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  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    I would agree with you regarding automatic (My last stick was a 93 Vigor) and I would never go back to a clutch. But there are still a lot of drivers out there that love stick and will never change.

    Incidently have you ever tried titanium shafts?
    (I play in the low 80s. If it's any hotter than that, I won't play. :shades: )
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    When something sounds too good to be true then it is too good to be true! And that truth also applies to biodiesels!

    Biofuels are mainly sold in mixtures. In most of the USA it is sold as E10 gasahol which consists of 10% ethanol and 90% standard gasoline. In Europe it is sold as B5 which consists of standard diesel mixed with 5% biodiesel--made from canola oil. Some N. American commercial vehicles use B20.

    The unmixed 100% biodiesel used in California would be quite useless where I live in Toronto since it is cold-weather sensitive!

    Ethanol in its pure form can damage gaskets and hoses.

    BUT as technology improves the % of biodiesel blends can only improve--unless the price of an oil barrel plummets to $20 and all such biodiesel endeavors would be written off as a financial waste. It should not be forgotten that low oil prices had a similar affect about a 100 years ago when Rudolf Diesel introudced his engine that ran on peanut oil.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The TV show featuring a "how to" of biodiesel used a 2002 Dodge Ram truck -- no modifications were done to the engine.

    The show's host went to a Burger King, got some spent vegetable oil from the grease container behind the BK, brewed up some biodiesel and literally poured it into the gas tank (20 gallons). Next he took the truck out on the road and proclaimed other than a smell of french fries from the tail pipe, the Dodge truck's engine worked "normally."

    No conversion was needed to do this.

    And, the vegetable oil was "free."

    The "chemistry set" used in this show was purchased from a web site and it looked like a small septic tank only funnel shaped and with a pump motor on the side. The procedure included dumping the corn oil into the tank and mixing it with some lye (and probably something else.)

    The cost per gallon was computed to be $.70 (seventy cents) accorind to the host (I know the show is one of the PowerBloc shows on Saturdays on SpikeTV.)

    Now, I would assume that were it as simple AND inexpensive as this segment made it out to be that many folks would be doing this -- I know of NO ONE who is even contemplating this.

    If all this is really true, it would seem the payback could be easily calculated based on gallons used+cost to create subtracted from the cost of a gallon of regular diesel at a pump.

    If, if, if, the host's declaration that the fuel cost net in the tank was $.70/gallon (and our cost here in Cincinnati for a gallon of diesel is $2.79), it would seem that based on 1,000 gallons annually the savings of $2.09 x 1,000 could be used to determine the economics of doing this as a practical matter.

    A $2,000+ annual reduction in fuel cost seems to be a worthwhile savings.

    And a mix of gasoline and alcohol is NOT what this segment of the TV show was about -- it was about producing a biodiesel that would run in an American truck that had NOT been in any way modified to use Burger King's grease (mostly from corn oil.)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Bangle board as sales of the E60 are up 15.8% since September 2004

    Maybe the public is not as Bangle de-sensitized as you may think!(though I am a closet Bangle fan myself)

    That 15.8% increase may be mainly due to the recent introduction of the 530xi and 530xi touring vehicles! As the xi novelty wears out in the next few months sales of the 5 series may not look as robust.

    Regarding your comment about the dangers of buying a BMW and keeping it beyond warranty! I own a 3 series for seven years and still did not reach personal bankruptcy! Maybe I am an exception, but with regards to maintenance my e46 has been Maytag-like!
  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    That's an interesting perspective, bmw45sport. I guess I never thought that stressing out on a hill with an annoying tail-gater behind you was the reason that people bought manual shifting cars! But then again, you are probably a more "authentic" manual shifter than I am, and that's fine by me. Since when does enjoyment = stress? And this is an infrequently used feature that really works well and is useful when you need it. 'nuff said, I guess.

    This message brought to you by an ordinary driver who just wants to have some fun but doesn't golf, so I have no idea what the graphite vs. hickory comment means! Happy to learn.
  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    Couldn't agree with you more hpowders. I have yet to meet a friend, colleague or passer-by who did not like the looks of my new 530xi, and I have countless examples of people who thought it looks awesome. And then when I tell them that I get 33+ mpg cruising on the highway in 6th gear they can't believe it!

