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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The M35 is a screaming bargain compared to the 530, if you are buying.
    However, BMW makes leasing so attractive with their high residuals and competitive money factors, the 530 might be cheaper to lease.
    I really don't know, but if I was about to lease, I would definitely be checking each company's leasing numbers.

    I really hope Infiniti improves the steering (just a tad too effortful), gets rid of the racing car noise on accelerating and improves the awful mileage( for a V-6).
    It already has better brakes than the BMW.

    If they do these things to improve this vehicle, I could very well be driving the M35 in 2 years.

    The M35 V-6 is so powerful, it makes the M45 superfluous.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    You're welcome!
    ;)
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    Hey, I owned 2 928's...an 86 1/2 S model, and an '89 GT...one of 50 imported to the US with an 89 sticker of right around $90K (gulp!). The GT was the lightened and beefed up road race version kind of like the GT2 now...remember the 928 Cup races?

    Anyway, I have yet to own a 911...but I will someday when I can go back to the 2 seat car days. Funny thing is, the more the 911 changes...the more it reminds me of the 928 other than the placement of the engine.

    I got rid of the 928GT for a 330i Sport when I needed 2 more doors and when, at about 45K miles, the GT needed $8K in maintenance and repairs. Of course some of those miles was track time lol The 330i Sport handled better than the 928GT...at least on the road. At the track, the 928 probably still held an edge.

    Now I drive an Infiniti M45 Sport. It is similar to the 928GT in that it can feel a bit heavy until the speeds pick up to near-track speeds, at those speeds it comes alive.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'm just really pissed that no one laughed at the W12 joke,

    Next time you tell a joke try italicizing, bolding and underlining the punch line.

    Most forum members including myself did not yet read "Understanding Jokes for Dummies". ;)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Porsche finally woke up and went back to their roots.

    Like introducing the Volkswagen V6 Cayenne, oh sorry I meant Porshce Cayenne! :P
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    LOL!
  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    Porsche finally woke up and went back to their roots.

    Like introducing the Volkswagen V6 Cayenne, oh sorry I meant Porshce Cayenne!

    Porsche once again got caught up the latest wave - in the 1980s the yuppies....in the 2000s the SUVs. Funny how history repeats itself. Is a hybrid around the corner?
  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    Don't you get anything else from BMW for the $10K? Seems you would...

    I believe you also get Park Distance Control and Leather as standard (about $2150 worth of options) plus you get to choose an automatic (why?) or the sequential manual gearbox at no cost (another $1500). But then there's the added gas guzzler tax??

    Looks like upgrading from a 530 to 550 makes more sense than upgrading from a M35 to M45 given the power/price ratio. Of course in the leasing world BMW is subsidizing the 530 but not the 550 so your money will vary.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Is a hybrid around the corner?

    VW Porsche are jointly developing hybrids. I think we will be seeing hybrid Cayennes.

    Oh well at least Porsche is still making the 911! :D
  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    I consider myself a "practical" driving enthusiast. I don't need a race car but then again I enjoy spirited driving. In my younger days I owned a Porsche Turbo (incredibly fast) and two motorcycles that were even faster. Nowadays I feel that I could get into enough trouble with the V6s so for me I didn't really consider V8s (as do most buyers in this segment), a manual transmission or AWD (live in SoCal) in my decision at all. I understand to others these are deciding issues so you'll value cars differently than I do.

    My ownership experience from other cars I have owned: Lexus - very favorable, M-B - very unfavorable, BMW - slightly below average, Porsche - love/hate. Never owned a Datsun/Nissan/Infiniti although I enjoyed driving my friend's original 240Z.

    After researching and driving all the cars in this segment, I narrowed my choice down to two - the M35 and 530i. Then I drove them several more times back-to-back before making a decision. Here's how I decided.

    Performance - The M35 was definitely quicker than the old 530 225 hp engine. Have since driven the new 255 hp engine and I still give the nod to the M35. The 530 just felt underpowered - didn't even want to try out the 525.

