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You might want to have faith that the American public are smarter than all that, but remember, if stupidity were a crime, 98% of the world would be locked up.
Privately his Masserati (or whatever) gathers no dust.
Too bad his swing doesn't come with the club.
as for tiger, i'm sure he's chaufered to golfing events and doesn't care what people see him step out of, cuz he's not driving...
ksso
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=2221&page_number=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9391
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0505_risingsun/index.html
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0503_6degrees/
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_sport_sedans_comparo/
The major auto rags also have an admitted bias toward speed and performance(with the possible exception of Automobile Magazine, which follows its own drummer and the musings of David E. Davis). Keeping that bias in mind, it's not surprising that the Infiniti scores so highly, thanks to horsepower, powertrain, handling dynamics, and braking performance.
And relatively speaking, the M presents a good value proposition compared to its competitors. And it's also a new flavor that dares to zig where others zag. The new kid in the sandbox who shows up with the cool new toys will get his due.
That's probably why the GS300 has been pretty much neglected. Not blazing speed. Buyers, however, may value other things such as ride, comfort, quiet, luxury, reliability, etc. So the car mags ratings must be taken with a couple of grains of you know what. CR, for my money, has the best balanced ratings, though in contrast to the car mags, speed and performance are definitely not their prime rating criteria. Handling, however, they do test and value.
For the record, it has lost though, Edmunds stupidly picked the GS430 as "Japan's best sports sedan", immediately after calling it the least sporty of Japan's three entries. Automobile's choice was the A6. The fact that the M45 has won such an overwhelming number of comparisons and has gotten such praise across the board is amazing though. Its not "Japan's best car". Its the best car in the segment. Period.
I would say its the best if you're looking for sport first because it hasn't won in cases where the editors were looking for more luxury. I think that Edmunds and Automobile were looking for more lux than sport. Despite as to what Edmunds says they were looking for.
M
Yes I suppose thats true. Though the M45 is no IS300. There's still plenty of luxury to be had; I dont think its any worse than the 545i in that regard. Its just really nice to see at least one of Japan's big three taking on the competition in full force. Toyota and Honda have a history of taking timid steps in unknown markets, and it looks like Nissan's success is making them change their attitudes a bit. Honda especially, as I think Nissan's growth is putting a lot more pressure on Honda than Toyota.
M
Although some suggest that Honda is acting "timid" by only offering a V6 spec RL, I would suggest that it is being more strategic and prudent with its product offering in this particular class. It could have invested more $$ to offer multiple versions of the RL to better compete with the M, G, A6, 5-series, E, and STS, but would Acura sales be dramatically higher if they had done so? Perhaps, but relative to the additional tooling, marketing, and design costs, it's certainly possible that supporting V6/V8 versions of this car may have resulted in a lower net income after all the dust settles. I question whether that would have been the smarter business move, although it would have been perceived to be a bolder move. (I agree with Lexusguy that you certainly don't want to be classified as being "timid," although I don't agree that this applies to Acura at the moment.)
At the end of the day, I think it's more important to realize a higher net income from your operations, while also establishing and growing your brand as a potent benchmark within the lux perf category. Acura still has it work cut out to erase the memories of the previous RL and Legend. The true success of this new RL can only be quantified 3 years from now. It's too early to suggest that they are being "timid."
I disagree that the Automobile comparison valued luxury over performance. If you carefully read that article, it is clear that they rated the A6 4.2 the highest based on its power, driving dynamics, and some sort of nebulous sense of "cache" that they attach to this car (Mark Cincinnati can relate to that "cache," I'm sure.) They also ranked these cars based on the "base MSRPs," which is unrealistic when you can't buy any of these cars (except for the RL) comparably equipped for these listed "base" prices. They also critcized the RL for lacking "Veritas." What the hell is that anyway?
All of these articles have their inherent biases. I'm glad that they do, otherwise it would be utterly boring to read the same analysis over and over from one magazine to another. I also don't criticize the Edmunds review like so many others do....it's just a different take on cars that are closely matched in so many ways. Edmunds also said that their final results were razor thin close to one another.
Desperate GM has run a full page ad in today's Chicago Tribune showing their 8 different JD Power awards. This includes their Gold and Silver ranking manufacturing plants. As previously stated, the JD Power profit center is alive and well.
As a pure sports sedan, the BMW still takes top honors. It remains the true driver's car, delivering the tightest handling, the most direct feedback and the biggest smiles. But throw subjective factors like styling, ride and interior functionality into the equation, and the negatives end up chipping away at the positives. For those who aren't bothered by these things, the 545i is the easy choice. But for the three of us blasting through the desert on this test, those factors did matter and ended up tipping the scales in favor of the Infiniti M45.
