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Comments
I tend to agree with your take on things. The ca is actually for my SIL, and one of the criteria is no German cars. She also isn't into 10/10th handling at the expense of ride, but does like something with tight steering and good road holding (she has an FX 35 now, so should feel comfy with the M35).
I personally have a soft spot for BMWs, but also hate overly complicated controls (must be a closet Ludite), so that idrive might drive me nuts. The Audi does sound like a nice package too. The Caddy I couldn't get into.
Actually, for me, I would prefer the next size down. I consider a G35 or 3 series to be plenty big for my needs.
Oh, and the M would be ruled out: no stick shift!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Actually, from what I have read, the upcoming Volvo S80 could be a strong player, especially for people that are tired of the German-lead fascination with overly complex gizmos and controls. Swedish modern might just appeal to a few people!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Volvo's CR scores are no better than Mercedes, BMW, or Audi, so I wouldn't pick them if you're seriously concerned about reliability. In fact, the S40 has much worse scores for '05 than the 3 series, A4, and even the C class.
I'm sure the S80's seats are going to be fantastic, but I dont think the M or A6 have any reason to worry in terms of performance.
When I'm surfing here or reading CR and JD Powers, the only car I can see owning is the M35/M45 or a Lexus. I cannot buy German because other U.S. owners complain about their reliability to CR and JD Powers. And I'm going to drive the car for six years and 100K. In this world, when asked about their car, everyone answers only in terms of lesser or greater number of trips to service department. They care about nothing else.
In my everyday world, I drove a 100% trouble-free BMW in 2004-2005, which I took to service once, for scheduled maintenance at about 13K. I lease cars, so am not thinking of which one will be trouble-free at 90K. My friends are thoroughly enjoying a variety of cars from BMW, Mercedes, and Audi and, when asked, talk glowingly about the design, the inerior aesthetics, and the looking forward to the unique driving experience.
Yes, of course, it's possible that a Yamaha-engined Volvo will join the European sedan stable and turn out to be the car we all hope will come over the horizon: a combination of the smooth driving pleasure of a V8, the steering/handling of BMW or Aud, and Lexus-like reliability reports in CR and JD Powers. In fact, the CEO of Mercedes recently press-released a speech about MB making huge changes to achieve Lexus-like reliability by 2008.
When the M35 first appeared, CR included it in the survey of owners it conducted in the spring of 2005 for the spring-2006 annual car issue. No mention was made of the M35/M45 having been in owner's hands for only a few months, when CR reported that 92% of them said they'd buy it again or when they claimed that its "first year" reliability was very impressive and, thereby, created the impression that we'd all be crazy not to buy their "top-rated" (after only three months) LPS.
In my personal experience, I'm not sure that anything's been a better predictor of a potential-buyer ending up still being glad they bought the car two years later than that they loved the interior/exterior look and loved test-driving it. Mainly, I want to look forward to driving the car everyday and, although, on principle, having to drop a car off a few times a year to have a minor-glitch corrected is not ideal, the only car I ever regretted buying for reliability was a 1980 Saab.
I have to remind myself that I won't love a car because CR says I will.
I sold an Infiniti 2000 I30 before leaving USA and only did routine maintenance, i.e. oil changes, one antifreeze change, a belt change, and one set of tires.
CR ranks the brands on the basis of predicted reliability as follows: Volvo 12th, BMW 21st, Audi 27th, and Mercedes 32nd of a total of 36 brands. Incidentally, Infiniti is 28th, largely due the SUVs.
The predicted reliability of the S40 is "average"; same as the the A4 Avant (Audi's most reliable model) and the Z4, BMW's best model. Mercedes' most reliable model is the SLK which is rated "below-average".
That said, I will remind you that you cannot judge how much better/worse something is from purely relative data such as rankings, percentages above/below average, or little colored dots. You need absolute numbers for that.
On the 2006 JD Power IQS, Honda is ranked 6th while Audi is ranked 19th. Looks like a huge difference, doesn't it? Until you look at the actual numbers to find that it's 1.1 versus 1.3 problems/car. The same holds true for the CR data. A 45-point difference there is 1 problem/car over 3-5 years. That's the difference between "average" and "much above/below average" - the clear versus the solid red/black dot.
