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Comments
Can you shed any light from experiences you might have had?
Regards,
OW
And last, has anyone tried the new auto sport transmission?
Is there any difference besides the addition paddle shifters? The salesman said that it was a completely new transmission and said it was fantastic.
Thanks
Speed rating:
Q 099 mph max
R 106 mph max
S 112 mph max
T 118 mph max
H 130 mph max
V 149 mph max
Z Generic for greater than 149
W (or ZW) at least 168 mph
Y (or ZY) at least 186 mph
Generally speaking, the higher the top speed of the tire, the rougher it will ride and the better it will corner.
Generally speaking, All-Season tires occupy the "H" speed rating and down, while the Summer performance tires occupy the "V" speed rating and above (usually above). Are there All-Season tires with speed ratings higher than "H"? Yes, even some winter tires. Are there Summer performance tires lower than "V"? Hmmm, can't say that I've seen one in recent memory but I suppose it's possible.
In answer to your question, it seems that you are looking for a tire that TireRack.com calls "High Performance All-Season". Basically those are "V" rated (and above) All-Season tires that have good grip, reasonable winter performance for areas with occasional snow, have a longer tread life than dedicated summer tires and are kind of the ultimate in compromise tires. Me personally, I'm much happier with two sets of wheels and tires, one set for mid spring through mid fall (dedicated Summer tires), and the second set for the rest of the year (dedicated Winter tires).
I hope this helped a little.
Best Regards,
Shipo
An all-season tire will have a tread compound that does not get super hard in the cold - it retains some of the flexibility and the tread design has more sipes so it can grip on snow or ice.
A snow tire has rubber that doesn't work very well as the temperature rises, so they should not be used in the summer. They tend to be, but aren't necessarily, noisier than summer tires.
An all-season tire is a compromise in all seasons...not a great snow tire, not a great handling tire.
There will be a lot of generalizing here, because different brands and even individual models of the same type of tires can be quite difference in terms of noise, ride, and handling. Generally speaking however, dedicated snow tires are the noisiest and roughest. There are a few that can handle dry roads reasonably well, like Blizzaks, Arctic Alpins, and Dunlop Winter Sports.
If your car needs a W (168mph) or Y (186mph) rated tire, you have to get the highest performance summer only tires, like Goodyear Eagle F1s or Pilot Sport PS2s. There are now V rated Snow tires and Z rated A/S tires, but neither is capable of the W category. Summer tires are made for hot, dry days. They can really scream on certain highway textures, but other than that I don't think they are generally noisier or rougher riding than a typical A\S. Wet performance depends on the brand and model, but using them in cold wet, snow, or ice is not a good idea. Treadwear is short, as low as 140, and 280 is about as high as it goes.
A/S tires have come quite a long way in the last few years. Unfortunately most cars that come with A/S tires typically come with crap like Michelin MXVs, but there are some very good choices in the "ultra high-performance all-season" category, like the Potenza AS Pole Position and Pilot Sport A/S. I used to do the summer\winter tire swap game on my LS430, but I got tired of it. I'm using the Bridgestones now, and they are very quiet, have great performance in the dry and the wet, turn in response is *almost* as good as the best summer tires, and no UHP summer tire can touch their 400 treadwear rating. I won't use the LS if there's more than a minimal amount of snow and slush anyway, so the Potenza's snow abilities are good enough to get the job done, and it means I don't have to put up with the noise and the crappy handling for every day that it doesn't snow, which has been 99% of the days in the last few years in southern PA
Some have said, All Seasons means "no seasons."
Well, here is a thought about what might work well, year round on the 535xi: a V rated, Grand Touring (A/S) designated tire of the OEM size (or possibly "plus zero" size.)
Such tires are marketed and they will do pretty well year round -- if your area has "moderate" snow. They will still be able to be bested by dedicated rubber, but changing tires and/or wheels twice a year is jus' un'merican.
Check the TireRack and check the brand Continental as they probably have a size appropriate to the BMW in question.
Some have said, All Seasons means "no seasons."
I wouldn't put the Potenza AS Pole Positions on my Jag, but I wouldn't ever use the Jag with any snow on the ground anyway. On a car like the 535xi though, I would think that the best UHP A/S tires like the Potenza, Pilot Sport, PZero, or Eagle F1 A/S would provide a good balance between great overall wet\dry\noise performance and good enough snow abilities.
Others with more knowledge and experience than I have already responded!
FWIW, my 535Xi came with Goodyear RS-A, 225/50-17, all season tires with a W speed rating.
Thanks
Bruce
BMW 5-Series 4,055
Lexus GS 1,668
Infiniti M 1,380
Audi A6 1,126
Acura RL 357
Accura has been sent a message.
