Honda Civic vs. Toyota Corolla

camrylover · February 2005

My point is that I have been let down by hondas and just am sick of their trans problem. As for attracting the younger generation....I don't see anything wrong about that. This auto market is highy competitive and its just not with cars but every other aspects of life that you can think of. Hey...i have no problem with innovation. Kudos to the innovator!!!!
I am a young buyer myself ...just a college student and I am heavily biased on Toyota because I have had no probs with them and my family has had them for many many years of quality and dependable rides. I am a camry owner myself. I have the 2005 Camry XLE and before that a 1988 Camry which I might add, is still running strong with 298K miles on it. As for the honda...trans problems begin once it has reached 45K with both the hondas that my family had. It's weird but thats the truth. My spouse is considering buying the Corolla and I have test driven it and the Civic just to see how it is in comparison. I am just sooooo totally in love with the Corolla. It has a nice peppy engine and handling is just sooo awesome and its quiet with nicer interior than the civic imo.
This is not my forum. I belong some where else.
Anyway...i am out.

cutedh · February 2005

I am totally with you about the Toyota Corolla. I especially like the S. Just test drove it a few days back and just like you I am in love with the car. My friend has the Civic and after test driving the corolla, he is enamored by it. He would like to sell his Civic for the Corolla, but is not very sure since he will be losing some money in the process. He too looked at it and called it a Baby Lexus. I like the Corolla better too because of its nicer interior and peppy engine and it is a cute car.

carzzz · February 2005

camrylover
toyota had made many excellent quality cars, nowadays the toyota build quality has declined(IMO)examples: Hesitation/Transmission/e-throttle, Engine-sludge, lack highway stability, safety features particular on lower trim, etc! though they have great fit-&-finish! btw, Just wondering does your camry has any hesitation?

cutedh
2005 Corolla might be a better car than 2005 Civic! It would be interesting to see the improvement on 2006 Civic! example: 2006 Civic Si has 200hp(detune of a rsx type s engine) while Corolla XRS has 170hp! who is better?

camrylover · February 2005

carzzz....Give me a break. Lets talk about the 2005 corolla S and the 2005 civic EX. Both of the cars have approximately 130 HP. The Corolla feels and rides a lot better than the civic. The corolla's engine is also more responsive. If you are talking about HP pleazzzzz........does that mean a car is better because it has more HP. In that case...I could say that the mustang is better than the civic.
Its the quality, ride, smoothness and reliability that matter. Both cars have them with and an edge to the corolla imho.
By the way...my 2005 XLE Camry has no hesitation and I have talked to other camry owners/friends and they don't have hesitation problems either.

carzzz · February 2005

it's good that your car does not hesitate! I agree with you that Civic lacks low-end torque, which make it felt less reponsive! The Civic only has 110 lbft of torque on lower trim(4 more on EX)! Corolla has 125 lbft... definitely corolla wins on this! 2006 Civic Si(2004 RSX type S) has 142 lbft while Corolla XRS only 127 lbft... Torque is the power that make the car accelerate, not hp!
BTW my opinion to camry and corolla are that they have:
smooth ride ( lacking driving dynamic/feeback + mushy ride)
quiet (tooooo isolated from outside, i would prefer slightly more road noise and wind noise because of realistic "driving")
noisy(toooo much engine noise both inside and outside, is good that i do not need any amplifier and make it "sounds" like a muscle car). It is very funny when people hear the engine roar and look toward you, they just discover that it is merely a "toyota" without modification!

cutedh · February 2005

Carzzzz....you are entitled to your own opinion and whatever you said......yeah whatever.....
I know it is not a Camry forum but I guess ppl buying Camry's must reallly like the Camry's mushy ride as you so put it. Those ppl also made the camry the # 1 best selling car in the US.

chidoro · February 2005

As for the honda...trans problems begin once it has reached 45K with both the hondas that my family had. It's weird but thats the truth.

