Luxury Performance Sedans

cstiles · June 2005

Didn't you guys see Monty Python's Holy Grail???

"We are the Knights who say.....Meh!!"

Okay, back to my pint o' Guinness.

Lexusguy--how many times have you driven the RL?

cmybimmergo · June 2005

That was a reference to post #2543. No one I've asked knows what it means.

nebraskaguy · June 2005

I do not like the center portion of the dash, nor the placement of the "joystick"

The placement of the "joystick" is perfect! I rest my right arm on the console and my wrist on the gear shift and my hand is in perfect position to work the joystick. Where would you put it that could possibly be better??

msu79gt82 · June 2005

In my opinion the "joystick" is too low; way below the level I feel comfortable dropping my eyes while driving. Of course with time and experience using it, this will probably improve - but from limited experience and unfamiliarity it seems too low to me.

BTW - I used quotes on "joystick" because I hesitate to use i-drive (even pseudo).

nebraskaguy · June 2005

In my opinion the "joystick" is too low; way below the level I feel comfortable dropping my eyes while driving.

But there is no reason to drop your eyes. Why would you need to look at the joystick? I just reach over and place my hand on it - I never look at it while driving.

markcincinnati · June 2005

We the Knights who say "nee!" There are no Knights who say meh, that I can find.

Thankfully the Meh issue is over, I have been pondering that -- trying to figure out the TLA (three letter acronym).

Whew!

cstiles · June 2005

"The Knights Who Say Meh!" are a mysterious and select few who are known to convene around the Edmunds roundtable. Many seek the LPS grail, but just a handful are chosen for this noble calling.

mexibec · June 2005

That article is also online: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9391&page_number=1

I personally think that it's a good article with fair reviews. It saved me some time while looking for my next car (which turned out to be the M45, and what a car indeed...) But keep one thing in mind: the BMW being reviewed is the 530 (not the 545) and the MB is the E350 (not the E500), because of their price tags. If that's not much of an issue for you to pay premiums for those cars (BMW & MB) and performance is high in your list, they may end up your top choices.

chef_jmr · June 2005

cmybimmergo,

That was my response to "newaudilover" trying to stir up controversy. It means nothing, except more of a "Seinfield-ian" response to #2533 & 2534 in response markcincinnati's "What's for dinner?" comment. "newaudilover's" demeanor was "salty" and I wanted mashed potatoes for dinner, with meatloaf. No offense given.

Jeff

lexusguy · June 2005

I've driven the RL once, for about a half hour. When I pulled into the Acura lot, the first thing I saw was lots of RLs. Maybe 12-14 of them, and this is just the front lot. There may have been more around back. Not really a good sign. When my wife and I went to look at the MDX, the same dealer told us that the tester was all they had, and people were clamoring to buy that for as much as $4-5K OVER sticker! Clearly nobody is clamoring to buy an RL. Anyway, as some others have said, it feels like a big Accord. Maybe if Infiniti was still peddling the old M, I might find the RL more interesting. But they arent, and their car is so good that it makes the RL and GS look like last generation cars.

The GS300 has no VDIM, and I dont think it has the GS430's E-brakes, either. Not sure on that one. Chances are it probably will handle better than the 430 though. I think Edmunds mentioned that in their original first drive.

hpowders · June 2005

I guess you can say the Acura RL(here it comes) is one heck of an amehzing car!

cmybimmergo · June 2005

Feh! :P

cmybimmergo · June 2005

No offense given.

And none taken. I thought we were dealing with another obscure colloquialism.

hpowders · June 2005

And then again, mehbe not!

hpowders · June 2005

Feh everyone's information, I only have six weeks to make a decision before I have to give my BMW back, and I still don't know which mehke of luxury car I should tie myself up with for the next 3 years!
Thanks for listening, fehlows.

newaudilover · June 2005

Sorry my message sounded "salty". Was not trying to stir up controversy. However being part of a Seinfeld-ian response makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Just for the record, I am sure that Seinfeld enjoyed the BMW he purchased on one of those episodes. :P

hpowders · June 2005

I have been poring over reviews and I have found that everything I hate about the GS430, Lexus left out on the GS300. I hated the GS430's gimmicky steering, similar to BMW's active steering; the overly touchy brakes. According to what I've read, the GS300 has normal steering and normal brakes. One reviewer said that if you are a driving enthusiast, try the GS300, not the GS430!
So tomorrow I will check out the GS300 and I will have my checkbook with me just in case.
It just might turn out to be mehvelous!

