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Comments
Can a 5-series outhandle a 3-series? Obviously... the M5 would do it, even if it had a Singer sewing machine for an engine..
But, a 545i Sport Vs. a 325i Sport? I still stick with the 3...
Handling is hard to quantify... It isn't just about numbers, or we'd all be driving Infinitis and Lexi...
regards,
kyfdx
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Well '80s Vettes werent exactly known for great handling. The '97 C5 sure, but before that, not so much.
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Is this the "smart money" over Infiniti?"
Only if you drive less than 200 miles per week.
Who's talking about racing? I'm talking about handling, not speed. The fact that your 545 can out-accelerate my 325 is not nor has it ever been in dispute.
I'm not sure my 325 can even reach 145mph.
For heavens sake, an LS 430 would out-race a 325.
Go to your nearest bloodsucking money factoring .00295 leech of a BMW dealership and try a BMW 3 series. Take it hard around the turns. Then try yours. Report back here what you find. If you still feel the 5 outhandles the 3, then what you maintain is probably correct. It's a subjective game.
Okay, continue with your discussions...
Have y'all listened to this? It's a classic. (And no, it isn't another top secret Lexus spy video)....check this out.....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1389458/posts
Hit the "Click Here for Audio" link.
Anyhow, you love yours. I love mine. That's all that really matters.
And they both lived happily ever after in driving nirvana.
A state of anxiety that very well could exist when test driving an unfamiliar car which may cloud one's judgment. Being more comfortable, familiar and relaxed in one's own car affecting the test drive result in an unfamiliar vehicle.
I will definitely take this thought with me on my next test drive(2006 330i) and it will help me to better evaluate the new vehicle.
Oh, absolutely. The more unfamiliar features on the test vehicle, the less attention paid to how it handles. Sort of a forest for the trees effect. Before I bought my 5 (which is the only BMW I have ever owned), I attempted to compare the sport pkg vs non sport, but all the 5 non sports at the dealer were automatic. I've been driving only sticks for 25 years now, and the combination of auto plus the totally unfamiliar car completely threw me off. I was so busy not shifting on the curves that the only thing I noticed or remembered about the drive was that I wasn't shifting. So I went to another dealer who had both sport and non sport sticks, and then I was able to determine which I preferred.
Even little things, such as where's the button for the heat or how do I turn on the windshield wipers, can distract you enough to tarnish the experience.
I was trying to think of any road coming out of Chicago where you might be traveling 145MPH. Edens? The Kennedy? Naw...you wouldn't. I-90? I-94? Naw... The Tollway? HMMMM.
"I'm not really sure you are hearing me your honor, we weren't drag racing....really!" :sick:
M
Wouldn't that be I-90 from stateline to stateline? :P
I-90 is up in South Dakota.
The best high-speed roads are not interstates, they're the little-used US highways in rural areas. My favorites are in Nevada, but they exist all over the West & Midwest. My general rule for running at high speed (above 90) is that there shouldn't be another vehicle anywhere in sight.
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What hurt was I was keeping pace with traffic!
But I was flattered that they needed the "air force" to bring me down!
M
If that city's name is pronounced the way it looks, it's just dripping with connotations! :surprise: No pun intended.
I remember this strech better known as "Loneliest Road"...drove it in April '66...brings a little smile tho' when I think about it. I was driving a '66 VW Beetle....not exactly the kind of machine you'd bury the throttle on! Ha Ha! Fond memories of a 24 year old having a ball driving to California to look up old army buddies.
Surprising were the results of marked improvement in BMW, and the fact that Audi beat out Acura and Infiniti, contrary to people's opinions that Audi's aren't as reliable as those 2 makes (M owners, don't get all in a tiff, I know the initial reliability for the M's isn't yet in the mix...). Interesting nonetheless.
http://www.jdpower.com/pdf/2005069.pdf
From Tonopah up through Austin on 376, then 305 up to Battle Mtn, then picking up 120 North of Winnemucca on NW into Oregon provides lots of solitary driving.
But, it's all good.
You realize that if stupidity were a crime, 98% of the world would be locked up.
take a look at the 5-year dependability studies. These studies reveal how reliable cars are.
cmybimmergo, what a great world that would be.
I'm about to begin my sixth year with my most recent car, and this is when the fun can begin. My last car was pretty decent through four years, after which it stranded me twice.
I get a chuckle (at a minimum) from people who boast about the "reliability" of the car they've had six months, or weeks. Tell me about 150 - 200K miles and/or 10 years.