    I have no idea where the dislike of the design comes from. I cannot stand the looks of the M or the new Audis because of their gaping open-fish-mouth front-ends (just a personal opinion, markcincinnati please don't yell at me for this!). Although, if the 5 did not exist I would, of course, be happy with one of these other excellent cars because I am not THAT picky!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I had a 1993 325i for 9 years. I leased it for 3 years and couldn't part with it so I bought it. The regular maintanance got to be pretty expensive into around year 5 and beyond.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The car is a lot nicer looking in person than in photographs. Very aggressive and sexy.

    It's nice to see at least one auto mag. revise their original negative opinion of the E60 Bangle design.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    I guess I never thought that stressing out on a hill with an annoying tail-gater behind you was the reason that people bought manual shifting cars!

    I was just kidding. Many members of the "row your own" club deem us "slushboxers" as a poor judge of sports sedans since we don't really drive our cars. Seemed like the opportune time to make a playful jab back the the other side.

    I'm sure the shifters feel more connected to their cars but I have no problem allowing the newer transmissions handle the job for me. In my case, they do a better job anyway. Two pedals and two hands on the wheel is complicated enough for me.

    Also, jj, I too play in the low 80's. Then unfortunately, I must leave the cool confines of the clubhouse and head for the #10 tee box.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I wouldn't dream of yelling at you. My wife's X3 has actually made quite a believer out of me.

    I like the looks of the "330xi" and really respect the 530xi, but I just can't get past the Pontiac front end.

    The Audi trout mouth is an aquired taste -- I am, at this point, not repulsed by it (but, to be clear, I am NOT repulsed by the 5 series either, but the butt of the 7, well fugetaboudit.)

    The profile of the Audi A6 is OK with me, and frankly the 5, too in profile looks good and very good with certain wheels (18").

    The cars discussed herein are so good and more alike than not, so if someone said "here, Mark, you HAVE to take a 530xi" I would gladly do so.

    Heck I almost bought an Infiniti M35X which I am still in the process of warming to, looks wise.

    What the heck do I know. . . :shades:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I will just cross my fingers and hope I will remain a happy exception!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .the main issue I have with BMW's (and I don't care what model we are talking about) is the fact that here in Cincinnati the dealer (the largest in Ohio) has hundreds of cars on his lot and 75% of them are Black or Silver with a Black leather interior and the dark wood or black wood interior trim.

    Any car, I don't care made by Audi, BMW or anyone, that is Black on Black on Black or Silver with Black and Black is just soooo darn depressing and in the case of BMW's there are so many of them. Doesn't anyone ever get a blue one or a red one or a white one or a green one and doesn't anyone ever get a camel leather colored interior or something other than Black for pity's sake.

    There was ONE white 530xi with the Terracotta interior on the lot, and I swear if the thing would have been a stick shift and would have had sat nav, I could've been tempted.

    But, like I said, BMW seems hell bent to populate the lots with Black and Silver -- Mercedes and Audi, at least it seems, like COLOR!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I will just cross my fingers and hope I will remain a happy exception!

    My secret:
    1)I avoid all electrical/electronic options which can be problem-prone.
    2)I found a competent and reasonable mechanic who I can trust(these kind of mechanics are hard to find but I guess I lucked out)
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Regarding i-drive: "You can really get to everything you need within 3 clicks. Most of the fussing you hear is based on old prejudices."

    Well, let's see: for example, if I have my map on the Nav. screen, to go directy to another radio station I've set I have to click to go back to the main menu, click on entertainment, scroll down to the desired station, then click twice to play that station. This is four to five motions or "clicks".

    While I too do not find the i-drive as bad as the press makes it, why not have (redundant) radio buttons to go directly to a station when you do not want to scroll up and down your stations with the steering wheel controls? This is only one example negating the point made by bdr127. I-drive was improved with making redundant climate control buttons available.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder:

    Every single car I owned, even non-BMWs were black on black. Would not have a a sedan any other way.

