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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I think I have seen C-class for something like $269 or 289 now - but albeit that's with something like 4K down, and it isn't exactly a loaded car.

    There's so much brand equity, they can get away with the downward movement, at least for awhile. I've also seen some cheap Infiniti lease commercials (aging G) and Lexus seems to have lowered prices a little too.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    mbusa.com is showing C250 for $349 with $4143 at signing for 30 months.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, and the mileage allowances are ridiculously low.

    "Hey, what are you doing at the bus stop? Why aren't you driving the new 3-Series you just leased to the office?"

    "Uh, I used-up all my mileage for the year and it's only February."
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,513
    From my looking lately I am now on the email list from the local BMW dealer.

    Just got one yesterday with their come on ads. 328xi for $349/39 with $3,500 down. And a 5 series for $449 (I think the same term).

    so doing my quick and dirty conversion, roughly $450 + tax and nothing but DMV stuff out the door, and you can be styling in a new BMW.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,513
    Mileage on those is usually 10K/year. For some of us, that is still enough!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Local special was ~4K, 24 months, low mileage, something around 269-289. But the local dealer sometimes does have sweetheart deals - over the summer had an E350 with similar down and terms for 489 - not even an end of year deal.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I could deal with that. I don't put that on both my cars combined. Any eventual next car for me might be something like that, if I suspect the deal is good enough.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Similar terms here were on a 535i for 489, I think. Not a bad deal. You're probably just barely covering depreciation.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,760
    BMW 5-series has a special 24-month lease... Cheap, considering the short term...

    Can't agree with it being sad that you can lease a BMW or Mercedes cheap... That's the only way I can drive one.. Screw "brand image"... they are cars..

    And, I've got stellar credit, thank you! ;)

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    a new Interceptor Utility.
    and a brief conversation while I was waiting for my wife to finish her goodbye's.
    I was stopped in the road at the and of a driveway, with my right turn signal on.
    The funny thing was the cop was from my town, but I was in the next town over.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    The image thing seems to be more of a NA construct than anything. In Europe, the brands are respected, but not instantly thought of as luxury. It all depends on the model and how it is equipped. These lease specials seem to have been going on for awhile, brand equity is still alive, sales are huge - the market accepts.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    A blue BMW 3-Series followed by a red BMW 1-Series on Terwood Road in Montgomery County, PA.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    328xi for $349/39 with $3,500 down. And a 5 series for $449 (I think the same term).

    So cheap. Too bad I didn't like the new 5. Think I'd look at that AWD Bimmer if I were the leasing type.

    I drive 2 cars (one daily commuter, one weekend/family car) so the 10k miles limit wouldn't be an issue for me.

    I don't see how the math adds up. $50k car, in 3 years the residual is half or less, where's the $25k worth of payments? Even for the 5er the totals aren't even $20k.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Spotted at Washington Circle this AM.

    Seeing a bunch of these now.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Saw a new ES today, as it was a couple blocks from the dealer, I suspect it was going to or from. Also had a new GS park way out by me at Costco.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,760
    3 years the residual is half or less

    What if the residual is 63%, and there is a 6% cash incentive on the front end?

    That's how the math works... ;)

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Saw another new Fusion - from a distance I thought it might be a Tesla or something. Looks like more than it is.

    Regarding leases, vastly inflated residuals also help.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    2 Fusions today, new Escape, and an Equus going slow on 405.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    ALG handed out awards and no Bimmer was in the Top 10. Those started at 51% residual, so the 3 and 5 would have to be lower than that.

    Of course BMW can set artificially high residuals and then take a loss down the road.

    I think they're trying to take the lux sales crown, but long term they will have to take a hit some where.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's right, the standard engine goes from 5 liters to just 2, albeit with turbochargers. I just had to check it out.

    AWD is also coming, but those were not yet available. So I drove one with the new engine to see how it behaves in this vehicle, and to compare to BMW and Mercedes' 2 liter turbos.

    Land Rover has used these engines in the popular Evoque, but it's basically an EcoBoost Ford powertrain, used in a variety of vehicles, from performance cars to SUVs.

    Hop in and the ambience is still very much Jag, with suede headliner, covered pillars, real wood veneers (XJ has nicer burled walnut though), wool carpets, etc. Seats were a bit slippery for my tastes, but it made getting in and out pretty easy.

    Press the start button and the shifter knob pops up neatly. The vents also power open. Neat, if a bit gimmicky.

