Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Audi (with the A4) seems to be attracting those that once gravitated toward entry level 3 series BMW's.

    More importantly, Audi has embraced their performance side, and I think they are attracting BMW owners who are disappointed with BMW's run-flats and slide into blandness. It's very likely that next year's C7 gen A6 will be more fun to drive than the new 5 series, which by all accounts drives like a mini 7 series.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2010
    And this hot on the heels of the C/D test of the C6 A6 (read "over the hill" model, A6) vs the new BMW 5 and Infiniti M, where the Audi was declared the winner a second time (over the Bimmer.)

    Of course, Audi, due in part to its last few years successes has cranked up their US MSRP's to BMW levels; so a primary former advantage of the AudiUSA brand -- price -- is, well, not so much anymore.

    I have an '09 A4 2.0T with all the toys on it but not premium paint. MSRP $49K+.

    A4, not A6. I had an '05 A6 and it was $53K+ -- the times they are a changin'.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419

    Of course, Audi, due in part to its last few years successes has cranked up their US MSRP's to BMW levels; so a primary former advantage of the AudiUSA brand -- price -- is, well, not so much anymore.

    A4, not A6. I had an '05 A6 and it was $53K+ -- the times they are a changin'.


    That's sort of true, and it sort of isn't. The base A4 is more expensive than in years past, but the S4 is considerably less expensive than the B6/B7 V8 powered car which Audi positioned against the M3.

    If you tick every box on the 535xi configuration page, you can spend $80K. An A6 3.0T Prestige with the few options available is $57K. That's more than $20,000 less than the BMW.

    I'm sure the C7 gen will get ADS and QuattroSport and a bunch of other new features to close the technology gap with the F10 5 series, and I'm sure the price will go up. But will it go up 20 grand? I don't think so.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    I've been away from these boards several months and there was only 84 new posts since my last visit. I wonder if everyone else around here is as bored with the luxury segment as I am. I've since gotten rid of my '08 BMW 550i Sport and acquired a new '11 Ford Mustang GT500 back in the summer. Didn't even look back when I dropped the keys to my Bimmer off. Often times I even forget that I ever had it, and it was only about 3 weeks ago when I turned it in! :surprise:

    I hope everyone's doing well and in good health and spirits. Happy Thanksgiving!
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWMember Posts: 3,165
    edited November 2010
    I wonder if everyone else around here is as bored with the luxury segment as I am. I've since gotten rid of my '08 BMW 550i Sport and acquired a new '11 Ford Mustang GT500 back in the summer. Didn't even look back when I dropped the keys to my Bimmer off.

    Funny you should mention it, I am Bimmer-less for the first time in 7 years as of a month ago, and thus far don't miss it. Don't get me wrong, I still think it is a great car line, but as are you, I'm less hyped up on the high lux. market.
  • moxiemoxie Member Posts: 33
    edited November 2010
    I agree that the luxury segment has become quite boring. Even BMW has more or less abandoned the "sport oriented driver" to cater to the much larger "boulevard cruiser" demographic - and I guess you can't blame them for that as, by all accounts they are doing very well. Even the 335i, with that sweet engine, feels kind of bland and heavy IMHO. And try and find a manual! - dealers here only bring in steptronics for their inventory.
    I think I'll test a Subie WRX STI - they only come with 6 speed manuals! ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wonder if everyone else around here is as bored with the luxury segment as I am.

    I wouldn't say I'm bored with it, I'm just not sure there's that much to talk about. The E-class is boring, and while the F10 5 series is a lot less offensive to look at than the last one, it seems to be less engaging to drive. The new M is nice, but I think Infiniti needs another generation to get everything right.

    I'll be looking at the upcoming A6 and A7 closely.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I like the new M myself but now it looks like an over sized G Sedan. I don't think Infiniti did enough with it considering a new A6 and GS will be out soon. I think the design will be dated pretty quickly.
  • mlevinemlevine Member Posts: 505
    M37 was a nice drive in regular and sports mode. Eco mode not practical. Plenty of room especially in back seats. A6 3.0T with good acceleration back seats tight. Would not bother with A6 3.2 which is underpowered. BMW 5 series not comfortable in the front or back seats, but great engine. E Class design would take time to get use to. Most lexus drivers where I live are retired and I am not even close to that stage. I am not a fan of jaguar corcerned about quality issues. Difficult choice in this luxury segment.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    edited November 2010
    Most lexus drivers where I live are retired and I am not even close to that stage.