    Though in the future I may be hesitant about black on black for a future wagon model I am considering if it ends up looking hearse-like.
  • hendjazhendjaz Member Posts: 155
    "Well, let's see: for example, if I have my map on the Nav. screen, to go directy to another radio station I've set I have to click to go back to the main menu, click on entertainment, scroll down to the desired station, then click twice to play that station. This is four to five motions or "clicks". "

    Is this the only way to change the radio station in the current BMW 5 series? My 03 530 had the conventional preset buttons, but this was before I-drive. Now with an 05 Acura RL, I have a choice of three ways to change the radio station, being the conventional preset buttons, voice command or using the screen menus and dial. Its nice to have the choices and most often now use voice for a lot of these functions.

    I still love the 5 series but get the feeling that its electronics are not exactly state of the art such as Acura has done with the RL. I have found Lexus to also be a bit behind Acura on having useful and user friendly electronics, but how does the current 5 series compare on this issue?
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    I agree. I own an E39 and wouldn't touch an E60 if it were free (I absolutely HATE the bangalized styling, inside and outside); however, I think that some of the hype about BMW's reliability is overblown. My E39 has 131,000 miles on it, and other than routine maintenance, I have had a radiator and some power steering bits replaced. The clutch is starting to make itself known; however, this car burns no oil, gets 23-30 mpg, is quiet, comfortable and handles/brakes incredibly well. Sure, I am a car nut and have my eye on all the new LPS types; however, I have yet to drive anything that makes me believe that I will substantially "improve" my ride by trading my E39. Too bad that BMW didn't simply focus on improving this model which was virtually universally hailed as a beautiful car, however, from my experience and others that I have known, I would not instantly lump BMW in with the other German marques for reliability. I make no comments re I-drive (which I don't have), etc, but mechanically, these are GREAT cars.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    My first 325i was dark green. My last 325i and my current 545i are both silver. I happen to like the color silver, but more importantly, being notoriously lazy, find silver is the easiest color to keep looking clean the longest.
    I absolutely hate washing the car. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I have had BMW's since 1993 and have had no problems including a 1993 325i which I kept for 9 years. My stepson is currently driving it which makes it 12 trouble-free years.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    I won't dis another man's travel mode unless provoked, but I also can't get 'round to Bangle's designs. And my issues are by and large found in the details. Unfortunately for me, and our friend Chris, that's precisely where one finds God, according to Mies van der Rohe! He may have been talking architecture, but the application is universal, IMO.

    I think his shapes are quite appropriate to their individual missions, by and large. For all of the fuss, the 7, in profile, is a fairly seductive shape for a large sedan, and its authoritative stance is mission perfect, IMO. Similarly the Z4, without benefit of lighting capable of showing off the surface details and cutlines, is a beautifully proportioned roadster, and downright sexy, as befits the genre.

    It's his detailing that sinks the ship for me.

    OTOH, the 5 I do not understand in the least, but this may be because I find it's predecessor to be the ulimate expression of styling for a mid-size sedan. The replacement for me would have had a hard time being anything but a disappointment. I almost came home with a 540iT in 2003, despite the fact that it was substantially bigger than I wanted and near twice the price I had intended to spend; it was that beautiful. Had it been the right size, it would have been well worth the extra money to me. There's a red one ('03) that makes the opposite commute to mine, and it garbs my eye nearly every morning. Total knockout.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    People may criticize the E60 design. There are as many or more who love it. No use crying over the 2003 540i. It's part of a great past.
    I'm pretty sure if you got behind the wheel of my 545i and spent 10 minutes driving it, you would quickly forget your criticisms of its exterior styling.
    At least Chris Bangle didn't give me an Audi-like front grille. Yikes!
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    totally agree, Lexusguy. I cannot comprehend what Lexus/Toyota is doing with their engine selection for various cars. I like your suggestions. It makes NO sense to me to put the 3.5 in the Avalon and not the GS (in whatever HP format they choose). The 306hp 3.5 in the GS would have provided better gas mileage and comparable acceleration to the 4.3 V8 (which is becoming obsolete). For me personally, I won't buy a 3.0 GS when I can get a MUCH quicker 3.5 M35 with similar quality and much more interior room, and on and on. Not sure who is sitting in some of these Lexus planning meetings, but they are not giving customers all the things that matter (interior room being one thing). Maybe arrogance is an issue here. Yes, they sell all their cars, but right now, mainly on perceived quality and reliability. They are vulnerable on both points, and if they don't start to listen to their customers more, they may not always find themselves in the proverbial drivers seat.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,495
    My put is that the $0.70/gal price will last until the miniscule (relatively -- how many million barrels are really available?) quantity of spent cooking oil (valued as garbage) is used up, at which time the law of supply & demand will drive the price to near petroleum diesel.