bernster · June 2005

I too need to make a decision. Ruled out M45 and RL because too active a ride. LS430 and Q45 have spoiled me. Currently the front runner is the VW Phaeton being advertised at $599 per month for 36 month lease and about $3,500 down. This is an irresistable deal. The VW isn't as nimble as the M45 but who cares when its many times more luxurious and LESS MONEY. GS430 is also a consideration but not at lousy lease prices being offered.

By the way, the M45 is much better than RL for ride, acceleration and instrumentation. I think the M45 is the most technologically advanced car I have seen. Too bad the seats suck and it doesn't have the ride of the Q45. One day the Q will have this technology and I will definitely consider it.

markcincinnati · June 2005

You could order exactly the car you want if you have about 100 days. This is a big ticket purchase. It is YOUR money, my opinion really doesn't count, but you did post what looks like a plea.

Why not order what you want rather than take the chance you will have to take something less than YOUR PERFECT car?

At this kind of money, few of us would buy anything without fully vetting it and getting exactly what we wanted.

You may find THE car on the lot. If you do, you will have done something I have NEVER been able to do since 1977 when I ordered my first Audi 5000.

I wish you luck and pluck.

For a three year decision, there are about 7 cars, any one of which will be "decent" and safe and probably very competent.

One of these cars may be the car that will stir your inner automotive passion. Pick your car, order it and see if it can be located. If not, you may have to rent a car for about 4 or 5 weeks -- but you will end up with the car you want rather than just the car you need (note to self, could be a song in there).

hpowders · June 2005

No. I agree with you. What I meant when I said I would bring my checkbook with me to the Lexus dealer when I drive the GS300, is that I would put down a small deposit in good faith to reserve a car to be ordered, assuming I really like the car.
I have until August 2nd so I have no intention of taking a car off the lot at this time. I would make that perfectly clear to the salesman.
This human comedy I am involved in has taken over a year and I still haven't decided what I want to be driving 7 weeks from now.
I think I have a good chance of liking the GS300 as much as I disliked the GS430 since the brakes and steering in the former are supposed to be normal.
I notice that the Edmunds consumer rating from 20 people is a very high 9.6 for the GS300. That's a good omen.
Thanks for your advice.

mexibec · June 2005

> Too bad the seats suck and it doesn't have the ride of the Q45

Seats: you may need to spend more than a few seconds to find the right setting. It took me several attempts to get the seat settings to a good fit. Now it's awesome.

Ride: Did you drive the Sport or Base? I drove both and I chose the Base because it's much less noisy (tires), and waaaayyyy smoother on any sort of pavement. Sure it has more body roll, but the current settings (tires & suspension) still works extremely well. Btw, all sales people told me "there's almost no difference", but they were obviously trying to sell me the Sport model because the difference is there big time. My M45 Base is as smooth as the MB E500 I test drove. Only with quicker steering and better brakes. Oh yeah, faster and more reliable!

lexusguy · June 2005

Interesting choice. One advantage to the Phaeton is your pretty much gauranteed to have the only Phaeton on the road. The interior is gorgeous, but I just cant get over the "super Passat" styling. Its as boring as the RL's.

kdshapiro · June 2005

I'd deal with the outside for the interior and ride. The outside of a the car never has to be perfect. For me it's the inside does and road manners. Styling is all subjective and a compromise at best, anyway.

freddybb · June 2005

I have always wanted to get a 5 series (my first one) and came very close to ordering the 2006 530xi, but I am currently torn between this and the new Infiniti M35x. My heart says 530xi (I have lusted over the 5 for a while), while my head says that the M35x is a better value for money (and more powerful and reliable, etc.). Can someone convince me one way or another? Help...!

msu79gt82 · June 2005

This human comedy I am involved in has taken over a year and I still haven't decided what I want to be driving 7 weeks from now.

