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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Spy shots have been zoomed up too close.

    Looks better in these shots:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/28/2013-toyota-rav4-la-2012/

    Anyone else think the shnooz looks better on the Auris/RAV4 vs. the Camry/Avalon?
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    Just catching up, funny to see that a few of you were the euro midwest recently. I was in Switzerland again for 3 weeks; my company is based there so I go a few times a year. Noteworthy sighting this time was the new CLS shooting brake thing, in white. Looks nice, not practical, and the local going rate is CHF 125000. The swiss don't finance cars, BTW.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    That was me. I saw several shooting brakes in suburban Stuttgart, and an AMG in the fancy showroom attached to the MB Museum.

    What I noticed in dirty money respitory/tax avoider paradise (but so clean and orderly and easy to get around) Zurich was Astons - I think I saw multiples of every model, some of them parked amusingly. Lots of high end Porsches too. No worries about ~$8/gallon gas.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    Reminds me of a Mazda from the side.

    Almost anything looks better than the front end of the Avalon. This new Toyota corporate face loses something on bigger cars.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    image
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    Zurich is not a low tax Canton. At all.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I see a bit of Escape, but then again when the Escape came out I saw a freshened RAV4.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    Compared to Zug?

    Money doesn't rush in because of the scenery.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited November 2012
    I see Mitsu in the front profile. The car looks alright, but it's not really grabbing me - but maybe that's just Toyota styling philosophy. I'm sure it will sell better with the more conventional tailgate set up though. The inside seems much improved.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    Saw a new ES today, driver was a 20-something looking male.

    But...car had the factory adhesives all over it, and driver was wearing a dealer uniform. So, the car was just out being fueled or tested. Still, probably one of the youngest ever to drive a new ES - even if the ads show drivers not much older :shades:
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    Actually we are... this is an article about the JPN model coming here. It looked similar but with what I could tell, it had better lines.

    link title

    Odie
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lift gate is a big improvement over the wrong-way door that blocked the curb and need too much space to open all the way.

    Toyota should make a power liftgate standard just to emphasize how much easier the new one will be in daily use.

    The 2GR V6 is gone, sadly. :(
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Toyota should get rid of those gated shifters. I automatically turn my nose up at any vehicle with those.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Shuttle Hybrid costs about $5k less than the Toyota Prius V in Japan

    Sounds good. Unfortunately the C Max is way below my expectations for real-world MPG, so nice to have more options in that class.

    Would also like to see a Mazda5 SkyActiv (gas or diesel).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How 'bout a manual? Better yet, a V6 manual?

    Works for the Lotus Evora. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In a nice granite metallic color, very sharp.

    I gotta say, the Audi style LED lights look better on a squared off car like this one than they do even on Audis.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Unfortunately the C Max is way below my expectations for real-world MPG

    My wife noticed a bunch of reports like that doing a net search on the C-Max last night. She was especially bummed that some reviewer couldn't get better mileage even using hypermiling techniques.

    So the bank account will be solvent for a while longer - thank you Ford. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Hyundai Sorrento and a Mercedes M-Class in a collision at Oxford Avenue and Tyson in NE Philly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Spotted on CR's test track:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU7irtnhjss&feature=plcp

    Honda seemed to address their primary gripes.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited November 2012
    Lemko, Who won?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    Hyunkia is so desperate to be German, they haven't just hired a German designer, they are now designing cars by osmosis :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorento is a Kia, actually. Hyundai has the Santa Fe (and SF Sport).

    Kia just updated the powertrains, but it only got a face lift. Now the DI 4 banger is standard and the 3.3l DI V6 is optional.

    The Benz has a lot more mass but I bet both protected their passengers rather well.

    As for styling, Sorento reminds me of an MDX without any of the extraneous "styling". Not sure but I think it was designed before Schreyer's influence came in to play, yet it's aged well.

    Can't really compare vehicles with such different pricing but Sorento does more than 3x the sales volume of the ML, and that was before the powertrain upgrades.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Silver, this AM.

    These seem smaller than I expected. Maybe it's the roofline.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd say the M-Class came out ahead though both vehicles were a wreck.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorento 5 star crash test:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfA0DYWoqvw

    Passenger cell is amazingly intact.

    ML in the euro NCAP:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLcza8aDr0

    You see some more deformation in the body (behind rear door) but to be fair this test is offset and performed at slightly higher speed.

    But as mentioned earlier the ML has more mass and that's likely the biggest factor at play, that and the angle of the collision.

    Hopefully both parties walked away from the crash. Mercedes does engineer its SUVs for bumper height compatibility.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, fin, tell the truth, which do you think is worse?

    Lexus LF-LC:
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/29/lexus-lf-lc-concept-la-2012/

    Benz Ener G:
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/29/mercedes-benz-ener-g-force-la-2012/

    Didn't know the Vehicross designers were still employed. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    Can't really compare them, but I will compare them anyway...LOL

    Accord does more than 3x sales of the S65, and that was before the powetrain upgrades :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    Well, to be fair, the ridiculous SUV thing looks like a plastic shell on wheels - just one step up from a cgi rendering. It's not an actual car. The Exner-designed Alien face is closer to a car. So, one looks like a cross between an old Durango and the Ford Bronco concept injected with fat, the other looks like a 61 Plymouth and a movie monster had a child. Hard to choose when both are bad designs.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Spotted one about an hour ago cruising down my street. My local PD has on Caprice PPV in the fleet. I wonder if this detective unit belongs to my town.

