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I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Nope, I don't know if that had been invented yet. Some design issues in old cars are also rust nests - floors, trunks, rockers, headlight areas - places that retain moisture.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think galvanization became mainstream in the early 90s but it would not surprise me if Benz was a decade or more ahead of the curve.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Porsche started using galvanized steel back in 1974. The rest of the industry caught up by mid 1980's.

    Galvanizing covers a broad spectrum of applications using zinc. The best application is hot dipping but that leaves a thick finish that can't be painted or welded.

    IIRC, cars are dipped in a zinc rich primer that bonds to the metal with electricity.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I remember seeing 2 year old Hyundai Excels with massive rust. They came out in 1985 IIRC.

    I guess it was phased in and the cheapies got it last.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    2013 Ford Escape owners are concerned about rust already showing up underneath, including the knuckles and such around the wheels.

    I'm wondering if that's intentional - maybe Ford is using the oxidation for "protection"? I've seen a few "steel" commercial buildings that are intentionally allowed to rust. "Weathering steel" they call it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frightening to see this early, but it does appear to be surface rust.

    Still - can't they dip those parts? Or at least paint them?

    Reminds me of my '91 Ford Escort GT - I had rust on the fuel filler neck right away, brand new. Fortunately it never got worse, but it sure was ugly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fix Obstinate Rust Daily
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Some MBs are known to be rusters, others not. W126s and W210s can get bad. Models in the past decade seem to be OK, but even some 90s cars, not the best.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    The W210 was a recent low point for MB, it seems, coming after the bulletproof W124, with problems (like rust) I never would have expected.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I suspect some of those who rushed over to Ford because they didn't take a bailout are going to be disappointed. I think "Quality is Job 1" is just marketing puffing. In my experiences with them they really aren't that different than GM, particularly after the warranty runs out. Incidentally, my neighbor has a 4 or 5 year old F-150 with around 70K and it already needs a new transmission and he told me he has a friend with a similar issue. So much for "built tough"!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Ford looks about tied with Nissan and Subaru, a little better than GM, etc.:
    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    124s don't seem to rust, even 123s do OK, but some 210s - not pretty. A HBS case study in bad planning.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll put money on Subaru improving. Their achilles heel was coolant leaks in the head gasket, and now that the coolant was re-routed it simply won't (can't) happen any more.

    Interesting curves from BMW and Hyundai, too.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited February 2013
    I remember reading that the Chevrolet Vega was one of the first GM products to use some sort of dipping-galvanizing method (I know.... Hard to believe), but the process was poorly designed and implemented, and the rustproofing materials never made it to many body locations.

    That, coupled with a thinner steel body and no fender-well liners in the first several year model runs, and owners got bodies that rusted quickly...

    From Wikipedia...

    After a six-stage zinc phosphate rustproofing process and two minutes submerged in a 65,000 US gallons (246,052 L; 54,124 imp gal) electrophoretic painting vat (Fisher Body Division’s "Elpo" electrophoretic deposition of polymers process) to prime and further protect them from rust, assembled bodies were dried, wet-sanded, sealer-coated, sprayed with acrylic lacquer and baked in a 300 °F (149 °C) degree oven. Fisher's rustproofing was faulty. Failure to penetrate a gap between front fenders and cowl allowed moist debris and salt to rust the untreated steel, and trapped air prevented coating inside the tops of the front fenders, which on early Vegas had no protective liners.[8] The finance department had rejected liners as they would have added a $2.28 unit cost. After GM spent millions replacing thousands of corroded fenders under warranty, Chevrolet installed stopgap plastic deflectors in late 1973 and full plastic liners in 1974. Rust also damaged the rocker panels and door bottoms, the area beneath the windshield, and the body above the rockers. It sometimes seized the front suspension cam bolts, preventing alignment work, necessitating removal with a cutting torch and replacement by all-new parts.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Saw another new unplated E today, also a new Accord, 2x new ES, and a new A6 loaner car.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591
    I saw an new Accord Sport today and must say, its a big improvement on the last model. Honda seems to have put on their rally caps.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    It looks a lot better, the styling is refined. I saw a brand new Civic last night too, the cheapo looking edge seems to be off it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I noticed one, too. I thought Honda was phasing out the badges but I noticed the Sport badge on it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited February 2013
    Another new Accord tonight, the brakes work well on these, as this one looked like it wanted to plow into a line of stopped traffic, braking just in time. Also saw a dirty dark red Tesla, a Dart, and another new unplated white W212 E-class with pano, couldn't tell the model but not a Bluetec.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,368
    I've been wondering when I'd see the new little Dodges since the competition from Ford and Chevy are everywhere. Yesterday I saw two new Darts, the first was black with those damnable black wheels and sported an R/T badge (I think, it was pretty small).

