Luxury Performance Sedans

maxhonda99 · November 2004

Lexusguy,

Can you post a link to the NJ/PA Lemon law website?

lexusguy · November 2004

Sure can. http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html

Looks like the A6 is way down this year, but congrats to A4 for making the top 3!

rroyce10 · November 2004

........ Where's the Hyundai/Kia's ...? .. there's only a few thousand of those bad boys that go through the auctions with the "MBB/NW" sticker plastered all over their windshield .....

Terry.

safelder · November 2004

I'm looking for input/opinions from anybody else who decided between the RL and the A6 and why. I'm torn between the two...but it seems to be "little things" that are upsetting me (lack of height adjustment on passenger seat and fold down rear seat in Acura, or less technology in the Audi). For the record, my immediate family has owned nothing but Audis for the last 20 years, but they seem to be getting progressively less reliable; everyone I know with a Japanese car praises their reliabliity.

algoodman · November 2004

I traded in a 2001 BMW 530i for a 2005 Acura RL. I test drove an Audi A6 4.2 before deciding on the RL. The A6 was very nice inside but the handling would have been a step down from the 530i. The suspension felt stiff and over a non-smooth road allowed every bump to be felt.The reliability of the Audi is also questionable. The RL handling was not a step down from the BMW but was different and better in some ways (e.g., in a high speed turn). It should also be more reliable than the Audi. I have over 1500 miles on the RL and have no regrets about my car choice.

lexusguy · November 2004

If you want the car to be dependable, I would stick with Acura. The A6 has a nasty reliability history (even for an Audi), and they've gone down in recent years, not up. The Acura will be faster than the A6 3.2, and cost significantly less than the A6 4.2. Its AWD system is, sorry Audi guys, but SH-AWD is better than Audi's torsen Quattro system.

jgaines · November 2004

My cousin and I test drove the RL and A6 back to back yesterday. His comment about the RL said it all "very nice accord!". The RLreminded me of the old Mitsubishi's with every kind of bell and wistle, but no substance. The 300 hp engine was also nothing to write home about. I have no doubt that the RL will be more reliable than the Audi, but as for a luxury car, the a6 seemed a much better pick all around.

lexusguy · November 2004

I have to agree somewhat that the RL is not what I had hoped it would be. It has plenty of substance, but no flash. Imagine if Acura had waited until Q1 '06 to launch, and Infiniti and Lexus had already launched their new models. I wonder if anyone would even notice.

vatitan · November 2004

My wife an i were very impressed with the m45. I see the 06' is scheduled to be re-styled, etc. Where are the 05's?

I have read posts with reference to $7k manufacturer to dealer marketing rebates that have dwindled to $4k currenlty. Are the rebates being applied to Invoice (like the Nissan Titan i just purchased)? What prices are possible with this intriging car that seems very much in transition?

Many Thanks

lexusguy · November 2004

I would strongly suggest you wait for the new car. Its not just a reskinning, the entire thing is all new. The outgoing car is built on the Q45's rather sloppy platform, with the Q45's ugly "minivan" dash and controls. The new car is built on a stretched version of the G35's platform that is even stronger than before. The new car should be world class, possibly the best weapon Japan has against BMW 5 and Audi A6. The old car was not. Its only a few years old, but sales were absolutely anemic. Here's some pictures of old vs. new:

jrock65 · November 2004

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/2294- 6/sort/1/size/medium/cat/6246/page/

I think the interior of the new Avalon is very nice. Kinda reminds me of a more flattened 2006 M35/45 dash.

cheerioboy26 · November 2004

I'm pretty sure there are no 2005 M45s. The 2006 is due to go on sale Feb. 28, 2005.

lexusguy · November 2004

I agree. One thing though, did you notice that Avalon's gauge cluster is literally a dead ringer for the Acura TSX?

