Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

akirby · November 2005

If you want to comment on the car that's fine but stop making up stories about mexican workers. They make a lot more than a few dollars per hour and from what I understand from Ford employees the quality of cars coming out of that plant is as good if not better than any of the domestic plants. They made the Focus there for years and I don't recall any quality complaints. Don't even mention the recalls - those were engineering and parts supplier problems, not assembly problems.

explorerx4 · November 2005

i don't like jumping into a topic like this, but my '04 assembled in mexico focus has not had any problems in 19 car payments.

dardson1 · November 2005

very interesting. I didn't know that. All come from Mexico? Maybe they shoulda called it a Zypherita. This new-world-order is moving too fast for me. Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, and Jaguar. Mercedes owns Chrysler. GM owns Saab and I think part of Germany's Opel. Somebody bought Land Rover. The French own a big part of Nissan (IMHO these cars are getting as weird-looking as a Citron and about as dependable). Nothing is sacred, lol.

akirby · November 2005

Ford owns Land Rover also. It's a global economy and companies that don't realize that and take advantage of it won't be around very long.

jtford · November 2005

THX system sounds nice, though I only listened to the radio, not any CD's. Also, I was on my lunch break and spent most of my time test driving.

I have a nice aftermarket system with JL amps and MB Quart speakers in the 'ol '98 SVT Contour, so my audio tastes are fairly stringent. The THX system sounds good enough to statisfy, particularly in a factory system with nice integrated look and full steering wheel controls.

One disappointment I will chime in on is not having satellite radio integrated with the unit. A $23k Honda Accord EX w/ leather 4-cyl has XM built in. I asked the salesman, and according to him, Sirius can be installed in the THX/Navigation combination and have the controls still be integrated in the factory radio. If you buy the THX without the nav, then Sirius can still be added, but the satellite radio controls need to be mounted on the dash as an external piece, which is a shame. I personally have no use for the Navigation, but if you want satellite radio with integrated controls, it looks like you are stuck with buying the THX/Navigation combo.

-Jeff

starman98 · November 2005

The THX was nice better than a 330 IMO but can't compare to a TL or G35 with Bose.

explorerx4 · November 2005

zephyr seems to be a hit. there were 2 on display. a light colored one your could sit in and black one on a pedestal.
interior seemed really nice to me. head room was lacking in the rear seat despite the cutout in the roof material.
i am over 6 feet.
there was a steady stream of people getting some seat time. the power was even working for adjusting the seats, etc. they ran out of zephyr brochures and when i was leaving there was a kid in the parking lot on his cell phone saying 'you have tell dad about the zephyr, it's really cool'.
i liked it, my wife liked it, and my kids liked it. much better in real life than in pictures. i have not driven it.

battousai1 · November 2005

Are you sure you tested a Zephyr? Especially the road noise comment the car is very quiet, and now that I have mine I would not choose any of the cars you mention over the Zephyr, sure some may have more power, or better handling, but the Zephyr as a package is just right.

Anyway I finally got mine on Friday, all I can say is wow, I sat in a couple at the dealers (red and blue) before mine got in, but IMHO the Tungsten Silver color just makes this car look so much better. its one of those rare cases where photos just don't do it justice.

Just to recap what options I have in mine

Nav/THX II
HIDs
Heated/Cooled seats
Bluetooth (from Blueconnect not the Ford mobile ease one, its listed on the site but my dealer installed this one instead, however I think the blueconnect one is the better system anyway)

So first impressions:

Interior:

Instrument lighting, I was a bit so so looking at photos etc about the 'cool white' LED lighting, but let me tell you in person it looks awesome at night, its so different and well you just got to see it, but it is very nice and classy.

I was also worried about visibility in photos the dash looks like its so high up, but its not and its just fine. Though the rear view is a bit smaller than I'm used too, but I am getting used to it.

Seats are very nice and comfy for me (6' 0" ~190 lb) and the 10 way adjustments help make it so.

Fit and finish looks very good and materials also seem to be top notch. My interor is the charcoal gray with ebony wood.

The Nav/Audio system etc are very intuitive and easy to use, coming from an IT background I rarely read manuals so was pretty much able to get up and running with everything without the manual. Only gripe is the touch screen, it is impossible to keep clean and will always be filled with fingerprints so if you suffer from OCD, well that may be a problem! Alas that is the nature of the beast.