    Fuel economy - EPA estimates favor the BMW and CR "real" world driving mileage also gives the edge to BMW albeit by a smaller amount. But the 530 requires premium fuel while the M35 gets by on regular. After doing the math - this is a push especially considering the price of the cars.

    Ride Quality - gave the edge here to the 530 although the gap was not that large. The M35 still doesn't feel as refined as the 530 but then again the BMW engineers have had more time to perfect it's ride.

    Steering/handling - slightly different feel between the two but I rated this a push although I could easily see how others would give the nod to the 530.

    Quietness - The 530 wins this one primarily because of the higher road noise caused by the choice of tires on the M35. I also gave the 530 the nod with slightly lower wind and engine noise.

    Interior controls and materials - didn't mind the idrive but I just thought the M35 interior felt and look better. Neither are Lexus-like but the BMW was just too cold for my likes. I like the M35's electronics better.

    Interior comfort - felt the M35 seating was more comfortable with more space for both the front and rear passengers. My teenage daughter vouches for the rear seat because I don't sit back there.

    Trunk space - a push.

    Exterior design - neither design was particularly striking. Infiniti was generic but the Bangle design still hasn't grown on me - rated this a push.

    Predicted reliability - over the past five years Infiniti has proven a more reliable brand than BMW.

    Value - The Infiniti was far more affordable and it came with more standard equipment. For buyers it was no contest. For renters - even though BMW subsidizes their leases the M35 still came across as the better value.

    Miscellaneous - Society places a value on the BMW badge. For better or worse I have to respect that and consider it in the decision making process. To be honest, if the two cars were exactly equal I would have used this as the tie breaker because BMW is the standard bearer and this is Infiniti's first year in the LPS segment. Edge to the 530.

    Final result - it was close but the M35 has been in my garage since April. But in the end I would have been pleased with any car in this group. None are perfect but they all are very good. They are far more similar than different. So it's like I married the Miss USA Winner (M35) instead of the First Runner-up (530). Life's a beach.....

    I'll report on the first 7 months of M35 ownership on Monday.
  • joeshanjoeshan Member Posts: 70
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    Apparently, effreytink must be chust zo! :P
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Finally!

    Than' ya. Than' ya vurra mush.
    ;)
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    A recurring theme when discussing luxury brands seems to be the relative importance of "the badge" when making a car buying decision.

    Those loyal to a brand rush to it's defense when a post suggests that sales may by influenced by the brand's name and perceived quality in the market place. I would offer that such a suggestion does not imply that the product is not good, but that the brand derives benefits from it's history and marketing efforts. That seems reasonable.

    The brand reputation also offers protection of market share even if the product is no longer up to the previous standards...for a while anyway.

    It appears that most of us have a preconceived notion of how the marketplace views the brands that are the subject of this thread. It's also apparent that we don't all agree on how the marketplace views these brands. I thought it might be interesting if each of us would test these notions out with a very simple survey. It might prove to be very enlightening to all of us.

    While not scientific, simply ask those to whom you talk, to name a luxury brand of automobile. Not the most reliable, the best value, best driving experience, etc. Simply ask them to name a brand. If you wish, ask them for a second and third brand too. It might be interesting to track the numbers by those who claim to be car enthusiasts and those who do not.

    If you wanted to carry it a step further, go back and ask if the person would consider buying a car from the company they named, price no object.

    If the host would allow, I would enjoy seeing the results of a current survey such as this posted here.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    From their position, how would you expect them to act? They are they entrenched player, and Infiniti is the uppity new guy. More importantly, the M is the first car to go eye-to-eye with the BMW and not blink.