    The second was a nice bright blue.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I saw a Dart yesterday as well. I spotted about 4 new Fusions and I keep seeing the same Suzuki Kazashi.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For whatever reason I very, very rarely see any Darts. They simply don't sell here in Potomac, MD. DC, too.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I haven`t seen any on the road yet, I think they`re too new still? When did thwey come out, about 3 months ago?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >very rarely see any Darts

    It may be that they don't stand out when I see one usually from the rear. I recognized one a couple weeks ago on the interstate downtown. In black. Looked okay. Then I realized it was next to a black Focus, a new one. Their rears look similar other than the Focus has Sonata syndrome and is overstyled. The width of the Dart rear or the fenders make it look diminutive; the taillights on the Focus make it look dominant. Dart rear needs more ooooomph visually.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Isn't DC kind of like the west coast - a mostly import town? Bad news for Detroit, because regardless of what people may personally think about gov workers and contractors, they tend to be a highly educated workforce, which means they tend to be consumer decision leaders rather than followers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Import friendly I suppose. Not many manufacturing plants, lots of foreign diplomats, and a transient population. We do see a lot of livery cars on K street and on Capitol Hill, and cabs. Mix of stuff.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited February 2013
    Isn't DC kind of like the west coast - a mostly import town?

    DC to Boston is like that - coast to about 150 miles west. Highly educated, leaders instead of followers, et al.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    Was taking the dog for a long walk and it looks like neighbor bought a new one.

    Looked better out in the daylight vs at the auto show. Rear fenders actually look a bit muscular. I still think the rear looks like a Genesis but that's a handsome car as well.

    Moonroof is tiny, that's a let down when the Optima has a huge dual roof.

    Saw the new 2 screen Nav. Bottom half is touch screen, upper screen shows the map supposedly, smart solution to easy interface with no finger prints.

    Thumbs up. Honda is trying again.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Still not a fan of touchscreens, for the fingerprint issue. I am just too OCD. I do agree the Accord is a lot nicer looking than the previous one, more refined.

    Saw an X1 today, looked barely taller than the Prius in front of it. It's really a wagon.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    I'm looking forward to sitting in the X1 at the next car show. Not enough headroom in a 3er, but like smaller/cheaper than X3. Get an X1 with rwd and (possibly) NO sunroof. Big hit to resale value, I know, but I like my headroom.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I just can't deal with scrolling to one letter at a time. Give me a full keyboard.

    Took a road trip in an Audi S4 convertible and it took us 20 minutes to find the address for a Subaru dealer, for 2 reasons:

    * Audi actually removes Subaru dealers from their POI database (what if your wife owns one?)
    * Entering the street address manually was a one-letter-at-a-time affair

    Voice recognition is better so hopefully you can avoid that in newer Audis, but otherwise give me a touch screen any day.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's more of a small hatchback than a wagon, even.

    My kids are tall, but my 13 year old said it was not a car for tall people.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...blue Chevrolet Spark on Rising Sun Avenue near Cottman in NE Philly.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Had my car in for a couple of adjustments this morning - spent an hour at the dealer, sat in everything on the floor. Kind of amused that the CLS appears to have basic C-class HVAC controls. The C really does feel smaller and lighter than my E, not to mention less equipped. But not bad, the interior materials seemed nice enough. Sat in a new S63 with a 150K sticker - ooh boy.