Regards,
OW
Whenever Americans think of LPS they generally mean German. During every month in the past two and half years, the MB and BMW have always been the top two and by a wide margin. Not sure that the Japanese brands (no matter how good) will ever touch the MB and BMW in this segment. The Acura has always had low sales but I believe this month was an all-time low.
BMW 5-Series 37,894
MB E-Class 34,184
Lexus GS 17,090
Infiniti M 16,413
Audi A6 8,762
Acura RL 4,618
Acura sells more than 5,000 MDXs every month!
Did those September figures include the updated '08 M? If not, it could just be that people were holding off for the new version. The M has beaten the GS in sales several times, but I think the GS has been ahead by a small margin the majority of the time. In September everybody was way down including Lexus, while MB and BMW were up. It is amazing that despite the fact that the E is the oldest car in the segment and about to be replaced, it still dominates the class. The Germans (except for Audi) still seem to have a lock on the mid-lux performance category. Not so much in the entry-lux category, and of course the LS outsells both the S and 7.
Didn't think about that cause but makes sense. I bought my M back in April, 2005 and took it in for service last week and while I was waiting walked around the lot and didn't see any of the 2008 M's yet. I was curious to see if the new M and new G had almost identical fronts - might be even harder to tell them apart. I believe Infiniti will be the first LPS to have all wheel drive on their V-8.
The current issue of Consumer Reports again picked the M as the best LPS - not that this will have any influence on sales.
I own an Acura RL and have already noticed that the Accord looks even more like the Acura now. It is very disappointing and I will be selling my Acura. I am also waiting for the 2008 M45x to come out.
Keep in mind that there just may be people waiting on the 08 GS as well!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The alloys I wish to fit to my car are 8 1/4 Jx17 H2 ET 34, are fitted with Dunlop 9000 tyres 235/45 ZR 17.
Please could you tell me if this is OK to put on my 1997 E230 Mercedes saloon(210).
The handbook says that suitable wheel & Tyres "light alloy wheel" is these cobinations 235/45 R17 93w tyre & the alloy 8 Jx 17 H2 ET37.
Compared to the alloys I wish to fit, would the above handbook stated ones be OK on my car?? If so what differences in cars drive should be expected?
Thank you very much
Except for the GS460, everything else about the '08 GS is a carryover, so I don't see why people would be holding out for the new one, other than the few hundred that buy the V8. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the updated M is enough to push it over the top.
When you go to a bigger wheel/tire, the ride generally gets worse but the handling can improve.
A good place to investigate tire/wheel combinations, even if you can't buy them there, is www.tirerack.com. What you are interested in is +2 sizing, if you have 15" on there now.
Pure speculation and perhaps wishful thinking on your part. If someone wants to buy an M, I am sure they can find a dealer.
The M is edgier than the GS but IMO it is not as refined, its styling is dated, and it just doesn't look as good. I think that probably these are the real reasons it is being outsold by the GS.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Perhaps there may be some truth to that. Infiniti has more than I thought, 165 compared to 202 for Lexus according to AutoDealerBase.
I like the M's aggressiveness. If I wanted a sedan with a quiet, cushy, and dull ride I'd buy an LS, not a GS. The two issues I had with the M's looks were the orange gauges and the too big taillights, both fixed for '08. I'm also happy to see Infiniti offering the sport package on the AWD cars. Not a fake one like BMW that's just seats and wheels - the same equipment that the RWD cars get. Now if only they'd bring over that Piano black trim from Japan...
I would like something that is fun to drive, comfortable, has navigation and great audio, and is safe in the winter. I am leaning towards an all wheel drive. So far I have test driven a BMW 535xi (loved driving it but didn't have time to play with the idrive) and the Lexus GS350 awd (which have cool gadgets but seemed a bit cramped and didn't put a smile on my face while driving it like the BMW did). The M and G Infiniti's don't do much for me looks wise and the gas mileage is pretty bad for a car that I plan on keeping long term. I have never been big on Audi or MB because of reliability issues.
Anyway, it looks like I will probably be deciding between the BMW 535xi and the Lexus 350awd but am still open to suggestions. I do prefer the BMW, but it is quite a bit more money (the 535xi is really pushing my budget) and I am a bit worried about the cost of repairs after the warranty runs out. I have read all the bad reviews about BMW's idrive but I am good on the computer so I don't know if that would be an issue. I like the comfort, gadgets, and long term reliability (perceived?) of the Lexus. The Lexus dealer was much more aggressive and I have received 5 phone calls from them since my test drive, which is a bit much. I would think that I could get a better deal on the GS since they seem desperate to make sales.