    Now, if virgin biodiesel produced from rapeseed, peanuts, sunflower seeds or whatever can be had for $2.50 or so per gallon. . .

    I absolutely love the torque of European Tdi engines linked to a manual transmission, so I'm hoping for good things in this regard. Should be interesting.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Interesting sidenote to the bidiesel real-cost discussion is that fuels for use on-road are subject to taxation regardless of the source. I think that .70 figure could use a tad of upsizing!

    Hpowders: can't go there with you, but I'm very glad you like yours. If a 5er is going to end up in my driveway (not likely, as I said, it's too big for my tastes) before the next major re-skin, it'll be a used '03 Touring!
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    I think the issue with the E60 is purely one of looks/design. It IS a BMW and will handle/drive better than anything else on the road. I love BMWs. My 97 528 is the best car I have ever owned (to include Audis, Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, Buicks, Nissan 280Z, and Subarus). This car has been almost bullet-proof through 131K miles. The new E60 is another BMW. It rides, handles and performs as well as anything on the planet - no arguments anywhere. All the Lexus GS/IS and Infiniti M wannabes can get in line. They are good, but are not BMWs. Come back year after year with a winner and tell us about it. That said, your boy Bangle screwed the pooch on his E60 design. While many may buy it, there are an incredible number of people absolutely turned off by the "bolt on" styling. If he had simply enhanced the E39 style and improved performance, in my humble opinion, BMW sales would be at least 20% higher than they are today. Yep, styling is subjective, but we NEVER heard even a smidgen of the complaints about the then new E39 in 1996 that we have re the E60. BMW blew it on this one. Sure some love it, but MANY more won't buy it until the style changes.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I just saw quite an amazing feat on tonight's Top Gear episode. An Audi A8, with a 4.0L, twin turbo TDI V8 engine, made a round trip from London to Edinburough Scotland - thats 800 miles, on one tank of diesel, averaging 40mpg. Granted the A\C was off and he got back to the UK literally on fumes, but still, for a car the size and weight of the A8, thats astounding.
  • ezpilzeezpilze Member Posts: 29
    When I saw some of the spy shots for the current generation of bmw 5 series, I decided to stop waiting and quickly purchase the 02 530i. I'm actually quite suprised that so many people here find that the new 5 series is rather good looking, most of my friends find the new styling quite... um... inspiring. Nothing against the new 5 series, but I much prefer BMWs traditional look. The weird interior controls got on my nerves when I tested it in the slightly older 7 series and they still get on my nerves in the current 5 series, but I wouldn't have minded having the new engine upgrade in the 5 series. Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but I'll go with the 02s over the current 5 series any day.
  • turnbowmturnbowm Member Posts: 76
    IMO, the E39 styling was becoming somewhat old and tired-looking. Bangle did exactly what he was commissioned to do.... create a new 5-series design (E60) that was fresh and bold!

    I can honestly say that a new 530i would not be sitting in my garage if BMW had NOT changed the styling! The same goes for my friends and countless others that I have talked to.

    Martin
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Every single car I owned, even non-BMWs were black on black. Would not have a a sedan any other way.