    Uh, I expect ANY salesman to sell me his car. :confuse: Its kind of pathetic to expect me to buy his car simply BECAUSE the competition sucks. :blush: I want to hear why his car is better than the others NOT why the others are worse than his car. :surprise: As soon as any sales rep starts to trash the competition I am out of there.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    When I was looking at the M45, the dealer asked me what other car((s) I was interested in. When I told him the 5 series-he said nothing, but had a disappointed expression on his face. Like "lost another loan to Ditech!"
    He did not trash BMW.
    Sounds like the dealer for you. ;)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    Thanks for a helpful post, and do keep us informed as your car gathers miles.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • lexi300lexi300 Member Posts: 36
    My 2006 Lexus GS300 AWD has about 8,300 miles on it at this point, since purchase in June. One issue: The glove compartment door sticks. Dealer will have no trouble fixing it, but I've had no time to get to the dealer. They didn't have the part in stock at my 5,000-mile check-up.

    Mileage has been dreamy: often 27-29 mpg. Yes, it's mostly highway, but nevertheless I am very impressed.

    I like the car even more every time I drive it. Smooth, quiet, tight, confident. It's my first LPS, but I doubt it will be my last. There aren't a lot of Lexus enthusiasts who are vocal on this board; it seems to have a real Audi/BMW slant. However, when I compare the GS with its rivals, in my mind the GS has so many elegant appointments and features that just work well together and are understated but pleasing.

    I wish the owner manual was written better, but everything has been so intuitive that I have only referred to it once or twice for technical issues (like tire inflation guidelines).
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Sorry, I know I'm a little late, but I really have to argue with the idea that because the G35 has generally been a success (Infiniti's first, only took them 14 years), they are as much of an established brand as BMW. To the average consumer, Infiniti did not exist before 2003. I bet that a majority of consumers still have no idea who they are. There's also no way they have close to the number of dealers that BMW does. I have to travel 1.5hrs to get to the nearest Infiniti dealer. There's a BMW store within 20 minutes, and I can get to Lexus, Jag, and M-B in 40. For the LPS class, they didnt exist before a few months ago. How long has the 5 series been around? Thats hardly what I'd call comparable. Even though the RL wasnt really a LPS in its previous generation, it still has been around since the Legend days, and people did buy them. Nobody bought the failed first gen M45. For Infiniti to come from nowhere and beat BMW in sales, the 5 series would have to have a lot more problems than controversial styling and iDrive. The wheels would have to fall off, and the engines would have to explode.

    The M needs several generations on the market, and Infiniti needs a heck of a lot more prestige (a Q45 that isnt a flop would help matters a lot) before they can be considered on equal footing with BMW. Right now they are basically fighting with both hands tied behind their back.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Its not just the GS, there's basically nothing about the STS, RL, S-type, or E either. The Audi, BMW, and Infiniti have the most "P" of the LPS class, so therefore they are the most interesting to talk about.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Even that great Lexus apologist, Consumer Reports, recently reported on the disappointing handling of the 2006 GS.
    Just before the GS was released, the word of mouth coming out of Lexus was that the new GS was being aimed squarely at the 5 series.
    One such executive foolishly proclaimed it as a "5 killer."

    But if you lexi300 are happy with it, that's really all that matters.

    Everyone here can find negative reviews about their own particular favorite of LPS.

    Enjoy yours! :)
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    I just saw the new S Class on the road for the first time yesterday, and I gotta say that I find it to be really ugly. Obviously just my opinion, but the front end looks like a Caddie to me, and the rear looks like, umm, I don't even have a name for it. Doesn't even look remotely like a MB to me. But I guess people said that about the Bangle designs too. IMHO the 7 is much better looking.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    As much as we all like to pick on CR, they really do care about more than just reliability. Many of the cars they rank highest in terms of safety, performance and handling are not "recommended" cars.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I find the rears of the new ML and R classes to be rather ugly as well. I think the R is just an ugly car as a whole. The ML at least isnt too bad from the front.. better than the old one anyway. I really didnt like the looks of the original 745i, but the 750i isnt too bad looking. Its at least interesting, which is not something I'd say about the A8. The A8 is not necessarily unattractive, its just the usual "Audi, size L".
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    The Audi A8...it's like a boat :shades: "Audi, size XXL"
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Well, I was counting just A4, A6, and A8 as Audi size S, M, and L. Audi has smaller cars than the A4, but they dont have that single basic shape that the 4, 6, and 8 have.
  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    Everyone here can find negative reviews about their own particular favorite of LPS.

