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On the other hand Ford Motor Co. an American based auto maker for the most part utilizing Mexican workers to assemble the Zephyr, Fusion, & Milan side by side in Hermosillo with parts outsourced from anywhere but with the profits going to USA Ford.
You'll have to decide for yourself your definition of "buy American".
The Japanese aren't being Patriotic, by the way, by building the Acura on American soil. They avoid trade restrictions and tariffs that way.
So, I say, let's DRIVE a Zephyr, and see what they've come up with. I hope it feels better than my test drive in a Chrysler 300C did. I was disappointed in the feel of that car.
~alpha
As for the 3.5L and AWD, around 8-10 months after the initial debut of the Zephyr. HP/TQ have not yet been determined for that specific application, but the Aviator will give you an idea roughly of what it'll pump out. I'm guestimating 240-250HP as a safe ballpark figure, mainly because the 6 speed automatic will extrapolate and make it feel as much more.
It better be priced well....
Was it AWD or 2WD?
~alpha
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/15/127121.html
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=21021&make_id=trust
I approve of the pricing. How it will drive, however, is still pretty foggy. If they soften the suspension to absorb road imperfections, then I have a sinking feeling that the Zephyr will be none-too-well of a handler. Not that I'm complaining. 29k is pretty attractive.
A CVT could have been coupled with the Zephyr's 3.0L V6, but there's been issues meeting the demand, since the CVT and AWD combination has been selling so well for the 500/FS/Montego trio.
Once the GM/Ford JV transmission comes online, there will be less of a need for the current Aisin supplied 6-A, therefore it'll be phased off completely.
B (?) bodies Chevrolet Caprice/Impala, Pontiac Bonneville/Catalina, Buick-Le Sabre Oldsmobile Delta 88
The six available options include:
Industry-exclusive THX II-Certified ® audio system featuring 14 speakers – ten primary speakers deliver surround sound; two front and rear center-channel speakers add acoustical depth; and two subwoofers augmented by power amplifiers deliver deep, rich bass – and a quick-loading six-disc player compatible with normal audio, MP3 compressed or text format CDs ($995).
DVD-based navigation system on a single disc that features a sharp, 6.5-inch-wide screen and text-to-speech technology for travel directions aloud in English, Spanish or French. Includes THX II-Certified ® audio system as detailed above ($2,495).
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps designed to produce more light, last longer and use less energy than typical incandescent headlamps ($495).
17-inch 8-spoke chrome wheels ($895).
Perforated premium leather cooled front seats ($495).
Power moonroof ($1,200).
The MSRP of a fully-loaded Zephyr featuring all available options is $35,575. All prices include destination and delivery.
just 35.5K FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats 2 power everything seats (10 way!)
Tha Nav, the Xenon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14 speaker audio!
One thing though, ANT, could you please explain how they got 221 hp out of that engine when it was supposed to be 210 hp? Is it the Mazda configuration with more hp, less torque?
Also, this car seems a bit odd tome, since the inside of the car is old-mans land and the out side is sophisticated, yet the engine if tweaked for revs, is not a torque happy as old people like there cars to be (i like it to though). It just seams that either the interrior should reflect young peoples style (chrome, black wood, the works) or the engine should be toned for max torque.
Either way, at 221 hp and with 35K for everything, i can see this car competing with the Acura TL and Lexus ES 330.
The transmission seemed very responsive to me. There are a lot of hills around our destination and it was very good at downshifting to hold speed relatively constant without the driver having to do a lot of throttle compensation. In normal acceleration from stop to final speed there were no abrupt shift points. Everything was very smooth. During hard acceleration like to enter the throughways it would quickly get the engine revving. No hesitation. No complaints at all.
Maybe yours was defective?
Using 87 Octane gas has always been a prority. Surely, there's other engines making more horsepower, and most probably using higher octane rating. In this case, the advantage of the transmission will help it, without the increasing cost of higher octane gas.
Now if they're really crafty they'll allow the engine timing to be advanced to provide even more power if higher octane is used, so those that want more power can get it.
I'm not totally loopy, several auto reviewers also think that the 6 speed is unsuited for the Five Hundred.
Although if it was defective, I can't be completely surprised. Afterall, it is a Ford. :P
(just joking, everyone)
Your vehicle's computer will advance the timing as far as it can until preiginition occurs. If you use 87 octane or 100+ AV fuel, it will optimize it's own tuning.
I'd love to see Lincoln come out with a tank-styled, rear drive sedan (Think Chrysler 300C) with the slab sides and mesh grille of a 1961 Continental with a Cobra engine in it and they'd finally have a vehicle that people, other than 80 year olds and rental car companies, would actually WANT to buy.
They should design it from the start to have the possibility for a one-of-a-kind, "heritage-correct" 4 door convertible version.
Should be easy enough to test or maybe I can find out from the engineers.