    Ah so Grasshopper. With age comes reason and wisdom...... sometimes. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I wouldn't say that about IS driver ;)
  • mlevinemlevine Member Posts: 505
    Most of the IS drivers I have seen are those who probably want to upgrade from a camry or avalon, but do not want to pay the ES 350 price. I like both the GS and LS models. In later years this may be a consideration. I have to decide in a few weeks about the following models; M37, A6 3.0T, MB E-350, and BMW X5 35i. Lease is up on Audi Q7, deals on the new model for leasing is terrible. Feedback always welcome.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I was inferring that in my area, almost all the majority of IS drivers I see are young girls which would not go along with Lexus is for retirement age people argument. I would say the IS is the Lexus exception to that older demographic.
  • hondaman1hondaman1 Member Posts: 6
    Houdini1. Congrats on your 2010 Infiniti M35. You mentioned that it had 303 horsepower. I am pretty sure that the M35 has 330 horsepower. I am assuming that you just typed that wrong.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    Thanks, but I think you meant that message for m4m as he is the proud new owner of the M35 !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
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  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    Dear BMW,

    I love my AWD 2006 530xi with a manual tranny. I bought it in August 2005, as soon as you released a 5 series with AWD (I live in New England). In spite of lots of problems in the first year (I will never buy first year models ever again), and having had to replace the water pump recently ($1300), I still drive it with joy after 86,000 miles. We like BMW so much that we have had two X5's since then (a 2007 that we replaced recently with a 2012).

    Why do I love my 2006 530xi?
    Manual tranny
    AWD
    Nimble and agile feel
    Great steering
    Great gas mileage (I can do 33 mpg on the highway in 6th)
    Great styling (to me, and lots of my friends and family)

    With great excitement I drove a 2011 535i today, and I am depressed. Why have you abandoned us BMW -- your faithful core customers who keep coming back to you?

    I could never buy the 535i because you took away the manual transmission (forcing me to buy the 550i is not the right answer), gave it lifeless steering, gave it a heavy-feeling and floaty ride (unless, I assume, I spring for fancy sport-inducing electronics), and made it look like a 7 series (if I wanted to drive a huge car I would drive the 7).

    What do I do now? Can't go down to the 3 although I would like to because I have three kids.

    Why BMW, why?

    Sincerely,

    A loyal, but disappointed, BMW fan
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    The new double clutch automatic transmissions are actually better than manuals....e.g. the pdk porsche is faster 0-x mph than the equivalent car with a manual transmission...and offers manual steering wheel hand shifting. I would not buy a manual if a PDK car was available.

    That doesn't help your immediate problem though....The only family sized car I think has a double clutch transmission is the 2012 Passat, but I don't think it has 4wd. BMW does offer that transmission, but only on some limited high priced cars.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 199,044
    Faster isnt always better...

    If you like to row your own, PDK or DCT just isn't the same..

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  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    edited August 2011
    Once you get used to shifting with your hands, PDK/DCT cars are almost as good as a manual shift car in spirited driving...and in traffic/cities, much more convenient. I've driven manual sports cars for years and I found the porsche PDK to be just shockingly good even though I am not at all familiar/confortable with shifting with my fingers (you do have to get the right steering wheel on a PDK porsche though to get the paddles..the stock wheel has very awkward shifting buttons.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,858
    I've driven the PDK and love it, too. But it is DAMNED expensive to get the right one. Starting with just a Boxster, you have to add $3420! for the PDK and another $1480! for the sport chrono pack (the only way to get a PDK that doesn't automatically shift at redline). So a whopping $4900 for that transmission option. I love it, but I don't think I love it THAT much.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 199,044
    The only way to get PDK is used... they sell for less than the manual version..

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  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    Sportmatic cars sell for less than manual...but not true of PDK cars, at least in our area. PDK is much more in demand.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,858
    PDK is so new, are you sure that's the transmission you are seeing on these used vehicles?

