on the Fusion like THX stereo, LED adaptive headlamps, retractable glass roof, 3.7L V6, Lincoln ride control.

    I priced a MKZ and it was about $10K more than a comparably equipped Fusion Titanium. For that you get a longer warranty, free maintenance, upgraded materials, Lincoln Ride Control, LED headlamps, heated and cooled seats, push button shifter and lots of smaller upgrades.

    Whether those extra things are worth $10K is really a personal decision. For some it is and others (like me) it isn't. But at least you're not getting a rebadge job.

    I also think the MKZ will get a major facelift for 2015 with a new front that's closer to the MKC concept and engine upgrades. They're not going to wait 5 years.
  • Engine upgrades good. Money spent modifying front clip--w which already resembles the MKC clip--probably a waste of resources. Put it instead into more luxurious feel to the push button transmission, or upgraded door panel trimmings.
  • tommyycartommyycar Member Posts: 2
    I really like this car. And I am thinking of getting one. My biggest pet peeve is that the pricing out of this car seems to have mastered the greedy art of making the buyer pay for lots of stuff he doesn't want in order to get one simple thing he DOES want. Case in point, I really like rain sensing wipers. But the only way to get these in this car is to buy a technology package (costing thousands of dollars) that I do not want in order to get them. What on earth do rain sense wipers have to do with all the electronic gadgetry? These should be standard on a vehicle purported to be a luxury vehicle anyway! I will wait until the 2014 model comes out to see if Lincoln has rethought hits option packaging.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Don't count on it. This isn't just a Ford thing. If you make every option a la carte that's great for someone ordering a vehicle but it sucks for the dealers who have to maintain inventory.
  • alex1212alex1212 Member Posts: 1
    Was planning on looking at the MKZ but when the date kept being pushed back I began to wonder if they were having problems. Also if I waited much longer the 2014 would be out. I also started getting nervous about trade in value when I wanted to trade it in so I went with the Lexus ES-350. Bought it in December. Love it. Very pleased that I bought it instead of the MKZ. Lexus just seems to have a better name & reputation than Lincoln.
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    My experience exactly ... I purchased the 350 in Oct. With all the hype beginning in 2012, I anticipated 2013 MKZ would be available by Sept. Suspect there were labor and/or production problems in Mexico. Love the 350 and the dealership Lincoln has a long way to go to catch up here. As I said previously In many dealerships Lincoln seems to be an afterthought to Ford cars and trucks. Miss my 2008 MKZ but not the dealership experience. 350 is great and will consider the RX to replace my SUV.

    Jerry
  • alakersonalakerson Member Posts: 9
    Ah, the dealership experience -- to me that is Lincoln's Achilles heel. I am on my 3rd leased MKZ, have always liked the room, the quality -- and getting all the bells and whistles for much less than similar AWD cars. But on my second and third Lincolns, I came close to gettng another brand simply because of the dealership. And as someone else said, I got the idea that at this dealership, Lincoln was a poor stepchild. In fact, with all three MKZs, I started taking them to another Ford dealer for service and warranty work; much more pleased with them and their customer service.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Lincoln started working on revamping the dealer experience 2 years ago. I think part of the delay is that they were trying to force out some of the dealers - they had too many. The ones that remain are expected to do major upgrades to facilities including Lexus like services. Obviously some dealers will make the changes sooner and some may resist but at least there is a concrete plan to address the issue as soon as its feasible. Lincoln understands this is a big gap and is required to compete with Lexus and the other luxury makes.

    The MKZ launch is a fiasco as was the Fusion launch at the same plant. I think they cut too many corners on the schedule and ended up with too many problems. They seem to be resolved now and dealers are getting shipments but they probably should have waited and done a March release on both vehicles.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    And they should have called both 2014 models. As for having too many dealers, BS. Cutting dealers will cut sales. That is a fact. Look at other brands that have severely cut dealers.

    What they need to do is educate dealers as to what will engender more sales in 2013. Dealers can change, or cut their own throats...but forcing out a certain percentage will not fix what is a culture that hasn't figured out why the Lexus dealer down the street has more business, even though the product isn't obviously superior.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If they had known the MKZ would be delayed so long they would have made it a 2014 model, no question. But that wasn't the initial plan.

