Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Luxury Performance Sedans

1138139141143144201

Comments

  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    You bet. You've to understand, before any new Lexus comes out, its fans come out in force to say how it's the new standard and going to eat the competition alive.

    Now GS is falling behind the long-dissed Infiniti, it's payback time. And the time for the IS is coming too!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    True. The new GS just before it came out was being touted by Lexus management as the new "5 killer." Needless to say, anticipation was high.
    What a laughing stock!
    Can you believe anything those guys say?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Infiniti, not Lexus has "caught the scent" of the 5 series. This may be harsh, but I think I would rather have the STS -- especially after having driven one at the Car and Driver Road and Track "editor for a day" affair.

    The Lexus (NOT the new GS, to be fair and fully disclose) was way too cushy. The last gen GS was certainly a quality car and probably as has been duly noted reliable (more than the rest) -- Lexus, thus far, seems to be less interested in performance. Someone has to scratch that itch and by all accounts they do it very well, indeed.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    If I couldn't swing a good deal on the 545, I would have gone with the M35.
    I found it had plenty of power, making the M45 superfluous.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    And the M45 @ $5 gallon for gas is Thirsty! :cry:
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    GS has bombed the sales charts, and it was expected. The styling is so hideous,

    1. The headlights on GS are like somebody plucked out their eyeballs and running for help here and there. The serial killer headlights on 5 are at least intimidating.

    2. The C-pillar and the overall shoulder line is too meaty and lardy. The sleekness in lines is just not there.

    3. handling is way off the mark, I guess they should put the IS engineer in charge of GS and IS both next time and

    4. HIRE a GOOD DESIGNER for christ's sake. poach it from aston martin or wherever but do something. FAST!!
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    My Subaru Impreza is actually quite sporty in term of driving fun without the gas guzzling penalty. It runs on regular gas, all season tires that would last 50K miles. It'd go around corners as quickly as most of these much heavier LPS with emphasis on the P. However, when I get tire of all this sportiness (after driving it about three days in a row), then back to the luxurious GS I go.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I think M45 shape has improved greatly compared to previous generation M (which was probably the most hideous infiniti ever), but its still way behind the sleek lines of E-class.

    The design looks like a stocky foot-ball player, but in this class what they need is a sleek swimmer.

    I hope they get it right next time or its doom for M.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wouldnt call the GS a "bomb" just yet. It was in 3rd place until recently, and its still ahead of the A6, STS, and RL (now that's a marketplace bomb). The GS300 is currently stuck with back-of-the-pack power, which doesn't do the AWD version any favors. The upcoming GS350 and 460 could definitely improve sales.

    I would call this GS a "miss", but not a disaster. Hopefully Lexus will take steps to make the car better before 2014.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    How is it doom for M? The M is the best looking and best handling Japanese LPS, and the sales are reflecting that. I think Infiniti is doing just fine.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    M does not get even one third of buyers coming to 5 and E, and is just a disaster.

    Have you looked at the last 5 year sales figures for GS and compared them to 5 and E.

    Sales is the king, and if we go by that measure, M and GS are still way behind.

    Comparing M's sales in 2005 with 2004 is just not going to do wonders.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    As gas climbs past $3.00 and heads for $4, and if that sticks, fuel economy is going to become a factor, even among luxury/performance buyers. If so, the M35/M45 are going to suffer, because they have notably poor gas mileage, worse than most of the other cars discussed here, except, perhaps, the RL which weighs in at nearly 4,000 pounds.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Sales is the king, and if we go by that measure, M and GS are still way behind.

    So I guess by that measure, bankrupt GM is 20 times more "kingly" than Porsche, the most profitable car company on the planet?

    I personally think the 5 series is a superior car to the M or GS, but I wouldn't rely on sales figures to tell me that, but rather my own driving impressions. And I also think that "sport" and automatic transmissions are mutually exclusive, but even within the 5 series, 85%+/- of the buyers opt for automatics. So be careful to extrapolate too much from sales vloumes or you might conclude we should all drive automatic Camrys - I'd shoot myself first.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Profits!

    So no, I did not forget profits. GM is a king without the queen and that is bad, very bad.

    BMW is the king with a statuesque queen,
    and so is Toyota and Chrysler (these days).