Sorry about the long post. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
I selected the Acura RL. It is an amazing value and selling 8-9K below sticker. Many do not like the subtle style and many dismiss it for not having a V8 or 6 speed tranny option. It is not as large as the Infinity but wider and larger trunk (still smallish) than the Lexus. It seemed on par with the BMW dimensions, but again, the BMW driving dynamics are it's signature.
But the Acura NAVI was exceptional and the content a tremendous value. Content any of these models (AWD, V6 Auto) similarly and the Acura is thousands lower in sticker and certainly a bargain in negotiated price. It comes only in 3 trim levels, and the Tech Package is the most common.
Acura's brand may not have the luxury cache of the others, but the Honda reliability, value content, Japanese assembly, amazing SHAWD system, Ultra Low Emmisions and high safety ratings made it a very smart choice (if not the most passionate).
The RL is a sleeper, and sales are low, but I have no regrets on my choice and I see this as not only a long term ownership experience, but somewhat exclusive as so few are on the road. The RL typifies Honda's conservative, well engineered approach. It may not be the best of any one thing, but the total package is very well balanced and the harmony this car exudes may not grab attention, but it sure grows on you and is very easy to live with.
You may want to give the Acura RL consideration. A Tech Package RL @ 42K out the door may be worth your consideration in the AWD segment.
...for a reason.
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr081607.html
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Honestly, I think what you are suggesting is prescription for disaster. The average 1990 200K mile BMW 5 may still start when you turn the key, but today's 5 is about a million times more complex than its 17 year old counterpart. Nobody is going to give you an extended warranty for that long.
Reliability for the Acura RL has improved from the lousy '05 and '06 years, but all of those electronics are still going to have problems eventually. On top of that, the RL is really a mediocre car. I can't think of a single thing it does better than any other car in the segment. 17 years with one would amount to torture. Sure its cheap, but the TL is cheaper - and better. You mentioned fuel economy as a sticking point, the RL's FE is no better than the Infiniti's.
Reliability for the AWD GS350 is so bad that it lost its recommended rating from CR, thanks to multiple below average scores. Hell has frozen over, a new Lexus has scored far worse in CR than both BMW and Audi. The GS is the worst new Lexus in the company's history, this is a serious black spot on their record.
If I had to be stuck with one of the current crop of LPS, my choice would be an '08 M45x. It's great fun to drive, and has best in class reliability. My suggestion though, is to buy a slightly used CPO car. Get the BMW if you like it. Drive it until the CPO warranty runs out, and then get rid of it. Is the buying experience so horrible that you want to be stuck with a 200K car that constantly needs repairs costing far more than its even worth?
The cheaper way is to buy and sell in 3-4 years but considering the resales value, it's more or less risky depending on, well, the dependability and desirability at the time of resale.
Look at what is selling now in your target vehicle class. IMHO, the choices at the top of this category are the Merc E, BMW 5, and the M's from Infinity. These should return at the upper end of value after you decide to sell because of the higher demand and dependability. This could change but it should be a good guide unless you wait 17 years to resell!
Regards,
OW
I wouldn't bet against Acura reliability, for electronics or anything else. I have a 16 year old Legend which in its entire lifetime the check engine light came on once...only once....(and promptly reset itself after I restarted the car). The car is still a joy to drive.
I also can't think of a single thing it does better than any other car in the segment. It is just very good at everything it does, making it a great car to drive and own.
As far as the buying experience being so horrible, it really depends on the dealer/salesperson. I just don't enjoy the experience like I used to. Researching, test driving, and then trying to get the best price is very time consuming and can be quite frustrating.
I have waited 3+ years to buy a new LPS and and am not all that thrilled with the choices. I did find the Lexus GS350 to be disappointing and have read the CR review, which is grim considering the Lexus reputation. You might be right about Hell freezing over. The GS350 was going to be my fall back car if I couldn't find something more fun to drive. I don't know how soon Lexus can fix the problems the GS has. It is a shame that my 2002 GS got rear ended a few years ago (17k damage and it was never the same) or I would still be driving it and not going through this right now.
I am not big on leasing since I can't write it off at all. I know that a car isn't a very good investment. At this point the idea of buying a nice/fun car, paying it off, and not having car payments for awhile is very appealing to me. If I need to sell it in 3-4 years then I am back where I started. The problem is that there is no perfect car, most people are partial to the brand they are driving, and everyone has different taste in vehicles, which can make it difficult to find useful reviews. The luck of the draw enters into it also. It is possible to get a car that will run forever or a lemon no matter what car you choose. Some brands and models improve the odds of getting a "good" one more than others...
The RL is decent enough but not all that fun to drive.
The Infinitis gas mileage is not great or even good through the entire lineup.
I have dropped Lexus, I was checking out the ES, and the reliability is very disappointing and they haven’t found fixes for the various problems despite their attempts.