    They absolutely had too many dealers for the modest (and more realistic) projected sales volume since Mercury was cancelled. Mercury volume (mostly fleet and employee sales) kept the dealers afloat but that's no longer there. They're simply trying to size the number of dealers to the number of vehicles they expect to be sold. It's a lot easier to justify the upgrades that they're asking the dealers to make if there are fewer dealers with more volume available per dealer.

    It doesn't solve the poor service - that's not the intent.
  • I understand what you're saying. However, without a lot great new product, fewer dealers don't usually translate into more saes per dealer...just less sales. Lincoln's numbers bear this out.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I don't agree that fewer dealers equals fewer sales. We're talking about having one dealer in a large city instead of 4. If a customer wants a Lincoln they can go buy one. Regardless of whether Lincoln is selling 10 vehicles per month in one location or 1000 - more sales per dealer helps offset the

    The sales drop is due to poor products and Ford's unwillingness to throw large sums of cash on the hood. Not dealer contraction.

    By contrast - do you think that Lexus - who doesn't have very many dealers to begin with - could increase sales by adding dealers? Of course not.
  • magician2166magician2166 Member Posts: 10
    Lincoln has a terrible customer service. I had ordered my 2013 Lincoln MKZ in October 2012. I was among the first ones who did so. They informed me in April 2013 after waiting 6 months due to the production delays that they cancelled my order by mistake. Imagine that. They ordered another vehicle for me and offered $900.00 incentive for their mistake. I waited another 8 weeks to find out that my car was damaged in transit and needs repairs. My repeated attempts to find out from my dealership and Lincoln Customer Service when finally I will be getting the car did not bring any results. I walked away from this joke on June 7th. 2013 after waiting 8 months and never got the car. Meet a new Lincoln Luxury.
    I want people to know that Lincoln's ignorance and total disregard do not translate into extra they charge. If people are willing to go with Lincoln, they should understand that they will not get Lexus or Audi type service. They will not get it, period.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Every Lincoln dealer is an independent business so results will vary. Some are great and some are terrible. Unfortunately Ford has very little recourse with bad dealers due to state franchise laws.

    The problem with the MKZ launch is that it was a totally new vehicle and inspection process that had not been done before and when they decided to send the cars to Michigan for inspection to clear the backlog they found out their tracking process wasn't able to handle it. Not an excuse - just an explanation that this was a unique situation that probably won't happen again.

    It will take Lincoln several years to get most of the dealerships upgraded .
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    I agree ... see my post #3012,
    Jerry
  • 99accent99accent Member Posts: 237
    My daughter has a 2006 Zephyr and its the most beautiful car she ever had comparable to the Mitsubishi gallants and Jeep, pathfinder and more, I have driven this car and its just a comfort to drive. the MKZ took its place yet looks the same except for the grill and tail lights same interior. If Lincoln loses it line because of inspection problems it will be a true shame
  • magician2166magician2166 Member Posts: 10
    Yes, I read it. Thank you
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Ford/Lincoln had a disastrous launch on the MKZ, that's for sure. Couldn't have come at a worse time for them. I had no problems with my 2011 MKZ hybrid purchase, or since. Hope Lincoln gets back on track.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Based on MkZ sales they're already back on track and the botched launch is nothing but a distant memory.
  • Really? July MKZ sales are nothing to write in a blog about. Demand has faltered already, even as other brands are making sales records. The MKS is up though. helping Lincoln stay almost even with 2012 July sales.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    edited August 2013
    MKZ is doing fine:
    "The Lincoln MKZ posted its best-ever June sales, with 3,180 vehicles sold. In addition, the second quarter represented MKZ’s best quarterly sales performance ever and its first time to exceed 10,000 cars in a quarter, with 10,682 sold."

    July sales were down 7%, true, but that's off a best-ever June.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There is big demand for MKZ hybrids (over 40% of production). The Hermosillo factory is maxed out making Fusions and MKZs right now. When Flat Rock comes online making Fusions that will free up Hermosillo to meet the actual MKZ demand and we'll see what that looks like by end of year.