    Very interesting. You never got tired of the extra care a black car needs to looks its best? Or did you just have it washed at the local soft-touch? ;)

    While I think Black is the ultimate color it takes too much work to keep it looking its best - for most folks. Though there is nothing that shines like a black car that has been taken care of properly.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Good call. The new 5 series is indeed fresh and bold and I swell with pride every time I go to my garage.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    I have just seen this in other forum. It is a picture of the new Lexus LS. The poster said that he had to look twice as he first thought the side view was an E60. I would like to see the car with my eyes.

    http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=14093
  • gohorns1gohorns1 Member Posts: 53
    I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinion about the new 5. It goes to show that personal opinion is what makes a horse race (and in this case we are talking a lot of horses). My own two cents.......at times I really like the styling, depending on the angle. Other times, I'm not yet sold, especially from the rear. However, if one majically showed up in my driveway, I'm sure it would grow on me in seconds!
    What I do like is that the styling is distinctive. Everyone seems to have an opinion. If you see a 5, likely you will take notice and either like it or not. It doesn't just blend in with the scenery. Not trying to pick on other's cars, but how often do you notice a 90's Acura or Infiniti (before the G and new M)? This feeds back to the prior thread regarding brand recognition, few have it like BMW. Now lets wait and see, is this version of the 5 going to turn out to be the red-headed (yes I am red headed) step child of the series or will the next model be an extension of this one?
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I find it hard to believe anyone really loves the E60 design, not even the owners who say they do. I think they confuse styling with the superior ride qualities and prestige of the badge.

    When you buy one it’s like taking a spouse. He/she can be ugly, cook turd casseroles, be as dumb as a twizzler and nasty as a junkyard dog. But your betrothed is yours and you defend your little darling until divorce do you… woops... I mean death do you part.

    On beauty in the eye of the beholder: I’d like to know how many people behold the beauty of a slug, sewer rat, wild boar and such. Bangle BMWs are inherently ugly just the same, and any aesthetic rationalizations are feeble. You may as well rationalize the aesthetics of a pig wallowing in mud.

    Now I can see myself getting an E60 and loving every minute driving it, especially since nothing else in this category beside the RL and perhaps the E is styled any better than a gnarly little troll, but if that day comes the toad will not be turning into a princess. It is what it is.

    BTW, I never really cared for the styling of the E, but it starts to look better next to all of this junk that is coming off the drawing boards… kind of like Mickey Gilley's girls getting prettier at closing time.

    People are really groping. There’s word that the M is handsome. Man that thing is plump. Since when is Rubenesque anatomy hot? And those Dumbo-eared tail lights look like a caricature of a Crown Victoria.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Believe it. I have liked the looks of all of the 5's over the last 15 years. Granted, the new ones are a distinct departure from prior models. But sales figures don't lie; obviously there are many who like it. I think it looks great (but then again, I think the "plump" M looks great, too). Like it or not, the new 5's are nothing if not distinctive in appearance (although the Pontiac-appearance claims have some merit...but I think this is only from directly head-on).

    Will the looks hold up for the long haul? I don't know. There was a time I thought the Bonneville SSE's from the early to mid 90's looked good. Now all I see is plastic cladding when I see the same cars (and I owned one of those Probe GT's with the bear-clawed cladding from the first model year). Styling tastes change.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    We see a lot of silver cars as well on the road today. The silver colors vary widely and some look good while others look kind of like Tin. Back to the point...while I really like the Celestial Silver of the 2005 RL, (it's the first silver car I ever owned), I am surprised at how quickly it shows dirt (dulls down) :( , especially after a rainy day expressway drive. It requires constant work to keep it looking at it's best. :shades:
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Doc...All this talk bout Plump, Probe, and Bear-claw cladding. are we talking about cars here? Chuckle, chuckle!! :blush:
  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    carnaught, you are obviously using an older iDrive system than the one in my 2006 530xi (I am first time BMW owner). To go from a map on the Nav screen to a radio station, you can do this within 2-3 clicks AT MOST as follows:

    - If all you want is to turn on the radio, press the knob on the dash (one click).
    - If you want to change the station that is currently playing, pull back the iDrive controller and it goes directly to the entertainment screen (first click), then scroll to change the station.
    - Better yet, use voice commands to switch to entertainment (one click on the steering wheel to turn on voice recognition).
    - Also available are the two programmable buttons on the steering wheel, which I set to bring up my phone address book and to turn the radio on and off.

