Luxury Performance Sedans

erickpl · December 2008

We still have our 05 A6 and it has been okay... first one was totalled. But this one has had issues with faulty trunk latch sensors, MMI got soaked by Coke, and the front end has the persistent grinding type noise when turning at low speeds. My wife is keeping it until she graduates college, then will consider something else. As much as she loves the Audi designs, the little nits with the electricals keep her from wanting another Audi OR VW.

-Paul

lexusguy · December 2008

the little nits with the electricals keep her from wanting another Audi OR VW.

The '05 A6 had a few issues, but the model has really improved and is now among the top in class. My S6 hasn't had any issues as of yet, and despite the Q5 being a brand new model, it's so much better than anything else in that class right now that I'm willing to take the risk.

I would highly recommend taking a look at the M35x though as an A6 alternative. It's almost as much fun to drive as the 5 series, and is the most reliable car in the mid-lux class.

keithhr1 · December 2008

I just picked up my new to me 2006 M35 last week after comparing some Lexus LS430 models. I chose the M35 based on driving issues and I am glad that I made that choice. The drive and interior appearance of this car is amazing, Lots of cool electronic options without appearing as though they were trying to impress anyone. I feel like the car was designed with me in mind personally. I am enjoying this car immensely and look forward to finding out even more . I believe that Infiniti is a really well kept secret with much of the driving public not brand aware. I would have had to put myself in that category, because it seems as though I kind of stumbled into finding this car and everyone else here knows what happens when you see the car that you really want. The Lexus is a beautiful car, very smooth, but maybe a bit too smooth and refined to have any real driving experience. The Lexus does make one feel rather princely though. I guess people on this forum do share a feeling of camaraderie since they have all come to the same conclusion.

Karen_S · December 2008

A reporter from a large business magazine would like to speak with consumers who have held off purchasing a luxury vehicle because of the economic uncertainty or because youre worried about the image a luxury car presents right now. If youve held off purchasing a luxury car, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Wednesday, December 10.

lexusguy · December 2008

I just picked up my new to me 2006 M35 last week after comparing some Lexus LS430 models.

Congrats on the new ride. While the G35 got the ball rolling, the '06 M put Infiniti on the map, taking down the 5 series in several high profile comparison tests. It's also (as I'm sure you've discovered) a great used by because the depreciation is steep and its so reliable. The next generation M37 and M50 will be extremely formidable, and should be keeping the Germans up at night.

houdini1 · December 2008

Congrats on the new ride and welcome to the forum. I went thru the same decision making process recently but I decided on an 06 LS 430. The M is a great car also and it all just depends on personal preference.

Enjoy and keep us posted.

keithhr1 · December 2008

I certainly understand choosing the LS430 because it was absolute luxury and it made me feel like my position in life had somehow been elevated.It was the epitome of a luxury ride, if only I could afford both cars, I would own both. The big V8 in the Lexsus is formidable and probably the finest luxury car in the world for the money. The M35 presents a more cocooned intimate ride with the large center console separating the front seat occupants. Congrats on your LS430 purchase as well

walt18 · December 2008

I just test drove a 2009 genesis 4.6 tuesday and man that is a very nice ride from hyundai. One may think it is a cheap car but it really is not. The ride was very smooth and very quiet, the transmission shifts so quickly from first to 2nd gear but is smooth. I had my gas sipper in for service and I decided since I was going to be there for a minute why not test drive it. Lots of power I punched it with the esc switch on and WOW!!! that baby move out so fast I was expecting it to be a little slow do to it weight but nah they got it right. I turned the esc (traction control) off and punch it again and it got to 70 in 6.5 seconds,it was so quick that I got light headed.I think that it is under rated in the torque area 333lb ft.tq 375hp more like 350lbs ft.tq. Growing up driving trans am, camaro's and vettes this car has power close to them but it is not rated there you have to drive it for yourself to believe it the numbers on paper are a little off in the torque department for sure. It has at least 350lb ft.

nebraskaguy · December 2008

I just test drove a 2009 genesis 4.6 tuesday and man that is a very nice ride from hyundai.