I remember reading on C&D's website that I35 and M45 were killed for 2005. Thats not uncommon to skip a model year. I was rather surprised that Lexus bothered to make an '05 GS. I guess because the new one isnt coming until I think the end of March, but still, thats an awfully short run for the '05 GS, and it has to be a really tough sell for dealers.

hpowders · November 2004

I currently drive a 2002 BMW with limited front legroom. I am 6'2". I am so tired of sitting in luxury performance cars and being disappointed with the legroom situation. Is there anyone out there who knows several recent or upcoming models in the luxury performance category that I will be able to test drive with generous (at least 44 inches or more) front legroom? The 2006 Lexus GS? The 2006 Infiniti M? I will be leasing in August, 2005.
Thank you.

rwoods · November 2004

I purchased an '04 Lexus GS430 with all the goodies on May 3rd for $50,000. It includes Nav,Levinson, summer tires, spoiler and XM satellite radio. The dealer knock $5,000 off the sticker and gave me 3.95% financing for 60 months. I'm very very satisfied with this car. I was between this and the LS430 which was about 12-14,000 more. My only quibble with the GS 430 is the ride is a little rough on poor roads of which Long Island has a few. But on the open road it is perfect. This is my first V8 engine and I really enjoy the smooth, powerful torque along with great passing power. The interior is very luxurious. I can really appreciate the Lexus after spending a couple of weeks with my new '05 Subaru Outback XT Ltd wagon I recently purchased. The Subie is very utilitarian for traveling with my pet but upon returning the the Lexus GS I remembered what luxury and power were all about.

mtjohn · November 2004

I am 6'2" and own a 2001 530ia SP and I had the same issue with leg room. I always felt that I needed at least another inch or more to get comfortable. The good news (if yours is a 530) is that there is a clip in the track behind the drivers seat that you can remove with a screwdriver or needle-nose pliers (it just pops out--not sure if there was one on each side). It will give you at least another two inches of legroom. For me it made all the difference.

jrock65 · November 2004

I think it's more useful to quote combined legroom rather than just front leg room. Manufacturer #1 can quote 44 front/ 35 back, and manufacturer #2 can quote 42 front / 39 back. #2 has obviously has more room. In any case, these are the figures for combined legroom.

2006 M: 81.5
STS: 80.9
RL: 78.7
A6: 78.2
5: 77.5
E: 77.5
2006 GS: ?

Looks like the M or STS may be the car for you.

jrock65 · November 2004

The 2006 M has 44.2 inches of front legroom.

The 2002 5 series has 41.7 inches of front legroom.

hpowders · November 2004

Thanks a lot folks for your input on the legroom issue. I went to the auto show in Tampa recently and was disappointed with so many luxury cars. The 530i had me very cramped, jrock65. Even the LS 430 which claims 44" seemed a bit stingy. When they claim 44", does this take into account maximum seat travel backward? I can't wait to try the new M-may be a godsend-great performance and reliability!
Thanks.

hpowders · November 2004

Hey thanks anyway, mtjohn, but the car is a 330 on a lease with less than a year to go. Rather than try and tinker with the seat which I'm sure BMW Financial Services would frown on, I have vowed to do my homework next time and test drive as many vehicles as I can so this doesn't happen again. I owned a 1993 325 and just assumed the legroom would be about the same or better in a 2002 330. Well, after signing a 3 year lease, I was totally dismayed at how much less seat travel there was in the new car and also at how much less comfortable the seat was. Should have tested it. Never would have leased it. Now I can go more upscale and from what others have said in this forum, the 2006 M45 just might be the one. I will definitely test it for myself when it comes out.

designman · November 2004

Rather than try and tinker with the seat which I'm sure BMW Financial Services would frown on, I have vowed to do my homework next time and test drive as many vehicles as I can so this doesn't happen again.

The tip mtjohn mentioned takes all of 5 seconds and you can replace the clip. I think this tip actually appears on the BMW website with a photo. I believe it was div2 who gave me the link in the BMW 5-Series Owners: Problems & Solutions thread over a year ago. Look it up, it should still be there. It's actually easier than opening the hood of your car.

hpowders · November 2004

I posted the seat travel question on the 3-Series Problems and Solutions forum.

designman · November 2004

I don't know if it's the same on the 330 but it doesn't hurt to look into it. Since you don't know what to look for I can see your trepidation. Either look on the BMW website or throw out the question in either the 5 or 3-series thread. I'm sure div2 or someone else will give you the answer.

