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au contraire..... Mercedes reliability issues are well documented yet they sell extremely well. Their E-series is the top selling LPS year-to-date. I have become quite friendly with my M-B service department (that's what happens when you buy one) and he told me that the service department's best customer is MBUSA - because of all the warranty work they perform. I have even joked with him that M-B has to charge an extra $10K per car just to cover warranty repairs.
IMHO Mercedes Benz is synonymous with Luxury Sedan or something that is the best. Much like the brand Kleenex has come to refer to all tissues. A local dealer advertises that they are the Mercedes Benz of Mercedes Benz dealers meaning that they are the best M-B dealer - and everyone understands their message. Why does M-B sell so well - because they are Mercedes. Their badge is gold although it may have lost a little luster of late.
Back in my motorcycle days, many bought high performance bikes because some magazine said it was the "best handling" or had the "best performance". Many buyers of these bikes did not have the slightest skills necessary to push these bikes anywhere near their limits and easily got in over their heads when they tried. They should have bought cruisers assuming they didn't kill themselves first. But they wanted to look like performance studs instead - is that a "poser" quality?
I'm not claiming any of the preceding as facts....just one man's opinion.
Your postings help keep things on an even keel!
Happy Thanksgiving!
(Going home for the Holidays?)
If you are getting a used car, most dealers have certified used available. If not, find a mechanic to check it out when you get it narrowed down. Finally, if you put down $10K, if you're north of insolvent, a dealer will get you financed.
Your insight on SUVs OTOH...
In fact, I would venture to say the differences [between this group's members] from many perspectives are subtle.
Now styling, colors, ergonomics (to a point) some switchgear and appointments do rise to an area that cannot be said to be "subtle."
But the differences noted that are not subtle are entirely subjective with the possible exception of some ergonomic choices made.
Here in Cincinnati the "most common" car is probably the BMW, the least common the Infiniti.
If all you wanted was to drive a car that few people have you certainly could choose almost any but the Mercedes and the BMW.
The M is great -- it is not superior. In many ways the M is an also ran -- in a crowd of mostly superior cars.
Heck, if someone would make the $ attractive enough, the STS AWD would certainly be a great car too.
Come to think of it, perhaps the Acura RL is the least seen car around these parts.
The RL, too, is a great car -- but, again, running with this crowd, finding a clearly superior car is, shall we say, "challenging!"
If you are new to this forum be aware we all have strong opinions and we aren't afraid to share them.
Mostly, however, you will find if YOU extensively test cars in this class, comparably equipped (not perhaps simply comparably priced) -- AND you test the cars over the same test route -- you will find the attributes that appeal to you are probably more subjective than most of us care to admit.
Speaking as the converted -- a man who could never even imagine any car but an Audi was worth a tinker's cuss, i.e., then ordered an M35x, only to have Audi make me a deal $ I could not refuse, etc. -- I cannot imagine feeling I had gotten a short shrift with most of these cars from a "content" standpoint.
Styling preferences abound -- as do some measurable performance differences (but check out the stats, they are all pretty close to one another), overall though these cars seem to be acquired, not bought or leased, based mostly on subjective (emotional/passionate) criteria.
This class of cars is where the fuss is about, perhaps THAT we might mostly agree upon.
Probably not though.
Drive it like you live. :shades:
The free maintenance has nothing to do with failed components. Maintenance includes things such as filter change---can be viewed as a lump sum discount at purchase. It's the warranty that is related to the "conspiracy." However, BMW's warranty, at 4 years, is the same as everyone else.
If you don't maintain your car well, then you'll certainly end up with more problems down the line....
There are a lot of people out there that push out that oil change for another few hundred or thousand miles or take the car to Jiffy Lube for a service interval when they find the time or money....
If you have free maintenance, then you can bet BMW owners will get their service done. No reason to neglect it or put it off.
Your postings help keep things on an even keel! Happy Thanksgiving! (Going home for the Holidays?)
Thanks, always good to see your postings too. Happy Thanksgiving. Not going home until Christmas.
Hope you're enjoying your RL as much as I am!
Oil changes are at around 12,000 miles.
To underscore the theme, my 6 month old A6 has also been a joy and other than the pushbutton starter replacements, has been a dream to drive and own.
Unlike nebraskabuy however, I could be persuaded to trade my A6 for perhaps the M35X or a 530xi (stick only), an STS AWD and of course the RL.
I would have to revisit the Mercedes E 4Matic to determine if it would be placed on my list -- but I suspect it would merit another look see, too.
Got my winter floor mats, today and a new set of wiper blades (no charge) -- while I was at the dealer they put my new plates on Audi32 -- but I saw a 4.2 Sline while I was there and the wheels alone make the car look soooo good.
What a great time to own or be in the market for an LPS car!
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8d8bf
pop on over and comment!