By the bye, where are these "5-year dependability studies" found? They're going to tell me what I need to know. Hmmm. . .I'm guessing we're going to have to wait about six years to get anything worthwhile regarding most of the cars that are most discussed here, and I'm probably going to get an itchy trigger finger in 2-3 years.
Oh well. . .
This is very true. The funny part is that the police here couldn't believe what their radar was telling them. They actually went to a Honda dealer to confirm that the particular bike he was riding could actually do 160mph. They didn't have a clue.
He got a 1 year suspension of his license and 30 days in jail for that little stunt. I'll try see if I can find the story.
Lexusguy,
I agree that the IQS really doesn't speak much about long-term reliability/durability, but still I'm shocked to see Acura barely clear the average. It must be those stories on other forums about the RL's awd system locking up. Mercedes' improvement here should, and I say should equal some improvement in 2008 when the 2005 cars are looked at in the dependability study. Fingers crossed.
M
(P.S. about The RL. If you read that problems board, you'll see that there have been innumerable electronics glitches and gremlins that have plagued the car since its launch).
merc1, what these guys don't realize is that stupidity is not macho; it's just stupid. (But it makes for great press.)
You do realize that JD Powers surveys and Consumer Reports surveys come to similar conclusions on a consistent basis?
The first 90 days of ownership applies to the J. D. Power Initial Quality Survey, NOT the Reliability Survey. Agree with you on the Consumers Union (Consumers Report) reliability data.
Martin
The Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) on the other hand is about the reliability of 3 year old vehicles. This is about how well vehicles hold up over the course of a typical lease.
Both surveys give good information that rivals CR, but if you confuse the two surveys all you get is garbage. Some people should not use information without adult supervision.
Enjoy, cybersol
Some people should not use this information at all.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
First of all, JD Power (and CR) deserve credit for bringing quality to the forefront. No question about that. But JD Power is also a profit center, pure and simple. Although it pretends to be an independent group of researchers in white lab coats, their revenue comes from selling its logo and rankings to companies who choose to use it in their marketing/advertising. Their methodology can change yearly to fit their agenda to sell their name and present themselves as quality "experts." McGraw Hill's recent acquisition of JD Power was purely designed to maximize M-H's bottom line revenues.
CR is slightly more pure since they accept no advertising or sell their name. But they certainly have their political and profit-driven agenda. IMO, neither is a true non-profit, and both are driven to maximize revenues. Thre's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you have to filter their results with those realities in mind.
Interesting that JDP's #1 ranking entry luxury car is the long-in-the-tooth IS300/Sportcross. Sales for the 2005 IS300 are down -50%, and this entry level model currently represents only 4% of total Lexus sales for 2005. It's been bit of a dog for Lexus, and the new model is at least 2 years late. The Lexus website still shows the Sportcross, but I think it's next to impossible to find one today, since they have basically bombed in the marketplace. I don't deny their stellar quality, but it's interesting to me to see JD Power wave a huge quality award for a car that has basically been ignored by the market for 1-2 years, and is on its deathbed. Makes you also wonder if their quality rankings are truly apples to apples, given the huge differences in sales volume within the models listed. Their # 2 ranking car is the X-Type, and volumes have already been written about this car's problems. Makes me question JD Powers' credibility and methodology.
I also think it's loopy to rank factories based on these quality ratings. To slam a factory for poor quality, because they happen to build a poorly designed car, is disingenous and puts the blame in the wrong place. Is it really relevant to give factory A a gold medal, factory B a silver, etc., based on problems reported in the first 90 days of ownership by people who bothered to participate in a survey, or attend an evening focus group in exchange for a free dinner?
These rankings always have some element of "garbage in, garbage out."
CR, on the other hand, IS truly independent. They are not dependent on pleasing any manufacturers. Their revenue comes from reader subscriptions, not from the companies whose products they test. They do make money (which pays their employees, pays for their research facilities, and finances their publications), but they are as non-profit as you can get, i.e., their primary purpose is not to make money but to evaluate products and report their results to the public. They've been doing that since 1936. Their politcal agenda, if they have one, is consumer protection. In a world of advertising hype and rampant conflicts of interest, they are about as trustworthy as you can get.
I'm not criticizing them....they are what they are. They are best when they are testing and ranking washing machines. But lately they have flexed their muscle into political issues that run the risk of diluting their strengths. It's the old paradigm of wanting to get larger, more influential, and more successful, but there's a price to be paid in going there.
And, they ranked the BMW 5-series so highly, so they MUST be a little bit nuts (just kidding).....