    So when you are talking about the king, dont miss your queen ;)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I may be personalizing too much, but when I consider what my next sedan might be, the BMW 5-series is still the "driver's choice". A facelift of the E-class won't help win me over. A couple of AMG engineers taking a long enough break from their quest to produce a 1,000+ horsepower E77 to focus on a sportier chassis, better steering and, most of all, short throw 6-speed for an E500 model would do the trick. But I'm not turning red holding my breath.

    Well Habitat1 we've had this conversation before and I think you'll just have to realize that Mercedes and BMW are different and thats pretty much the way it will always be. There wouldn't be a market for a 6-speed in a E500 in the U.S. market. The better chassis/steering I think they've done with the FL or at least that is what they've said, but again they aren't aiming for an outright 5-Series competitor. A Mercedes just isn't for you, now enjoy that Porsche! ;)

    There appears to be a sea of choices for someone that wants a "nice" driving, powerful luxury sedan like an A6, M35/45, E350/500, RL, GS, Jaguar, etc. But if you are inclined to go for a 550i 6-speed like I would be, there are NO other choices. I'd take a 530i 6-speed sport long before I'd take anybody else's V8.

    This is true as far as V8s go in this class so I agree here. If you want to row your own gears you're correct here too. No argument from me.

    So, what's the wager?

    Nothing major just a "gentlemen's" bet on who will win the E vs. 5 sales race in 2006.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Will it? The V8 is now stronger, but the E500 wasn't exactly slow. As for the facelift, to me it looks nearly identical to last year, both inside and out. I dont think changes only the most diehard Benz fanatic will notice are enough for it to suddenly kill the 5 in sales.

    Yeah I think it will because along with those barely noticeable exterior changes they've repackaged the options and made more things standard (finally). They're getting a clue in that area now. It isn't all about the new engines and cosmetic changes, though the engines will add something for some folks for sure. True you'd have to be a Benz fan to notice the changes, but that is usually the case with most "facelifts" on any of the brands in this class.

    Oh, and not that I think it will "kill" the 5-Series in sales that won't happen. That is kinda overstating what I said. Me and Dewey just are having a little fun here trying to see who will outsell who this year. The killing is the the 5 and E do to most of the other cars in the segments as far as sales go.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I can't see anyone in his right mind paying a premium for a dog like the GS when so many better choices are out there.

    The GS has has very little interior room, limited head room, uncomfortable seats, very little trunk space, a ridiculously placed open-close panel containing necessary controls, fussy brakes, turn it with one pinky steering, cannot perform with its peers as demonstrated in comparo after comparo, and given all that, sells at a ridiculous premium.

    The name Lexus can take a vehicle just so far.
    It's about time Lexus humanely puts this vehicle to sleep.


    Scathing criticism there....you've set off the circuits with that one!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You bet. You've to understand, before any new Lexus comes out, its fans come out in force to say how it's the new standard and going to eat the competition alive.

    Oh Mariner7 why, why oh why did you state the obvious? :D

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    You're not making any sense. The M is a disaster? Since when? Are you saying that M cant match the sales of 5 and E combined? What is the point of that?

    We're not talking about 2001 GS sales, or sales of the last generation M45, which WAS a disaster.

    Considering how long the 5 and E have been dominating the LPS segment, I think the M is doing amazingly well. Infiniti has been seriously competing in this segment for less than a year. To expect a company like Infiniti which doesnt have the badge prestige, doesnt have the dealer network, and only totals maybe 100K sales a year to topple the segment's two 800lb. gorillas in less than a year on the market is rediculous.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Infiniti: 2417 M sales represents 25.1% of total Infiniti sales for April

    Lexus: 2336 GS sales represents 9.4% of total Lexus sales for April

    Acura: 1031 RL sales represents 5.3% of total Acura sales for April

    Despite the brand selling less than half the number of cars in April compared to Acura and Lexus, the M beat the GS and crushed the RL. Please explain to me how the M is a "failure".
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Poor Acura what are they to do? I keep reading about a lower-priced RL to arrive this summer/fall with less equipment and a price closer to 40K instead of 50K. I guess that might help.

    This time last year the RL, STS, GS, M and MB's own CLS made me cringe to think what all these newer models would do to the E-Class in terms of sales, but the one that took the spot would turn out to be an old friend (sort of) in the class, the 5-Series. Go figure. :confuse:

    Steve has it wrong about the M, LG. For a car with literally no past or reputation to sell as good as it has so far is a great success IMO.