BMW 5-Series
Chevrolet Corvette
Honda Accord Hybrid
Infiniti G35 Coupe
Infiniti M45
Lexus GX 470
MINI Cooper
Porsche Cayenne
Toyota Prius
Volvo XC90
Infiniti's the only brand with 2. There's not a single Lexus car or Mercedes vehicle. There are two hybrids. There are 3 SUV's. The only Porsche is Cayenne!!! Corvette is the lone American and sports car.
Chevrolet Corvette
Honda Accord Hybrid
Infiniti G35 Coupe
Infiniti M45
Lexus GX 470
MINI Cooper
Porsche Cayenne
Toyota Prius
Volvo XC90
There's not a single Lexus car or Mercedes vehicle.
Hmmm, so the GX470 doesn't count.
Hmmm, so the GX470 doesn't count.
The GX470 is one of the three SUVs to which reference was made.
In the real world, regardless of what the many dissenting posters feel, the E60 BMW reigns supreme. No surprise there.
I was surprised that the LS430 didn't make the list.
Err, not exactly. The KBB report gave the best resale value award in the "Luxury" category to the Infiniti M45, not the 5 series.
2006 BEST RESALE VALUE: CATEGORY
SEDAN: Honda Accord Hybrid
LUXURY: Infiniti M45
COUPE: Infiniti G35 Coupe
PICKUP: Toyota Tacoma PreRunner
CONVERTIBLE: Chevrolet Corvette
SPORT UTILITY: Porsche Cayenne
WAGON: Subaru Outback
VAN / MINIVAN: Honda Odyssey
HATCHBACK: MINI Cooper / Toyota Prius (Tie)
http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2005/Oct-2005/O-2005-2/O-12-05-p7.htm
I let the late, great Chester A Riley speak for us humbled E60 owners as he said it best: "What a revoltin' development this is!"
Senator Joe McCarthy (Regretfully from my home state) just rolled over in his grave when you mentioned Communist. Glad none of his surviving stock took up that cause! We might all be driving Detroit sleds.
Please show more appreciation to the deceased Senator! It is because of him that we are not driving Ladas and Trabants.
They kept rejecting "Good bye!"
Did the guy playing Murrow always have a cigarette in his hand?
Murrow was an incessant chain-smoker.
As the sales of the E60 indicate, looks like a lot of folks have no problem being seen in the E60, a design that has taken so much battering in the press and on the LPS and High End Luxury Marques boards. Their perception is totally divorced from reality.
If the car was actually perceived as repulsive by the public, sales should be in a dramatic longterm down trend since 2004 and that is surely not the case.
BMW sold 5,185 5-ers in November. They sold 4,880 in October so sales didn't slow for them. MB sold 3,884 E's in November which represents a 21% decrease from October. Not sure what that's about. Audi sold 1,625 A6's. Acura sold 1,298 RL's.
http://www.theautochannel.com/
If you click on any of the manufacturers' links along the right side of the page you'll get news articles, including press releases with sales figures.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The numbers for the 530 and 545/550 aren't far off from Lexus: GS300 = 2223 and GS 430 = 396. Clearly folks are going for the 6cy much more than the 8. So, if we are talking about the performance cars, which in my book are the 8's, these numbers these numbers aren't far off. Unfortunately, INfiniti did not break down the M45 and M35 (I doubt the #1982 listed were all M45's as is listed on the web site.)
For 6 cylinder buyers the 525/530 is clearly the choice (IMHO.... these are the likely badge buyers) although I would hesitate to call these buyers "performance orientated" as 525 sales almost match 530 sales. Not sure a majority of these buyers concern themselves with the P in LPS..... probably more concerned with Prestige or Status. Hmm.... does LPS really stand for "L"ooking for "P"restige and "S"tatus?
Anyhow... Seems like most forum members are concerned with performance so I'm not sure that we represent a majority of the actual buyers of these cars.
The 525 buyers are not seeking P but H. H for handling dynamics which BMWs tend to excel in even with low hp.
You can find badge seekers among all luxury marques including Infiniti.
What do they share?
Why Chris Bangle's courageous new design, of course.
If the car had been perceived by potential LPS buyers as ugly and repulsive, why is the E60 such a great success?
The automotive print media have been relentlessly hammering away at how ugly the 5 is. How complicated the iDrive is, they whine.
CR couldn't knock it down with its mumbo jumbo black circle of unreliability; the methodology behind it an MIT rocket scientist couldn't comprehend.
The fact is that automotive journalist aren't market experts and they afterall is said and done are just giving their opinion. I think people like a fresh and bold change now and then. BMW is on fire all over the world right now and they've got a gang of models coming so I don't see them cooling off any time soon.
I don't true BMW folks ever cared about what CR says, CR is for the Lexus/Acura folks.
M
What does everyone think?
Whether you love it, hate it or are somewhere in between, one must credit the company for boldly going where no man has gone before.
People find the new design aggressive and exciting, much to the chagrin of the automotive print media.
I don't believe I have ever read anything on that.