    MKZ is not a home run but it's a solid double and big steps in the right direction.
  • red0624red0624 Member Posts: 5
    I'm now the happy owner of a 2013 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. But I almost wasn't. It took 6 months (from Sept-March). I looked at Lexus (already owned one and loved it), BMW, Volkswagen, Buick & Cadillac. Got angry, stomped my feet, made phone calls and threatened to take my business elsewhere. They certainly overpromised and were inexcusably late on delivery. Right hand and left hand not very well informed.
    But right now, there's no doubt in my mind that the car was worth waiting for. Since March, I've put on about 7600 miles; today I'm getting 41.5 mpg (best day ever was 43.3). People stop me in parking lots and at traffic lights, asking about the car. It is a hot, fun, eco-friendly luxury car. And it is surely not my grandpa's Lincoln. It has had a couple of minor quirks - probably won't be as trouble-free as my Lexus was.
    But I'd pick it again because every time I see it...it makes me smile. :shades:
  • Your definition of "doing fine" differs from mine. The best ever June appears to have been due to pent-up demand from so many months of very limited production.

    That 7% reduction in July is not from June sales. It is from July, 2012 sales. Thus the new one did not sell as well in July as the old one did last July. Sales would have to pick up in order for the 2013 to outsell the 2012. This is not what Lincoln (or Allen) had hoped for.

    Meanwhile, the MKZ Hybrid is doing very well as a percentage of overall MKZ sales. However, this market is still quite small.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Mkz inventory was back to normal in March. If you have a higher than expected sales volume one month there is less to sell the next month. See fusion sales for reference.

    If sales stay low after Flat Rock is online and they are no longer production constrained then its time to worry a little.
  • johnbmattjohnbmatt Member Posts: 1
    You should be happy that you did not receive one of the original MKZ's. I was unlucky enough to receive one of the first 100 produced (drove it home in April). In the first 1000 miles of ownership there was a failure in the adaptive suspension and one of the adaptive headlights. There was also a persistent engine error code that could not be resolved. In addition, there were several nuisance items (rattling head liner, SYNC issues, etc.) that were not resolved. Another bonus to the early MKZs was the defective/leaky fuel delivery module (fuel pump), and spares were nearly impossible to obtain (took 7 weeks for the dealer to get the new pump). I have owned the car for five months, of which three of those months the car has been at the dealer.

    After several conversations with Lincoln Customer Care, and a threat of Lemon Law, I was referred to the Ford Re-acquisition group. The Lincoln Customer Care representative that I dealt with was condescending, rude, typically took 3-5 phone calls over the course of multiple days to get a call back. The sad thing - I asked for his manager's name and number, which he gave me, and he was even more rude to me.

    I was basically told that I was "lucky" to get a buy back and that "the company is only obligated to fix your vehicle, not buy it back"... even though after 4 attempts they could not resolve the issues with my car.

    I can understand quality, supplier, and assembly process issues... But, to then be treated horribly by the Customer Care individuals representing the company that provided such a defective product, be subjected to rude, demeaning comments and banter, is inexcusable.

    I owned an Audi for nearly 12 years and got 220,000 miles before the transmission gave up the ghost. There were minor bumps along the way, but the Customer Care that Audi provides is amazingly good, and even better now that I compare it to the poor excuse provided by Lincoln. I wanted to give an American car company another shot... apparently Lincoln was the wrong choice.

    I have written letters to four of Ford/Lincoln's VPs and one of the Executive VPs. Perhaps one of them can treat a customer like a customer and not push them away.
  • magician2166magician2166 Member Posts: 10
    Thank You for writing to me. As I am thankful by now that I never got the car, I am terribly sorry to learn that you have to deal with this disgrace. So much for new and redesigned Lincoln luxury. It must be in a working culture that prohibits people in this country to come anywhere close to their German and Japanese counterparts. Though there is always a hope somewhere in the air...
    I cried a little and moved on. I got myself an Audi instead and cannot be happier. It is truly a pinnacle of an automotive technology, luxury, comfort and prestige. And then their Customer Service is just a strawberry on the top. :-)
    Lincoln should give me a call. I will let them testdrive this spaceship. Perhaps this will wake them up.
    I am wishing You all the very best in resolving the problems with Your car.
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    Looks like Lincoln customer service is on a par with their dealerships. Lincoln has a long way to go. I am sooo happy I purchased a Lexus. Doubt if I will ever consider a Lincoln (or a car made in Mexico) again.
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  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Wow - they're still claiming that the tires are not available? They are and have been the whole time - they're part of the "summer tire handling package". Poor fact-checking.

    The MKZ does need the new 2.3L EB and another engine above the 3.7L. I think at least the 2.3LEB is coming within the next year.

    Since when is acceleration a consideration with a hybrid? The MKZ hybrid is rated 5 mpg better than the direct competition. They finally acknowledge that (begrudgingly) but only after the rant on performance.