    M
  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    ...have to realize that Mercedes and BMW are different and thats pretty much the way it will always be.

    I agree completely. But as an aside, Mercedes/AMG has expended a lot of effort trying to win me (2003 M5) over. We have been invited to several Mercedes "VIP" events and had both an E55 and S55 offered to us for full weekend test drives. This is all coming from MBNA, not the local dealer who I know personally.

    When I mentioned at the last such event that I was considering a Porsche 911 S or Turbo for later this year or next, I was called 2 days later with the offer of an SLK55 for the weekend and a "top priority" spot for the future CLK63 or SLK63. Beuatiful cars, I'm sure, but of absolutely no interest to me.

    You or I might agree that Mercedes/AMG does not compete directly with BMW/M or Porsche, but don't tell the MBNA marketing guys that - I rather enjoy their wining and dining me. :)

    P.S. Remember the original 300E? It was available with a 5 speed manual and my neighbor bought one of the very few such equiped ones that was imported into the US. He taught all of his kids how to drive a stick with it.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Interesting take on it. Well I do think they compete with BMW/M and Porsche, but not directly if that makes sense. They can't be competing directly without manuals and even sportier setups, but these AMG cars aren't slouches either, just a more relaxed take on performance, a super GT if you will. I've always thought of a Mercedes as a heavy grand touring car relative to BMWs and especially Porsches. I don't know why they would give you a S55 if you're an M5 driver, that car is way to big and slanted towards luxury to compare to the M5. There is news that Mercedes may be offering sportier setups on certain AMG models, tenatively called "Track Sport" editions, but still no manuals for guys like you and habitat. :cry:

    I don't blame you for taking them up on their offers I know I would!!

    Yes I remember the 300E (W124), first Benz I ever drove. It was also the car that got me to liking Mercedes-Benz, especially the 500E version. That car is probably still my favorite Benz of all time. I remember a commercial for the 300E from back then in which the manual version topped out at 140 mph and the auto 137 mph. There was even a manual tranny SL320 in the early nineties they imported a whole 100 of them...lol!

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    It's what I do! ;)
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans:

    E = 3,778
    5 = 3,699
    M = 2,417
    GS = 2,336
    STS =
    A6 = 1,555
    RL = 1,031


    I think the GS sales will regain third place if Lexus can make and deliver all 2000 GS450h by December.

  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767

    1. The headlights on GS are like somebody plucked out their eyeballs and running for help here and there. The serial killer headlights on 5 are at least intimidating.


    I agree the head and tail lights can use some improvement. Some thing along the line of the LS460 would be nice.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Considering how long the 5 and E have been dominating the LPS segment. . .

    This is accurate if you so stipulate that you are limiting your LPS ADI (area of dominant influence) to the United States (or the US + Canada.)

    What might be useful ("might be") would be to note the sales of the LPS crowd globally.

    How does the Infiniti M35 and M45 stack up when total sales worldwide are factored in? Ditto Acura's RL, Audi's A6, Lexus GS, and so on (heck include the STS for fun, too.)

    I read this, recently:

    "In Europe, the German luxury marque Audi is now on a par with rivals like Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Yet in the States, Audi is a mere also-ran, selling barely a third as many cars as the luxury segment's leaders."

    Apparently (from the rest of this article and from other blogs), Audis cost more than their rivals in Europe yet sell on par with BMW and Mercedes.

    Is it possible to acquire an M or a GS "readily" in Europe? One would imagine that in the UK these Japanese built cars would be offered since both the Japanese and UK drivers require right hand drive cars. . . .

    Anyway, my point is to note that the 5 and E may only dominate (sales-wise) in the US, which is hugely important, but perhaps not as important as Europe and South America or Asia or maybe even the Middle East and India as these areas (most likely the latter ones noted in the list) will be where the most significant growth will (and is already) come from.

    It is important that the 5 and E are dominant (in the US), of that there is little or no doubt. It is not a complete picture, however.

    Does the 5, to pick one, "dominate" the world over?

    Its a small world, after all, as the song goes. . . :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Apparently (from the rest of this article and from other blogs), Audis cost more than their rivals in Europe yet sell on par with BMW and Mercedes."

    No problem believing that. I wonder... How much of the disparity in Audi sales between North America and Europe has to do with the fact that their excellent Diesel technology is only available over there?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    "70% of Audis, BMW's and Mercedes LPS offerings are sold in diesel form in Europe."