Brand reliability differences is largely a dead issue, except in (mis)perceptions where it thrives.
Thank you.
Polite Golf Applause, please!
CR is also relatively dead insofar as this kind of information regarding automobile choices. Now using them to find a spouse, NOW THAT makes sense!
Better yet:
Did anyone check Better Homes & Gardens for their take?
How about some other erudite auto publication, such as Money Mazine, Men's Health, Towne & Country or Ladies Home Journal.
There, I feel better now.
Happy Fourth everyone! :shades:
Those who take their M3s to the track and have set up their garages to repair recalcitrant transmissions need not worry about such things. But the rest of us, who like driving but who rarely if ever get the last 2% of performance out of their rides, and don't want to go to the dealer more often than absolutely necessary, should pay attention to CR reliability numbers. Among the best LPS's there are differences in CR-reported reliability that over four years of ownership can make a big difference in the "ownership experience." (And to those who want to say you can have a lemon Lexus or a magnificent Mercedes, I suggest you take a good remedial statistics or probability course. At the very least, don't go to Vegas with more than you can afford to lose because you will.)
I really have no interest in what the "predicted" reliability from CR is, or what the brand average is. As you pointed out yourself, the QX56 drags otherwise very reliable Infinitis into the gutter. Volvo's most recent introduction with reliability data on it is the S40. In its first year, 15%+ of owners reported electrical problems. Thats not unusual, the first year S60 in '01 and S80 in '99 were also problem prone cars. It shows that at least as recent as '04, you're taking a risk with a Volvo in its first year of production.
If you're the type of person who could care less about reliability, more power to you. However, if you're thinking of buying a first year Volvo because you're nervous about the Germans, (which will all have been in production quite awhile when the '07 S80 comes on the market), you might want to think about that, as chances are it will be less reliable than an A6 or 5 series.
I think we've already proved around here that JD Power IQS is useless when "I dont like my NAV system" is considered a "defect". No one is going to buy a car that blows up after 3 months, no matter how fantastic the driving experience is. Using IQS data to decide on what car to buy that you may keep for 5 years or more doesn't make a lot of sense. Brand averages in IQS are largely meaningless anyway, just as they are in CR. You're buying a car, not a brand.
It's not, at its foundation, in my view, about the validity or reliability (two different statistical dimensions) of CR and JDP reports. It is, rather, about what it takes for a potential car buyer to achieve a confident enough state of mind in which to initiate (in the case of this forum) a $50,000 (or $500-$800/month) action -- expecting to have to live with the choice for two to five years, or more.
All the possible positions have appeared here several times: ignore CR and JDP; give CR and JDP some weight in the buying equation; avoid cars that appear to increase probability of trips to service department, according to CR and JDP. Whichever of these positions is felt to have contributed (in the past) or to be contributing (in the midst of a current buying-decision-making situation) to someone getting into a lower-anxiety or higher-confidence state of mind will be a very appealing position for that person and it will be hard to shake them from it.
But then I really surprised myself with a trip to the Jag dealer. Wow! I started with the XJ8. Probably not what some of you would call a LPS (no manual tranny, a bit staid in design) but it was really a great ride! Fast, smooth and quiet. Great around the curves (no mountain roads around here to try), and with adequate stopping power. Not as much technology as the Caddy, but I could live with that. This car is a bit larger than the STS, but it's aluminum construction has it at about 700 lbs less. That makes it pretty nimble with great EPA mileage numbers.
But then, (and I shouldn't have done this) I moved into the XJR. Supercharged and 400 H.P. Nearly broke my neck! All of the above, but more! What a pleasure. I didn't realize that one could move down the road that quickly.
This IS a car my wife could like, and she might even drive it.
Lastly, only to look and not to drive, the brand new, 2007 XK coupe and/or convertible. There are a couple of stunning beauties! All I was able to do was sit in them and admire! (I think the test-drive schedule was a bit too long!) Maybe the next time. Again, for some of you the lack of a manual transmission may be a put off, but my left leg is getting too old to drive a standard shift in heavy, city traffic; so a six or seven speed auto is just fine with me.
Anyway, do yourself a favor. Take a look!
And remember -- Life is Better at the Beach!
Also likely to be correct -- if you buy your car based on CR's numbers you may not be quite as "enthusiastic" about cars.
