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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    That was my original point, that one of diesel's biggest hurdles here is its image. An LPS car with diesel and excellent performance could definitely help put diesel in a more positive light. The performance part is definitely critical though. The engine Jag was considering for the XJ in the US definitely would've been a flop. 0-60 in around 8 seconds just does not cut it for a $70K car. A diesel alternative would have to be at least as fast as the standard 4.2 engine to be taken seriously.

    Speaking of FSI, I thought that only really worked with euro-spec gasoline? Isnt the US version basically standard direct injection?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    A 3 series with the small engine and an AT has something of a poseur car stigma to it, but the 330i, especially with the MT, gets plenty of respect.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Replying to myself? What has it come to? :P

    I want to make a correction. It's not terra cotta for the interior, it's Auburn.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Yea, but the colors are very similar -- we have the terracotta in an X3 with a jet black gloss exterior -- it would look great with white too (and this applies to the Auburn, which seems about the same if they're not right next to each other.)

    I am told it looks good with the silver and green, too.

    I have Audi's version, called amaretto and when parked next to my wife's BMW, the colors are darn close.

    I think the BMW's with black on black on black (like the majority of the ones in stock at our local BMW store) are so depressing and confining.

    I had a pearl white paint with black leather inerior car once -- when I replaced it with pearl white and ecru on a subsequent car, it seemed that the car became more inviting and actually seemed larger -- which was not the case.

    My wife loves the black exterior -- and when it's clean, I do too. But right on the showroom floor there was a black 5 with black wood with black seats, dash, headliner and idrive. They had to restrain me from doing away with myself it was such a downer.

    I know that black wood is real and all, but it just reminds me the feeling I get when I watch certain Ingmar Bergman films. :(
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The black stuff has shown up in some GS430s. It just looks fake.. wood doesnt look like that. I think if you're gonna do black, do a gloss black like in the Japanese version of the M45. Dont try to make it wood.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It just looks fake.. wood doesnt look like that. I think if you're gonna do black

    There is a certain aesthetic appeal about black wood. The Chinese have used black wood in their furnishing for several milleniums before we were born.

    Personally I like Aluminum with a preference for Alcan metal versus Alcoa metal ;)
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    i had a perfect mid size luxury sport day... sort of.
    yesterday i saw a bunch of cars parked next to each other. a M35, a G35, a RL, a 525 a GS 300, a Avalon, an a6 and a new rear [non-permissible content removed]'d 06 accord...

    interesting to see all these cars in a line. i was quite amazed at how boring the entire car industry has suddenly become and the bangelized 5 actually starting to look good because of how different it is from the others. I have never ever been a fan of lexus looks but suddenly the GS actually looked to have more elegant lines of the 3 [non-permissible content removed]. When I first saw the M and RL at the NY auto show i thought the M was the better looking of the two. Now I actually thought that the Avalon has more elegance in it's looks than the M. The M is quite similar to an Avalon, just more ugly chrome and a little narrower body. Suddenly i was turned off. As usual the A6 is in a class of it's own. But after recently giving away my A6 by paying somebody to take it off my hands, i'm not sure i really have an appetite for the A6, however the looks fascinate me. Sadly, i've to say that the boringest driving GS seems to be the best looking of them. Now i suddenly also know why some people have been cross shopping the avalon and M.

    cheers! happy halloween!
    ksso
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The Avalon and the M? Those are two very different cars, I'm rather surprised at that. Cross shopping the Avalon with the GS300 makes a lot more sense. If you dont need some of the Lexus technology, the Avalon has a much better back seat, and its faster.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Somebody sent me an e-mail regarding gas prices and it showed the photographs of the private residence of the former President of United Arab Emeritus and ruler of Abu Dhabi...the series of amazing photos also showed his front plaza which featured about 20 cars... mostly Roll Royces and BMW's but one of them was a Silver Audi A8 and it was NOT silver in color...it was made of SILVER!!! I don't think I have ever seen an automobile before that made my mouth just drop open and drool before. :P I have it on Power Point but perhaps one could find it on a web site somewhere. His name is Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan. Unbelievable!!
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    And the people of those countries hate us for our greed and capitalism!..... hmmm....
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wouldnt want it. How long will it actually look good? Silver does not like being exposed to oxygen, let alone rain, snow, road salt, etc, or in the desert, a sandstorm would make short work of the finish. I'll keep plain ole paint, thanks.