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 199,044
    No.. not sure... :blush:

    Try looking at ads and determining transmission type, without looking at the pictures... shewwwww.. it's tough

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,858
    I typically see the older ones stating Tiptronic, which is very different of course. According to wiki, the PDK could be had in the 2009 Panamera, and, believe it or not, there is another generation of PDK even after that. I don't believe you'd find it too common until the 2010 models.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    I believe PDK was the only "automatic" transmission offered by porsche starting in 2009 (although I'm not sure about the cayenne).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,858
    nope. not in the cayenne. you also won't find it in any hybrid models.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    A reporter for a men’s lifestyle publication is interested in interviewing a male who has saved up enough money to indulge his goal of buying a luxury car. She wants to interview such a person to find out what unexpected benefits came his way, or how his life changed following this purchase. If you are interested in being interviewed, please respond to [email protected]dmunds.com with your name, phone number and the make and model of the car you purchased by Friday, September 9, 2011 .

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  • lawcarlawcar Member Posts: 97
    Well, it was almost anti-climactic after the several weeks of research, test drives, posting and reading on this website. I have been driving my black exterior/almond interior 2012 E350 which I picked up last week and really like it. While the black exterior does get dirty sooner than my medium gray BMW 528i, this color combination is very rich and elegant, yet sporty at the same time. Even though the car is black, it looks bigger than it is.
    My salesman was very helpful and spent about 45 minutes going through the car with me, from programing the nav system, syncing the contacts on my cell phone, adjusting the memory seats (driver and passenger) and the list goes on (even the emergency release inside the trunk). I felt that the time was sufficient, and look through the owner's manuals for more details or to find out something that I may have forgotten from his walk-through. Using the different gadgets helps me learn them.
    I got the sport package with the P1 package, lane change/blind spot assist and AMG wheels. The nav system is easy to use, as is the radio. The voice control is pretty incredible and very responsive.
    The cabin is beautiful: the almond seating contrasts beautifully with the black dash and black carpet and walnut burl. The adjustable seats with memory for both driver and passenger are very supportive but comfortable.
    The E350 definitely feels more solid than my 2009 528i. It has a very nice ride, smooth yet sporty with good steering and handling. I think the 528 has a little more responsive handling, but that might be due to the lighter feel of the car.
    I'm very happy with the E350. I've owned several Lexus (ES300 and GS 300) and two BMW's (325 and 528) and I like the E350 more than any of them. All of them are great cars and I certainly am not knocking any of them. I think the E350 has features of both the Lexus and BMW. It has creature comforts of the Lexus (all of which the BMW does not have) but more personality than the Lexus. The sport package gives it good styling and handling more akin to the BMW, but it is much finer in detail, and roomier in front and back. The BMW is what I would consider a luxury sport car, whereas the E350 is more of a sporty luxury car.
    To all of you who are considering what to get, just read the comments of those who post on this site, see the cars in person and test drive them yourself, and get the car and features that suit you the best. Enjoy the experience.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,133
    Interesting - and good luck w/the MB.
    Did you test drive the new 4 cylinder 528i?
    - Ray
    Just curious .....
    2020 BMW M340i
  • lawcarlawcar Member Posts: 97
    edited January 2012
    Thanks, Yes I did drive the new 4-cylinder 528i. I liked the handling of it (more responsive than the E350) and didn't notice much of a difference with the 4-cylinder turbocharged engine compared to my 6-cylinder 2009 528i. But there were a few things I didn't care for: the keyless ignition (I like to turn the key, and all of the BMW's have the keyless ignition); the start/stop (the car vibrated slightly, but noticeably, when you came to a full stop, although this feature can be turned off); the rear cabin and trunk were smaller than my 2009 528i and the 2012 E350. These things are personal and many people wouldn't mind them at all. Because I've had 2 BMW's before and never had a MB, I decided to get the MB.
  • pete51pete51 Member Posts: 20
    I could not agree more about your comments. I have never owned a BMW, but I did test drive one during our search. The BMW was like driving a sports car, great if that is what you want and the Lexus did have every creature comfort in the world, but Mercedes build the best all round car and they are designed to last for a long time. Yes, they have to go in the shop for different minor things, however for those that plan on keeping them for a long time Mercedes is hands down the best choice. I speak from experience in that we just gave our daughter our 15 year old E320 with 250K on it. We pondered and shopped around for a resale starter for her and found that it was very difficult to find anything that had a combination safety and kid appeal. Yup it is a 15 year old adult care, but as a kid she gets to drive a safe Benz and it is still rock solid. Took it on an interstate trip for a couple hours and I was able to set the cruise at 85+ mph and it did not shiver nor shake.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Not sure where your ideas of creature comforts came from re BMW vs MB, but they match up pretty well. On some models, they're standard, but may be optional on others. Multi-zone climate control, heated seats, ventillated seats, massaging seats, seat memory, heated steering wheel, voice control, puddle lights, rain sensing wipers, lane departure warning, automatic headlights, turing headlights, fog lights, headlight washers, smart cruise control, navigation, and the list goes on...both makes have them available. But, both vehicles are nice. Any vehicle you want to keep for a long time will need regular dealer (or at least a knowledgable substitute) visits.