Ditto

I've been actively looking and researching since March (passively since Dec) and still no decision. My biggest difference is that I have no deadline or am I in any hurry. I'm just not totally satisfied with an '04 FX35 and want to replace it with an LPS. Good luck.

hpowders · June 2005

I drove the GS300 today and was much more impressed with it than the GS430.
I couldn't get used to the gimmicky steering(like BMW's active steering) and the grabby brakes on the GS430. The GS 300 had normal brakes and steering. A pleasure.
Just not used to the thinner steering wheel after driving BMW's for the last 12 years.
Also, the Lexus has much more low end torque than my 325i. You really have to be careful when you step on the gas. The Lexus can really shoot forward! The V6 seemed more than adequate and can help achieve up to 30 mpg.
So my choice boils down to the BMW 330i with sports package or the GS300.
I may have slightly more legroom in the 330i and the thigh support is nice to have. But even with the 330i, I notice the torque just isn't there right away like it is with the Lexus when you step on the gas.
And the Lexus sure is a looker. And that lumbar support is to die for!

msu79gt82 · June 2005

I'd deal with the outside for the interior and ride. The outside of a the car never has to be perfect. For me it's the inside does and road manners. Styling is all subjective and a compromise at best, anyway.

Ditto - I agree 100%. I sit and live and drive on the inside of the car. The interior takes on far greater importance than the exterior in my decision process.

nebraskaguy · June 2005

Ditto - I agree 100%. I sit and live and drive on the inside of the car. The interior takes on far greater importance than the exterior in my decision process.

That's why the snide remarks about the RL's lack of styling pizzaz have never bothered me. As long as it's not ugly, I really don't care that much about the exterior.

cmybimmergo · June 2005

Which one, six months down the road, will you regret not having bought? That's the one to buy. I'm not being flip about this. When I bought my 02 530 in December, I hadn't planned to buy it. I thought I was going to buy a 330...until the salesman convinced me to drive the 5. And while the first test drive was only five minutes (because they had cleaned it with some chemical that was making me sick), by the time I got home that day I already was referring to it as *my* car. There were some minor things about it that I didn't like, but I while didn't consider them dealbreakers, it was enough to prompt me to look around more before committing myself. And the more I looked around, the clearer it was to me that I really wanted not just a 5, but that one in particular--and if I didn't buy it, I was going to regret it. So I bit, and I'm satisfied with my choice.

My advice to you is to drive them both until you have no doubt in your mind which one you must have. And if you have made yourself and everyone else around you crazy with this and you still can't come to a conclusion, then (as my dad always says) it really doesn't matter which you choose.

lexusguy · June 2005

Well thats another reason, I dont think the Phaeton drives all that well. Without the benefit of the A8's ASF, its mostly steel, and weighs as much as an SUV, and drives like it. Luxury sedan yes, performance? No.

Freddybb, you dont want one of us to tell you which car to get. This is going to be your car, not one of ours, and it needs to be your decision as to which car you think is better. If it were me, I'd get the M35x, mainly for the reasons you state, but thats just my opinion.

hpowders, interesting, so the GS is back in the game eh? I thought you said that you didnt like the seats though?

hpowders · June 2005

When I got into the GS430 way back when, the seat was set low and with it in that position, the seatback couldn't be adjusted vertically and my back was strained. I should have said something to the salesman, but instead, I suffered in silence. The next time I drove it, I complained about the seat from the previous test drive and the salesman showed me that when the seat bottom is raised, the seatback becomes more vertical. Today when I got in the car, I almost became emasculated as the previous driver's steering wheel setup almost clipped me you know where since he/she must have been very short! Also my hair was flush against the moonroof but I easily adjusted the seat back down.
I liked the GS300 quite a bit. Steering and brakes fabulously normal. No gimmicks as in the GS430.
Lumbar support to die for. Could use another 3 inches of legroom but at 6'2", most of it legs, this is
always a problem with me.
I told the salesman to send me a lease offer. He told me it will take longer to get a GS300 than a
GS430 because the former is in greater demand which also probably translates to "don't expect the great deal I was giving you with the slow-selling GS430." I told him I have until August 2nd.
Going down to the dealer on the highway, I finally saw my first 2006 GS- - - on the road. The driver was going so fast, I couldn't tell which model it was. The driver was having a ball. Must have been the day after the break-in period.

turnbowm · June 2005

Only you can make that decision.... M35X or 530xi. I went through the same process some months ago on the GS300 vs. 530i. No question that the Lexus had far better reliability, but got hooked on the superb handling and heavier Euro feel of the 530i. The deciding factor for me was the fact that I actually got excited EVERY time that I got behind the wheel of the Bimmer. Long story short, a 2005 530i sits in the garage next to my wife's ultra-reliable Lexus. Good luck with your decision.