    A solid gold car sounds great, expect it would weigh as much as a tank, and drive like crap.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Count me as one who surely is not drooling.
    Washing the car is bad enough. Imagine having to use tarnish remover also due to the sulfur dioxide and hydrogen sulfide pollutants in the air.
    No thanks. Silver paint will do just fine.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That was posted around here someplace.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    One would think with all the electronic sophistication of my 2005 545, the clock would have been able to adjust for standard time but it didn't.
    Anyone out there with a recent Lexus, Acura, Mercedes Benz, Infiniti or Audi have a clock that did adjust.
    Just curious....
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    My 2005 A6 didn't change either. Pretty bad that a simple clock or computer can change but the sophisticated LPS's can't. It would take less than 200 kb of data to program this, and it can be placed somewhere in the MMI where it can be set as "follow daylight savings time" or "don't follow daylight savings time".

    I agree, pretty sad state of affairs.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    It adjusted in the RL just fine...can't those German engineers get their electronics up to date? (Just kidding...that's the least of your worries!) ;)
  • lexi300lexi300 Member Posts: 36
    2006 GS300 AWD:

    Did not adjust automatically, because nowhere does the (non-ML, non-nav) system know the date. However, it does have one button that just flicks between daylight and standard time, so it doesn't take any fiddling.
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    Somebody sent me an e-mail regarding gas prices and it showed the photographs of the private residence of the former President of United Arab Emeritus and ruler of Abu Dhabi...the series of amazing photos also showed his front plaza which featured about 20 cars... mostly Roll Royces and BMW's but one of them was a Silver Audi A8 and it was NOT silver in color...it was made of SILVER!!!

    Well, since this was an A8 and not an A6, I posted these pictures on the High End Luxury Marques forum. Here's the link:

    High End Luxury Marques #10742

    I got a kick of it myself. Enjoy! :shades: (of course, the shades are necessary to block out the bright desert sun)
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Makes sense that solid silver would be a porter's nightmare.... but I thought a billionaire could use it just for show...but as it turns out...it is aluminum!!! ... I did a little google search and found the pictures and some interesting description as well! http://www.mtm-online.de/en/highlights_audi_a8d3_poliert.html#

    mtm Audi A8 D3 Polished

    In Dubai the mtm Audi A8 polished was the eye-catcher. The car was analysed and in many studies the enamel varnish of the aluminium car body was removed. Furthermore the car was cleaned. After that, the car body was polished with fine abrasive paper as well as special polishes to high gloss. The blank dress must not have any defects, because of the fact that retouching was not possible. Finaly the car was protected with special clear varnish against enivornmental impacts.
    Because of the fact that it is impossible to polish plastic parts like front- and rearspoiler, mirror house, side sillboard or also fuel tank cap, they were enameled in a complex way to get a chrom effect. Finaly they were polished with clear varnish.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    Anyone out there with a recent Lexus, Acura, Mercedes Benz, Infiniti or Audi have a clock that did adjust.
    Just curious....

    My '00 CLK430 and '03 SL500 both automatically adjusted the time displayed on the navi screen. As a matter of fact, if you happened to be in the car at the appropriate time you'd see the time change at 2:00AM.

    Mercedes did not accomplish this through date analyzing software though. The time change took place because the time is derived from the satellites. Using this method, the time also automatically changes when you cross time zones.

    Neither my G35 Coupe or M45 Sport automatically change. Like the Lexus mentioned by an earlier poster, you have to turn off the Daylight Savings Time setting.

    With the possibility of DST dates being changed by Congress, reliance on software that incorporates date algorithms may not be a good thing.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Not only is the Avalon faster than most of the cars in this forum, it has the dual distinction of getting better gas mileage than most of them.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wouldnt say its faster than most of them. The GS300 and A6 3.2 yes... RL maybe.. but nobody else.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Oh good. A challenge.
    Meet me at the corner in 10 minutes.
    My 545 would love to race your wonderful Avalon in the 1/4 mile.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The Toyota Avalon is an amazing marketing package that will get the attention of many potential customers.

    I have already seen the ads ---"High HP combined with good gas mileage"0 to 60 in so and so many seconds!

    Ads emphasizing the above points will make the Avalon as hot as a seller as the new upcoming Sony PS3 systems! In fact the Avalon makes the Lexus ES330 redundant(unless having your car seviced at Lexus makes a big difference to you)!

    BUT one thing should remain clear and that is the Avalon is more of a "fast FWD Buick cruiser" than a LPS!
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    My M35 did NOT change automatically either. Neither did my cell phone by the way :confuse:
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    The Avalon and the M? Those are two very different cars, I'm rather surprised at that. Cross shopping the Avalon with the GS300 makes a lot more sense.

    :confuse: Uh, IF its ok to cross-shop the M and the GS (as per this thread topic) and its ok to cross-shop the GS and the Avalon (as per you) THEN its ok to cross-shop the M and the Avalon :shades:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I had to manually change the time on my PC computer that uses Windows XP!