    I'll have to ask my neighbor the DARE officer. He drives a lifted Jeep Cherokee in black and white with DARE logos.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Point remains, the Sorento has been a sustained hit.

    Doesn't matter how we spin it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    But how is that relevant to them crashing?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice dodge. ;)

    This one's a real car on the M-B display at LA:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/29/smart-forjeremy-la-2012/

    Mercedes-Benz Cars Advanced Design Studios collaborated but no idea how that got approved to be on their show stand.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hyunkia is so desperate to be German

    How is that relevant to them crashing?

    I brought up crash tests that were on topic, you produced your (reliable) insults towards Asian brands.

    If you don't like the direction the conversation took, then maybe you should not have taken it in that direction.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    edited November 2012
    And why should you get your panties in a bunch when I make a joke? Did I spit on your mother or kick your dog? No, I made a light crack about a car company that has no connection to your personal or professional life. Lighten up, Francis.

    Seeing as Hyunkia in fact hired a German designer to help get them out of the aesthetic dark ages, it is kind of a relevant joke, too. There's definitely some aspiration there.

    And if you don't like my posts, skip em :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    I like that just for the name, makes me think of Clarkson and how his head must explode when simply viewing that ridiculous thing.

    MB can do a lot worse. Remember this bizarre thing, apparently patterned a goldfish? I bet brands from a certain region with a fetish for faces and animal resemblances must have been jealous:

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    I'm fine, you're the one who got all defensive about whether or not we were being relevant.

    The ugliest designs in the world, right now, are coming out of Mercedes-Benz studios.

    Edit: they should hire Schreyer back!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    edited November 2012
    So what you're saying is, MB has bought Lexus? Or Lexus bought MB? I'm looking at the actual roadgoing products coming out of the brand, and although not much is really timeless or elegant (which can be said for the industry as a whole), I don't see anything worse than the competition. Not close.

    For all of the unsightly presence of that still nonexistent SUV, it doesn't quite yet get the furrowed brows and cringing of the Alien/Exner theme.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    Your response didn't even make sense.

    The sad thing is that's the direction where Mercedes thinks the G wagon should go.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    What? You say MB is making the ugliest concepts. I say Lexus is trumping them. Think about it.

    I've seen nothing saying that concept has any actual influence on a future production vehicle.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited November 2012
    Hey you two - you sound like two old ladies!!!

    fintail will now be know as Frances and juice will be Josephine. Ladies - take your bickering to the waterobics class and make sure you don't bust a hip climbing out of your golf carts.

    Besides, your quarrel took the focus off of my sighting of a Chevy Caprice Detective.

    :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LF-CC just got a green light.

    Let's hope some of those others don't and leave it at that. ;)

    http://www.insideline.com/lexus/lf-cc/videos/lexus_lf-cc_12-ps-as_927121.html

    A bold face worked for Audi, and now it's working for Lexus too. There are 2 people in the world who don't like it, but they'd never be caught dead in a new Lexus anyway. And don't even buy new cars.

    Meanwhile people who actually might buy a GS and buying at 400% of the pre-spindle rate.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You mean the G8 clone?

    Wonder if the police department sells them at auction when they're done. Of course those cars idle a lot and are probably beat beyond recognition by the time they're done with them.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Depends on the municipality.

    My town replaces about 2 cruisers a year. They get passed down to other departments. IIRC, they paint them all black and they go to building and health departments that run them about 2 years and then the DPW and rec department get them for another year or so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Makes me want to retire and get a job with the Rec dept. I'd rock a blacked out cop car, heck yeah! :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    edited November 2012
    And the LF-A got a green light too, about year 2000 or so :shades:

    2 people who don't like it? Do you read other forums? The "different for the sake of being different because we've become so invisibly bland that people are falling asleep" front end has been chided and questioned by more than a few. If anything, admit it is a desperation move.

    The pre-Exner GS was selling at what, a sad three figures at best per month? Of course it will sell better, as it is a new design to replace then ancient old one, and it is likely a far superior car even with the defective aesthetics. History has more than one car selling despite questionable styling additions.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's probably you and lemko in those other forums too. :P

    GS has the same engine as the old one, actually dropped the V8 option, and sales are up 472% for October, and you think all those owners think it's ugly?

    Please.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Diplomatic plates.

    Probably the German ambassador.

    KIDDING. :D
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Makes me want to retire and get a job with the Rec dept. I'd rock a blacked out cop car, heck yeah!

    Actually our rec dept. doesn't have too many employees. I think the director (who is elected) gets the 5 year old clapped out cruiser.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hoops season starts next week. I'll stick with coaching. Worth driving a minivan to teach kids. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,137
    edited November 2012
    Nobody bought the V8 either. It was pointless. Looks like the new hybrid might fill that gap, along with being insanely priced.

    It's new, with nice interior and much nicer ICE. I've looked at both cars up close (remember, I was giving very positive remarks about the metal trim), and the new one is in a different world. The old one screamed "2005", which might not be the best thing in 2012.

    Many owners of ugly cars don't think their cars are ugly.
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