That is weird. The Honda's that have gone through my family include a '89 accord w/ 227k(before it was sold), a '92 accord w/155k (also sold), a '98 civic w/ 123k, a '01 civic w/ 51k, a '00 crv w/ 70k, and a '03 accord (V6) w/ 15k. Not one transmission problem. No slips, nothing. I don't anticipate ever seeing it as a problem as my '98 civic runs terrifically smooth.
It sounds as if you were horribly unlucky. Given that, I would be miffed as well but I'm afraid your experiences w/ Honda are unusual at best.

carzzz · February 2005

Facts:
-Many CRs claim Corolla/Matrix has a noisy engine! (it is already noisy even at idling rpm!)
-Both Civic & Accord are Top 10 Best Selling Vehicles in the US! (There must be a reason! Just wondering why did Corolla made it?)
-Honda is more of a "driver" car vs Toyota is more of a "passengers" car because of driving dynamic, feedback, etc (When many people cross-shop between a toyota/honda, they would pick honda instead because of those reasons!)
-Different drivers have different taste! There will never be a invalid opinion toward a car!
-2003 economy sedan comparison test, Edmunds pick Civic as #1 while Corolla was 5th...

blueiedgod · February 2005

Wow, this discussion has picked up some steam.

I had a rental Corolla, the new generation corolla. I was not impressed by drving dynamics. I leaned in the corners too much, and when going over bumps, the car would move sideways as if it were a boat. But then again, I have been spoiled by Honda. With its tight but compliant ride, with controlled suspension moves and almost lean free corenering.
It all started with an 85 Honda Civic DX, which I sold for $1500 in 1995, with 350,000 miles on the clock. I has not missed a beat. The car is still running. When I visit my parents I see it in the neighborhood.
I test drove MAtrix XRS before I bought the Civic, and although I really liked the way it drove, Civic Si was still better.

The new generation of Honda engines, the K-series, currently available on the Civic Si, RSX, RSX-S, Accord, Element, CR-V, and TSX, have conqured Honda's inherent low torque poblem. I am impressed, even 2 years after buying my Si, how much torque I have on tap. The new, redesigned Civic is alleged to employ K-series thoughout the Civic line, not just the cream of the crop Si.

Corolla XRS is about the same as 1999 Civic Si, in engine and suspension design. I would say being 5 years behind the leader is something Toyota is used to. Honda has moved on from the high strung engines of the 90's to the efficiantly designed engines of the 21's centruy, mainly with the introduction of i-VTEC.

Nobody is attacking Toyota quality, but quality does not have to be boring. Quality can be very exciting...

Like I stated before, Honda has stepped up to the plate and extended warranties on all of the affected V6 vehicles with automatic transmission to 100,000 miles. I think that is a very honorable thing to do for a company that is all about quality.

05corolla · February 2005

hi,i have 05 corolla s and i think your are pretty
much right about gas mileage.I am really disappointed ,because it is doing really low mpg.
i had 2002 rav 4 L which i trade with corolla so i could save some money on gas but i think i have made a bad decision ,But not totaly disapointed with corolla ,because the same corolla is doing almost 45 miles extra with the supreme gas . Also if you look at it the look and the interior of the
car. As far as i am concern about the dealer attitude that is just different with every dealer

thanks

carglow · February 2005

I don't think you'll have any luck suing over an "estimate".

It seems the Civic gets better "real world" mpg. I'm disappointed with my 21-22 mpg city mpg with my 05 Corolla automatic.

alpha01 · February 2005

Have you had the first oil change yet? Usually owners see a significant uptake after about 3000 miles of break-in, and the first oil change.

~alpha

chidoro · February 2005

I agree w/ alpha. The Corolla has a good rep for being miserly with fuel. I'd look at the numbers after your break-in period to see what you are truly getting.

scooter71 · March 2005

All-

Saturday I drove a 2005 Toyota Corolla CE 5-speed, rated at 41 MPG on the highway. It felt solid, and it drove almost silently. However, the driving position was very unusual and there was little leg room (I'm 6'2"). The interior, while tight, appeared to be very low end perhaps due to the expansiveness of monotone plastics with little texture.