    Also saw 2 Tesla sedans, one parked at the MB dealer, the other at an alignment shop.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Acura RDX sales are strong now that dealers have inventory to sell.

    Spotted a new Range Rover, man that thing has presence...

    Also the Acura dealer nearby has a silver RLX on display, nice looking car in person. In a 2002 Lexus LS430 kinda way...

    Audi is on fire around here. I have seen more late model A6's A7's, Q5 3.0T's and RS4's around here than BMW 3-series. Although the brand new 3-series is becoming a little more common.

    Neighbor down the street got an XC60 - "R" design in a cool electric blue color. Had a first gen MDX (2001 - 2002 with the single exhaust port) before this.

    Saw a few revamped Honda Civic sedans as well. The new tail is pretty upscale looking. Also saw a few ILX's, i think the lease deals on those are helping...
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Yeah I see the new 2013 Civics here too. They did a good job with the refresh as other than the car's general shape, it does not look much like the 2012 Civic.

    It's funny because I see 2012 models on the road and they do seem plain compared to the 2013's. The 2012 looks like a design that could have come out in 2001, it's so dull. I've never seen a manufacturer do a big refresh like this only 1 year after a full redesign. Gotta give Honda credit for listening to the criticizm but on the other hand it makes you wonder what they were thinking in the first place? The reputation they earned from the last 20 years is not enough to carry a new model into sales record books amid the competitive small car market today.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I like the theory that the 2012 Civic was decontented as not to compete with the ILX - but I guess that doesn't hold as much water in Canada. The 12 really does have a bland cheap look to it, even the exterior plastic just doesn't look up to snuff. Really bad planning, I wonder what it cost them.

    Saw a Fisker Karma on the road not long ago.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    'Problems' need to be defined in order to interpret that graph.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    My wife has a 2013 Escape and the lower front control arms look awful because the are pretty big, so you notice them.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If your's has "rust" maybe you can head over that way and reassure folks.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    I may have posted about that over there already.
    Maybe there will be a Customer Satisfaction program to address it.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thanks!
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,368
    Last winter I bought an '01 BMW 3-Series convertible and it looks like I may have started a trend to convertibles in my nabe as this winter three new flip-tops have appeared. One is even older than my 330CiC, it's a Geo Metro 3 banger bought by a guy who drives mostly big pickups (still has his long-bed Ford F150).

    The other two are brand new, one is a Volkswagen Eos with the folding hardtop. It looks pretty sharp in black but it's one of the few convertibles I've seen that actually looks better w the top raised.

    The other newbie is a dark grey Camaro SS with a black top. I'm not a big fan of the current Camaro h/t because the squashed roof makes it look like a cartoon version of the original Camaro. The convertible rook which is a tad higher (at least it looks it) looks much nicer to me. IMO the car looks great with the top up or down.

    For an area where the cars of choice are Camrys, Lacrosses and Grand Marquis that's progress! :shades:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...another Chevrolet Spark, silver, outside the gym I go to last night.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saw one today on the Whitehurst Freeway.

    Before that, a new Accord sedan, and a new Accord coupe.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Saw an Azera this morning too (like the Genesis, seems a lot of local Koreans choose these), and my first wrecked ATS, near a customized W212 E63 and a Testarossa with a lightweight front end:

    image
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Saw my first ATS this morning. Other than the swoop in the headlights, there is very little differentiation from it and the CTS. Still looks something that came from the same designer who had nothing but a ruler and a block of Butter for inspiration.

    Also saw a loaded new Mazda 6 Touring this morning. What a gorgeous looking car.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...black Buick Verrano turn left from Unruh onto Bingham and then left onto Fanshawe from Bingham in NE Philly.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Ouch on the Ferrari and the E63. At first I thought it was one of your nose-to-nose photo shoots with your E class and a Testarossa you acquired :shades:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I'll admit I like the Testarossa, but I'd actually prefer one in white - very 80s. Would match the new car, too :shades: ">
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