    What might interest people here are any negative comments or suggested improvements you have about BMW and not it's competitors. Concentrate on your area of expertise, i.e. your BMW.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I don't believe I have to ask you what folks here might be interested in.

    I've studied and driven the M35, M45, GS300 and GS430 in addition to BMW.
    So I plan on many more posts about the M and GS since I know quite a lot about them.
    The fact that the E60 is the ultimate driving machine in its class is not my fault, pal!
    Please don't take your petty frustrations out on me.
    Drive and buy an E60 for yourself. Should be the cure

    I am so thankful this holiday week for the exquisite E60 545 that Chris Bangle designed for me.

    PS: Can you dispute anything in my post about the GS?
  • jo2jo2 Member Posts: 41
    Dear Drtavel,

    After reading your review of the two cars - I am eager to hear what you have to report after having the car for a while now. I read your post, and from the sound of your analysis I am convinced that we think very similar.

    Do you ever get tired of the loud engine? Do you ever pull up next to a 530i and wish you had chosen the BMW? I know this sounds about as egotistical as it can be but "how are you treated when you valet your car at nice restaurant compared to BMW?"

    I am making a decision this week and after driving both only once, I am struggling still. I am going to drive both one more time, but time is running out since I have to turn over my lease in 2 weeks.

    Jo2
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "Do you ever pull up to a 530i and wish you had chosen the BMW?"
    Goes directly to the heart of the matter.
    An excellent question! :)

    By the way, I am treated regally when I pull up to the Palm steakhouse in my 545.
    Need I say more? ;)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    By the way, I am treated regally when I pull up to the Palm steakhouse in my 545.

    Pardon my ignorance, but is Palm Steakhouse the Candian version of Ponderosa?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I think you are misreading drtravel's intent. He's just echoing some things said here earlier about how the posts that genuinely critique - not just praise - the poster's own vehicle are often the most valuable and most informed.

    I don't think he meant any offense.
  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    Picked up my M35 on April 15 - got one of the first ones off the boat. Have driven it for 9K miles and have averaged about 19 MPG city/highway driving although sometimes SoCal Freeways feel like city driving.

    Within the first week of ownership I noticed a squeaking sound from the head liner and a pinging sound from the exhaust system during cool down. Fortunately I was accustomed to doing "battle" with the service guys from my BMW and M-B ownership days so I readily went down to my dealership. They called in the Infiniti Engineers who were eager to hear about any problems with the car. They came up with a fix and two TSBs. They said it was a flaw which only affected a small number of vehicles (lucky me) but all Ms produced after the TSB were tweaked, so none had these problems anymore. Not sure if I should classify this incident as a reliability problem or a design bug. All brand new designs have some issues. I was treated quite well by all parties involved including follow ups by many. Have had no other problems with the car.

    On my JD Power survey I gave the car an "average" rating for Road Noise. I attribute this to the notoriously noisy Goodyears. Someone at Infiniti Corporate read my survey and gave me call to set up a meeting with several engineers to discuss this. I took them for a test drive and then they added some "strategically placed" insulation to see if that helped. Not really - changing the tires is what I suggested. I did drop big hints but they didn't offer any new tires. They did however give me a $250 gift card for my time. My dealer also comped my 7.5K service so I guess I'm getting free maintenance? I'm very impressed with the company's dedication to this car - they actually care about what the customer wants. I have a feeling that future generations will be much improved.

    After the fix for the initial problems the car has been solid. There are a few minor design annoyances (i.e. no automatic self-locking doors, I wish I could permanently turn off the self-dimming rear view mirror) but these are trivial and no more than found on any other car. The road noise issue is tire related. Wind and engine noise are like my old BMW and M-B although my Lexus was extremely quiet. It's only noticeable on concrete road with grooves. I've grown accustomed to it plus I enjoy listening to my high quality stereo loud!