Martin

markcincinnati · June 2005

You can have a 6 speed manual with the BMW -- if these are your two choices, the BMW wins hands down on this alone. Of course if you are "shiftless," why bother with the BMW?

I know the owner of one of the BMW dealers here in Cincinnati, he was joking with me that he sends "drivers" (manual transmission) to this salesperson and "passengers" (auto transmission) to that salesperson because "never the twain shall meet" (or words to that effect.)

I asked the owner of the BMW store what his personal daily driver was (knowing that he could have any one of the BMW's on the market) he said a 2005 X3 3.0 with all options except automatic. His fun car is a 1999 M3 (also with a stick).

With some anticipation, then, I went to the grand opening and unveiling of the new 3 series -- they had 6 cars on the showroom floor. Yet, only one was a stick.

I asked "why" after the comments pertaining to auto vs stick -- the answer, "we can't keep the manual transmission versions in stock."

I breathed a sigh of relief.

Of course, here I am awaiting a new M35X with an automatic. I think I should have my head examined sometimes. I'll go out and drive my wife's X3 for my manual "fix" -- she sure as heck won't touch my automatic.

OK, enough of the manual vs auto stuff -- from what I have read, both the 3 and the GS will be fine choices. One (regardless of the transmission) is more geared toward "involved" driving (BMW) and one is geared more for "isolated" riding (Lexus). Both cars' reviews seem to be saying that their manufacturers hit the nail on the head for their respective and intended customers.

freddybb · June 2005

Thank you all for the awesome feedback. I made my tough choice yesterday -- and it was the manual 530xi!

I wanted to make this decision quickly before I drove everybody around me crazy! So I went and drove the M35x first and found it to be a very solid, large, fast car with an unbelievable package of goodies and gadgetry for the price. And I was not as turned off by the exterior as the photos made me feel -- especially the picture with the car looking like a blowfish. I really liked this car and my feeling that it would be the rational choice was greatly reinforced.

Then, I went next door to a BMW dealership. Just walking up to the 5 series had me getting excited, and even before I drove a manual 5 series I knew that I was going to get it. I realized how much I missed a manual shifter, and I actually really like the low-slung cat-like look of the new 5 series. And then I drove it and could not wait to take it home!

Summary of reasons for this decision:

- Manual transmission (the xDrive with a manual is the clincher).
- Exterior looks (yes, I prefer the 5 series look).
- More connectedness to the driving experience (not that I am a race car driver or anything, but the M35x just creates too much of a cocoon).
- Cleaner, more spartan interior (I felt overwhelmed by the gadgetry and the large overwhelming center console of the M35x -- also hated the front console canted towards the top, that's a real problem for me).

You are all correct -- go with what you won't regret, and I clearly felt that if I got the M35x I would ALWAYS regret not getting the manual 5.

I am thrilled with my choice and there is no looking back!!! Yee haaa!

Shipo, thanks for the private email help along the way...

markcincinnati · June 2005

I hope someone from Audi reads your post -- the A6 with a manual would be, I think, a sales success. I know nothing of Infiniti sticks, but the M35X would seem to be begging to be sold with a stick too.

Congratulations.

How did you equip the 530x?

:confuse:

freddybb · June 2005

Here's what I got for $2500 off the MSRP of $58205:

2006 530xi
Manual transmission
Black Sapphire metallic with gray leather interior
Cold weather package
Premium package
Premium sound package
Rear side airbags
Rear sunshades
Park distance control
Navigation system
Head-up display

hpowders · June 2005

My quest for replacement wheels for my soon-ending 2002 BMW 325i lease has ended.
I got a very good leasing deal on a 2005 BMW 545i.
The best part is I had it configured in such a way that there is no way it can be sitting on some dealer's lot since January just waiting to plague me with computer software problems.
I ordered comfort seats(try and find them on any lot!), fold down rear seat and steptronic automatic transmission. That's it.
The wonderful words I was longing to hear from the salesman when I asked him when I will get the car: "Well, the car will be built in August."
It seems that early examples of this model up to around March had software problems.
This car should be coming to me with all necessary software updates and bugs worked out.
You may want to arrest me but I have sat in several cars with iDrive and I actually found it fun. Of course, I only played around with it when the cars were parked.