So really the M45 ONLY beat it for subjective reasons. Not trying to take away from the M45. Sounds like a great car, but if you take price and styling out of the equation and focus on performance the writers clearly enjoyed the 545i more.
As rich545 points out above Road and Track "cheated." They awarded the M45 Sport ~9 points based on "price as tested" all the while testing a nearly stripped M45. After loading up the M45 to a comparable equipment level as the other two cars the M45's lead over the 545i almost goes away and I'd call it a statistical tie.
I agree with your comments regarding price points; however I must point out that styling plays a major part in one's enjoyment of a car. I can not conclude from anything they (or you) wrote that would indicate that the Road and Track Editor's "clearly enjoyed the 545i more". As I pointed out above, allowing for a price adjustment I'd say the comparison ended in a statistical tie (although the M still would have out-pointed the 545i as they indicated in the article).
I have never seen a comparo where one car wins in so many categories and comes in #2. :confuse:
Perhaps Acura was being prudent :confuse: But I do kow that the RL is overpriced and that dealers are not at all happy with sales figures. The RL has been heavily discounted since March, and there are many reports on various forums for below invoice pricing right now.
I don't believe motorttrend reviews for a second. They are about as unbiased as NPR. When they want a car to win, they will structure the criteria for a car to win, case in point: they counted heavily on money for last years comparo were the G35 won, yet a little later they did the comparo again, when the Cadillac CTS had the new 3.6L and guess what? no G35, and the Crysler 300 (why was it even in there?) could have had a v8 for the as tested price of the CTS, so the Cadillac won.
I'm a cadillac fan, but why not test it against all of its competition?
At least this is for sure, the best comparison test is when the buyer goes aout and test drives the competition.
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You are correct but the M45 won its categories by a larger margin. The BMW's wins were not by very many points. It's not about how many categories you win but the total score. In tennis one can win far many more points and far more games but still lose the match. Ex. 6-0,6-0,7-6,7-6,7-6 = 30-21.
A quote from the article:
"Unlike the 545i and GS 430, which both lost categories in our scoring, the M45 Sport never finished outside the top 2. It was this consistency and its distinctive mix of luxury and performance that won out in the end."
The GS300 has never been in a comparison test - it's always the GS430. Considering that 75-80% of all GSs sold will be the GS300 seems the car mags are not serving the majority of car buyers. I don't think Lexus is to upset about the omission. Compared to it's rivals the GS430 performed much better than the GS300 would. The GS350 will do better.
Still could see the AWD GS300, M35, 5-series and Audi in a comparo though.
Yep, I agree. FYI: I was quoted $44,900 in Houston about a month ago. I was at one time nearly 100% sold on the RL. However now I am leaning toward the M35. I am in no hurry and have not made a final decision.
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I feel just fine. I got top dollar for my trade in and paid MSRP. According to Edmunds, my 99RL is worth about $5,000 less now, than it was in October. So let's say I had waited and got a fantastic deal and paid only a little over invoice and received $5,000 less for my trade in. That means I would have ended up maybe $1,000 better off than my original deal. I've had seven months of pure driving joy with my RL and that is well worth the possible $1,000 extra it cost me.
How far upside down might be another matter....
It wouldn't matter a lot to me... I don't trade that often and I rarely buy the "hot" car of the moment.. But, if I did, I would recognize that I'm paying a premium. You are either okay with that, or you aren't.. If you aren't, you shouldn't be buying that car..
As long as you are happy with the car you bought, that is what is most important.. I don't think too many people in the $50K range obsess over what they might have saved.. (I"m just guessing here.. out of my price range..lol).
regards,
kyfdx
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Well, I always put a lot down and pay it off in a very short time, so I'm not upside down.
I don't think too many people in the $50K range obsess over what they might have saved.
It's not so much what range our purchase is in, it's just that obsessing over what we might have saved serves no purpose. It's a done deal at that point.
The new 530i's monthly lease payment is already in the stratosphere.
Many people will lease the M45 because it is the better buy and they won't be giving up much in the way of performance-if anything, which remains to be seen. Remember, the 545 lost out to the M45 in the Road and Track comparo mainly on subjective ratings-ugly body, disfunctional interior,etc; in their opinion. Those opinions won't change with a more powerful engine in the new 545-550.
That doesn't really seem to me to be true either. If you look at their final ratings, the M actually does win the Performance quotient of the rating by their numbers as well.
While I understand the desire to express the "feel" of the car as well as raw numbers, I still find it interesting in reviews such as these that while the numbers indicate a better braking setup on the M the drivers still rate the brakes higher on the subjective scale. The article also noted that while the M "lost" the slalom test this time, the driver of the M had achieved higher numbers in a previous test of the M, a number that would have been highest in the slalom ratings.