    I am sure there are lots of variations to the above, but you get the point I hope. The new iDrive (like all new technologies) has become far more easier to use and is actually quite addictive. Believe me, I am NOT a gadget guy and I don't take too kindly to unnecessary technology, but slamming the new iDrive based on previous versions is just unfair. Just ask any software designer if they are proud of the older versions of their software, and they will surely be embarrassed!
  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    I was behind a new M35x on may way in to work today in my 530xi. Boy, was I glad that I did not pick the M35x (it was my second choice). Narrow, plump, and ungainly looking, compared to the athletic pouncing-look of the 5 :D
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Silver. My, oh my.

    It's extremely easy to live with (unless it gets hit). It's extremely easy to find; every mfr. has, like, five variants of silver/grey on their palette. It's extremely easy to fall asleep looking at it.

    I've been in a silver car now for three years, because that's what I got for taking delivery from stock. I will order next time, and no two ways, if all they can locate is silver, grey or black (my last round of choices).

    Don't get me wrong, I think it looks very nice, but there's just way too much silver out there, and it's boring no matter how you slice it. White, IMO, is fresher than silver now. The subjective side of the autombile is most enjoyable says I. ;)

    I lived with black once. :sick:

    Cambridge Green, Imola Yellow or Arctic White for the S4 Avant should I go that way; Arctic White, Brilliant Red or Ocean Blue for the A3 3.2Q if I jump that way. Should the new IS astound me at the test drive (I doubt it, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway), their palette is by far the most dull, so white it would be.

    Freddy: Infiniti has but one styling winner in my book and it only has two doors!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    There is a lot of resistence from an amazing number of people out there to advancing technology and even the simplest moves we take for granted on our computers are verboten to many :confuse: . iDrive fits that scenario. (Verboten is coincidently a german word.)
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    I have to agree with you my man...for my tastes I actually miss the White Diamond Pearl and consider it a great color for the TL but for some reason couldn't pull the trigger on it for the RL.
    (When polished up tho'.....THIS silver, blends fabulously with the chrome and can really be impressive on THIS car.)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .Changing the radio station on the new A6's is more complicated compared to the old way of doing things. But, with voice command, it is less complicated. I now have the ability to press the voice button on my steering wheel and say the word "Radio" followed by 95.5 mega hairrtz (like this: ninety five point five mega hairrtzz) and damn if the thing just doesn't go there -- no muss no fuss.

    You can say "next or previous" station and you can figure that out.

    Thus far you can switch to Sirius, but you must have preloaded your Sirius commands via voice, then you can say "Play the Vault."

    The memory is too small (25 names) but overall everything with voice is actually easier and safer than the old way -- and Audis system, at best is a B+ -- probably by 2007 or '08 the voice system will be much improved.

    The phone certainly is easy to dial, just say "dial number 555-1212" and poof, the phone dials for you.

    Overall, these systems seem like going from DOS to Windows 2.0 -- perhaps a dubious improvement, certainly they can be (at times) kinda cool and sometimes kinda geeky.

    The improvements that are probably "in the pipeline" are the ones to ooh and ahh over -- currently MMI (and I presume i-Drive) can sometimes frustrate.

    This is especially true when I drive my wife's 2005 BMW X3 and can simply punch the radio button #4 to listen to a Sirius sat radio preset channel. I think how much simpler this is than even my high cool factor voice activated Audi -- when it gets down to it, sometimes, simpler IS better.

    Oh well, the next generation can't happen without the first generation - - price we early adopters pay, eh?

    :shades:
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    Narrow, plump, and ungainly looking

    So which is it, narrow or plump? I love my M, but I will admit that the rear is the one area it doesn't show so well. Unfortunately for most (including 530 drivers, it would seem), it is the side that is seen most often... ;)
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    "carnaught, you are obviously using an older iDrive system than the one in my 2006 530xi (I am first time BMW owner). To go from a map on the Nav screen to a radio station, you can do this within 2-3 clicks AT MOST as follows: ......"