And, either position, as far as I am concerned is OK.
But, "can he/she cook?"
In the scheme of things, cars and mates are overwhelmingly chosen for emotional reasons first and practical reasons secondarily (or maybe the practical is tertiary, indeed that may be even more on the mark.)
These are Luxury Performance vehicles that we argue, preen and wax poetic about.
I'd wager a heavy weight (the heaviest?) is given to the styling of the objects of one's desire we discuss here.
CR is, for some, of value -- and if you buy a car that is not the most attractive and fun that you would have bought otherwise because CR said it was in the bottom quartile of reliability. . .good (for you.)
CR is, for others, without value -- and they often buy a car that is the most attractive and fun or most fun and attractive (whatever) without regard to a score bestowed upon it by CR.
It takes all types. There are mail-order brides, there's love at first sight, there's the courtship of Eddie's father too. There's even unrequited love.
Most of us [here at least] are passionate about our cars and buying cars for these folks is mostly a right brain affair.
LPS cars are luxurious and offer at least a nod to performance. Using a ranking to acquire them probably does not occur to those who lust for the luxury and performance in a car that catches their eyes and steals their hearts.
Doing so is perfectly acceptable, however.
When I read posts that rank a car that I would (or wouldn't have) regardless of CR's rankings, it just (for me) decreases my enthusiasm for anything they say.
I know some cars are ranked higher than others -- I want whatever it is that I am driving to be more reliable (don't we all?), but cars, friends and spouses simply cannot be neatly evaluated by circles with black innards, dots or red innards and dots.
One of the folks I work with was in the market -- she was looking at a Cadillac CTS. She asked me to help her pick some other "comparable" cars to consider.
To make a long story short, she wanted the CTS and short of a free car from Audi or BMW or Infiniti, she was going to go for it (in Blue, no less.) She trotted out her CR, and of course the Infiniti was the best of the bunch -- the Cadillac was just OK.
"I really like her," was said about the Cadillac.
I knew it was over right then and there.
Three test drives and a weekend later, she pulled in with her new Cadillac.
It was not logical -- it seldom is.
She is happy.
I submit that most folks buy cars cause they are, to them, "cool."
It's all about the big "L." :shades:
I agree with you that one cannot be sure that the S40 marks a turning point in Volvo's model launches. However, there is more to that than the reliability data, such as changes in processes and dynamics.
There were two points to my previous post. First, you don't get to make up your own "facts". The second and more important point is about the correct use and interpretation of reliability data, and what the current data shows.
I used the IQS data simply to illustrate the dangers of purely relative data such as rankings. I'm not arguing about which, if any, data should be used. The last line of the post refers to the total disconnect between what the reliability data actually shows and what so many people believe.
I agree that you need to look at the history of a brand's cars for a totally new model. Using a single number or rank though for an entire brand is not very useful. "Volvo is ranked X, Mercedes is ranked Y" is largely useless information, as is CR's "predicted" score. Despite the "average" predicted rating, owners of '05 S40s reported many more problems in specific areas than owners of '05 A4s and C classes.
If I were going to buy a new S80 for myself, I would not pay any attention to what Volvo's overall rank in IQS is. I would look at other recently introduced Volvos, such as the S40. Cars that have been in production for a long time, such as the S60, will have had the bugs worked out by now. They'll improve Volvo's "average" rank for the year, but the data on an S60 thats been in production since 2001 is not useful unless you're going to buy an S60. What CR is actually useful for is that it shows what areas owners reported problems in. Engine or transmission problems are definitely worse than electrical problems. It would be nice if, rather than "2-5%" of owners equaling a half red dot, CR just said "3.8% of owners reported electical issues", but its still much more useful information than some "PP100" score for an entire brand.
I agree with you on brand rankings, and the absolute differences behind them are fairly small in any case.
Despite the "average" predicted rating, owners of '05 S40s reported many more problems in specific areas than owners of '05 A4s and C classes.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The "average" rating is a weighted combination of the problems in all areas for the model. (Engine and transmission problems weigh more heavily in the calculation than electrical problems, for example.) The S40 and the A4 got the same rating, which means the A4 had more problems in other specific areas. As for the C-Class, it's rating was lower, so it had more problems overall, despite being in production since 2001.