    So how does my first 7 months of ownership compare to that of my other LPS? My Lexus had no problems and although I have grown to appreciate the Ms interior even more I still thought the Lexus interior was the finest. Outstanding customer service. My BMW had more problems and for my actual driving I still rate both cars equal in their road manners. Average customer service. My M-B had alot more problems (it was also the first year of a new design) although their customer service was excellent. Now remember these are my actual experiences....yours will probably vary.

    Whenever I pull up next to a 5-series I never think that I should have chosen the BMW. Of course I have owned one before and I can see how for someone who has never owned a BMW before they might have a different take on the situation - don't get me started on that badge thing. What a valet thinks about my car is irrelevant to me. I expect to get treated well regardless of what type of car I drive.

    The owner of my dealership says Infiniti is ecstatic about their sales thus far. Corporate is expecting the car to increase in sales every year - just like the G did for it's first three years. How many luxury buyers even think about Infiniti?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    jo2 specifically referred to the M's loud engine, not tire noise.
    I drove the M35 and M45 twice each and each time upon acceleration, the engine made a very loud noise. Like a race car.
    I, for one, would not be able to get used to that and I passed on the car(s).
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Whoever said VW luxury died with the Phaeton.

    Coming soon to a dealership near you, a VW coupe that will compete with the Benz CLS500!

    I am not kidding.

    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103630
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Apparently VW didn't learn their lesson....
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I dont think VW will any lessons until they get rid of source of all their problems:

    VW Chairman Piech

    I am willing to wager that this coupe endeavor is one of his new self-destructive pet projects.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Pardon my bad anglish on the last post.

    Key complaint about the current VW Passat is that it is a bit pricey to the competition.

    So what does VW do? They will introduce a far more expensive Passat as a coupe version. :confuse:
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    Hpowers,

    You are not the target market for the M. Generation X does not mind, even prefers, to hear the engine every now and again. It is a hallmark of Nissan's sport cars, NISMO, and now Infiniti to design a little bark in the exhaust note of their performance cars.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    Believe it or don't, a Bangle 5 series pulled into the parking lot at Target yesterday, a father and son got out and oogled my M45 Sport, then drove away. My neighbor with his '04 530i constantly bemoans his 225 HP when we compare car notes and almost acts embarrased when we pull out of the neighborhood together.

    I guess the question should be asked both ways....
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well BMW listened and now the 2006 530i is a much more competitive vehicle.

    I also look when I see an M. Problem is I don't see too many.
    My E60 is also a rarity. Nobody around here seems to drive one.

    You are right. I am not the target person the Infiniti M is designed for.
    But I really do love powerful cars.
    When I enter the highway in my 545 and step on the gas to merge, the effect is quite intoxicating...
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    And how does your BMW service department treat you when you show up munching on a Palm steak? Gimme a break! Give us all a break. I like my E39 530 a lot, but for God's sake it's just a car.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .the M's several times.

    At the time, April 2005, ordering an M35x with Journey and Technology seemed the ultimate smart thing to do.

    Drove like a German car, close to the BMW, perhaps slightly better than the A6, had the AWD, great electronics, and great deal.

    Seemed plenty powerful, especially compared to the then anemic 530i.

    Seemed like a better deal than the Audi -- AT THE TIME.

    I ended up because of the deal alone with the Audi, which was my first choice, but not for $200 per month more than the Infiniti.

    I have had, for those newcomers, over 2 dozen Audis -- but I felt they had priced themselves out of the market.

    Perhaps the deal I got was unique, if so, this may be my last Audi.

    But it will not be because of the car -- it has been great in every way.

    At 9,000 miles, I love driving it.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    Pardon my ignorance, but is Palm Steakhouse the Candian version of Ponderosa?

    LOL The restaurant wasn't very popular but they released sales figures indicating that they sold more porterhouses than rival steak houses. Now the restaurant is flooded with people seeking the steak that comes with a cute little badge that reads "Ultimate Feeding Routine". You need only pay 20% more to enjoy too.