    I am certain the numbers are NOT dead on identical for these three brands, but the gist of what I have been reading is that for all practical purposes, the diesel versions of these three LPS cars (in Europe) outsell the gas versions (70% to 30%.)

    Unless there IS a huge disparity, I would assume this is not THAT significant.

    Note: In Europe the 3.0TDI Audi A6 is ~900 Euros less than its "lower performing" (slightly) and much thirstier 3.2 gasoline version sibling.

    "You mean, I could buy an A6 TDI that will out accelerate, go farther on a gallon of diesel (that generally cost less than a gallon of premium gasoline), last longer (by about 100,000 miles), output 30 - 60% less greenhouse emissions and go for about a $1,000 less?"

    "Technically yes, but you can't buy one here in the US."

    "Why not?"

    "Hmm, technically because we will not offer widespread availability of CLEAN DIESEL fuel until 3rd or 4th quarter 2006."

    "Who's bright idea was that to NOT mandate such fuel sooner?"

    "Not mine."

    "Who, really?"

    "You figure it out, I have to go to place a wreath on the tomb of the unregistered voter."

    "Oh I get it."

    "No, no you don't -- you don't even get a clue."

    "Now you're being insulting."

    "No, its just that there is no such thing as common sense, and the perpetuation of the myth that there is, keeps holding us back, costing us money and depriving us."

    "Get off your soapbox you oaf."

    "Sticks and stones."

    "Seriously, what would happen if our LPS cars, just as a starting point were suddenly available in diesel format."

    "Truthfully, no one knows -- but what could happen according to the EPA (2/2006), '. . .the US could save the amount imported from Saudi Arabia if one-thrid of US vehicles ran on diesel. . .' so to the extent that LPS cars are only a fraction of the total, perhaps the impact would be diminimus."

    "What are you a lawyer."

    "No, but I do play one on TV."

    "Seriously."

    "Now who's the oaf?"

    "Touche."

    "All the stuff that we now enjoy in our econo boxes, stuff like power steering, brakes, windows and air conditioning were first offered in Lux cars -- then trickled down to the rest. Were all LPS cars to come out with diesel with the performance improvements, fuel economy improvements and slightly lower prices that we have seen elsewhere, well it stands to reason that the near-LPS cars, and so on down the food chain, would soon be offered with diesel and we theoretically could accelerate [no pun intended] away from our dependance on middle eastern oil."

    "Dream on big boy."

    "Speaking of Big Boy's -- how about lunch?"

    "You're on."

    "Moron."

    "Bedwetter."

    "Friends?"

    "Of course."

    :blush:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "How does the Infiniti M35 and M45 stack up when total sales worldwide are factored in? Ditto Acura's RL, Audi's A6, Lexus GS, and so on (heck include the STS for fun, too.)"

    Thats somewhat hard to determine. If you count only Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus versions, their global sales outlook is pretty poor. If you factor in Nissan Fuga, Honda Legend, and Toyota Aristo sales though, then it might be more balanced. I'm not sure.

    Edit: Actually, I think the Aristo is no more, and the car is badged as the Lexus GS in all markets.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    I think the GS sales will regain third place if Lexus can make and deliver all 2000 GS450h by December.

    1. Hybrid sales (Prius, Accord & Civic hybrids) are way down recently. No sure why luxury buyers are more concerned about gas price than economy buyers.

    2. GS and competitors sales are driven mostly by sales of V6 versions, so why would GS460h do much for sales?

    GS is just doing the typical Lexus nose dive for sporty sedans. IS will do the same!

    Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are only in a few markets, so can't do a worldwide sales comparison. Infiniti and Acura are not even in their homemarket of Japan yet. Infiniti is doing the smart thing though, expanding in the exploding developping economies of India, China, Korea and Russia first, before the well established markets of Europe and Japan. In the developing countries, there's much more growth potential and Infiniti and Lexus can compete with MB and BMW in more even terms.
  • moxiemoxie Member Posts: 33
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    ya know, I can hear that conversation...

    TOO FUNNY!

    -Paul
  • gwhjrgwhjr Member Posts: 1
    want to buy new mb e320 cdi but am wondering if electrical problems are enough to buy something else. am diesel fan but do not want predictable headaches.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    but just didn't feel like the car was what we wanted. Kinda along the Lexus lines, just didn't do it for us. The other German offerings felt better to us.