What CR is actually useful for is that it shows what areas owners reported problems in. Engine or transmission problems are definitely worse than electrical problems. It would be nice if, rather than "2-5%" of owners equaling a half red dot, CR just said "3.8% of owners reported electical issues",
Good luck with that! You clearly haven't been keeping up.
As of the 2005 survey (the current data) those little colored dots no longer have fixed ranges. The half-red dot used to mean 2-5%. Now, it just means less problems than the clear but more than the solid red dot. Furthermore, each dot doesn't have the same range in each of the problem areas, or in the same problem area for different years. Now everything is relative to the hidden averages for each year.
See, we're right back to my point about not being able to tell how much better/worse a thing is from purely relative data. You're absolutely (pun intended) correct that it would be better if CR just said "3.8% of owners reported electical issues". Similarly, it would be much better if CR provided the actual overall problem rate/probability for each model, rather than percentages below/above some unspecified average, or yet another little colored dot.
Perhaps the reason CR doesn't share real data is because, for many "specialty" vehicles the sample is far too small to be statistically valid. As I've alluded to earlier, filling out the survey form is a "bring your lunch" event, and the predisposition of people who are willing to fill out the thing may not be toward "impractical" vehicles.
I'm not holding my breath, but it'd be great to have the Annual Auto Issue tell the reader the total number of respondents, the number for each vehicle rated and (as you suggested) the percentage of those who experienced each category of "problem."
What constitutes a problem isn't defined either. As an example, an electrical failure that leaves the car immobile is a much bigger deal than one that leaves the sunshade immobile. Whether CR or, more importantly, the people who fill out the survey, share that opinion is anyone's guess.
Then there's the possibility, as with any self-selected polling population, that people are far more likely to participate if they have a beef than if they're satisfied.
The CR data is possibly of some value for Accords, Camrys, Impalas & Altimas (among others sold in the millions) because the sample is probably large enough to be valid. For the others, who knows?
But, other than being a time-consuming survey completed by a self-selected group, the results of which are vague at best, what's not to like?
These days, with BMW [for instance] selling between 35-45,000 5 series, it would be amusing and maybe even significant to know what the issues were and then spit out a calculated percentage.
The best source of this data would be the manufacturer's themselves who certainly keep records (at least for 50,000 miles for most of these cars here in LPS land.)
Probably won't happen unless it would be to counter the vague and perhaps statistically insignificant rankings CR provides.
Of course, CR seems to be hell bent on making its results harder and harder to interpret in any meaningful way -- perhaps the best thing is to keep quiet if you are a mfgr.
The prime directive -- from genes to magazines -- is survival and proliferation. CR does that by conveying "we have all the information you need to know exactly which car you should buy". Any method of gathering data or reporting it that subverts that agenda ain't gonna happen.
CR has a magic number of reponses below which they wont publish reliability data for a model\yr. It would be nice to know what that number is, what all of their magic numbers are, actually. I'm disappointed that the individual data dots don't actually mean anything anymore, that at least used to be the one area where you were somewhat clued in to what CR's stat machnines know.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060626/FREE/60616004/1009/V- EHICLEREVIEWS
* Sales up 9.0 percent in June, best June since 2001 * First half sales up 6.8 percent over year ago * Q7 launch off to a strong start * A4 and A6 models continue robust sales pace
AUBURN HILLS, Mich., July 3 -- Audi of America, Inc., today reported 8,039 vehicle sales for the month of June, a 9.0 percent increase over year ago sales. This is the fourteenth monthly sales increase over the past 17 months, and a positive indication that Audi will meet its goal of record sales in 2006.
Sales in June were up or on par across the Audi line up. The all-new Q7 performance SUV tallied 1,310 sales in June, the first official month of sales for that vehicle. Sales of the A3 and A6 models were up significantly again, 17.9 percent and 10.5 percent, respectively.
I'm disappointed that the individual data dots don't actually mean anything anymore, that at least used to be the one area where you were somewhat clued in to what CR's stat machnines know.
The brand rankings are not very useful, you consider the predicted reliabilities largely useless information, and the problem area dots don't mean anything anymore. That's nearly all the CR reliability data.
So, what's left and how are you going to use it?