    Any modern car should be able to sit on cruise at 85 without shivers or shakes...it they can't, it's a wheel balance or alignment component, suspension wear, or adjustment issue. If you maintain your vehicle that shouldn't be an issue, regardless of the make - luxury or economy. Now, how quiet it is or how well it goes over bumps will vary, sometimes considerably, between make and model.
  • lawcarlawcar Member Posts: 97
    edited January 2012
    I meant in general that the BMW is not as "luxury" feeling as the others. For example, it is not rough but does not ride quite as smooth (that's the nature of the BMW suspension), doesn't have as many features as "standard" or as part of a single package, navigation system is more cumbersome than on the Lexus touch screen, cupholders not as user friendly, interior not as finely finished. Again, having said all of that, they are differents cars. Despite the above differences, I really liked my 2009 528i, it had enough features for me, I got used to the nav system compared to my previous Lexus as well as the cupholders, and I enjoyed the ride. By my comments, I don't want to dissuade anyone from the BMW. As I mentioned, one has to go and actually see and drive the cars to make their own decision. When I got my BMW in 2009, I test drove the E350 and definitely did not care for the car at that time (it felt clunkier), got my 528i and totally enjoyed the car.
  • pete51pete51 Member Posts: 20
    edited January 2012
    Ditto to Lawcar's statements, sounds like you are a big BMW fan. I have no knocks at BMW, but it does have a sporty feel and yes, I would advise anyone that is looking at any of these cars to find a good knowledgable independent mechanic. Also, I just did not want to state it, but the plus I was talking about was 105 mph on a car that has 250,000 miles on it for over an hour. I am sure most of the cars can do this I just would not feel safe trying it.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    I lived in Germany a long time ago for awhile...rode down the autobahn at 200km/h lots of times in various vehicles...if you keep up on the maintenance (and the Germans pretty much require it - their vehicle inspections would put 80% of our cars out of commission!), they work.

    FWIW, at the time, to pass inspection, they put the vehicle on a test rig that checked front/rear and left/right braking for balance and stopping power, ran the vehicle over a calibrated bump at speed to check the shocks and springs, and numerous other checks to verify that that vehicle was safe, intact (no rust holes were allowed), and ready to face their autobahn at whatever speed was available. Our typical vehicle inspection is a joke in comparison, but we don't, or at least aren't supposed to, travel at max speed for distance like they can in some parts of their country.

    MB went through a period where their design and quality was pretty dismal, but the newer vehicles seem to have come back. I think their stint with Chrysler helped Chrysler more than it helped MB - think they somewhat lost focus.

    This was awhile ago, I went with a co-worker from Boston to Syracuse on a business trip and we drove in his MB because it would end up about the same travel time, and it gave us more flexibility. At the time, MB's nav system used CDs. It wouldn't let us create a route the distance (barely 300-miles) because it required your start and destination points to be on the same disk, and the data was partitioned at the MA/NY border! Talk about stupid design! Then, that model didn't have dual-zone climate control, and he liked it cold. The seat heater wouldn't stay on...it was connected to a timer, so I had to keep turning the silly thing back on to keep comfortable. Little design decisions, very inconvenient results, not something I expect from a vehicle costing that much. Once you drive a vehicle for awhile, it's likely you'll find quirks like these on anything...it's just that I didn't expect them on the MB.
  • lawcarlawcar Member Posts: 97
    edited January 2012
    Some Japanese cars have touchscreen Nav systems which are much easier to use than the joystick on the console that the MB and BMW have. Although now the cars have voice control, which improve them.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,009
    Merger with Chrysler was not a cause, but symptom of Benz's troubles. I think at some point they started chasing revenue (sales) by all means possible - Chrysler was one, lowering quality to maintain pricing levels was another. MB were a some point beta-versions of their cars sold as fully developed. The attitude was "let the consumer come to the dealer for a free fix". Also, long-term quality idea was abandoned, as they decided they wanted to take care of the first buyer (two-three year lease), not second or third. It was simply irresistible to replace a 10,000 hr rated $10 relay with one rated for 3,000 hrs costing $2.50. Nobody can see it and if it fails before warranty, we'll replace it. But it bit them back big time.