    Visibility is not very good. Thick pillars, chopped windows, and a high belt line make you want to check if you get cameras to park the thing (mine had them).

    Short drive was not enough to leave lasting impressions about performance, but while it was quiet as a tomb, the whole car was unsettled. I wondered if the air pressure in the tires were way above spec?

    Auto Start/Stop surprised me a bit, smoother than BMW's similar system, but not as seamless as a hybrid's. I guess they have to score (much) higher on CAFE, so let's get used to it.

    The 2.0T reminded me of the similar engine in the Benz C class - doesn't perform as well as BMW's under-rated engine, but much smoother.

    Will be interesting to see how customers respond to a tiny displacement turbo engine in a prestige brand like Jaguar.

    Hopefully the ride settles down, though. As is it's just a really nice facade on an average platform.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,513
    I drove by my local BMW dealer recently, and like every time I do, I was astounded by the huge number of new cars they have there. Lot after lot of them (and another dozen inside the palace!)

    Someone must be buying a lot of them. They even have plenty of the real expensive ones you rarely see out on the road.

    Wish that money train would run through my house!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Ya, one of the company parking lots that I walk thru a couple of times a day has a nice new triple black 535i in it. I coupld look at that thing all afternoon... What a killer looking car, a complete 180 from the earlier mishmash design...
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    BMW is indeed selling well. But I believe they offered their dealers some pretty good incentive cash to take on inventory before the end of the year which also may explain part of the dealer lot inventory build up. I guess it's that sales race with MB thing?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    WTOP was talking about this on the radio today, how big the incentives are now. GM just revealed their new pickups and those are at the top of the list, along with lux cars.

    Saw a new ES hybrid today. On that car why not go with the hybrid, really.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    It was a nice shade of metallic red.
    Pretty good looking.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Driving on K street. Probably a green lobbyist.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Freshly plated Elantra GT, white, pano - not bad at all.

    Freshly plated A8 - to think that a mere 4 weeks I was zooming across Germany in one. I want to go back. Also saw an S400 Hybrid, rare bird.

    Rode in a friend's Prius C that he bought about 7 months ago. Actually seems adequate for city driving, but highway merging is another story - you have to strangle the poor thing. I don't like the gauges. I guess that's the price you pay for mileage - unless you live in a first world country and can get a small diesel car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    C works well for its intended environment, at half the cost of an EV. Back seat is usable, too. Center mounted gauges are dorky, though, even on a Z8.

    Its achilles heel is the tiny fuel tank - just 9.5 gallons. I bet the low fuel idiot light goes on once you've used 7 gallons or so. Ridiculous.

    Elantra GT would make my short list for a small hatch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One of the big boys, LWB and high top, on Washington Circle.

    Also spotted a new Accord. Subtle changes but much improved.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I suppose that environment is one with no acceleration concerns, and no hills. It's not just the location of the gauges that annoy, but the gauge itself. It seems too small, with a lot of wasted space.

    My friend was about 50 miles into a tank of gas, and his range was down to about 250 miles. Not a good road trip car. Oh, and the windows fog up easily, have to keep the HVAC going at a highish speed constantly. But, I guess that's what you get for the cheapest hybrid.

    I think the range on my rental A8 upon fillup was something like 1280kms!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The speedo gauge doesn't have much news to report. ;)

    I bet if they adds a heads-up display it will beam the MPG on the screen instead of the MPH. :D

    My Garmin tracks how much time my Miata sits idling, though, and it's a *LOT* of the time. Would be nice if they added a smooth start/stop to it. Well implemented that would get half the benefit of a hybrid for much lower cost.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I suppose on roads above 50mph, speeding is a rarity. I wish HUD was more common, I have loved it on the BMWs I have driven, awesome feature for those few of us who like to watch the road.

    The A8 I drove had stop/start. Annoying in a land of uncontrolled intersections when you want to turn left onto a crowded arterial in a car the size of a house. I could have disabled it, but I left it on and used it as a skills challenge. I don't know if it helped mileage.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    DC is very flat, used to be a swamp until they back-filled it.

    Go 90 minutes west and you hit some ~4000 ft peaks, but even those seem like hills compared to the mountains out west.

    I went to Taos once and could barely breath at the 11,819 ft peak of Taos Ski Valley. *gasp*

    Any how, the Prius C has plenty of power for DC. You rarely go over 35. Even the Beltway is only 55.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    My friend drove the C cross country, GA to WA. Said it wasn't too troublesome until he hit Montana, then he'd have semis riding his bumper. He recently drove it to eastern WA - said it is suited to the right lane, and on some higher elevation longer inclines, it was wheezing a little.