I then drove a 2005 Honda Civic LX 5-speed, rated at 38 MPG on the highway. It was much less spartan inside, there was ample leg room, and the build while not as tight as the Toyota was better than the majority. There was more road noise than expected.

I bought the Civic, which is my fourth Honda. However I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Toyota to a shorter person on a trimmer budget.

alpha01 · March 2005

The Corolla CE competes with the Civic VP. The Civic LX competes with the LE, and that model has a much nicer interior IMO, than the Corolla CE. In that model, you would have found Lexus-style instrumentation, faux wood that is restrained and classy, IMO, and upgraded fabric vs. the CE.

The Civic LX 5M is about $1300 more than a typical Corolla CE 5M.

Dont get me wrong, CONGRATS, you got a great car, but I just found your choice of test drive comparisons a bit odd given one of your biggest issues was with the Corolla interior.

~alpha

scooter71 · March 2005

I sat in the LE but 5-speeds weren't available in my area. I found the faux wood to be very American car-ish (as in a '78 Sunbird or equivalent) and the plastic as visibly disappointing as the CE. I should've mentioned that in my first post, to your point.

Regardless, my biggest issue was with the lack of legroom and unusual seating position.

alpha01 · March 2005

Fair enough. I still think the instrumentation in the LE is 100x more attractive than the CE, though, and definitely as good as the Civic LX's.

~alpha

blueiedgod · March 2005

I am 6'0" and long time ago found that Honda's comapacts are the only compacts that fit me right. Honda has figured out what tall people need, ever since my first 1985 Honda Civic. My 88 Prelude has so much seat travel that I only use 80% of it. 89 Accord was just right, my 99 Civic fit me just right as well, and the 2002 Si fits like a glove. My girlfriend who is 5'0", on the other hand, feels at home in Fords. And I can't find a comfortable position in her Focus for the life of me.
Corolla, although roomy, has all the room where I don't need it, and no room where I do need it. What does a big trunk do for me, when I can't stretch my legs?

398lbft · March 2005

Couple of quick questions :

Is there a Civic or Honda/Acura thats comparable with the XRS or say the SE-R (Sentra not Altima)?

Is the XRS engine the same as the Lotus Elise engine ?

prosper · March 2005

yes toyota supplied them the engine but in no way shape or form can we hit that 0-60 in 4sec in the XRS....lol
your talking a bout a car that weights 1984 pounds and a engine that would turn that little care into a rocket... lol
ok lets look at it this way the else 6 gear ratio is close to a indy car gear ratio and b4 any one throws a rock at me let me explain; the 2nd 3rd and 4th gear are close to indy spec some final gear spec on indy cars are 3.697:1 and on the elise its 4.53:1 very close for a street sports car and im only going by US specs then u have the weight distribution indy cars are nearly perfect in that department front to rear %42/58lb i can get into more detail but theres no need theres no acura/honda that could go against the elise maybe the nsx but the only thing the nsx would really have over the elise is the handling but then again u also have to put a good driver in the drivers seat because i do know the gear ration on the nsx is even closer to some indy cars but the weight is what counts and the elise is a lot more lighter then then nsx but if we shaved off a few pound who knows the nsx has 1169 more pounds then the elise and thats a lot of weight.
and to get to your question i think so all those VVTI engines are nearly the same its the same engine that they used in the scions.
i dont even want to get into the sentra thing these new sentras are nice to look at but there performance band needs to be touched up.
(reason i used a indy car for comparison is because the elise is built very close to one).

i hope i answered your question.

john500 · March 2005

If the question is does Honda offer a sedan model of the Civic with a slightly higher horsepower engine than the Civic EX, no. The hatchback Civic SI and the coupe Acura RSX-S are Honda's 2005 model year competition with the Corolla XRS. The XRS engine is derived from the Yamaha tuned Celica GT-S engine. The XRS engine horsepower and torque output are slightly lower than the GT-S engine. The Lotus engine is from the same GT-S platform and is tuned for slightly more horsepower. As prosper noted, the significantly reduced vehicle weight of the Lotus Elise makes the 190 hp car competitive with much higher horsepower output cars (i.e. Mustang Cobras, Corvettes, S-2000's etc)

blueiedgod · March 2005

Couple of quick questions :

Is there a Civic or Honda/Acura thats comparable with the XRS or say the SE-R (Sentra not Altima)?