    Those press releases or interviews with corporate execs from MB, VW, Audi, even BMW etc. swear their quality problems are things of the past. Then you pick up consumer magazines and there you go - not yet, still same gremlins in electronics, sensors, etc.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,870
    edited January 2012
    I was in the car business just before retiring a couple of years ago as a manager of a high end new car dealership. In fact, I just helped lawcar with the purchase of his new E350 sport sedan, a vehicle I also just bought in October when the new 2012's hit the showrooms.

    I can't agree more with your comments about Mercedes back in the early 2000's - more problems with manufacturer buy-backs and Lemon Law claims due to a serious reduction in the build quality of Mercedes vehicles when they had purchased Chrysler. But, since 2008, there has been steady improvement throughout the line. I have owned a new Mercedes every year since 2008, and can attest to the build quality and trouble-free ownership experiences with them. This new 2012 is the best E class sedan they have ever built!

    I had a new BMW 528 (2005), 530 (2006 and 2007) and 2-2008 535's, so I can speak from experience regarding BMW and Mercedes. The 5 series BMW's were truly sport luxury vehicles. Had to lemon law the 2 535i's due to electrical and computer problems that they could not fix - and that is when I went back to Mercedes. The Mercedes E 350's since 2010 are truly magnificent LUXURY SPORT cars, which I agree completely with lawcar's assessment.

    The BMW 5 Series (535i) is more of a vehicle for sport enthusiasts who want luxury goodies as well whereby the E350 sport sedan (sport option) is a luxury sedan that has a more luxurious interior and ergonomics with sporty handling and styling.

    Both cars are great, but attract different kinds of drivers. Lexus (I've had 2 GS models in the early 2000's) is strictly a luxury brand with very little attraction for sport enthusiasts.

    That's why there are manufacturers who produce Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Rolls, Bently , etc. if there was little or no demand for these cars, they would go the way of DeSoto, Olds, Pontiac, Studebaker, Packard, to name a few.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    My biggest gripe with (almost) all luxury vehicles is that with my long torso, to get a comfortable position, I'm either having to crawl around the door pillar (on MB) to get out, or stuffing my head into the mandatory sunroof. While a few of the brands have occasionally allowed you to order one without the sunroof, lately that generally isn't the case. It's distressing when looking in their (German) home market, reviewing the available headroom, and find that that is without the sunroof, and the US (or anywhere) version with a sunroof has anywhere from 2.5-4" less headroom! All for something I personally don't use, don't want, and definately could use the extra room. I had an A6 a long time ago that I was able to special order without the sunroof, and it had (per the manufacturer's specs) 2.85" more headroom for the driver than one with the sunroof. That was a pleasure...I could actually get the seat up off the floor and move it around on a trip. Sitting, I'm a bit over 38" when sitting to the top of my skull, not counting hair. The headroom on the last MB E-series in the US had less than 38" of headroom. Without a sunroof, it was like 41". Can't get them here. BMW, similar, Audi, similar. I ended up with a BMW GT, mostly because it had enough headroom, not because it was the one I wanted. Decent car, but I'm not a great fan of RFT, which most (all?) BMWs come with these days, and no place for a compact or conventional spare. They're okay, just not great.
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,870
    Great point! Moon/sunroofs were optional for many years and then manufacturers thought they were doing us a favor making them standard. You are correct - headroom is tight in the Benz. Nor only that, I only use the moonroof only 10 - 20 times a year. Too hot here in Florida and sun too strong most months. Why not make them optional and make leather standard?