I agree with you. I test drove this car several weeks ago and was very impressed - especially for the price of about $42,000. My only disappointment with it is there is no all-wheel drive option.

walt18 · December 2008

I would give them till the 2010 model for them to make an all-wheel drive model i'm pretty sure they are working on it now.

d5a · December 2008

Purchased a new 2008 Mercedes R class on Oct 21'st of this year. The day after i bought the car i noticed a ding in the front fender and many scratches all over the car. Called the dealer who informed me that they would take care of it at the time I came in for its 1,000 mile service. This being a mercedes I trusted them and figured all would be taken care of. As the days went on I noticed the hood had dents in it. As I was walking up to the car from the front I noticed dents all over the hood of the car. At this point I called the dealer, they said again they would take care of it at time of service. I told them I would be bringing it in asap not waiting for service. They agreed and the date was set. Dropped the car off on day of service and figured they would get a dent repair guy to look at it. that afternoon I get a call from the sales manager now stating that they see no dents what so ever. I jumped in the car drove to the dealership and pointed out all the defects. Sales manager told me it was all orange peal. BULL! So any ways he then changed his tone and said they will fix everything. I left and a day went past and nothing so on the second day I called to ask what was happening to my car. They informed me that they had found an issue with the sunroof and a part was missing that was on back order. We are talking a new mercedes here with only a few hundred miles and I had never even used the sunroof due to cold weather at this point. So long story short mercedes dealer had my new car for two weeks waiting on a part for the sun roof. At this point I had faith that they during this time were fixing all the dents and scratches on the car. Finally I got a call after two weeks saying my car could be picked up. Went to get it only to find nothing had been done to any of the dents or scratches and they had damaged the hood of the car. I now have a dent sticking out of the hood. Some way they have pulled the metal out of the hood as if someone had closed the hood on the car and left something under it. Needless to say I was pissed. The cars not even a month old. At this point the service manager said they were sorry and called in the general manager who went on to say how its not the dealer fault and they see no damage to the car and that any damage on the car has been due to my fault. I informed him that we had emails to the sales man stating the issues she then went on to say its still not there fault. I left, came home called the ower of the dealership who offered a meeting with me. Drove back up a fourth time to meet with him only to have him look at the car and say he would be in touch in a few days. Few days went past and nothing. I repeated called never to get a call back. I then contacted MBUSA who informed me that it had to be delt with at a dealer level. Can you believe this? So I emailed everyone I could at MBUSA Corporate, Daimler Corporate and the dealership stating the issues and they way I have been treated. At that point I did get a call back from Corp (MBUSA) stating they would open a case file to have the car bought back. I felt relieved. This was three weeks ago. During that time MBUSA has told me we need to meet with the east coast regional manager. So I set up a meeting with him. During my time waiting for the meeting day to come I informed him that our gaol is to have mb buy the car back or replace it with a new car. I also informed him that I had to spent 200 to have a few dents takin out already and that the hood now has to be fully repainted at the tune of 850 dollars and there is still two other hail dents that need to be fixed for another 200 dollars. So I'm looking at 1200 out of pocket on body work on a new car. And the dealer saw nothing? Regional manager called today to inform me that they dont see reason for a meeting and that the dealer now makes the call on replacement cars. I'm getting the run around!!!!!!!!!!! I have no clue now what to do. They are trying to wear me down so that I go away. MBUSA has been no help at all. I now have a 60,000 mercedes with hail damage which they deny but I found out it sat on the lot during two hail storms over the summer and I also have a car that has been damaged by the dealer costing me to have to get the hood repainted on a new car meaning it wont have the facotroy paint on it and it may never match. On top of that resale will take a nose dive due to the painted hood making it look as if he may have been in an accident at some point. Any ideas on how I can get a replacement car or get mercedes to buy this car back from me? I will never buy another mercedes again. I have always had BMW's which I loved but we needed a bigger car then what BMW had to offer and I regret it 100% Any advise would be great.

Thanks!

kgary · December 2008

I am a little confused by your recent post and your earlier post from October. In your October post you wrote:

Yes got them down to 36,200 then add tax and tags. its an 08, new last one. Black on Black (not what i would have picked but hey) awd, R350 gas with some options. pk1, heated seats, sunroof, ipod and a few other things.

In your recent post you wrote:

I now have a 60,000 mercedes

What was the $24,000 discount for? In your recent post you state that you noticed that the vehicle was dinged and scratched as soon as you got home from the dealer. I can't help but wonder how you missed the damage at the time you picked up the vehicle and that perhaps you were able to get a $24,000 discount because of this damage.

jimbres · December 2008

Please break up long posts into paragraphs. Otherwise, they are hard to read.

tayl0rd · December 2008

And as such get passed right over by most readers.

dhamilton · December 2008

smells in suburbia.

bw45sport · December 2008

I wish you the best of luck....you'll need it.

