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Best Regards,
Shipo
Maybe I've been out of the market for awhile, but I have to ask, are you NUTS??? :surprise: $54,000 for a 525i (or A6 for that matter)? Tell me that's in Canadian dollars, Rubbles or something other than US greenbacks. Please.
I briefly considered an M5 before electing to keep our TL 6-speed and get a fun car (911S Cab). I also priced out a 550i 6-speed. With sport package, premium sound, navigation, cold weather package and another goodie or two, the 550i 6-speed came in at an MSRP of $67k +/-, an invoice price of $61k +/- and a negotiated European delivery price of $58,750.
If you can afford $54,000 for a 525i, certainly you can scrape together another $5,000, cash in some frequent flyer miles, and get a top of the line 550i. And have a car that performs nearly as well as the previous generation M5, with better gas mileage to boot.
I am a big fan of BMW but there is no way I could justify $54k for a 530i, let alone a 525i.
I am a big fan of BMW but there is no way I could justify $54k for a 530i, let alone a 525i.
Everyone has their opinions, obviously.... but for some people, it just isn't about the engine. Some people would rather have the neat-o options and features. Some would rather have the "L" than the "P" in their LPS. It's not up to us to tell someone what is most important to them....
The BMW would be my choice were it a stick and the 525xi.
With the stipulation that it has to be an auto. An Sline A6 vs an RWD auto 525 is not a competion were it my bucks.
Go for the stick and the x drive or don't go BMW -- if all you want is prestige, well I guess the BMW does win on that count.
But man with that much MSRP to play with, you will regret no AWD and IMHO no stick.
Live a little -- the stick is the real prestige.
But, Sline with the 255hp and 243 pd ft of torque will be the performer.
Oh come on, it's a 92, not a 62. The car has ABS and a driver's side airbag. Since my daughter will not be driving any friends, at least not initially, I am not concerned about passenger side airbags.
Anyway, safety is a relative thing. It might not have the most recent safety innovations, but that doesn't make it unsafe. For that matter, my 02 doesn't have all the latest safety innovations, either. Should I ditch it too?
I agree. And so long as gregisgod13 doesn't tire of the car in less than 8-10+ years, he will be fine financially. But based upon my observations, a 525i loaded up with every extra cost option and do-dad in the book will sell or trade in 3-4-5 years for a huge discount relative to that original $54k MSRP. There just isn't that much demand for a (relatively speaking) excessively optioned entry level 525i that approaches or exceeds a well optioned 550i or 530i in price.
I'm sure someone could figure out a way of turning a $20k Accord into a $45k RL through options and aftermarket add-ons, but I'd probably be questioning the financial purdence of that, as well.
If you want the popular car based on numbers you must go BMW, if you want the car that is slightly more "rare" in the US the Audi wins.
I wouldn't get a car in the LPS group based on either popularity or unpopularity -- the cars are all pretty good. Even the least popular is a good car and the middle selling cars are too.
For some folks, the Germans which hold the top two sales spots are not their cup of tea for a variety of reasons.
I am concerned, but I am the lunatic fringe, that you think the stick is too much to deal with. In what way?
Hopefully you would NEVER use a NON hand and eyes free phone while driving then, since THAT would be the real definition of too much to deal with.
Manual transmission = more control, more performance and two components of safety (not all the components, but two of them) ARE control+ performance. Plus the stick is, shall we say more satisfying and fun to boot.
Might I add, that the stick will cut the cost of the BMW 525xi by some $1200.
The Sline package, however, will improve the performance and control of the Audi too.
Decisions, decisions.
I certainly hope you have at least taken a stick shift out for a long long long test drive on all kinds of roads.
:shades:
Greg, on the 1% chance that you are telling the truth, please show some common sense and tell your dad that you would prefer to have a nice 2 or 3 year old Honda civic coupe to begin your car ownership with.
Half the fun of owning a car at your age is "messing with it", taking things apart and putting them back together to learn how they operate and what they do.
Starting out with the car of your dreams at 15 gives you nothing (carwise) to look forward to. Best of luck to you in the future.
Ironically today I am willing to spend extra money for the option of driving a manual car.
I am so grateful that I was not able to afford a automatic Integra, otherwise I would have become one of those avid slushbox fans that buy up 90 percent of our autos in N. America
As many times as it has been suggested, Greg has never given any indication that he has been to a dealer to drive any of these cars.
Len
It appears VW may try again in selling premium luxury cars like the Phaeton. IMO GM's Roger Smith looks like a genius when compared to Piech. VW's highest wages, lowest productivity and the least reliable autos in the industry are the least of VW's worries when compared to having such an incompetent chairman as Piech in the helm.
businessweek
Pischetsrieder's recent move to steer Volkswagen down-market -- reversing the premium strategy that Piëch himself carved out for the German auto maker during his tenure as CEO in the 1990s -- has bred resentment between the two men.
The last straw might have been Pischetsrieder's recent decision to yank Piëch's pride and joy, the $70,000 Phaeton luxury sedan, from the U.S. market, where it suffered from dismally low sales.