    2021 Genesis G90

  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Last I looked at the MB, I had the dealer make a plea to corporate, but no joy. He told me that when it was optional, people would complain that it was standard on other brands they were looking at and said, why should we have to pay extra for it? To satisfy the typical lazy US consumer, they just relented. There is some economy of scale to just build them all the same, but my point is that they already build them without...it's not a big deal, especially with the computerized JIT manufacturing process that is pretty much universal with the manufacturers these days. FWIW, that 'standard' sunroof in my GT is a 1700 Euro option in Germany! I'd much rather spend that money on something else! So much for 'free' - people, it isn't free, compare apples to apples and you'd see.
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,870
    If you look at the consumer ratings here on Edmunds and other sites, a common thread that is frequently mentioned is the lack of standard leather. For a luxury brand, one would think that US marketing tests would have brought this to the attention of corporate (limited head room and leather). As lawcar mentioned in one of these forums, power retractable side mirrors are standard on many luxury brands - but not Mercedes. Interesting, to say the least

    2021 Genesis G90

  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Blame the marketing department...it's not the engineers that come up with all the things.
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 11,870
    Market analysts find out perceived consumer desires, wants and or Preferences and then engineering and designers create solutions. At least that has been the usual flow of ideas and advances. I guess engineering and designers can "create" and then marketing can "sell", but meeting needs seems to
    Be more logical.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    A reporter is working on a story about car technology and is looking for recent or current car shoppers for whom technology was a critical factor. Were you looking to pack your car with as much new technology as possible? Are there special technologies and systems that you care about more than others? And are you at all concerned about the role technology plays with distracted driving? Please send an email with contact information and a brief description of your experience by no later than Sunday, February 5, 2012.

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  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    The problem with MB and most European cars is that quality, reliability and dependability are far too inconsistent. This is especially so when you consider how long they have been in the business and how much they charge for the cars. The BEST German cars only rate an average on reliability and very few of them.
    In truth, MB probably never has been the reliability/dependability icon it is supposed to be. Their maintenance plans also call for replacement of many parts every 24,000 miles that other manufacturers expect to last 100,000 miles or more.
    Within 5,000 miles my 2010 E350 was recalled, the tilt component of steering wheel had to be replaced (2.5 days! after part came in), leather on $850 optional steering wheel shredded, etc.

    As for Chrysler fiasco, it could have worked but MB management in Germany tried to run the company to supplement MB products and make money for DAG. Sent Germans over here to run it. Fiat is letting the American automobile professionals run the company with input, assistance, money and products that complement Chrysler.

    BTW, a major factor in why people buy Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, etc. is for the badge/name. They may deny it, but's its true. No star on front and back of my car and I would not have purchased it. Same thing for Lexus, Audi, Acura and Infinitis that I looked at.
  • michael0137michael0137 Member Posts: 58
    We bought a 2008 RL used in March 2011 with 18,700 miles on it from an Acura dealer in Tucson, AZ for $26,000. It was not certified - we got an extended warranty. We have had it over a year and it is a GREAT car. Bought it after our son bought a used '05 with 28K on it in January 2010. We were so impressed - the AWD, sound system, Navi, back up camera, power rear window shade(great if you have little ones in car seats - especially backward facing ones), adaptive xenon headhlights, etc etc. - there is nothing missing on this car in terms of luxury. Performance? My husband had a guy in a Dodge Hemi Pick Up challenge him at about 35MPH. The Acura blew his doors off - the VTEC kicked in and the guy's jaw dropped! LOL! This car is no performance slouch - and we get 29-30 MPG at 75-80 on long trips. Styling?? Look at a 2005 - a 7 YEAR OLD CAR - and then look at a 2012 ES350 or a Hyundai Genesis - see any resemblance?? I do not understand maligning the RL. IT IS A GREAT CAR. Looked at a BMW 5 series lately? 4 cylinder engine standard??? Pulllease. We have had 3 1st Series Legends, a '94 6 speed Coupe, then a couple of Accords(kids were in college) and now back to Acura. The legends all went 175K plus without any drivetrain problems whatsoever. This car is the Legend all over again - but better in SO many ways. Buy one - you'll love it!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,858
    I don't like to do this normally, but since you brought it up...

    Racing a pickup truck? Really??

    TL SH-AWD 0-60 = 6.4s; 1/4-mile = 14.9s; mileage = 16/24
    4-cyl 528i 0-60 = 6.0s; 1/4-mile = ?; mileage 20/30

    The 528i is still estimated, but the reality won't be far off. Clearly, the 4-cyl is not a hindrance if you want to compare to the Acura.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

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