I was a Benz driver for 20 years. I purchased a 2003 SL500 and was one of the unlucky ones (my research indicated that upwards of 40% of us were unlucky) who had MAJOR electrical problems.

At one point during my discussions with MB they indicated they would buy back the car.....didn't happen.

The games continued until my lease was up. MBUSA said I had to deal with the dealer. The dealer said MBUSA wasn't cooperative with them. Regional MB personnel wouldn't speak directly to me but said I had to speak to them through the dealership. The bottom line was that they didn't care if they were losing a 20 year exclusive customer.

The complicating factor in my case was that I was purchasing a car that had already been bought back. Debate over the application of Nebraska Lemon Law caused me to not sue but I'm still regretting my decision not to. The arrogance and total lack of concern that MB showed to a committed customer was appalling.

To give you an idea of the level of problems that I experienced, I had my service writer calculate what repairs to my car would have been if not covered by warranty. The total for the first six months I had the car was over $20,000. This was for a car that had 3,800 miles on it.

As I said, good luck with your fight. Mercedes deserves every bad rap they have received in the last 10 years.

d5a · December 2008

I was a BMW driver for 15 years and loved them. Thought Mercedes was on the same level if not higher then BMW. Boy was I wrong!!!!!! My car has 1,600 miles on it and to date the hood needs to be repainted due to the dealer damage. The passenger door does not line up correctly with the body and I have a bill for hail damage that the dealer denies. Also it RATTLES!!! It sounds like junk. everything from the doors to he dash makes noise. I haven't seen this poor a build since GM in the 80's. Oh and my head liner has grease all over it from back to front due to a sunroof issue and I cant get the stains out.

Have connected MBUSA and got the same story you got. The dealer needs to handle it. Then was told by MB they would replace the car only then have them say no. Not one person at MB or the dealer level has been helpful.

I know that I will never buy a mercedes again. As soon as I can I want to trade this thing in for another BMW. Even with a Lawyer now involved I feel nothing will happen. MB seems to be to good at producing junk selling to costumers then walking away from it all laughing at us while they take our money.

lexusguy · December 2008

I was a Benz driver for 20 years. I purchased a 2003 SL500 and was one of the unlucky ones (my research indicated that upwards of 40% of us were unlucky) who had MAJOR electrical problems.

I've seen more lemon law buyback '03-'05 SLs on eBay than any other car I can remember. Sometimes there were upwards of 10 or 15 sitting there. If your roof actually opened and closed on a regular basis, consider yourself fortunate.

fonefixer · December 2008

I was an Audi driver for almost 7 years. If not for the extended warranty purchased at time of sale for $2300.00, the car would have bankrupted me over cost of repairs. Purchased an A6 2.7T new in 2000 for $42,200 and sold in 2006 w/ 100,000 miles for $11,500 and lucky to get that price. These are cars that should be leased for 3 years and then returned just as the warranty runs out. Very fortunate to find an independent shop that knows these cars and would accept the numerous extended warranty claims. The dealer became too hard to deal with towards the end of the factory 3 year warranty. Don't buy a car anymore.....buy the dealer. I don't mind paying retail if the service dept. follows through. Thought owning an Audi might make the customer somewhat special....in the end it just makes the customer broke.

markcincinnati · December 2008

This is entirely unreadable.

Please repost with paragraphs and SOME white space.

pat · December 2008

While you make an excellent point in terms of readability, the member has posted it enough in enough other forums that it really doesn't need to be posted anymore.

ghstudio · December 2008

unfortunate story...but the net of this is that you should always pick up a car on a sunny day and take the time to look it over carefully. If you find any problems, have the dealer write them down on his service ticket and have him write down that these problems were there when you picked up the car and would be fixed at no charge to you....and have the sales manager sign it.

Many years ago, I bought a BMW 320 with light color seats. When I arrived to pick up the car, the seats were filthy....it was obviously a demo car or something else. I refused to take the car. Had I taken the car, they never would have fixed it....it would have been my fault.

Hate to say it...but it's always buyer beware. No matter what the sales droid says, you need to have something in writing signed by a manager (service or sales) if you find anything wrong.

sounds like you are going to have an endless problem with Mercedes. I'm sure there are some dealers that would help, but there are always good and bad dealers. Sounds like you have one of the louses.

cdnpinhead · December 2008

This is entirely unreadable.

I certainly agree, Mark, and said as much in another board.