Is the XRS engine the same as the Lotus Elise engine ?

Yes, Civic Si is the 2 door equivalent to Toyota Corolla Matrix XRS. No, there is no high horse power 4 door Civic.

Yes, the legally imported Elise has the same Yamaha derived engine as Celica GT-s and Toyota Corolla XRS, Matrix XRS, Pontiac Vibe GT. But this is not the same engine that Elise won poeple's admiration overseas for years with. Those were 1.8 liter Honda/Acura Integra Type R engines. All of grey market Elise's would have Honda engine in them. Legally sold Elise's will have Yamaha/Toyota engine. I am not saying that this engine is a bad engine, but Integra Type R beats competition every time in its class, and it even takes on BMW. I am not aware of Toyota Celica GT-S winning too often.

w2323 · March 2005

Most of those features aren't in the cars we are looking at. As far as Honda being more diversified with all those other things they do. It makes me wonder how much r&d goes into their autos? I know they make a hell of a robot though!

I have a problem with the Civic because of one thing. The lower end model of the Civil lacks any options, they are just too plain. To get even a few options like power windows and doors etc. You have to move past 2 of the low end models to the lx. But they draw you into the dealership with the lost leaders at the bottom.

Another thing that kills me about the civic is the 14 inch tires in the base, whats with that???

The sohc compared to a dohc makes me wonder as well.

I'm still looking at a civic and a corolla and I'm trying my best to pick the civic because frankly I had a corolla and I hate buying the same car twice. But the civic is so damn plain.

Did you know for another $1000-1500.00 I can get a camry they have take home prices marked on camrys at our local dealership for 16k. Thats real pricing, I know because I've purchased 2 cars there

To bad I'm looking for mileage and I also own a camry right now (which I want to get rid of)

Also with Honda you can't seem to get them off the msrp price as easy as it is with toyota. You can also forget about pricing on the accord. Unless you want to pay over 20k.

w2323 · March 2005

What I'm looking for is MPG. I've heard people say they are getting low MPG in the new Corrolas. I had a 95 corolla and it used to get at least 35 MPG.

I'm concerned in that I do not want a car that gets 21 MPG if I wanted that I would not be selling my Camry for a compact car.

So I'm a little concerned. Since none of the boards seem to give any accurate MPG for the corolla.

The car itself says 32-41 which is great!!!! and a great selling point. But if it's not reliable I have a problem with it.

CR says 29 MPG and although I questioned it at first, I now tend to think CR is accurate. Maybe I will use mag for my search.

My question for the people with the Corollas. Why aren't you putting up a stink with a car getting 21 MPG let alone 12 MPG when your supposed to get a minimum of 32.

I just wish you would sue or call the media and make this a public issue. Because unlike what others say.

Toyota cares about their rep. Look at the sludge issue they now have a long warranty on the engines.

The media is probally your best bet.

By the way I read somewhere that bad MPG usually means a bad o2 sensor, pvc valve,or the timing could be off. 12-20 MPG is inexcusable and if anyone tells you differently they have no idea what they are talking about.

toyotafan6 · March 2005

mine's a 2001 LE - 4-speed automatic, I get 30 mpg (city) the majority of the time, probably 95% - I can count on one hand the times I got less than that and I've had the car almost 4 years - sometimes I get better than 30 mpg, like today: I filled up, checked the mileage and I got 31.3 mpg on my last tank - my sticker said I'd get 30 city and 39 highway, so far it's been a great car and I am very pleased with the mileage.

blueiedgod · March 2005

I have a problem with the Civic because of one thing. The lower end model of the Civil lacks any options, they are just too plain. To get even a few options like power windows and doors etc. You have to move past 2 of the low end models to the lx. But they draw you into the dealership with the lost leaders at the bottom.