    I sure hope Audi A6 TDI and BMW 530 TDI happen. Would be sweet!

    -Paul
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Audi for one (and so has Mercedes, I believe) confirmed more and more better diesels for the NA market starting with the Q7 and A6 from Audi and just expanding to beat the band from Mercedes.

    This is a good thing! :surprise:
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    GS and competitors sales are driven mostly by sales of V6 versions, so why would GS460h do much for sales?

    I will bet that Lexus will sells every single GS450h they could bring to NA this year. Also, its MSRP is the same as a loaded 530i's. I don't know whether the latter is selling at much lower price than MSRP and the former is not. The one apparent draw back for the GS450h is the trunk space. Furthermore, the GS450h may take away some regular GS sales.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Please dont misunderstand, I am a great admirer of Lexus and I am on your side.

    Incidently I am one of those rare species who love both benz and lexus. And I defend and attack both of them. If you dont believe it read my earlier posts in various threads.

    I am not talking about combined 5&E sales I am talking about year to year sales of M,GS and RL compared to 5&E .

    I think M and GS sales are way behind, not even half of what the german brands are selling.

    5: 55,000 approx every year
    E: same
    GS: 10-15,000 every year (pathetic)
    M: 20,000 (last year only), before that it was a joke.

    The solution: GS needs more pizzaz and performance and sexy sheet metal, something akin to what they have done with IS and the upcoming LS 460 and 600h L.

    For M: They need a new fresh V8 to boost the sales and make the car look less bulky, fat in exterior design. It should look more sleek like E-class or aston martin.

    The headlights and front facia are too gross and although its a huge improvement over the previous M, more work needs to be done.

    I saw the interior in NY auto show and it was great!
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    hilarious posting as usual. What about the Q5, [if it actually gets made] With a stick? [if it actually gets made]
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well if that is the case then the GS450h isn't going to help the overall sales picture for the GS line. Plus the GS450h is limited to like what 2K units, hardly enough to make a difference.

    I predict the GS sales will rise again once the GS350 and GS460 go on sale, but then what does Lexus do for the remaining 5-6 year after that engine update. If I were Lexus I'd let the GS go to MY2008 and then do the engine along with a facelift that gives the car a little change in looks and driving qualities. Other wise if they just do an engine swap for 2007 to the 350/460 the GS will run out of steam by 08/09 especially when the next E comes along. The GS has always been overshadowed by the LS anyway and the new LS460 will likely make the GS430 irrelevant like it has in the past. They've been too close together in price and the GS has never been truly sporty enough to make a real difference IMO. This time though Lexus might take the LS' base price out of the 55-60K bracket giving the upcoming GS460 more room.

    M
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    The problem with GS is that in size, softness and bland design it rivals the ES. So the customer thinks for a moment and then goes for the ES.

    ES sales: 65-70K /year
    GS sales: 15-20 K/year.

    One solution is to retire the ES altogether since it wont sell outside US anyway (and introduce higher camry trims to make-up for the sales) and make GS sexier and sportier.

    Lexus cannot afford to be US centric anymore as it takes the plunge into global market place.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Where are you getting these figures for GS and M? Have you been looking at their monthly reports? You are implying that the E and 5 are averaging at least 4600 sales a month (which the E often misses quite badly), and yet you seem to think that the GS and M are selling like the RL, when in reality they are selling 26,000 to 28,000 cars a year.

    First GS was 10-15K, now its 15-20K in your next post. Which is it?
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Well if that is the case then the GS450h isn't going to help the overall sales picture for the GS line. Plus the GS450h is limited to like what 2K units, hardly enough to make a difference.

    If they averaged about 200 more sales to otherwise non-GS buyers due to this model per month from now until year end (2000/7 = 285), that should be enough to take back the third spot from the M. Then the new engines for the regular GS plus any face lift should continue the sales support.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well we'll see but those sales may be at the expense of the GS430/460. I really don't see the point of the GS450h when I really think about it, especially when the GS460 comes along...but that is another story. I just don't see the GS having staying power like the E or 5-Series. I think the M will take its spot for the next few years simply because it is more exciting car, just a fresher entry IMO. Then again who knows the M might just fade away after its 15 minutes are up, but the decent staying power of the G35 says otherwise.

    M
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    The problem with GS is that in size, softness and bland design it rivals the ES. So the customer thinks for a moment and then goes for the ES.