After all of this, the E Class 320 Blue Tec. Very good gas mileage (diesel), very good power for passing, not too noisy, nice riding, maybe even a little sporty very comfortable front and rear seats. Reliability seems to be getting better. Pricey though.
I am reading this forum to find a suitable CPO, and then try to convince my wife that it would be a good idea.
I too, am looking for a vehicle that would be good for the long run, 8 to 10 years of ownership.
...my wife and I live in Taxachusetts
I am getting the feeling that cars are being built as disposables these days. I don't know what happened to Lexus's reliability other than they realized they make a lot more money servicing them than selling them.
Also the GS hybrid was rated as the most reliable car of all in this group! Go figure!
The RL was also rated very high in reliability.
Dealerships can vary widely by city but my experience has been that Lexus is tops with Acura not far behind. Infinity I would have to rate poor.
All new cars are a bad investment. A good late model CPO from Lexus would be better. Maybe the LS? You save a ton on depreciation, get virtually a new car warranty and they still treat you like a king.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Out of curiosity, do you have any personal experience with Infiniti (not Infinity)?
As far as dealers, yes, I have visited the Infiniti store here a few times while shopping and I always seem to get someone who knows very little about the cars, etc. or someone who just insists that you buy the car NOW and puts on the hard sell.
Remember that this is just my experience and things like this are very subjective.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The RL is a very flexible vehicle. You can drive it smoothly for most driving and you can toss it in the twisties with the SHAWD. The grip is amazing, never a tire squeal. The car has a smoothness and relaxed feeling that many who desire performance do not appreciate. I would call the RL a sporty touring lux-tech sedan. It is stable, safe, solid, wonderfully built, and confident when I want to get on it.
Only you can make your decision. The RL has grown on me in the last year that I am more excited driving it now than I was when I traded my 05TL for it. The TL was edgey, but not refined and US assembly was not on par with the RL. I wanted a more sophisticated, refined ride.
If you require the best of any one thing, the RL may not suit your needs as it is simply great at many things. And yes, it is a low seller, and underappreciated, but you should get what you want. I, personally have no less enjoyment of this car because it does not meet the standards of others or the masses (most of who paid much more for a not much more scoot.
I only chimed in to offer my opinion as we shared similar attributes for a new car (from your original post).
Many here do not appreciate the RL, which is fine (the didn't write the check), but don't decide for what others want, get what you want. There are enough sour grapes around here to open a vineyard.
Whatever you get, I hope it pleases you.
If it is a BMW, you can even "buy" the required maintenance from BMW that will extend the 50,000 maintenace. You will have yourself a vehicle that will be somewhat lower in initial cost and will have ALL costs for perhaps 100,000 be -- to you, out of pocket, that is -- $0. This "bought and paid for" insurance does not increase the reliability nor decrease the desirability of such a car.
This approach simply mitigates your monetary expenses.
Our BMW and Audi experience would tend to trak with your expectations: these cars (and I am certain not ONLY these cars) are breathtakingly expensive to maintain and repair outside of the mfgr's programs.
But, with all due respect to the reputation of some of the other cars (those, perhaps from Japan), they too are expensive to maintain and repair -- despite some anecdotal evidence. CR currently has downgraded the Lexus G's, in fact. Even the Audi A6 retains a "recommended" status, as if that means much (CR is great at picking dishwashers however.)
The point is, the LPS class of cars discussed and disected daily here are probably more alike than they are different. Each brings personality traits to the party -- and you have to decide which ones suit you best.
The Lexus, TO ME, is the one I would pay the least amount for -- for it is too serene in the performance department. The Infiniti is the Japanese BMW and the Acura is the Japanese Audi (sorta, and only sorta since it is, fundamentally a FWD car, the FWD bias is so strong, whereas the Audi, even at present is a 50-50 biased ride.)
The Cadillac, with that new V6 DI is, presently, heavily discounted and already comes with a 100,000 powertrain warranty -- and the Acura, as noted, has received very favorable reviews despite lackluster sales (it looks like a plump Accord to many of us.)
Perhaps the Cadillac is worth a harder look, for value alone -- and it can be equipped with both technology/performance bits and AWD.
Perhaps, despite its Accord leanings, the Acura RL also is worthy of your consideration for the value prop alone.
If money were not in one's way, it is hard to resist the 535x. But for performance, luxury and fun an A6 4.2 SLine if one can be found, would be a great ride -- and about 15 minutes per year can also be a great value.
Bang for the buck -- ???? Well, again the new CTS 3.6DI AWD with the FE2 suspension and the lux package is "almost a BMW 5 series" -- at least if you evaluate cars largely by their wheelbase and width.