Heating cooling seems to work fine auto setting gets the car to the right temperature in no time.

That's all I can think of for now on the interior

Exterior:

As I said I really like the look of the car, it is just so much better in person. Its not too brash but its no grandpa's car either, its just right for the young professional who also wants to look respectable and mature and not just be another boy racer wanabe

Tires (Tyres) we got Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 (P225/50R17 M+S) here in Canada, not sure if you get the same tires every where, anyway these are supposedly pricy tires and supposed to be good performers while still being quiet, they are also rated a 10/10 by Micheline for snow handling but reviews I have been reading seem to not rate them very well in even moderate snow... we expect some this week so will see how it goes, otherwise will be getting some snow tires for the winter.

Performance:

Haven't really pushed it to the limits, but so far it feels very solid in the corners, taking a 30km/h on ramp at 70-80Km/h didn't phase it at all. Gear changes are imperceptible, though at low speeds there is a slight hesitation before changes (such as pulling in to the garage) but maybe thats just me having to get used to the accelerator.

Power is there for overtaking etc when needed. Though it felt a little lacking my first drive going up some moderate hills, this also may have been due to a need for me to find a better seating arrangement to get better leverage on the accelerator etc.

Thats all I can think of for now, overall I am very happy with the car so far, especially the looks inside and out, and the quality of materials used.

Cheers.

ANT14 · November 2005

The interior is loud?

Compared to a Lexus Ls430, Yes...but compared to many other vehicles in it's pricerange, far from it.

And I have yet to read a review from a media journalist stating it's loud. If anything, they make mention of how quiet it really is.

"The low inventory, questionable reliability, probably terrible resale value..."

All assumptions. I trust you really didn't intend to have a positive experience with the vehicle, and/or just wanting to stir up some dust in the forum...

a2zephyr · November 2005

I understand that Pioneer makes the NAV head unit for the Zephyr, and that it supports a Sirius tuner. Anybody know how much the dealer will charge for installation? Anybody know if the Pioneer SIR-PNR1 Sirius tuner will work with this unit? At $75.00 no doubt it will be much cheaper than what the dealer charges.

theman123 · November 2005

2 more lincoln Zephyr reviews

Zephyr Review

Consumer Guide Review

Notice, in the Consumer Guide review, the list of "cons" on the vehicle.

theman123 · November 2005

Yeah that's right, even PC Mag did a review of the car. They liked the car, but came away disappointed by the lack of technology.

PC Mag Review

explorerx4 · November 2005

my opinion is, never by an oem nav system. get a portable.

tiger16 · November 2005

Does anyone know if the THX II system in the Zephyr will play CD-R (recordable CD) and CD-RW (re-recordable CD)? Since there is no cassette player, this is a big deal. Thanks

battousai1 · November 2005

This has always been a bit of a laugh for me, because there are several warnings throughout the manual not to use 'burnt' cds in the system because some brands may not be compatible, but at the same time the system also allows for MP3 playback, so how exactly did they think you were going to get your MP3s onto an actual factory pressed CD is beyond me.

Anyway so I said to heck with that and burnt some MP3s off my iPod onto CD and it works fine I used HP branded CD-R media, I think any major manufacturer should be fine, Ritek, Tai Yuden, Mitsui, etc (these are rebranded of course by others)... Haven't tried CD-RWs yet.

akirby · November 2005

The warning is more about the paper labels that are sometimes used on CD-Rs which can cause the changer to jam. CD-Rs should be fine but burning at higher speeds may cause the disk to be unreadable. I don't think it will read CD-RWs at all.

a2zephyr · November 2005

Will it also play .WMA's or just .MP3's?

buckwheat · December 2005

http://tinyurl.com/c5trc

akirby · December 2005

Just MP3s, I think.

jaxs1 · December 2005

I saw it on Motorweek and it seemed OK, but I don't see why someone would buy it over many other similarly priced cars.