Since this is your most recent post, and they've become much rarer of late, I'll take this opportunity to wish another long-timer a happy holiday season.

Hope you're enjoying your A4.

kgary · December 2008

Happy Holidays to all.

Kevin

revras · December 2008

I will be leasing a E350 before the end of the year. The dealer is discounting the sport package equipped models( no charge option) . I am curious bout the differences in comfort, handling, tire wear and other opinions on the Sport option package vs standard luxury package. I like the looks but dont want to sacrifice the ride quality and am curious how much it is affected. Thanks

carnaught · December 2008

Just got off my '07 E350 Sport lease. Overall I was satisfied (except for an abysmal dealer). The Sport model has the dual chrome exhausts, different wheels and black wood interior appointments with white gauges The tire treads tend to wear out earlier and are more costly & noisy than the non-sport tires. The ride is definitely harder but more fun to drive, especially for spirited driving in comparison to the non-sport. It is more fun to drive than be the passenger.

In summary: I could have done without the black wood on the interior. Exterior-wise, it is much nicer looking than the non-sport. Other than minor issues, I would get the Sport again. Being a no charge option, it is a "no brainer" IMHO.

desert_rat · December 2008

There are too many posts in these forums about lousy Mercedes dealers. I wonder if Daimler-Benz doesn't care?

mdboater · January 2009

I have put off posting this message for 72,000 miles. Finally, I think I know this car. I bought the 2006 M35X based on the reviews and my first experiences. After 72K+ miles I feel I am well versed on the vehicle. The plus: It has more gizmos and gadget then you could ever use. Secondly, I have never had a major repair. The build quality is excellent. The minus: The ride

IHO, the ride is the key factor on a car. I have changed tires twice, been to Infiniti several times, and found that, in short, the ride of the M35X is sub-par. A vehicle of this price should be fun and safe. This car is fun but hardly safe. I have "changed lanes" by running over pot holes more then once. I commute 125 miles daily and have given this vehicle a workout. It has a great deal of difficulty traveling a straight line.

I feel bad posting this, however, I do not want others to face a similar experience. I am off to Lexus or BMW....a better bet.

draz2 · January 2009

My lease on my Lexus ES350 is up in June and I'm beginning to look around. I like the specs on the M35x as I want an awd vehicle this time around. But the 1st salesperson I spoke to said the lease now would be about $899/month for that car with nav. Hell, I can get into a M-B E350 4matic with nav for about $725/month.

What gives? Can I do better than this $899 price on the M35x? And please don't hit me with a bunch of fancy numbers and jargon like "money factor," etc. as all I care about is the bottom line.....what I need to pay each month.

Thanks for any help/advice you guys can offer.

dhamilton · January 2009

about "fancy jargon" then be content to be uneducated about the nuances of leasing. There is no free lunch, do your research.

Hint1. Your in the wrong thread, try the Infiniti lease questions one.

The rest you must do for yourself grasshopper!

lexusguy · January 2009

But the 1st salesperson I spoke to said the lease now would be about $899/month for that car with nav. Hell, I can get into a M-B E350 4matic with nav for about $725/month.

I'm sure you can do better than $899. Talk to the posters in the M35 prices paid forum, and talk to Mercedes, Audi, BMW, anyone else you might be interested in. If the Infiniti is still your first choice, go back to them and let them know what the competition is offering.

draz2 · January 2009

Thanks so much for the condescending, patronizing response.

I hope someone else is just as helpful when you need a hand.

tayl0rd · January 2009

There are 20K/yr leases out there??:surprise: Learn something new everyday! For that kind of mileage, you shouldn't be surprised about the $899/mo payment. The interest rate is probably astronomical. You probably could actually purchase it for about the same payment; possibly w/ no money down.

sanjaysdca · January 2009

tayl0rd is right

a 42K loan at 10.3% for 5 years will cost you 899/month
a 45K loan at 7.37% for 5 years will cost you 899/month

You are better of doing some work...
Self teaching is an amazing experience... try it.

Also this is what (can) happen if you ask for help on internet
ENJOY!!

link title

http://willyyilly.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-you-should-never-ask-help-from.html

dhamilton · January 2009

but you are going to get yourself nowhere with your current mindset.

You have the cart so far past the horse that it's impossible to answer your questions.