I'm not saying whether you should or shouldn't use CR - just interested in hearing your thoughts.
One, only one, I know, opinion.
I may be wrong, just not uncertain. :surprise:
Well, I drive an LS daily because of a number of reasons. My 10 years of Lexus ownership have been much more pleasant than the time I spent as a Mercedes owner. It's not just that the LS hasn't annoyed my like my old Benzes though, a Corolla could do that. It's a brilliant highway cruiser, which is exactly what I use it for.
My Jags, on the other hand, I've bought because they are great looking performance machines, and I've always had a thing for Jag GT convertibles. I still think the XK120\150s are the most gorgeous cars ever created. Jaguar usually does pretty terribly in CR ratings, and indeed my XJ-S in particular was not very reliable, but that didn't stop me from buying more Jag convertibles.
Reliability is important to me for my daily driver, so CR information is still somewhat useful for that. For my weekend toys, I could care less what CR says.
"Nissan North America Announces June Sales...
GARDENA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 3, 2006--Nissan North America, Inc. (Nasdaq:NSANY) (NNA) reports sales of 75,154 units in June, which is a decrease of 19.0 percent from the prior year. While NNA's Nissan Division posted a decrease of 18.9 percent over last year, the Murano had its best ever June and the Frontier posted a strong sales increase versus one year ago. The Infiniti Division posted a sales decline of 20.0 percent versus the prior year.
M35/45: June 2006--2,012; June 2005--2,480
-18.9% drop in sales from June last year
But Year-to-Date sales are up 38% to 13,128 in 2006 from 9,506 in first six months of 2005.
A6 sales totals were 1,748 in June, 2006, up from 1,581 in June 2005
Increase of 10.5%
For first six months of 2006 sales of A6 were 9,384 as compared with 8,683 for first six months of 2005, an increase of 8.1%
You may not care.
You may find the following piece of information of low value (I must say, I think I don't find it all that valuable.)
You may find this information pushes you off the fence.
Here goes:
My 2005 A6 3.2 has been as close to "bullet proof" as any car I have ever had (truth in advertising: this is Audi #28 -- and we have had two Bimmers, two VW's and several Chrylser products).
I just get behind the wheel and everything seems to work and work well (also TIA, I did have four pushbutton starter buttons in the first four months -- of the 13 I have had the car.)
The car is tight, quiet, powerful (within its 255HP limitations, of course), able to sharply turn in with aplomb -- everything works and the performance has not deteriorated.
I have recently rented for 1000+ mile milk runs a Cadillac DTS and SRX (two long weekend jaunts.) Both were 2006's and were sooo loosey goosey, I could hardly believe it.
I don't think this has much to do with Audi's strong 2006 vs 2005 sales increase or with Infiniti's decline.
I have no clue what is going on here.
The quality of the cars (and this Audi in particular) continues to improve.
I am certain I would be still loving my M35X had I taken that path, don't get me wrong.
I am simply telling you, if you care, that the A6 3.2 that is sitting in my garage has been darn near flawless.
You Lexus owners probably take this for granted and may have done so for years -- thus has not always been the case with German cars.
My wife's BMW X3, too, has been fantastic.
Normally, at this time in a lease, I start to get the itch -- now, don't get me wrong if I win a free Audi S8, I will gladly surrender my A6. But, short of that, I am, at this point, not planning on doing anything other than taking this puppy to term.
Thanks Audi.
Some, I'd speculate, will read your post and focus on the four trips to dealer to replace push-button-start switch.
But if some other reader of your post has driven an Audi A6 and loves it, then it's your year of trouble-free and excited/delighted/engaged driving that they will care about when they read your post and they will be encouraged to get what they really want.