    Jo2, the M does emit a rumble under acceleration. I actually enjoy the note and even if I didn't I don't find it noisy enough to be bothersome. It is a performance sedan. As with a previous post, I generally have the music loud enough that I don't hear it anyway.

    Will you feel envious of a BMW when it pulls up next to you? Only you can answer that question. If what others think of your car is that important you may need the little propeller. I'm with drtravel in that it doesn't mean much to me. The only compliment that I'll pay to BMW today is that I only needed to twist their arm, not break it, to buy back my defective 7er.

    Have fun with your choice.
  • bw45sportbw45sport Member Posts: 151
    I think it's great that Audi stepped up to the plate and showed that they viewed you as a valuable customer Mark. It's unfortunate that they waited so long to do so but at least they did it. My 20+ year loyalty to M-B,unfortunately, was not appreciated as was yours. Perhaps they've bought back enough cars that they've drawn a line.

    I've been meaning to ask you a question about a problem that you had mentioned with your A6. Now that the higher- end cars are seemingly headed in a push-button start direction, were you dead in the water when that part failed? I've really grown to love the feature as I've had "Keyless Go" on the M-B and now the similar feature on the M. I was just curious if there is a work around should that part fail.

    Happy A6 motoring!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Never cared much for either of my 2 BMW service departments I've had to deal with.
    Never met a BMW service employee who wasn't cold and impersonal.

    I never show up at the service dept. munching anything. I always save room for the Famous Amos chocolate chip cookies and the best hot chocolate I have ever tasted.
    Both courtesy of the service dept.
    I wouldn't be surprised If some folks just go in there off the street and munch for free.
    Who really checks?

    Believe me, I know it's just a car. Most of the time I am deliberately being provocative to stir up the pot and most of the time I succeed.

    You'll have to excuse me but I must place a call to order a 32 oz. t-bone before the Palm closes.
    For me, they will deliver! I am after all a BMW lessee.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I've read in magazines that have years and years of experience with the VQ that it has gotten somewhat gruff and coarse in its old age from so many displacement increases. While the sheer muscle of the engine is undeniable, it pales in terms of refinement to pretty much every other engine in the class, except for the S-type which is stuck with the poor old Taurus engine. If the rumored 3.7L for the next G is a new from the ground up engine, there's a good chance the M37 will be much more refined.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    I wish I could permanently turn off the self-dimming rear view mirror

    Just out of curiousity, why do you dislike this feature? I've really liked this feature on both my RLs.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A journalist working on a personal finance story about auto insurance is specifically hoping to find some people who pay enormous amounts in auto insurance. (For example, perhaps some young males who own pricey performance cars.)

    If you're someone who's paying several thousand dollars annually in auto insurance, or has a son or daughter who is, please respond to pr@edmunds.com before the end of the day Weds., Nov. 23, with your daytime contact number.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • drtraveldrtravel Member Posts: 395
    I wish I could permanently turn off the self-dimming rear view mirror

    Just out of curiousity, why do you dislike this feature? I've really liked this feature on both my RLs.

    I have tinted windows. At night time when you combine that with a self-dimming rear mirror - it's pretty dark back there. I turn it off and can see just fine. It's just when I turn the car off and start it again, the mirror is back at it's self-dimming mode. I don't dislike the feature - just let me control it some more.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    I have tinted windows. At night time when you combine that with a self-dimming rear mirror - it's pretty dark back there. I turn it off and can see just fine. It's just when I turn the car off and start it again, the mirror is back at it's self-dimming mode. I don't dislike the feature - just let me control it some more.

    That makes sense - I didn't think of that since I don't have tinted windows. Actually, I'm surprised you can't turn it off. In my RL, and other cars I've driven with this feature, there's a button on the mirror that turns it off. Since it's electrically activated, I would guess you could disable it even if there's not button to turn it off.
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