richcream · June 2005

Before or after tax?

lexusguy · June 2005

Perhaps the rest of the auto industry is content to leave the stick shoppers to BMW? The $40-65K mid-lux sedan with a manual transmition has to be a pretty small niche, at least in this market. It also seems to me that the 5 is the car that would benefit most from a manual. Why make the effort to fight BMW for such a tiny slice? I think the Infiniti would be a more likely candidate for a possible stick than the Audi...but most of the sticks in G35s seem to be in coupes. I dont think its a particularly popular option for the sedan.

freddybb · June 2005

Before tax, I believe. MSRP is always before taxes, right?

markcincinnati · June 2005

Never in a million years, at this point, would I have believed at this (the 11th hour) time, Audi of America would "reach out and touch me."

Never in a million years? Why?

Since my participation here on edmunds and some other "Audi centric" web logs began some years ago, I have never pulled any punches and as far as I can remember never burned any bridges (with Audi). I have complemented, defended Audis -- for the most part -- almost exclusively. Earlier this year, I was taken aback when the new Audis came out with what I perceived as a sharp price hike with respect to the cost of a lease. I was openly confused and frustrated that Audi was squandering "an opportunity" to capitalize on their newfound love affair with the world's automotive press (Best Car in the World, kind of thing, you know.)

My blogs got someone's attention at Business Week and they interviewed me for a piece they were doing on Audi (of America.) My name was prominently mentioned in a sidebar article in BW. I received dozens of emails from edmunds folks and from folks on Audi centric web log posting sites, too. I even heard from my local Audi dealer.

Perhaps you can imagine that I was pretty darn close to being shocked when I heard nothing from anyone representing Audi after my name was mentioned in the Business Week magazine article on March 14 of this year.

Yesterday an interesting phone call came to me -- Audi wants to keep me as a customer. I am cautiously optimistic about this situation and will report to this erudite audience when something "real" happens.

I am impressed that Audi has made an attempt to keep me as a customer -- for it surely seems like that is what they intend to do.

Film at eleven. . . .

Stay tuned.

kyfdx · June 2005

I stopped by to look at the new A3 a few weeks ago....

The salesman gave me a card that actually had his name printed on it!! Not someone else's scratched out, or anything...!!

I usually get the greenpeas....

tayl0rd · June 2005

What? It's a bit late isn't it? More like the first hour of the next day. You already have an M35, correct? What are they going to do, pay off that lease and put you in one of theirs?

chef_jmr · June 2005

What's that sound I'm hearing?... Is it? Could it be? An eighteen-wheeler slamming on it's brakes and turning around, with one fresh M35x headed back to Japan? uh, No, I think it was just another earthquake in California...BUT:

Maybe Audi has finally gotten a clue, packaging all those little additions together in a well-thought-out option... Or, maybe they decided that a $50k car SHOULD have a power steering wheel column, no matter what engine size.
And that your almost 30 years as an Audi owner means SOMETHING. Something BIG! After reading all your history and insights, I, too, have started looking elsewhere to spend my "hard-earned dollar". Even considering the 5-series, along with the Infiniti M. Luxury should not infer gouging; performance isn't exclusive to the Germans anymore.

I eagerly await your "news"...maybe an A6 will end up in my driveway this Fall.

markcincinnati · June 2005

As I recall, literally on April 1st (which made some folks here think I was telling an "April Fool's" joke) I gave a deposit to an Infiniti Internet dealer. The car was to be here in August.

In May there was yet no VIN number.

I do NOT have the M35X -- and if this all goes to heck in a handbasket, I have no problem in letting this play out.

However, Audi has "verbally" given me an offer that essentially matches the Infiniti offer (it is $8.00 less per month on the lease, same terms otherwise). And, if y'all remember I have always said, in sum, what I expected from Audi was for them to be competitive. :surprise:

"Verbally" they have the car I want, the color and options I would have chosen had I been able two or three months ago to have a warm and fuzzy feeling were going to be "competitively priced."