I see you edited your last post. Good, you should get the answer and hopefully you can do it. I was miserably cramped. That little tip was major.

disaac · November 2004

the M will be 44 plus -- see the specs on their website.

disaac · November 2004

oops -- that's what i get for replying before finishing the thread!! i am 6'3" and have similar issues so i can sympathize. i am also excited about the M for this reason.

hpowders · November 2004

Well, we will find out next Spring about the legroom issue when we can finally drive the M.

soapkng · December 2004

I looked at most of the cars listed on this board - the Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc. I went with the RL for a number of reasons and, after two weeks with it so far, I love it! Yes, the styling can be a bit 'dull', but it really has some nice lines. The lighting is great with the new led's, the doorhandles are beautiful, the interior is top notch and so ergonomic - the great cupholders alone are worth the cost. The nav and traffic is amazing, though I've learned already (living in LA with the most comprehensive reported system) that it can be a good 10-20 minutes behind what's actual and that can be enough to let you run into a jam, but even with that, the nav is excellent at getting you there with tremendous accuracy (it recalculates so fast if/when you go off the intended route). The bluetooth is awesome ( I have a V710)! The handling is near what my 528 was (ok, I say this with a grain of salt, but for a Japanese car it comes pretty damn close!) with great steering feel, no dead center and great responsiveness. The auto shifts like butter and if you put it in manual mode the paddle shifters work flawlessly. The SH-AWD does a great job if you throw the car into a turn - It's great to watch the dash (when the wheel isn't in the way) and see the graphic of where the car is distrubuting power as it throws the extra power to the outer rear wheel to get you through. The stereo is amazing, especially if you throw in a DVD-audio and enjoy the true 5.1 surround. The active noice-cancelling tech works to really quiet the car to a vault-like silence and makes talking on the phone through the bluetooth a pleasure. I'm not crazy about the button on the handle to lock the doors, an actual button (as my recent Touareg had) worked much better, but it's still a nice feature. The remote has nice range and the lights (which turn with the steering) also work really well to light a turn. I am a bit disappointed in the mileage so far - averaging about 16 mixed with only about 24 on pure highway, not really up to the 18/26 (or so - I can't remember the exact numbers) as predicted. I wish the rear seat folded too, as this is the first japanese car I've known that doesn't, but it's worth it for the sound system, remote-folding hearests and power sunshade - and the great rear sub-woofer. I also wish we (in the US) could get the RL with the air-conditioned seats as I read can be had in Canada - I mean, I live in the hot climate, why do they get it? I wanted to get aftermarket 18" rims (why the hell would I pay the dealer $2,500 for those ugly chrome ones (the only ones they offer) when they'd then take the 17" ones with no exchange...I mean, I will get 18" and then sell my 17" and probably break even and have a hot set of rims. BUT, I can't get any rims yet since Acura apparently changed the lug and hub layout and size...so I wait patiently for the wheel manufactures to create some options for this ride. Ok, I think that's enough...I can go on, but you get the idea...overall it's a great car, no regrets, but there are a few improvements it can make. Oh, one pet peave on the car - even if the light switch is on 'auto' (where you should never have to touch it and it should do its job), the car still beeps at you when you shut the car off and open the door. The only cure is to turn the switch to off (and I usually just return it back to 'auto' so when I re-enter the car they will come on as needed), but, since the dash lights the same way day or night, it is easy (as I have done already) to drive away with the lights out if you thought it was in auto and you are in a city area - that's quite a run-on sentence!

Any questions?

jrock65 · December 2004

October 2004 Sales:

E: 5,011
5: 4,229
STS: 2,308
RL: 1,310
A6: 534
GS: 651
M45: 157

*Note that the GS, A6, and M are not the next-generation models.

----------------------------------------------------------------

November 2004 sales:

E: 4,925
5: 3,622
STS: 2,771
RL: 1,941
A6: 1,931
GS: 498
M45: 123

lexusguy · December 2004

Hm, the RL seems to be doing quite well, I think Acura will be very pleased with those numbers. A6 also picked up some healthy sales. Perhaps, looking at those figures, at the expense of the BMW 5?

cove148 · December 2004

jrock,

Good stuff!
Any information on the Lexus LS?
Can you share the site that you obtain this information?
Thanks

jrock65 · December 2004

cove,

Lexus sold 2529 LS, which is best in class.

The info is available at autochannel.com.

lexusguy,

Yep, the RL seems to be doing fine. However, the big test will come when the GS and M come to the market, as they will undoubtedly be the biggest competitors.

It does look like the A6 took some sales away from the 5, as I'm sure that people who prefer the "German" image and steering feel would have cross-shopped those cars.