Analysts fear that if Piëch gets to crown a new CEO -- some believe it could be Audi boss Martin Winterkorn -- he could shift gears again, investing in more up-market models in a bid to rival BMW and Mercedes.
2) I have never ever seen such a creative auto ad like the one linked below. Unfortuantely it is not a LPS ad ---click on the "watch" bar at the bottom of the screen. THen watch the British Honda Choir simulate car sounds.
Greatest Ad in Automotive History
Blows away anything else talked about on this forum.
As for the sentiment that you have so many years to grow into and appreciate finer vehicles, you can get hit by a bus tomorrow.
Life is fragile. There are no guarantees.
Get the best car you can now.
Live for the present.
Experience now what the best in life has to offer and that happens to be BMW, vehicularly speaking, in this price category.
By the way, my first car was a 1953 Nash Rambler. My folks bought it for me in 1959 at a cost of $700. I was 16 at the time. It was one great car, mainly because it had reclining front seats. It was a 3 speed manual with overdrive, so effectively it was a 4 speed. I loved it!!
I often think that all those old cars from back then would have driven much better if we had had radial tires. They came along later. Anyway, I hope you get what you want.
Toyota, meanwhile, aims to boost sales of the high-end Lexus LS hybrid in Germany.
The carmaker sold more than 130,000 vehicles in Germany last year, increasing its market share there to about 4%. But lifting Lexus sales, which totaled slightly less than 3,000 units last year, will not be easy.
This is due to a structural factor. More than half of the customers in Germany's 1-million-unit luxury car market are corporate clients, which are loyal to BMW AG and other local automakers. In addition, it is estimated that more than 70% of midsize and large luxury cars there are powered by diesel engines. This means that Toyota, which does not sell a midsize or large model with such an engine, can compete for just 300,000 to 400,000 vehicle sales.
To strengthen its push for the LS hybrid, Toyota will seek to impress high-profile drivers. Specifically, the automaker will offer test drives and discounts to state environmental ministers and officials of major nongovernmental organizations promoting environmental protection, hoping they will purchase the eco-friendly car and promote it in influential circles.
link title
You will blow them all out of the water.
You will be disappointed with the 525's acceleration.
I would choose the non-nav. 330i with sport package over the 525 any day.
Without navigation in the 330i, you can avoid getting iDrive.
BMW should phase out the 525i. For a $50k LPS, you should expect to be driving a rocket.
The 525 sadly is anything but.
He has it down to two choices. He claims he will not even consider a stick shift.
Of the two choices, given the limitations he has placed on this, the Sline A6 is the winna. If he would even consider the stick shift, the 525xi stick would be plenty fast, but not as quick as the Audi, but for my $54K pretty darn cool and FUN.
Greg is not keen on a stick shift -- so the lunatic fringe just can't be heard.
"I know you're out there. . ."
I'm sure he would love a 330i sport or if a 5 series-at least a 530i sport-both cars available with a steptronic tranny-if you must.
The 525i is a waste of money, IMHO.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the M35 either.
I will be taking another look at it when my signature begins to fade on my 545 lease in 2 years.
I notice that CR gave a perfect 100 to the Porsche Boxster. Wow!
The 525i is over-priced for what you get-weak engine, so-so interior.
The Audi interior is very handsome and the exterior is also very nice. You won't find many of them around.
You can probably get a great deal too, since it hasn't been selling too well in the USA.
If you were willing to step up to at least a 530i sport, then I would say go with the BMW.
This young man is very status conscious, however, and the cars in his school parking lot are all BMW's and the like.
One has to hope he will be responsible.
Not all young people are defendants on Judge Judy and/or have a death wish.
The BMW has slightly superior steering feel and handling. That said I feel BMW's can tend to be a little nervous. Audi's to me have a more planted feel.[Like growing grass under the wheels.] Audi's have a beautiful quality to them that allows you to drive them all day and not feel beat up. You will lose a little of that "at the limit telepathy" that the bimmer offers.
So, have you driven them? The biggest advice I can say to you is, when you are driving a car with the capabilities, and reputation that these two auto makers have earned, you are either driving them out of an educated decision, or as a poser who drives whatever the "cool people" drive.
Don't be another moron who bought a bimmer cause it's cool. Buy it as an educated car enthusiast who can answer the questions asked by non- car peasants :P. Understand that a fine German automobile is an experience. Most other makes are a tool for point A to B.
Now, no more questions until you have driven them both. :mad:
If every 15 year old in the world was showered with gifts like a A6 or BMW5 , then there would be no need for any youth to face Judge Judy or have a death wish.(unless ofcourse if daddy changes his mind and buys his son a Corolla instead, then things might get homicidal)
The Corollas will be found in the teachers' parking lot.
And how many memorial pages are there in the yearbook?