I went through a month of debating Audi A6 versus Infinity M35. I kept test-driving the various Audi models versus kept looking at and sitting in the Infinity (and reading all "the Germans have met their match" articles) after a couple of test-drives. To my own retrospective surprise and mild regret, I chose the M35 (despite the most enjoyable test-drive having been the Audi A6 S-Line and despite assurances from you and two friends who drive A6s everyday that there either were no problems or a minor one that was fixed). I can tell already that the tires will need to be switched for something better, especially for driving in rainy season, but also for better and more quiet ride -- the standard Goodyears on the M35 are a not-reported-by-CR $800-$1000 defect in my opinion. Also, qualifying as a defect, IMHO, is Nissan's failure to have done anything over the years to update their (otherwise wonderful) V6 for a better horse-power/mpg ratio. I'd expect either 300+ horsepower from a 2006 engine that drinks a gallon of gas every 17-18 miles, or, conversely, I'd expect 20-21 mpg from an engine that puts out "only" 275 hp (and depends heavily, I now realize, on a transmission that runs at relatively high rpm -- and low mpg -- in every gear, of which there are only five, to create acceleration).
When she first took delivery of her then new BMW X3 in early May, 2005, she was told "first service interval" is either 15,000 miles or when indicated here.
"Fifteen THOUSAND miles?!?" I heard her say. Now, truth in advertising, we enjoyed our multiple test drive visits to the Bimmer store. They have TWO Starbuck's gourmet coffee makers for pity's sake! The have a HUGE Internet cafe waiting area and a fridge full of bottled water, juice and sodas of all flavors. All the employees in the service department are wearing white coats and have great bedside manners. Every Saturday is free carwash day and the line for the wash is sometimes hundreds of yards long, yet people sit in line, queuing up for their hand car wash and vacuum -- and fresh pastry, fruit, coffee and so on.
What do they put in the water, I often wonder.
The quattro cafe at my Audi dealer is much the same kind of affair -- and both of these dealerships are known to have several annual closed store affairs, picnics, grill outs, tours and customer orientation soires.
Going to the dealership for us once every 10 or 15,000 miles would practically feel like punishment. We WANT to go more often.
See, I told you we're not typical.
Our current BMW "client advisor" was an intern when my wife got her new X3 -- he was a senior and he was a German studies student who we met up with in Munich while we were there on vacation and while he was on his one semester of overseas studies.
See, who actually vaca's with their car salesmen other than odd couples like us?
My four trips to the dealer for new starter switch buttons were, from the odd couple point of view, good excuses to catch up on the inventory, talk with the service manager, sales manager and sales people and take a few test drives just for the heck of it. About the only thing we haven't driven is a W12 A8L and RS4, in fact.
So, while the failure of the part (the switch) may be the focus for some, for us it has been (from a certain point of view) a treat masquerading as an unscheduled service visit.
I needed my tires rotated last week, so I dropped by and they gave me a 2006 A6 with 900 miles on it for the day while they balanced, rotated and washed/vacuumed my 2005 A6. When I returned I was given tire pressure and tire tread wear depth devices as a "parting gift."
Yesterday, our Bimmer sales guy called me to apologize for having sold the BMW 530xi STICK before I could take a long long test drive -- but he offered instead to have dinner with my wife and me at a local German pub and catch up on our trip to Munich and Oktoberfest last September.
We've gone to Ingolstadt six times for plant tours and we've been to the BMW museum in Munich more times than I can remember and are hoping to visit, soon, the BMW delivery center that was under construction in Munich last Sept.
Not typical.
Passionate about cars? -- uh, yea.
We enjoy the education and pleasures of visiting these dealerships and with our long term behavior as witness, we would make up reasons to visit the dealership (and have) now that service intervals and reliability are so long and so great.
Maybe if we were buying Cobalt's or Neon's (or whatever they have du jour) we wouldn't do this.
LPS cars -- in their native habitat -- are a little bit, for us, like enjoying dinner in a fine restaurant where we know the owner and server; a little like going in for that monthly massage with our long term favorite massage therapist we affectionately call, "Stuff" as she ends every sentence with "and stuff 'ike that."
Don't go by us.
Heck, in September we're going for the two day X3 driving affair at BMW's US facility -- somebody stop us! (just kidding.)
None of this should be interpreted to suggest we want our cars to require more maintenance or require more visits to the dealer for unscheduled needs. No one likes it when something breaks on one of these $50,000 wunderkins, especially us.
We just happen to enjoy these cars, their caretakers and sellers in their native habitats.
Odd couple, out.
Good points. For the record though, Acura's 3.5L is no better when it comes to fuel economy. I like the VQ's burly, somewhat crude nature, but the new Lexus 3.5L is definitely a much more efficient engine.