    MSRP is high but again I think that's part of the game plan especially since the hybrid is in such high demand and manufacturing was constrained until the last couple of months when Flat Rock started building Fusions. I think we'll see more content and performance with the price staying the same.

    If the current MKZ was Lincoln's end goal it wouldn't be good. But as a building block for the future it's not bad. And it's certainly the best vehicle Lincoln has created in at least a couple of decades (and yes that includes the LS which I owned).
  • The LS was better in its time. It was at or near the top of its class back then. Comparing a 1999 vehicle to a 2013 is not a fair comparison no matter how you do it, but given the accolades Lincoln got for the LS and the lukewarm-to-good reception of the MKZ, I think the LS wins. Yes, I know it was poorly planned as a vehicle to make Lincoln any money
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    edited October 2013
    And since you mentioned press coverage - you have the Genesis which was critically acclaimed (according to you) and the MKZ which is almost universally panned). The MKZ sedan is outselling the Genesis over 2 to 1 even with high MKZ msrps and very few rebates. That should tell you something.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The only thing the LS was good at was handling. It had good cornering and a fantastic anti-dive/anti-squat geometry that kept it level at all times even in panic braking. But the suspension was flawed and did not provide the ride quality of the 5 series with Macpherson struts. The engine was a jewel but limited to 280 hp and it was super expensive compared to the corporate mod v8 which would have produced more power at a cheaper cost but it wouldn't fit in from the bottom on the assembly line due to that shiny aluminum suspension. The interior was cheap - no 2 ways about it. Most owners added a faux wood dash kit (me included) to cover up the plain black plastic. As a luxury car it was middle of the road with just a few niceties. As a performance car it was middle of the road with great steering and decent power but not at the top of the pack for sure.

    This really just boils down to the same old FWD/AWD vs. RWD argument.
  • No, you don't. The LS with all its flaws tested very well against the competition. It was a car of the year winner. The MKZ never had a chance of winning within the field of new cars within which it was introduced.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2013
    It tells me (I repeat once again, Allen) that the Genesis, at the very end of its present product cycle, is still selling well for a specialty RWD luxury model that does not offer AWD (a demerit in the northern half of the country) from a non-luxury make.

    The MKZ at the beginning of its cycle can barely outsell the previous MKZ.

    BTW, the Camry still outsells the Fusion and Accord and Altima even though the latter three are superior to it. Thankfully, they all have made gains against the Camry appliance, but making a better product does not always translate into the best sales. That process can take many years.

    In the MKZ's case, it is a good car but not the superior product in its category, a category which does not include a certain RWD V8 sedan from South Korea. To crow about the MKZ outselling the Genesis is damning with faint praise.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You don't get it Gregg. The object of the game is not to win magazine comparisons (unless you're GM). The object is to create and sell vehicles that can be sold at a profit. And I've told you repeatedly that the current MKZ is not where it should and will be yet - it still needs more power and better styling.
  • I do get it. You assume I am always on the other side.

    Never did I say anything about the object being winning magazine comparisons. Magazine comparison wins come with superior products.

    Lincoln may be selling its few units at a profit for all I know, but who cares? I don't know whether Ford loses money on Lincoln or not, but we all know they are not making any money with it right now. It makes no difference in Ford's bottom line. The object of a luxury division is to add to that bottom line, even with fewer unit sales. I know you know that.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think the problem is you are focused solely on the product and not at all focused on the business side - as evidenced whenever I point out how much money GM has wasted on Cadillac platforms and dead vehicles the last decade. I probably tend to focus too much on the business side because I deal with 7 and 8 figure business cases and business strategy all the time.

    If Lincoln was solidly established - with upgraded dealerships, upgraded or new vehicles in all segments, etc. - then it would make a lot more sense to go after a high performance halo vehicle. But given that Lincoln is starting over from scratch and trying to build the entire dealership experience and vehicle lineup from the ground up, it just doesn't make sense for them to waste money on low volume halo vehicles just to "wow" the press and enthusiasts.

    The Lexus ES and RX probably generate an order of magnitude more profit for Lexus than all of the RWD models combined due to the higher platform costs and much lower volume. Same for the Audi A4 and A6.

    The jury is still out on whether they can execute this new strategy but it's not fair to judge them on it when they haven't had time to really get it started yet. That's all I'm saying.
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