    Well, I didn't realize my one month old '06 3-series had "an older i-drive system" (LOL). What you may call clicks, I call different motions or movements (i.e, scrolling or pushing down). It unnecessarily takes four or more movements to go directly to a desired programed station (again without using the steering wheel controls).

    Reread my referenced post.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    So which is it, narrow or plump?

    Plump. He probably submitted the manuscript unedited.

    On the subject of colors. Not too long ago I saw an MB S in some kind of deep desaturated plum (not to be confused with plump). It was awesome. I thought, man, that person has good taste and guts to boot. I like MB color selections the best. They show the most thought.

    My fantasy is to order some kind of Porsche (Turbo S cab) with a unique pain-and-upholstery-to-sample color... probably a subtle desaturated metallic with a real medium rich brown English leather interior... and of course a tan rag top. Springing for the Porsche is one issue with the little woman, but the 12 grand for the custom colors would probably get me stabbed in my sleep.

    If I got a 5, it could be Silver with Terra interior. May have to see it first. BMW colors are kind of heavy handed, but I did like Orient Blue with Black. Saw an E39 M5 in that combo once. My knees got weak. They do have a pure bright silver though.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    FWIW, when I said "3 clicks" to do what you need to do, I meant from the main menu to anywhere.... not from deep within one menu to deep within another. Regardless, 4 clicks? Sorry, I was one off. ;)
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    Wow, you really do seem to think that just because it's YOUR opinion that the E60 is ugly, we should all share that opinion lest we be deemed by you to have bad taste. We've gone back and forth on this for what seems like forever, but I just can't believe that you honesly think that all of us that do like the Bangle designs are trying to justify settling for the looks simply for the drive. You mention the M, but can't see that it was obviously designed with the E60 in mind given the similarities between the two. The dash looks very similar and the the body does as well. Whether or not you can believe it, I happen to love the way the E60 looks and that did play a part in the purchase decision. Obviously others feel the same way. If you want to just generalize us all by saying that we fell pray to the sirens' song of the performance and the prestige offered by the badge that's your choice. When it comes to why I bought it, you're just flat out wrong. Sorry if you have difficulty accepting that.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Heh. I've seen what Porsche options can add when I test drove the lot's only Carrera Cabrio. The amount of money for options in the interior could buy a Civic.

    To add my two cents to the rest of the current discussion, personally I dont think the 5 looks either that bad or that good. I'm not really moved in either direction by it. Then again, I dont think any car in the class is particularly amazing looking, so thats no slam against the BMW. What I cant get past is the interior, particularly with "tripple black" 5s, (black paint, black leather, black wood) that I've seen on the local BMW lot. Way too depressing. I like the A6 and GS interior better, but I'm rather surprised in that the techno-lux interior of the RL has really grown on me. With the wood steering wheel and wood shift knob, it looks very classy, I'd say up there with traditional Audi.
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    As you said, the 20% higher sales figure that you speculated about is simply your opinion, based on nothing factual at all. Granted, there are many people turned off by the new designs (obviously), but I happen to agree with BMW's thinking that the E39 design was becoming dated and would have actually started declining in terms of sales (again, just my opinion based on nothing factual at all though BMW obviously shares that opinion). How could you say they "blew it" with the design if it's still outselling all of its competition except the E? For all the accolades the M seems to get it sure hasn't even approached E60 sales numbers eventhough it is cheaper. The E39 was great, but it was also boring in my opinion. Maybe you never heard complaints because it didn't either excite or bore most people. I would say that it appealed to more conservative buyers (not politically, but style-wise) without a doubt, but it didn't appeal to more progressive types. All I have to do is take my friends as a sample group to know this. The more conservative ones hate the new designs and the more progressive love it.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I personally like both the E39 and E60 styles. Both are very different, but I have taken a liking to both. When new styling appears for any car, there are always grumblings. A lot of those grumblings fade away as the styling tends to grow on people. Myself included.
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