For instance, why would anyone get a Zephyr instead on an Avalon XLS, Avalon Limited or even a Chrysler 300 Limited or Touring, much less a 300C?

akirby · December 2005

Because 300s are butt ugly and noisy with a cheap interior?

rscherb · December 2005

Dollar for dollar it beats all of the others hands down. The interior is superior and the design is well done. For $28,500 for a car of that class. Good luck finding one to match it.
By the way, the Avalon is so so so butt ugly, like it's brother the Camry.

buckwheat · December 2005

http://tinyurl.com/8bt9k

rbritt · December 2005

Appreciate your reviews! Coincidentally I am in the process of purchasing identical model as you have described. I reside in Canada , as well. I am hoping that you can give me the price paid for the car as I am absolutely dreading the negotiation scheduled for later this week when I revisit the dealership. I would truly appreciate a a little guidance.
As far as the car...I have test driven everything from the 330i , audi A4 2.0, 9-3 aero and cadillac CTS and as a package I can;t find a better choice. although not the best in any one category a fine contender in many and the price seems reasonable.

mikeroch · December 2005

Hi all,

This is my first post to this discussion.

My wife and I test drove a loaded Zephyr last weekend and really liked it. Nice design (ext and int); features; large trunk; etc.. and good value (price; 4 yr warranty; no cost maintenance for 4 yrs; etc....).

However - Crash test results a bit less than expected - only four starts (NHSTA?) instead of five (not yet tested by Insurance Institute.....); AND, no Electronic Stability Control (has almost every other safety feature, I think...).

We have a two year old son and don't want to take any chances with the safety of the car we end up purchasing.

Any comments?

Thanks.

akirby · December 2005

It's a very safe car. If it got 2 stars I'd be worried. Even Volvo S40s and S60s only get 4 stars.

I don't understand all this hype about electronic stability control. I think it's a great feature but not having it does not make a car unsafe. If you're a safe driver to start with then the only time it's going to be needed is an unforseen slick spot on the road. I think it's far more necessary on a top heavy SUV or high powered sports car. I think it's overkill on a 221 hp FWD family sedan.

If you like the car otherwise I wouldn't let those 2 things kill the deal.

tiger16 · December 2005

About a month ago I checked out a Zephyr at a local dealership and left a less than glowing review on another board. I wasn't really negative, I just pointed out some areas I thought came up short for the market segment targeted. Because I really want to like this car, I had another visit. I guess the 3 things that bug me the most are the bulky rear end, that stupid hood prop rod (in a Lincoln!) and that big chrome center stack in the dash (looks like a metal monolith of some sort). Any rumours of an interior upgrade package? I notice Lexus, Infiniti, etc. offer premium options.
The rear end won't be changing anytime soon. The hood prop could be easily rectified. As for the interior, quality materials but, too much metal and silver painted plastic for me (they should have used the Lexus ES for guidance).
If this car is going to be a sales success, it will be for one reason - "bang for buck" (not a bad concept). It doesn't beat out the competion in any other area. It's not the most powerful or most fuel efficient, not the most comfortable or most quiet, doesn't have the best ride or most luxurious interior nor does it have a beautiful exterior. I like the big trunk but, I don't think people come to this market segment because of the trunk.
All of this brings me to this. How are these things selling? I live in the Balto-Washington metro area and I have yet to see one on the road. I frequently pass two LM dealerships and the same Zephyrs have been on the lot for a month now. I think it important for a new car to come out of the gate with strong sales. I don't think sluggish sales ever turn into good sales w/o change. Take a look at the pre-preduction model. This is the car that should be in production. Beautiful exterior, gorgeous dash, console and guages. If this was the car on the market, I would already have one, not still thinking about it.
Click here for pics of the Zephyr

jaxs1 · December 2005

The Zephyr isn't compelling. It has a lower price than an ES330 with similar options, but looks cheaper also.
If you get a really good price and just consider it an upgrade over a loaded Milan it makes more sense.
It dosn't seem to have anything special going for it that would make the resale value hold up.
People will buy it on price new and will also only want it at a bargain price used.

savetheland · December 2005

Lincoln does not play with big guys like Lexus, Infinity, BMW or Mercedes anymore. It is more in competition with Acura and Buick  FWD lower end luxury cars.

akirby · December 2005

That was a marketing decision driven primarily by the desire NOT to compete with Jaguar. Right now Ford and Lincoln needs profits and there is a lot more volume and potential customers in the $30-$45K price range than in the $50K+ price range.

buckwheat · December 2005

Ford Motor Company's automotive luxury brand Lincoln is launching a new lifestyle-oriented custom website, http://www.lincolnlounge.com. The website will debut officially on Monday December 19..