It is much cheaper to produce vehicle with less options. By making tims with certain equipment loading Honda is able to cut costs, and be competetive. If you were to take a DX Civic and add power door lock and windows using Toyota's option pricing, it would cost more than buying Civic LX with those things already in it.

Another thing that kills me about the civic is the 14 inch tires in the base, whats with that???
Most people tune their Civic's to their taste. It saves Honda money by not puting wheels that someone else may not like anyway. If you want 17 inchers, you can buy them your self, and it will be cheaper than buying from Honda. Tirerack.com is one place I would suggest.

The sohc compared to a dohc makes me wonder as well.
You want the cake and eat it too?

Did you know for another $1000-1500.00 I can get a camry they have take home prices marked on camrys at our local dealership for 16k. Thats real pricing, I know because I've purchased 2 cars there

You can buy Accord LX for the price of Civic EX, so what?

Also with Honda you can't seem to get them off the msrp price as easy as it is with toyota. You can also forget about pricing on the accord. Unless you want to pay over 20k.

With some skilful nbegotiations one can get an Accord or Civic at or bellow invoice. (not MSRP)

According to Carsdirect.com Accord LX, 4 cyl, man, in my zipcode is $17,965. Honda Civic EX, 4door, man = $16,317, Civic EX 2 door, man = $15,952. These are no haggle prices. I have always been able to go under carsdirect.com pricing when buying cars.

This is your loss leader, Honda Civic VP 4 door (basically a DX with power options package and auto tranny) =$13,717, 2 door VP =$12,850.

w2323 · March 2005

I get $13,867 when i run the vp with auto. It also does not show that it has any power options. They seem to only add ac with vp option.

It looks like you have to go to LX to get any power at all.

I have a feeling the civic gets at least or better then 31 for some reason. CR appears to be pretty accurate. They say corolla 29, civic I think they said civic 32-33.

So it appears even though toyota states a very high MPG they are lying. It's making it easier for me to go with the civic for MPG anyway, they seem not to stretch the truth.

I also did a comparision of options of the following:

Scion xb, Civic Lx, Matrix, Corrola CE, and the Elantra GLS.

My results were as follows:

The Ion had 4 great standard opts tmv=$12300
The Civic had 7 great standard opts tmv=$14638
The Elantra had 28 great standard opts tmv=$12590
The Corolla had 13 great standard opt tmv=$12144*
The Scion had 22 great standard opts tmv=$13730*
The Matrix did not have power options tmv=$14177*

I included a 1k rebate for the corolla

Common features are power win/locks, ac and 29+ MPG

The winner to me is the Scion and the Elantra. Its funny the Elantra has the most HP and the Scion has the least HP. But both seem to stand out.

I know Elantra is not probally not up to par with the others, but the features are incredible, the warranty is the best in the industry and the prices are great. I will have to check the MPG on that one as well as it could be bogus.

The interior room on the Elantra/Scion also makes them stand out in the crowd. Look at the driver leg room for all the models above. I don't know about you but my old corolla/camry all have the same leg room. I hate it because your left leg is always arced.

Used to own an Excel had it for 7 years and 100k+ until someone hit me and it got totaled. Paint sucked and the manual trans sucked. But it lived a good life costs me 7100.00 in 1987.

Now they have better warranties. I bet CR still hates it though. The only negative on the Elantra is the Offset Crash was poor. To me thats not all that important.

The scion may be better then all of them at this point. The odd shape and perhaps lack of good bumpers is somewhat of a turn off to some. I kinda like the shape hate the way your head is almost hitting the front window.

* Hidden fees are also in Toyota products not sure of the others though.

w2323 · March 2005

CR info update:

The Civic gets 29 MPG
The Elantra gets 24 MPG but it also has good for
offset impact test now. The MPG was for automatic, would think a manual would kick it up to 27 MPG. Also CR recommends the Elantra, reliablilty is is also half red.

The MPG is still a bit of a mistery for these cars. Since the Elantra is about $2000 less maybe even more with incentives I dont know about, it still is in the running. Comfort is a big selling point and it's larger inside. I would have to test all the models.