    I must have some kind of virus :mad:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    But if you can compare a Avolon with a Infiniti M and at the same time compare a a Buick Lucerne with a Avalon then you can compare a Buick Lucerne with a Infiniti M! :D
  • worldskiworldski Member Posts: 14
    The Infiniti M which BTW is the best in it its class can be ranked as the most reliable based on current data obtained and statistical analysis of the engine which is at the heart of its performance. The engine in the M for the V6 is the ubiquitous 3.5 liter Nissan FM platform which has the most Wards 10 best V6 engine awards ever and the V8 engine is also not new having been used in the Q45 and previous M. I look at it this way. If you have a fundamental bias against the M it will be obvious from the nitpicking noticed in the forum arguments. What is clear now is that no car will lead this class of vehicles forever and clearly Infiniti has decided that the driver is the most inportant determinant of how well a vehicle drives and the car revolves around the driver achieving supremacy on the road. The bar has been raised and Infiniti has clearly decided to be a leader in this field. This lead will not be challenged on forums like this but on the road. Consumers have been voting with their checkbooks and will continue to do so.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The point I was making is that the Avalon and Infiniti M are for very different people. Nobody that likes the ride of an Avalon is going to enjoy an M45 Sport, and no M driver is going to like the cushy ride and numb steering of an Avalon. The GS is still sportier than the Avalon, but its a lot closer to it than the M, which is one of the most agressive sedans in the LPS class.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "If you have a fundamental bias against the M it will be obvious from the nitpicking noticed in the forum arguments..."

    As opposed to having a rather zealous bias for the M, I assume.

    "...the car revolves around the driver achieving supremacy on the road..."

    Supremacy? Did you really type that, or did a former Haig aide edit after you posted?
    :P

    The M is an improvement over its previous iteration (which was ugly, u-g-l-y, and it din't ha' no alibi), but the key point for the car, like the G, is merely punch for price. It's a value. A nice one at that. That doesn't afford it superlative status by any means, IMO.
  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    I have a 2006 530xi and the clock DID change automatically. There's a setting in iDrive that says something like "Auto adjust for daylight savings" and if that is checked then it works fine. Maybe you have an older version of iDrive (2005 vs 2006) or you just don't have it checked.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    The M has an On/Off toggle for DST in one of its menus (Navigation or Settings or something). As an early post stated, it may be better to have a manual adjust rather than an auto adjust given that the DST dates are going to change. Nobody has to fiddle with any software or firmware when the dates change.

    Finding the toggle took five minutes, however (flipping it only a sec or two).
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    its easier for a nav system to be able to do DST changes than non nav cars because nav cars are communicating with the outside world, the non nav cars have this stupid clock with a chip that was designed in 1982... and sells for about 10 cents.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    the reason i compared the avalon and M was because they were sitting right next to each other in the parking lot and it struck me that their basic shapes were so uncannily similar, except the M had lots of oddly placed glaring chrome and was narrower than the avalon. you couldn't pay me to buy most toyota's or lexuses only because i like firmer sportier drive and that puts me in a minority. if i loved even slightly softer drives and was a little blind to blandness, lexuses would be king of the world.

    anyway, there have been some who came to this forum in the distant past asking about cross shopping a base M against an avalon and i know a couple of my friends did that cross shopping too. one of them eventually went with a fully loaded 545 and the other bought a M45 but had the car sent to a speciality shop that reduced the ugly chrome excess on the car and i think the car looks phenomenal with the darkened accents.

    one of the reasons i'll not consider audi or VW brands anymore is because the company is partly owned by a state goverment in duetchland.... but yet, those cars look delicious.

    i think RL designers were blinded by the success of the TSX and TL and went down the wrong slippery slope.

    gotta go, will finish later...
    ksso
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Too bad the M doesn't get better mileage....like the BMW 5 series, for example.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    But if you can compare a Avolon with a Infiniti M and at the same time compare a a Buick Lucerne with a Avalon then you can compare a Buick Lucerne with a Infiniti M!

    And if you can compare the Lucerne with a Chrysler 300 which compares to the Avalon... :P
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    These LPS' are so sophisticated, one would expect the clocks would be programmed to change for standard and daylight savings times.
    I was kind of disappointed that my E60 wasn't.
    Good to see you got the M35! Enjoy it!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks. I sure will look!
    Just have to put on my decontamination suit as I attempt to go deep down into the bowels of the dreaded but incredibly easy to use iDrive!

    5 minutes later:
    Nope! I can't set my clock for daylight savings/standard time.
    My vehicle is a 2005 E60. Good to see the 2006's have the setting.
    Knew I should have waited for the 2006 models!
    Doh!! :sick:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    one of the reasons i'll not consider audi or VW brands anymore is because the company is partly owned by a state goverment in duetchland

    Interesting reason! I never heard that one before!