More, http://tinyurl.com/cmpao

ANT14 · December 2005

I was visiting just this past weekend with a few L/M dealerships in S.FL and shared some views. They only had 1-2 Zephyrs in stock and are impressed of how well they are selling, if anything, a bit quicker than the Milans on the lot.

I asked if maybe they see a specific demographic that is opting the Z over the M, but they state it's all over the place. They did note, it wasn't really appealing to older demographics that would generally buy the GM/TC anyways. They have noticed that it's the fully optioned Zephyrs that are moving quickly. And from what sales figures show, the Milan and Zephyr are moving at an almost equal rate last month.

They did point out that the Zephyr seems to catch the attention of males, while the Milan catches the female attention...Although they did have some male buyers that opted for the Milan because it was available in manual.

From comments that they heard from their customers... Some have stated how well muted the Zephyr is, good overall handling/roadability, and the THX stereo system seems to be taking a higher take-rate than expected and even had one cutsomer opt to the higher Zephyr just because of how impressed he was.

They have noticed trade-ins of all sorts, from gas guzzling SUV's, to other luxury V6 vehicle requiring premium gas. A few noted how the premium gas required on their previous luxury vehicle, and the higher price of gas that will continue as prime motivators.

Let's see how things evolve in the coming months...

LanceL99 · December 2005

Does anyone have residuals and the money factor buy rate for a 36 or 39 month lease at 10K miles per year on the Zephyr? Thanks!!

flasvt · December 2005

I wonder if you visited the LM dealer where I bought my Mariner in Hollywood, FL. The service is amazing. Even better than the dealer where I service my SLK 230.

ANT14 · December 2005

I did Margate (Holman), Hollywood, and Pines L/M. I received very positive comments from Margate and Hollywood...calling back to check on the customer the next day, asking other details about the persons life, etc. Just GETTING TO KNOW them. Can't comment on Pines, since I don't know anyone else who has visited them.

heyjewel · December 2005

Mike;

I know it's been a couple weeks since u posted, but thought I'd throw this out there in case you're still thinking.

First - 4 stars on one rating and 5 stars on the rest is better than most out there.

That said, you could get a 5 star all around car at your Lincoln dealer for about the same price as a loaded Zephyr - that would be a left over 2005 or real low mileage used LS. The LS is a better vehicle in most respects, you can get AdvanceTrak and is 5 stars all round. I've had my LS since 2001. 68,000 miles later it runs like the day I bought it. YMMV.

[Deleted User] · December 2005

Yes, the LS is a better car, but it didn't sell very well (bland styling and a car Lincoln dealers didn't understand). Now Lincoln is going FWD/AWD when Infinity, Cadillac and Chrysler are moving back to RWD--where BMW and Mercedes have always been. The Zephyr should sell ok, but it would do better if they had started it at about $28,000 well equipped. For $36,000 loaded, there should have been more differentiation from a care like the Milan: an upgraded engine, a different roofline, AWD option, etc. This car, even with the 3.5 liter and AWD will never be seen at the top of its class. Yet one of these years, Lincoln will have to take that leap or it will continue to be an also-ran.

There are some stopgap things that might have worked better than gussying up bland Fords. Lincoln could have upgraded the present Town Car chassis by adding stiffness and putting a modern body on it. Chopping the front and rear overhangs could get the thing down to 200 inches while retaining the same interior space. But they aren't going to do that. I predict a cautious Lincoln-looking Ford Five Hundred with AWD and perhaps a V-8. Probably good enough for ok sales, but Lincoln will never threaten Cadillac's sales until they take some risks.

Lincoln did well at first with the Navigator. Instead of fully revising successful models regularly, Lincoln (like Ford and Mercury) does cautious updates. It's a shame what happened to the Continental, which had been a success in the 80's and early 90's.

But you can look at any successful Ford and see the neglect over time. The Ranger has chassis dates back to the mid-80s. Prior to the current Mustang, the same Fox chassis underpinned the Mustang from 1979 through 2004. That's 25 years! The Mercury Marquis also dates to 1979, and the current body style to 1991. Get new beancounters, guys, who understand that the money has to go into innovative product.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so blabby-mouthed. This is about Zephyr. There were high hopes and good reviews for the LS when it was introduced, but that wasn't enough to cut the mustard. I hope the Zephyr survives long enough for a re-style (more along the lines of the last few concept cars), more torque, and the electronics of a modern luxury car.

jaxs1 · December 2005

Yes, some people will buy it if they don't wany to spend the extra money to get a Lexus ES or they have a habit or tradition of buying Lincolns, but it isn't compelling at all.
Some people still buy the Town Car and Continental.