There really doesn't seem to be any duds in this class. Even when the GS and M come out, I expect the RL to sell about 1500 per month, and the GS and M somewhat above that. It's a great time to be shopping in this class.

lexusguy · December 2004

Well, the biggest gain for november was A6 with 1500 new sales, and the biggest loser was BMW with 800 lost sales. I think that means you can figure a good portion of those 1500 sales that went to Audi considered the BMW 5 and passed on it.

kdshapiro · December 2004

I think some of the "Lost" sales are wait sales. I myself am putting off a purchase until I can get an model with an updated engine.

jrock65 · December 2004

Is the 5 getting the 255-hp 3.0L engine next year?

lovemyclk · December 2004

I believe the new 3.0 will be available in March production cars.

jrock65 · December 2004

Some new photos of the M are on the Infiniti website:

http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/infiniti2006/infiniti_m.shtm- - l

I like this interior the best.

http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/infiniti2006/infiniti_m/800/- 04_2006_m.jpg

lexusguy · December 2004

enough teasing Infiniti! Bring on the car!

cheerioboy26 · December 2004

ha ha. I wonder if they put those pics out sincea red m45 was just spotted on the road and pics appeared on another forum on Thursday.

r2917 · December 2004

The new M sounds like it will be a fantastic car but I am just not feeling the interior. For the most part I like the exterior but the interior layout just looks weird to me.

I don't like how the stereo controls are totally surrounded by wood and it looks way out of place compared to the nav/climate controls.

I do like the wheel & instrument cluster housing though.

Rob

lexusguy · December 2004

I actually think the new M has one of the best interiors in the class. Its got the elegance of the new GS, but more flash and pizazz. It doesnt make the mistake of being in a giant's shadow like RL, and it doesnt try to be a HAL 9000 like Audi A6.

jrock65 · December 2004

I read from a very reliable source on another board that the official horsepower of the M45 will be 335, and not 340. He said that the decrease in hp enabled them to raise torque and still meet EPA requirements. Anyways, the increase in torque resulted in a very impressive 0 to 60 time. All the figures will be release at the Detroit Auto Show.

Looks like they are hell bent on giving the 545 a run for its money.

tennis1003 · December 2004

Does anyone know when the 2006 Lexus GS300 is scheduled to arrive in showrooms? I am considering a new BMW 530 or Acura RL. I have until 4/05 to decide.

lexusguy · December 2004

It should be sometime in late march or april, about the same time as the new Infiniti M35\45 is launched. Between the BMW and Acura, get the Acura.

laurasdada · December 2004

When I attended the NE Int'l Auto Show in November, the '06 GS was there. It received absolutely no attention although I checked it out. While an improvement stylistically over the current version (a styling mistake not quite on par with a CTS but just an odd assortment of shapes and sizes. I always think of an egg lying sideways in an egg holder when I see one...?), it still disappointed me.

The M45 was not available at the show to compare/contrast. The Acura RL was drawing a nice crowd.

I did get some nice Scion key chains and a very bright red Toyota hat...

hpowders · December 2004

Yeah. I saw the new GS in Tampa and it looked disappointingly bloated when viewed from the side. Right-like an egg. Can't wait to see and drive the new M45 in a few months. Photos of the M look much better than the GS.

designman · December 2004

The new GS looks like Quasimoto. The butt on the M45 is hideous. Those tail lamps have to go.

carnaught · December 2004

As observed in the above posts, I also was disappointed with the new GS seen at my local auto show.

The car from the side is a bloated looking Maxima. The interior (at least in black) was not up to the usual stylish Lexus standards.

safelder · December 2004

Bingo. I saw both at the DC Auto Show yesterday. IMHO, the GS is the nicer of the two. Aesthetically, the RL beats them both IF you have the spoiler. Otherwise, the RL is also pretty ho-hum. None of them were getting much attention. The A6, on the other hand, was pretty popular. Huge crowds, and there were 3 on the floor. The Acura had the next largest crowd. While I was there, two or three people were looking at the GS, and nobody was looking at the M--and there was nobody handy to pitch either.

BTW, I agree with the earlier post that the RL beats the BMW.

lexusguy · December 2004

It may all depend on the time, and wether there's any kind of presentation or not. When I was at the NYAS, not a single person was paying any attention to the RL, it was just sitting on the floor with no kind of anything to point out it was a brand new car. The GS and M were on huge rotating platforms, and during the presentations both got big crowds, though the GS's was the bigger of the two. The A6 had more attention than the RL, but not by much. Mercedes was the only area that was mobbed, basically because of the SLR McLaren.

hpowders · December 2004

Why is it so difficult for some automakers to design appealing vehicles? Why can't they show photos of prospective designs to people like us and get feedback from real people?

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