Selling points that mean something to me:

MPG, Price, Reliablilty, Comfort, Standard Options (not optional options).

Resell price is somewhat of a selling point.

swlightn · March 2005

Hi,

I have 04 Corolla LE 4-speed automatic and I think mileage is not too bad.

I usually use local : freeway = 2:1 and always
use the cheapest gas.
mileage is 24-26 mpg.

When I travel, mileage is 33-39 mpg.
Isn't it good enough?

My accumulated mileage is about 12000 miles
and average mileage until now is over 30 mpg.

atman · April 2005

We're VERY interested in the gas.....we have to use premium in our navigator which gets 7 mpg in town and 14 on the highway...Can you say ouch????

We were leaning on the Corolla over the Civic.....but haven't driven them yet...
If Toyota is fudging the gas mileage then that would push us toward the Honda simply because of being lied to. The base Civic doesn't even have air conditioning. Trying to compare apples to apples, the Corolla seems to come out on top but by a very small margin....With the rebate we can get the Corolla with sunroof and stereo for about the same price as the Civic which has no sunroof or upgraded stereo.

The Elantra looks like fun because of the many extra goodies, however they all seem to tank when you go to re-sell them where as the Toyota and Hondas really hold on to theirs....more than just the initial purchase price differences.

Cheers.....
Dave

mcdawgg · April 2005

The EPA rates the cars on their miles per gallon, not the manufacturer, so Toyota is not "fudging." However, some people report lower MPG than the EPA. This is to be expected because of how different people drive and the different conditions. The EPA is a controlled environment test, so I think should be used as a comparison against other cars, not against actual MPG. Also, read the forums and notice that people are complaining about their MPG on both Hondas and Toyotas.

atman · April 2005

I realize that rated MPG versus real world is usually different. I also realize that I keep my foot in it much more than others, hence the exceptionally poor mileage on my Nav. However I just don't want to start out with a disadvantage, if Toyota ratings were inflated more than Honda, for example.

Having said that I also realize that it won't matter too much IF there is a slight difference. We had a 2002 Mazda 626 that we took cross country twice and after having it for more than 2 years it had 24K miles on it. My wife will be the one driving it and she works about 6 blocks away teaching.

"Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehiclesusually pre-production prototypesand report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests" at the lab... taken from www.fueleconomy.gov

So realizing that the gov tests a few cars each year, there very well could be discrepencies between the data they provide and what the government sees, also the results may not be representative of 'real-world' driving.

Take Care
Dave

corpchimp · June 2005

I just bought a Corolla LE automatic over the MD weekend and I have to say I'm loving it! I debated between getting that or a Honda Civic hybrid or LX sedan. While the Civic had the manual transmission I wanted, I couldn't get over the very conservative rear styling of the Civic (I know. . . as if Toyota would win any awards in innovative styling themselves). I thought the rear interior of the Civic was neat in that it had a flat floor and that it had a quieter and smoother engine than the Corolla. But the thing that sold me on the Corolla (besides the fact I have a bias towards them in that my previous car was a 97 Corolla w/ 121,000 trouble-free miles on it before the accident. ..), was its interior--felt more solid and upscale, the trunk-huge compared to Civic, cushier ride, IIHS ratings giving a slight edge to Corolla when equipped w/ the side and curtain airbags, and oh yeah, can't discount the great price I got on Corolla. For the record, my boyfriend, a previous Civic hatchback owner and now an unfortunate owner of a 98 Saturn, liked the Civic better. . . which goes to show (at least in my experience w/ Honda & Toyota owners) that we become partial to the brands that we've purchased before. Except for those unfortunate ones that have had :lemon: s..

Either car is fantastic in terms of reliability and resale value. Both cars are high up on the auto theft lists, but could also be due to the fact that, like Camrys and Accords, there are a ton of them out there on the road.