Lincoln (and Ford in general) needs a lot of good, mainstream products to get profits and market share back up and then they can afford to go after the more exciting lower volume vehicles that most of us really want. Remember most of the new cars we're seeing now were designed 3-4 years ago (or more) right after the Firestone fiasco. Lincoln's R&D Budget was cut from $2B to $600K overnight. What little money Ford had left went to keep the high profit trucks and SUVs up to date.
No one, except Hertz and Avis craves boring.
How are the 300C sedan and Magnum wagon selling compared to the "good and mainstream" 500 and Freestyle? They are so anonymous and devoid of styling they are like black holes of anti-design.
Ask any sports fan what happens when you are behind and play really tight and scared to lose.
Here are the top selling cars of 2004:
Camry - 426,990
Accord - 386,770
Honda Civic - 309,196
Chevrolet Impala - 290,259
Ford Taurus - 248,148
The 300C has been out for over a year and has a high-po model. In May they sold just under 13K. The 500 and Montego have been out for just over 4 months without a hi-po model (or even a medium-po model), sales are still ramping up and they sold over 11K. By the end of the year they should be outselling the 300C or at least keeping up.
They sold 5000 Dodge Magnums in May, including the hemi model. Ford sold just over 6000 Freestyles.
Boring sells. Period. And that's what Ford needs right now strictly from a business standpoint. We'd all like to see more power and sexier designs but that doesn't necessarily translate to higher sales and more profit.
Do you think a single one of those miserable tired Impalas and Tauruses was sold to a non-rental, non-fleet, real-life retail buyer without paying them thousands of dollars in incentives in order to bribe them into accepting a substandard product?
Every 500/Freestyle I've ever seen has been a rental car.
When you are behind, you swing for the fences, and play to win, not tighten up hoping not to lose.
I don't mean to be argumentive - but every 300 I've seen has also been a rental....
Magnums were going through the auction last Friday for $15,000 like goose excrement through a tin horn.... They look good - but they're nothing great to drive, and not as substantial and competent feeling to me as the 500 is.
The only real question that I have is whether the reliability and durability of the Zephyr will be in the same conversation as its Japanese rivals. If it is then Zephyr will certainly be on the my short list. At around 35,000 fully loaded with ventilated seats, navigation and that sound system the Zephyr makes a compelling argument. Furthermore with sales volume expected to be much lower the TL/ES couldn't it be viewed as a best kept secret?
The Five Hundred is even more boring than a Camcord to me. It exudes negative personality.
I really hope that they market the Zephyr. It looks promising.
About badge engineering, Ford is making clones. Of course, the new midsizers aren't all Mazda 6's (for better or worse), but they are all pretty much copies of each other.
FWIW, 12% is right where the Camry is, I believe, so the Five Hundred isnt really seeing a tremendous amount of fleet like, for example, the Taurus.
~alpha
If a 500 was spotted a few months ago, and supposedly it was considered "a rental vehicle" it's because THAT rental company paid full price for it (Enterprise does this quite a bit)...therefore it's impossible that "ALL 500 have been rental vehicles".
The Zephyr will also be sold in minimal numbers as well....And because of flexible manufacturing, if the Fusion, or Milan version is selling at a higher rate, a flick of the switch will allow it to change to fullfill those numbers. Hence, resale or over-inventory won't be an issue.
I'd be surprised if you see an Zephyrs in rental fleets any time real soon - maybe in 6 months, and then sparingly. It's still hard to rent an LS from Hertz - believe me, I try every chance I get.
nvbanker - I was reading this just to keep up on what must be very critical new products for Ford, but appreciate the insight into the Magnum resale values. Many of the 300 and Magnum buyers are either Hip-Hop types or hot rodders spending all kinds of money on modifications, both indicators that those vehicles are appealing to a very limited market.
As ANT14 has indicated (maybe hoped) it looks like Ford will have the last laugh, with the 300 / Magnum (and probably Charger with its dismal interior) being fads and the new Ford/Mercury/Lincoln models offering attractive alternatives to the Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura products.
HOST - why is the Zephyr in a separate discussion, while the Fusion and Milan are in one? All of them should be in the same discussion.
Don't group the Fusion, Milan and Zephyr in the same forum! The Zephyr is different enough from the Fusion/Milan to earn its own forum! Besides all three in the same forum just makes things confusing. Most things that apply to the Zephyr don't apply to the Fusion/Milan.
~alpha
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The Fusion/Milan forum has a greater percentage of posts about the Fusion, adding
the Zephyr when that is the car of interest means perusing a lot of posts needlessly.
Even when the Zephyr/Milan/Fusion are released in late August and these topics
make their way to the Sedans Forum, I believe the separation should be continued.
- The Fusion/Milan, I believe have none of these as options
- The Fusion/Milan cater to different markets, they compete with Accords and Camrys, the Zephyr chases TLs and ES330s.
- The prices are way different
Yes, the three cars are on the same platform and share the same powertrain and dimensions, but let's not combine forums. Keep it simple!
Hey ANT, do you know how pwerful the 35 will be in the Zefyr? since we know the fusion ST270 will have that many horses, could the lincoln get the 270 version at least as an option to fight off the TL?