    IMO, the GS is nothing like the ES. It does have a sporty component to it that the ES or LS don't. It has everything that a Lexus should have to go with that sporty side. It may not be enough to be compared with the more serious LPS with emphasis on the P, but it fills a gap in the Lexus line up nicely.
    I think Merc1 is right that one of the draw backs is that the GS has been priced too closely with the LS.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Once the GS350 and GS460 are available, Lexus could up the ante with a GS500h or GS600h(?).
    Both BMW and Benz have more than 2 models in the 5 and the E series which probably contributes to higher sales numbers i.e. something for every taste...
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    This is true...

    M
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .now that the talking heads and politicos are all abuzz about gas prices alternative fuels, off shore drilling and alchemy, one would expect the readily available information pertaining to diesels would surface on ABC, Bloomberg, CBS, CNBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC, the Daily Show and Countdown with Keith Oberman.

    Instead there was a 3.76 second quote from our Prez indicating that maybe we might want to consider extending and/or strengthening the case for tax credits for hybrids.

    Buried in the report -- which was mostly about the outrage of the consumer and their political leaders (of both parties) on price gouging -- was a statement which essentially MEANT (but did not quite say) hybrid sales, even with incentives, have been unimpressive.

    I am not opposed to new technologies. I also am in favor of exploiting and improving current technologies.

    The evidence, thus far, is overwhelming that we could IMMEDIATELY reduce our dependance upon Middle Eastern oil (which we are told is a laudable goal, right?) by rapidly ramping up our adoption of diesel motivation (check out Europe's adoption rate and check out what the EPA says the impact of even a minority utilization of diesel engines in our cars and trucks could mean.)

    A great disservice is apparently being perpetuated on the NA public -- and that is the lack of "news stories" extolling the possibilities and outcomes of using this reliable (and apparently cheaper to build and cheaper to operate) technology.

    We may well all be driving cars that use electric motors sometime in the future -- and because there IS promise there, we should not stop pursuing this technology.

    However, we should be talking about what we can realistically do "now."

    With 70% diesel LPS penetration (and an overall 33% diesel adoption) in Europe as a backdrop, there are so many questions that are raised by the lack of information broadcast by "the Media."

    This is almost tantamount to having a side-effect free cure for a disease or condition and not shouting it from the electronic rooftops.

    My upper-middle class neighbors all gather from time to time in the new home theater and bar of one of our ilk and bemoan the $3.00+ gas prices our Audis, Bimmers and Infinitis require. When I mention diesels to these mostly 40 something MBA's they universally look at me as if I had six heads (I have but four.)

    I explain, as I do here, the cost of acquisition and operation, the EPA statements, the fuel costs and lifetime fuel costs (assuming $3.00 per gallon is just a foretelling of things to come), the PERFORMANCE and LUXURY, the diesel durability reputation and on and on; and, you know what? these guys, whilst swilling their Premium Beers (Amstel Light, you know since we are trying to avoid the spare tire) say, "If all this stuff is true, Mark, why in the wide wide world of sports isn't THIS THE TOPIC regularly and frequently on the news programs from the TODAY SHOW to BILL O'REILLY to THE DAILY SHOW to the COLBERT REPORT?

    Why indeed.

    One more time: "I did not have sex with that" No No, wait a minute -- "LPS cars will be the logical and practical place to immediately offer high performance diesel motivation -- followed within a year or two by the trickle down and availability across all makes and models."

    What the heck are we waiting for?

    I want my hot rod, fuel sipping LPS car -- NOW, well OK how about 2007?

    The industry and the media have their heads up their -- noses! :confuse:
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    IMO Lexus as a brand appeals mostly to a certain class of buyers, who prefer comfort and willowy rides, so all the engine combinations won't help GS and IS that much.

    Before GS introduction, I said on Edmunds, if I were the GS product manager, I'd sorely tempted to make it as soft and luxurious as possible, because that'd play to the strength of the Lexus appeal.

    Just look at the Toyota sales leaders (Camry, Avalon, Corolla). Every single one is the softest ride in its class. Lexus should've made GS softer than STS or S-type, then it'd have a pretty chance of being the 3rd best seller in its class. As it is, I don't think it has any chance of overtaking M again.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    The past experiences I have had with Diesel, I use to have to change the oil every hundred hours ...I was wondering if they have been able to extend the oil change time in the newer model engines? Tony
Sign In or Register to comment.