As for the mileage, I'm still on my first tank of gas. I've driven 250 miles and I'm only down to half-tank so I'd say I'm not doing too shabby, especially since I've had the a/c on half the time. Like others have said, one can't rely solely on the EPA *estimated* MPG. But at least, you would figure that all cars have this estimate and if you knock 5-10 mpg off each the cars then you'd still have workable numbers with which to do your comparison shopping. In short, if ppl are complaining about Corollas' MPG, you can bet that there are others complaining about Civics', Focuses, and any other car out there.

sr45 · August 2005

" Ask a 16 year old if he/she would like a brand new Corolla or a Civic "

Than ask the same 16 year old when he/she finally matures ( 35 years on up ) and knows something about interior/exterior design, what car they would prefer....Corolla

jerseydriver · September 2005

I was thinking about a Corolla or Civic and leaning towards the Corolla because it has a timing chain and the Civic has the timing belt, which looks like more maintanace.

smiley5 · September 2005

Where did you find the pricing for the Toyota and Honda? That's a pretty good deal for out the door! I can't find that anywhere, especially on the Civics. I was finding $15,515 and that wasn't including taxes, and dmv. What area are you in?

sdjosh · September 2005

Not to stir up more controversy, but I need some advice on waiting for 06 Civic prices to come domn versus buying a Corolla LE. I posted this today in a couple of forums.

(posted at Edmunds and TOV) Hope this information is helpful

My wife and I test drove a silver, automatic 06 EX sedan in San Diego today at about 2pm. The dealer weve been speaking to was nice enough to call to set up a test drive after the exact model we put a small down payment on came in early. These models were built in Japan, instead of the US. There were several at the dealer we went to, and supposedly some at another dealer further south. No sedan brochures out, but I was able to get the coupe/si one a few days ago.

Driving Impressions: Overall, an excellent car. A lot of this is subjective, but I am guessing the car will be well received after people start seeing more of them. It seemed Substantial in person in terms of aesthetics, but compact overall. It is very aerodynamic, even on the inside. The body is somewhat Prius-like from some angles. The dash appeared huge, as did the digital odometer display. No flickering, no sunlight wash-out, just nice. The alloy wheels looked beautiful, and quite large. It was spacious inside, but not much more so than the 05 Corolla or Civic. Storage and armrest comfort appeared great, and the steering wheel position was much better than the Corolla. Trunk is smaller than the Corolla, but the rear seats fold more flatly. The Ipod aux jack seemed well placed, but I couldnt figure out what kind of cord it would be mated with (not a Y cord).

The drive was refined, and pick-up seemed at least adequate. Road and engine noise was expectedly noticeable, but improved compared to the last Civic. We did not clock any freeway time, but got to drive it at about 55mph (forgot to look at the cruising tach reading). All controls and instruments worked well. I would have liked to have seen the interior at night, but even a brief glimpse of it in a well shaded area evoked a wow, cool. The engine compartment is tiny. Our salesman seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the car and its features, and was not aggressive. By the end of the test drive and other snooping around, we both agreed that this model/color was likely to be our next car but when?

Well, not too soon it appears. We knew they were going to be asking MSRP, and the previously posted prices ($19,060 plus $550 destination charge) were spot on. We asked for $18,500 and the dealer did not move one cent, admitting that the next test drive appointment was likely to buy the car today if we didnt. We were prepared for this, and ended up asking them to call us later if some compromise could be made. This was, of course, predictable.

The thing is, we really liked the car, but that price doesnt seem fair when looking at similarly equipped competition, and especially in considering that the novelty of being the first one on the block wears off pretty quickly. Not to mention the risk of reliability issues in buying a first year model after the redesign, and the lack of published crash safety results (although they should be good). Yet another bummer is the higher APRs offered by both the dealer and our credit union. 2.9 for a Corolla, 5.9 for the Civic.

This is not to say that the price was obscene, just a little out of range for the moment. We expect other buyers will be reasonable, and that prices will drop by or near the end of the year. Any advice or input on how to get closer to invoice would be greatly appreciated, and we hope this information is helpful. Thanks, and good luck!

w9cw · September 2005

- I was thinking about a Corolla or Civic and leaning towards the Corolla because it has a timing chain and the Civic has the timing belt, which looks like more maintanace.-

The 2006 Civic engine uses a timing chain, instead of a belt.

thegraduate · February 2006

Than ask the same 16 year old when he/she finally matures ( 35 years on up ) and knows something about interior/exterior design, what car they would prefer....Corolla

What, when people age they prefer cars with bigger hips than they do when they are teenagers?