Call me the stick in the mud if you insist, but I'll repeat what I said before. Even the wimpiest car is a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands at the wrong time. Or even the right hands at the wrong time. Careful, experienced drivers die too, even when they're driving carefully, because you just never know what the other guy is going to do. So why look for trouble unnecessarily? Inexperience plus a powerful engine is an ill-advised combination. My children are way too precious to me to take that chance.
YMOV.
I am a tech-weenie, so you will pardon me for having Tivo in my bedroom. Well it was actually 7:12AM and I rewound and fast forwarded whilst having a cup of coffee until I found the reference to "James Bond, Aston Martin, Stick Shift and Girlie-man."
The new James Bond, so says Katie or Matt, is being forced to "drive a Ford" since he can't drive the Aston Martin with the stick shift (hence Katie's comment that any [Bond} man who can't drive a stick is a "Girlie-man.")
Then it hit me -- the paucity of stick shifts in THE place or at least A place where I would expect them to be "universally" offered (the LPS cars, natch) has nothing to do with their suitability or even appropriate-ness in this class, it simply is (or must be) that driving a stick shift is a skill that has for all practical purposes atrophied.
No wonder the [high school] "boys" (and there are some "girls," too) at my local full-service car wash seem un-phazed by my assertions (hopefully delivered and taken in good nature) that "real men" (and "real women") can drive sticks. I tell them not to EVER admit they can't drive a stick and to make haste to learn to drive one.
"Buggy whips will be back again, you mark my words!" :surprise:
I used to get a rise out of these "kids" when I would needle them as they attempted to find the correct match of engine RPM and clutch slippage to move my car foward starting out in 5th gear (amid the smell of burning clutch and whisps of bluish smoke) as I ran toward the car yelling "stop! stop! I'll take it from here!")
No more.
Stick shifts are officially off the "cool-dar" apparently. For if even James Bond cannot drive a car with a stick, what are the rest of us to do to even attempt to perpetuate this drive line?
Ahhh -- James driving the Audi 200 turbo quattro in "The Living Daylights" (with a stick of course) and now James driving a Ford whatchamacallit instead of an Aston Martin, signifies the end of an era.
I'm turning my Audi in right now and getting, wait a minute, I already have become the "girlie man" of my nightmares, what with my lousy two-pedal emasculated but still pretending LPS car. Luxury Posing as Sport is the new TLA don't you think?
Or don't you? :confuse:
Apparently, you aren't out there, Lunatic Fringe.
Thirty years ago I made fun of my boss (delicately, of course)for driving a Jaguar with an automatic. I told him that no sports car should come with an automatic.
He replied "They stopped making sports cars when they put in A/C and rollup windows."
You are one of a dieing breed. The rest of us are why the L is first in LpS. I'm sorry for your loss.
Len
And for those for whom the above is an impossible dream, one can still test drive these vehicles.
Can you imagine ordering any of the above with automatic?
Absolute heresy, I say.
"Lunatic fringe reporting for duty sir"
I agree that it would be sad to not be able to experience the joy of driving a true sports car with a stick on a hilly and winding country road because you never learned how to use a stick. But I still think that Mark and you other "purists" are missing the point that a stick is neither fun nor beneficial to use in bumper-to-bumper urban traffic, when you are creeping along going somewhere between 0 and 15 mph with your left foot riding the clutch. I would bet Mark doesn't spend much time doing that in Cincinnati, but move to LA or NYC or DC and try it, and I think you'll change your perspective on this.
Len's correct: should we give up electric windows just because it is harder to adjust the space of the opening exactly as much as you want than it is with roll-down windows? There are trade-offs to many technology upgrades, but people are willing to weigh those trade-offs and make a decision based on their own needs.
Mark is not a lunatic on the fringe; he is just in a minority of drivers in how they want to drive their everyday cars (most people don't have the luxury of having a sports car in their garage for weekend driving only).
A 15 year probably has no prior experience to compare to.... A 525i will seem absolutely fine if he doesn't jade himself by driving a 550i.
When I was 16, I got my first car... a used 1987 Mazda 323 LX sedan (stick, of course!), and I never thought twice about its power. Of course, I got a new Nissan Maxima as my first car out of college... only then did I realize the Mazda was pretty weak!
All it takes is a spine.
I will try, I mean really try, to take a 525 i or xi for a test drive this Saturday whilst our X3 3.0 stick is in for its first oil change @ 17,000 miles.
Oh, BTW, I mean ONLY a manual version of this car, I have no doubt it is less than fun with the auto and the lower powered engine.
Unfortunately, we have plenty of grid lock here in our big town (or, if you like small city) -- yet the stick would still be my pref.
Listen, I only want the choice -- I really want us each to have what we WANT.
I am given little choice is my point.
An S4 just isn't quite big enough.
Exactly on point. LpS.
BTW, my boss was lamenting the loss of the bolt-on windows, as in the 1950's MGs. Roll-ups did not belong on a sports car.
Len
Ideally it would be great to have 2 vehicles-an Accord with automatic for daily city driving and a 911 stick for exhilarating weekend jaunts.