I have asked the Infiniti dealer to advise me regarding the disposition of my deposit. I have no reason to believe there is an issue with this since I did not order some weird or unpopular configuration (Journey, Tech/Sirius, rear deck spoiler and splash guards) or "custom color" (like Lime Green Metallic).

I know of no ethical way the deposit would be forfeited -- and although I would NOT be a happy camper if the Infiniti dealer finds some way to keep the deposit, I certainly will, under that circumstance, be willing to keep the M35X that is not yet in the US and complete the transaction at that time.

The one element of this that is frustrating is that two of the guys I work with just bought new cars (they bought them sight unseen over the telephone). The way they worked the deal (each of them did this) was to pit one dealer against the other via phone until one dealer walked from the transaction.

I have ALWAYS dealt with "Insert name here" at the Audi dealer -- practically since 1977 when I bought my first one. I have referred hundreds of prospective Audi owners to the dealer and dozens of them have been converted to customers. I have allowed prospective buyers (for allroads) to test drive my car (a manual transmission) when prospects for a new stick shift allroad would come into the dealership (they keep NO sticks in stock). I have -- oh heck, you all have heard about my trips to Germany to Ingolstadt and Audis driving school numerous times before -- suffice it to say I have been a one man Audi marketing machine for over 25 years.

So what is just a little irritating is that "combat shopping" techniques seem to work as well as or better than being a long-term loyal customer.

For years I actually believed (and still do) that there is value in building relationships with vendors and for vendors to do this with their customers (I own a 20 year old consulting company and relationships are paramount). Yet, Audi seems to have dropped the ball. I was only "valuable" enough to recognize my loyalty after I had left the nest, so to speak.

This is, to me, comparable to the boss who only gives the employee who quits a raise (you reward me for quitting, not for staying is THAT message). Audi seems willing to recognize 25 years of loyalty ONLY at the moment that I stop being loyal. Is this screwed up or am I? :confuse:

In any case, better late than never, more or less. Audi has "verbally" put together the circumstances that will keep me in the fold, make a profit for the dealer and get me the car I wanted all along in the first place (well, in the spirit of full disclosure, I had requested the "Sport Package" a $1,250 option and they countered with the 18" wheels with UHP all season tires (the tires I wanted anyway, the Sport Package comes with Summer Only tires) which is a $1,000 option. So the car they are offering me is dead on, minus the sport suspension (which apparently is a $250 mark up over the 18" wheels and tires by themselves).

Other than that, we are where I wanted to be -- unless this is only a "verbal" offer, I will move forward, unhook the Inifiniti deal and go with a new Audi A6 3.2 with all the bells and whistles.

Maybe I just got lost in the system.

Maybe.

Kirstie_H · June 2005

A reporter is interested in speaking with baby boomer women who have decided to indulge themselves by buying or leasing a luxurious or dream car. If you live in either Riverside County or San Bernardino County in Southern California and would be interested in speaking with this reporter, please send your name, daytime phone number and the car you purchased or leased to Pam Krebs, Edmunds.com PR, at pkrebs@edmunds.com by end of day Tuesday, June 21. Thank you

rangerwalker · June 2005

Although I haven't been a very active participant on these boards, I have followed your saga for some time, as I was also deciding between these cars (and also coming off an allroad lease). The twists and turns and cliff-hanger ending - but maybe there's more to come . . .

After a couple of test drives, I had put a deposit down on the M35x, and felt it was the wise choice, based on expected reliability, dealer service and overall value. I liked the interior design, the spaciousness, and power.

When I went to pick up the car, it just didn't feel "right". Seats not comfortable no matter how much I tried, and an over-powering chemical smell that made me ill (I've been told it wears off in a couple of months). I knew I would have questioned this decision for a long time if I took delivery and drove home that day. The deposit was refunded.

I went over to a large Audi dealer. Compared to my prior visit a couple of months before, they had a large selection of A6s - a great selection of options and colors. And although the MSRP for a vehicle similarly equipped to the M35 was several thousand higher, they were able to come up with a lease deal equal to or slightly better than the Infiniti. Everything seemed to fall into place, and this was the right choice.