Someone forgot to tell my dad. He had Civics from 1982, 91, 93, 95, 98, and was born in 1958. He picked these over Corollas, proteges, Stanzas, and other nineties small cars.

He now has a 2005 Accord (still prefers Honda's over the BOR-ING Toyota's).

powerbarsk8 · February 2006

Go figure, I guess I am still yound at foot:)

tthota · February 2006

Have you considered a Subaru OutbackSport (Impreza) special edition. It is at about the same price, but a lot more of a car, 2.5 liter, all wheel drive, all safety feature satandard, etc.. It makes more sense if you have snow in the winter. A Camry or Altima is also in the same price range. A Sentra 1.8s special edition is only $13,500. Anyone of these has more torque than a Civic, in daily driving.

thegraduate · February 2006

I have a Subaru Dealer (Jim Burke Subaru/Isuzu/ et. al.) near where I go to school, and have searched their lots many times in my free time between classes and labs. Try finding an Outback for under $20k...its impossible at this dealer anyway. Not a thing under $21k...most things around $23k (i used to look at Forresters before I drove the new Accord). An automatic base Impreza starts right at $20k

tthota · February 2006

Outback is 23K+. OutbackSport is actually an Impreza. My local dealer offered me 20K even, tax included, ~$700 below invoice, on 01/31 (end of month). It is a Special Edition, MT, 2.5 liter, upgraded sound system, leather wheel, AWD, everything I would have wanted. Just I had to buy the 14.7K Sentra (also tax included, everything wanted, except for MT & AWD) to save money for my son's tuition.

thegraduate · February 2006

Yeah, I searched the Subie site to see what you were talking about and figured out that its an Imp.

Sounds like you were offered a steal on it!

I bet by "Honda year-end clearance" time prices on Civics will become a lot more reasonable at dealers (no more MSRP-only).

midnightcowboy · February 2006

But does it have enough Torque??

kdhspyder · March 2006

Yes it's early but there is an ominous trend for the Accord

YTD Sales through Feb '06

Malibu/G6 .. 58.0 K units
Camry ....... 54.8 K
Corolla ....... 50.0 K
Civic .......... 49.5 K
Accord ...... 47.3 K
Altima ....... 36.1 K

thegraduate · March 2006

It looks rough, yes, but remember, if these sales are anything like mine was in Novemeber, Accords were kind of hard to come by right after the "butt-lift".

May I ask where the numbers come from?

Also, As far as Malibu/G6, Camry, and Corolla are all concerned, all have rental sales, too. Especially the Malibu and G6, the G6 will be getting more norw because the 4-cyl model (read-cheap) is now available.

Also, I just realized that you have combined the nunbers of the two, g6 and chevy

kdhspyder · March 2006

Yep Malibu/G6 are combined in the way the Taurus/Sable used to be and Fusion/Milan/Zephyr are now. Both GM/F are likely running up to 30-40% in fleet sales while Toyota is in the 10% range and Honda in the single digits.

Each manufacturer reports the month-end and YTD sales by nameplate and then by model as well, but they don't break out fleet sales. I got these off each's website. GM, Toyota and Honda.

I forgot to get the Ford numbers.

ctalk · March 2006

Malibu/G6 .. 58.0 K units
Camry ....... 54.8 K
Corolla ....... 50.0 K
Civic .......... 49.5 K
Accord ...... 47.3 K
Altima ....... 36.1 K

Where did you get those numbers for the Corolla?

According to this article, the Corolla sold 45,793 Y-T-D sales. Down 3.5%

Click here

In contrast, the Accord's Y-T-D sales were up 6.9%.

giantkiller · March 2006

I think KDH got his figure from the same press released you've posted.
YTD for Corolla is 49,978 up 0.6 YTD but down 3.5 for the month of February , 2006.

Honda Civic vs. Toyota Corolla

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