    And I am not going to dispute your reasoning because politics is beyond the domain of this forum!

    But indirectly the Lower Saxony Government share of VW ownership does have a negative impact on the company. Also the majority of the VW Board of Directors are either senior union members or government bureaucrats. Such a combination would be a disaster for any company!

    It is such a disaster that I believe it affects the product planning of Audi/VW. I am miffed that I cannot buy an Audi A3 with the features that I want:

    A manual Audi A3 2.0 sold only as a non-Quattro version! Why is it so difficult to have a Quattro version?

    A A3 3.2 Quattro sold without a manual tranny! Why is it so difficult to equip their more sporty 3.2 version with a manual tranny?

    Such limited feature-availability is unheard of in the non-Government shareholder-owned company called BMW. Although I am miffed that the there is not a 330xi version of the 3 series Touring!
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    "That doesn't afford it superlative status by any means, IMO."

    True, but winning or placing 2nd in almost every comparo in this class of cars does!

    Highest residual in class says alot as well.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "The Infiniti M which BTW is the best in its class..."

    That's funny. I thought the most recent issue of Motor Trend picked the BMW 545 non-sport over the M45 sport.
    Can you imagine what the BMW 545 sport would have done?
    Best in class? When I read that I began LMAO!
    Thanks very much for the laugh!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Hey hPowders Just another reminder to take your decontamination suit off before you relax in your den. DOH! Ah my man....there's nothing quite like being connected to a satellite and not having to worry about the trivial things of life. Ahem!

    and to KSSO...and I'm quoting you..."and i know a couple of my friends did that cross shopping too." I'm going to keep eye on you! Also t's OK if you can't appreciate the beauty of the RL....remember one of our infamous posters comments earlier... "Eye of the Beholder....Eye of the Beholder!!" ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Its not exactly unusual for a car company to be stingy about offering numerous variants of cars. BMW is one of the only companies left that really cares about MTs anymore. Why cant you get a G35x with a MT? Or a coupe with AWD, or an IS350 with a stick? I'm pretty sure the Japanese government doesnt have a controlling interest in either Nissan or Toyota. It costs money to offer a lot of different variants, and if they believe there wont be enough demand to make up for that, they wont offer it. I dont think its something necessarily sinister.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The point I was making is that the Avalon is faster than a lot of the LPS sedans, and gets better mileage. It may not handle better, or have a firmer ride if that's what you like, but according to CR, these are the performance stats.

    -------------------- 0-60-------------1/4 mile------------overall mileage
    Avalon --------------6.7------------- 15.3-----------------22/regular
    Acura RL-----------6.9------------- 15.4-----------------20/premium
    Audi A-6 -----------7.7--------------16.0-----------------21/premium
    Cadillac STS-------7.1 --------------15.5----------------19/regular
    Infiniti M35---------7.0--------------15.6---------------- 18/premium
    Lexus GS300------7.4--------------15.8--------------- 20/premium

    Which begs the question. If the Avalon is faster AND gets better mileage AND does it with regular, with gobs of standard features at a lower selling price, why can't the others??
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    Too bad the 5 series isn't about $10,000 cheaper and very reliable.... like the Infiniti M, for example.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Lexusguy,

    dont confuse me with facts!

    I like having something to blame for the lack of manual tranny options and I found "Big Government a suitable scapegoat.! Now I guess I will just have to find another scapegoat for the "decline of the third pedal"! :mad:
  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    5 series = 4,880
    E series = 4,670
    M = 2,231
  • m45sporteem45sportee Member Posts: 4
    In the Road and Track the Infiniti M45 was #1 . I am 6 foot 6 inches and test drove everything you can think of and it came down to the new BMW 550 and the Infiniti M45 Sport and i had to go with the sport - the drives were so comparable and yet the price tags were so different. Also, the seats in the Infinit were just a lot better for someone as tall as me. In the end I know edmunds had placed the Infiniti behind the Lexus and the Acura but i didnt even think it was a horse race - the Acura couldnt hold a candle to the performance of the infiniti and the lexus was so much more challenging to drive as a tall person - and the brakes were IMPOSSIBLE - in fact the sales rep said that it was such a common complaint on test drives. $52K with all that technology was $25K!!! below a similar BMW -this is one guy who found no comparison to the M45 !
  • m45sporteem45sportee Member Posts: 4
    That is absurd comparison to base anything on?
    So many BMW and Mercedes buyers are buying for the silly moniker that if you can derive anything from those numbers you should be buying a badge yourself!
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