I keep reading that the M35 is faster to the next stoplight, but I have been pleasantly surprised at the repsonsiveness of the Audi 3.2 engine, and I am getting better mileage than on the allroad 2.7T (I've been getting 22 regularly and that's with a lot of city driving included). The only thing I would change in retrospect, is the 18" wheels with 40-aspect ratio tires (all-season). It is a very firm ride, and I think it could use some additional cushioning (also based on some rather rough roads in the NY/NJ area).

Although not really important in the scheme of things, these discussions are a fun diversion. I await the next installment in the mini-series.

bondguy1 · June 2005

Congrats on getting the "right" car. What color combination did you choose? Also, did you lease or purchase? Wondering what the deals are now...mine listed for $51,770 and I leased it at $48,001. Also, are they still offering loyalty money or did it really end the end of May? As a previous Audi owner, not as long as or as dedicated as you are, I noticed right away the solidness of the car. It has a solid feel and the rigidness or lack of creaks and noises and the overall quietness is uncanny. I was doing 85MPH the other day and didn't even realize I was going that fast. Again, congrats on getting the car and congrats to the other guy in the following post for going with the Audi too. One more thing, Mark. Check out the interior lights that are located under the wood door inserts that glow bright white at night on all four doors...they are a strip of LED's. It really looks like an airplane's cockpit at night...very cool.

msu79gt82 · June 2005

So what is just a little irritating is that "combat shopping" techniques seem to work as well as or better than being a long-term loyal customer.

For years I actually believed (and still do) that there is value in building relationships with vendors and for vendors to do this with their customers (I own a 20 year old consulting company and relationships are paramount). Yet, Audi seems to have dropped the ball. I was only "valuable" enough to recognize my loyalty after I had left the nest, so to speak.

I'm afraid that the only true loyalty is to the almighty dollar. Back in Dec '03 I told my Acura sales rep (we had an '01 MDX) that for various reasons we had never ever bought a second vehicle from a dealership - and asked him did he want to be the first. Low and behold he did indeed make us an offer we couldn't refuse and we traded for an '04 MDX. I thought there may actually be something to this loyalty stuff after all.

However I tried in Aug '04 to get a new TL and they refused to give a good price; so much for loyalty - I guess 3rd time was not the charm. I ended up getting an '04 FX35. Now I'm discussing trading the FX for an M and I'm not sure how the loyalty thing will play; looks like I may have to play internet combat.

markcincinnati · June 2005

I'm getting the phone mail jail treatment right now from Infiniti -- and I find that ODD?!?

But, I must assume that there is no issue and no way that I could lose my deposit, so I will be positive: The A6 3.2, is as follows:

Cambridge Green Pearl
Amaretto Premium Leather
18" UHP tires + wheels
Parktronic
Sirius Sat Radio
Sat Navigation
Voice recognition
Smart Key
Premium Package
Convenience Package
Winter Package

and all standard stuff -- that is all from memory.

The MSRP is $53,030 or something like that it is $53 something anyway.

No up fronts, no sec deposit, no plate fee -- they will just transfer the allroad to the A6.

Car just came off the boat, so they say -- it is an '05. I told them I would not mind either year just so long as they met my criteria. The Sline, which would have been nice just seems like a lot of money (and I am certain they would not have felt I was doing the apples to apples thing with that addition over the M35X.)

After all, I had told them for cars that I considered comparable, I thought competitive pricing should be the rule.

All things considered, IF this all works out, I will be pleased.

And, you know what, if this doesn't work out, I'll just "settle" for the M35X.

I had not selected the M35X out of some displeasure with Audi cars (my main product quibble is that I think they should NOT have brought a car out at this price point that couldn't crack 0-60 in 7.0 seconds (truth be told, I do not plan to drag race, I just think the car should be quicker -- I'll get by.) Likewise if I had to live with the M35X that would not be all that bad. I just have been an Audi guy for nearly 30 years and although I think they are in deep do do vis a vis the competition, I will not feel like some little brother who always gets the hand me downs.

The fat lady hasn't made a peep, yet -- the opera ain't over!

Stay tuned.

P.S. my attorney wife says she can think of no legal reason Infiniti could keep the deposit, but its not her area of practice so she's just making an educated guess.

Anyone here know how they could keep the deposit? (Answer to first question, other than a credit app, I signed nothing).

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