It needs a better powertrain that is a class above the Milan's at the least. The interior could still be better.

If Ford had a bargain lease deal to make up for the poor residuals (so I could get rid of it in 2 or 3 years without resale woes) I'd go look at one.

rscherb · December 2005

This argument about residuals is a joke. Look at the resale values of Lexus and Mercedes after 3 years. They also lose about 50% of their respective values. Don't kid yourselves, they don't hold their value nearly what the popular mindsets say that they do.

jaxs1 · December 2005

50% of MSRP after 3 years is still much better than what anyone could expect from the Zephyr and most other cars.

johnclineii · December 2005

http://tinyurl.com/d76v4

jaxs1 · December 2005

They said basically the same thing I did. "Not compelling."
This message board's low volume of posts says as much.

heyjewel · December 2005

I must agree the Zephyr holds little interest for me. I saw one at the dealer and it was parked right next to a Milan. They look so similar front and rear, though I do think the Zephyr is a better looking car. But the Milan was like $24K with a fair amount of options and the Z was over $30K. At least $6K difference. How do they get the price up so high on the Z compared to the M? Here's one way - looking at the sticker price I saw they both had optional sunroofs. Except the one in the Milan cost $800 and the one in the Zephyr was $1200. Same size glass, $400 more. I think I'll pass on this one Lincoln.

Now to the LS, which I bought new in 2001. Actually I think it was a pretty good seller for Lincoln. Though not as good as could have been if the dealers had bothered to understand it. It amazes me whenever I go car shopping, no matter what the brand I always know more about the car than any sales person I talk to. Dealers and sales people just want stuff that sells itself like a Mustang or F150. The rest is just taking up space.

The LS rear end may be kinda bland looking but I love the design of the rest of the car. THe front is low and mean looking and the profile is really classy and aggressive looking.

One more thing - I've seen the new Lincolns that are based on the 500-type architecture and believe me, they are anything but conservative. I don't know about powertrains etc but if they have a version of the mod V8 available to distinguish from the 500/Montego they will be quite the cars.

Merry Christmas all, or whatever your pleasure.

akirby · December 2005

Sorry George - no modular V8s for the D3 based cars. But Volvo has some nice inline 6's and a Yamaha V8 available.

flasvt · December 2005

I purchased from Hollywood LM, also a Holman dealership. Great service. Would go back, if the have the right car

navigator89 · December 2005

Where did you find pictures of the new Lincolns? Could you post some?

johnclineii · December 2005

He said he had SEEN the new Lincolns...not pictures of them. I am pretty sure Ford has tried its level best at this point to be sure there are no pictures out there of those yet to be produced Lincolns...

akirby · December 2005

Right - he was invited to a special focus group. They didn't say what the cars were but it's not that hard to tell. It was very early though to the final cars could look nothing like the early prototypes.

ANT14 · December 2005

Here's a teaser pic of one of the headlights from one of the new Lincoln sedans...

link

heyjewel · December 2005

"Where did you find pictures of the new Lincolns? Could you post some?"

Like akirby and johnc said - no photos just focus group memories. There were about 10 vehicles and 2 were new Lincolns. All badges were covered but it was easy to know what was what. The 2 Lincolns were better looking by far than the others (IMHO) - an Infiniti 'M' and Lexus 4xx - both those cars are overdone and a bit 'chubby', to my taste. The Cadillacs - well we all have differing opinions about those. I tend to like em, but they pale next to these L sedans. I forget the rest. The L interior was a mock up so that's their last design element. It was good too, thought the Japanese cars set a high value precedent. The Caddy interiors were sorry in comparison.

We weren't supposed to talk to one another, but I did ask a couple of folks which of the 10 was their favorite - they both said the bigger of the 2 Lincolns. My fav was the smaller (not much smaller) of the 2 cause it was sportier.

Last, someone mentioned that the new Lincolns would probably be 'conservative' and I disagreed. If u don't believe me, take a look at the teaser ANT posted. Anything conservative about that?? :>)

Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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