I've been "lurking" in this forum for quite awhile, as I'm becoming more and more obsessed with replacing my car with a larger, AWD vehicle. My preference rotates pretty regularly between the A6, 530xi, RL, GS300(350) and M35x, though my top choices right now are the BMW and Infiniti.
Here's a thought I wanted to share: Many say you "can't go wrong" with any of these cars, that they are all such great cars that you'll enjoy whichever you choose. I agree with that. But by the same token, I've also accepted that I'll experience some level of regret once in awhile too. If I go with the M35, I'm confident I'd see a 530, or an A6, etc. pass by on the road and think perhaps I'd rather have that other car, and vice versa. For me, accepting that simply lessens any anxiety of feeling like "you made the wrong decision." It just speaks to how great the cars are, and appreciating what they have to offer.
So, having said all that, I'd say most of the decision in this segment comes down to simple emotion. What gets you most excited? Right now, the M35x and 530xi are it for me. The Infiniti seems like a real smart choice - lower cost, LT reliability likely better, etc. And when you're shelling out $50k, those are decent reasons. But, practicality aside, the BMW simply appeals to me more - it feels more like "me," to put it simply.
And, the idea of not giving up the manual trannie certainly is appealing.
OK, sorry for the long post. I'm back to lurking :shades:
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
So, what about some other model that's 100%(!) less reliable? Well, that's 2 nits and the difference between it and the LS is therefore ..... a nit.
It's an helpful perspective to have as you use the CR, or any other, reliability data. Keeps you from being overcome by fear and panic, regardless of how much emphasis you place on reliability.
End of sermon.
MB E-class: 4,213 (+0.2%)
Cadillac STS: 2,565 (-31.0%)
Lexus GS: 2,191 (-33.9%)
Infiniti M35/45:
Audi A6: 1,748 (+10.5%)
Acura RL: 980 (-37.4%)
M
MB E-class: 4,213 (+0.2%)
Cadillac STS: 2,565 (-31.0%)
Lexus GS: 2,191 (-33.9%)
Infiniti M35/45: 2,012 (-18.9%)
Audi A6: 1,748 (+10.5%)
Acura RL: 980 (-37.4%)
The fact that Acura can't sell the RL even at $40K is a seriously problem, and makes it questionable as to whether a lower content\lower price RL will do anything to boost sales. How much lower can they go? The TL is $36K. A free RL with every tire rotation?
German LPS sales UP
Everyone else's LPS sales DOWN.
What I am about to write is not my opinion -- you may argue with me, and I will attempt to take a counter position, but this does not exactly represent my thoughts.
Two people talking:
"How's it going?"
"Pretty good, how about with you?"
"Things are OK, but being the in commercial lending industry at this time, bonuses are down a bit, so I had to settle when I got my new car?"
"Settle? Settle on what. . .?"
"Well I've always wanted a BMW and probably would've even considered an Audi, but I settled for one of those Infiniti M's."
"Wow, that's too bad. . ."
"Tell me about it -- but you know, the Infiniti is a great car, well made, powerful and all the toys -- you should hear the sound system, it makes my home system sound tinny."
"Gee, sorry you couldn't get your Bimmer."
"Yea, me too -- next time."
This, of course is a made up conversation, but it is based on reality -- not exactly a widespread reality, since I can't claim to have heard this kind of conversation more than a couple of times. . . .
But, here in River City, "everyone" wants a Bimmer -- or so it seems.
When a person gets a new Lexus or Cadillac or Infiniti or Acura, the responses are always something "is that so" or "well I'll be darned, how do you like it."
If the person gets a new Bimmer, it is somehow like they were just misted with pheromones.
Passats may have the lowest ego emotions (or so says their commercials), but "everyone" lusts for the blue propeller on the hood.
The Americans and the Japanese cars are apparently the ones "we" settle on -- when we "can't get" (for whatever reason) a German model, usually a BMW, Mercedes or Audi (a distant third, there, to be sure, in this country.)
Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player. :surprise:
In the LPS class, thats probably true. In the entry level class, I'm not so sure. The leaders are the TL and G35, and there are cheaper BMWs and Audis available. If German badge lust were everything, I think a lot more people would be buying stripper 325is and A4 2.0Ts, rather than "settling" on TLs and Gs.