    Many areas of the Seattle area are very hilly - one reason I don't have an urge to drive a stick here. Too much work. The biggest plus to that Prius here is slow dense traffic, where it is in its element.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow what a poor choice of cars to take cross country! Is he sane? ;)

    I doubt a Smart ForTwo would have been any better. Or a Fiesta, Yaris, or Fit, or Versa, etc.

    At altitude I'd spec out a turbo if I had to go subcompact, so maybe a Sonic with the 1.4T.

    But for a long drive like that, you go for the longest wheelbase possible, great seats, a V6 at least, and a bladder busting fuel tank capacity for big time range, so you only stop when you choose to.

    The C doesn't check off anything on my wish list for a trip car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    It was a one way move to a new job, and that was his existing car. Not much choice. But at least his fuel bill was low.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2012
    Got it, once in the car's lifetime, that's enough. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    Oh I dunno. I drove all over in a VW Bug in the late 60s/early 70s and survived. Builds character. :shades:

    I'd even entertain a longish trip in a Miata so long as I didn't have to get on any freeways.

    (What would be "longish" in a Miata anyway - could you tolerate six hours?)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More than an hour with the top down and you start to get "wind burn". With ear plugs you can go a little longer.

    I took a 3 hour drive with a buddy and he was all gung-ho, but about 90 minutes in he caved and wanted the top up.

    If I had to I would, but there are better choices for a long road trip than a short wheelbase roadster.

    I'd love to drive to Deal's Gap but that's about 8 hours from here.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Saw a Gran Coupe this morning - I think it looks pretty nice, should get some sales from the execucriminal set. Also a new Accord that I think was a base model (rear appeared to have spaces for dual exhaust, but this car only had one tip), and an unplated new ES heading towards the dealer.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,471
    My cousin and aunt came up from Sacramento to see us in Seattle, about 800 miles one way. At his request they took his MG Midget. Greater love has no mother.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably took a year, with all the repairs along the way, and they aged 7 years in the process. ;)
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,471
    Probably took a year, with all the repairs along the way, and they aged 7 years in the process.

    Yeah, and when he got tired of fixing it he sold it and bought an Audi 100. Some people have no luck at all.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    He knows how to pick 'em.

    Have him pick a stock, then ... short sale!
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,389
    I once drove from NYC to Denver and back by way of Dallas, New Orleans and SCarolina and back in a Fiat Spider 1600. The top was down most of the way.

    I'd love to do that again in a convertible, it's a lot better way to see the country than from one of those lumbering RVs. :shades:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    Yeah, but your neck sure gets sore looking up all time. What are you - 8" above the pavement?

    Minivans really are about perfect for road tripping. I still think that Murano Cross Cabriolet thing would be good too.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,933
    Minivans really are about perfect for road tripping.

    Less than 9 days before we start out for Florida in the Town & Country.

    Wife told me the other night she broke the power folding 3rd row. Hopefully I can fix that before we have to leave so the 6-year-old can sit back there to rock the PS3 while the 2-year-old enjoys his 125th viewing of Elmo Sings With the Stars in the 2nd row.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2012
    My van has lousy tires and I don't want to get stuck on the drive out of Michigan and back, so we're taking the Subaru over Christmas to TN. It's got pretty new shoes, but feels a bit cramped. The heated seats will be nice though.

    Thought I spotted a new Prius an hour ago but the "window sticker" was just a blurb for the local animal shelter taped to the side window.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,471
    Have him pick a stock, then ... short sale!

    Gosh, the only time he gave me a stock tip was in 2000 when he was recommending Enron stock as a hot item.

    A final chapter in his automotive exploits is that he got rid of the Audi and bought a strippo Gremlin -- the color of Welch's grape juice. It was ugly, gutless, and had the leading edge technology of an ox cart. But he finally had a car that was reliable and I think he decided it was worth it.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,760
    A good friend of mine has driven his MGA to Key West and back... a couple of times.. (about 1300 miles, each way)...

    There was a coast-to-coast trip by his club.... He decided to drive his pickup as the support vehicle... but, a couple dozen did the whole trip in their MGs... They stopped locally for the night... My favorite MGA had a trailer made from an MG rear end.... complete with a working beer tap!

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