We are helping you by encouraging you to dig deeper. Don't be in a hurry, the answers will come. The journey is the best part.

markcincinnati · January 2009

Due to a looonnnggg lead time, I was forced to keep my A6 for, hmm 41 months, 5 months beyond the contract term. By the time I turned it in it had gone faithfully for about 60,000 miles. Three sets of tires and the only real issue with it was the first few months where every month I had to have the pushbutton start replaced.

Actually when I drove in to pick up the shiny new (Ibis white) B8 A4, I had a momentary pang of regret, "what have I done? I love this A6, it has been a joy to drive and at this moment it, apparently, looks pretty much as it did the day I got it and the body style of the 2008 is identical. Why not just keep the thing?"

For a week or so, much as I liked and appreciated the new A4, I still felt that I had not actually moved forward, despite my dealer's assertions that the new A4 was "better" in so many ways than the C6 A6 3.2.

About 2,500 miles into it, I really started to feel the A4 had much to like, more to love and very little to not like.

Note: My Ibis white A4 2.0T quattro is the Prestige version and is optioned with the following: 1. 19" sport package; 2. nav+backup camera w/voice; 3. power rear window shade and manual side shades; 4. Audi Drive Select; and, 5. Wood trim on the dash and doors. I also added Audi chrome tips and Audi maintenance. It was all of $49,000 (almost exactly). My outgoing A6 was $53,286. They have the same lease term and the same lease price per month (almost to the dollar.)

The new 2.0T is -- hold on -- a 4 cylinder turbo engine powered vee-hick-L. It has a 6 speed tiptronic transmission that bears little resemblance to the one in my 2005 A6 3.2, other than having the same name.

The 4 offers up 211HP, the outgoing 6 255HP. The 4 cranks out 258 foot pounds of torque at "idle" (well, practically); the 6 delivers 243 foot pounds at something north of 3,000 RPM.

The wheelbase of both cars is about 1" different, the A6 being the longer in that category. The 4 has been lengthened several clearly noticeable inches, but is still shorter than the A6. The wheels of the 4 are pushed closer to the "head and tail" of the car than on the 6 and the 4 benefits further from a 40/60 f/r torque split and better weight distribution.

The new 4 is much wider than the old 4, but still slightly more narrow than the 6, but when you are driving the 4, the look from behind the wheel is almost the same as it was from behind the wheel of the 6.

The ride of the 4, due, one would imagine, to engineering and wheelbase and width is more like an A6 than it is a B7 A4. Heck, the dash of the 2009 A4 is a carbon copy of the 2005 A6 (which, for me, is a small nit, since I would like to have had SOMETHING that looked a little bit different or newer -- but the '05 A6 interior was so sweet, perhaps Audi restrained itself opting not to mess with what many call "the best interior" period.)

The new A4, were there not already an A5 model, could probably be called an A5 it is so different from the outgoing A4 and so close to the current (2008 MY) A6.

The new tiptronic transmission is the smoothest transmission I have ever driven and the paddle shifters on the steering wheel cause "instantaneous" shifts when flicked.

The torque combined with the smoothness of the engine (vibration free, no kidding) makes you wonder if someone didn't insert a larger engine under the hood -- this is quicker than my 1995 S6 turbo manual shifter, quicker than my V8 A6's, quicker even than my 2003 2.7T manual transmission allroad and quicker than my chipped 1.8T TT (6 speed manual.)

It is, however, not as quick as the last available S4 model with that gutsy 4.2 V8.

It is, oddly, quicker and more responsive than the same A4 equipped with the lovely 3.2 V6 Audi offers as an up-price down-grade (performance and mileage wise, that is) version. It also weighs less than the 3.2, so there is even more of that nimbleness Audis are often famous for especially the "S" versions.

The tires are 255 x 35 x 19" MAX performance Dunlops and they are sticky, sticky, sticky -- coupled with the sport seats, sport suspension and Audi Drive Select this car goes with even more aplomb than a snake in a rat hole (as my wife says.)

The B&O sound system blows the A6's Bose system away. Finally an in dash 6 disc CD changer, too.

In any case, you can find out, elsewhere about the power and performance and something one step above Entry Level Luxury that Audi has imbued this new A4 with -- suffice it to say, I am still fond of my 2005 A6, but the 2009 A4 (at least optioned as I have mine) is the next step up.

Here is what I miss: the headlights articulate UP and DOWN based on road speed, but they do not articulate LEFT and RIGHT based on steering wheel position; I miss folding outside rear view mirrors, but love their built in turn signals and blind spot warning feature; I also miss the halo of light that the interior of the A6 was bathed in after dark -- but many people don't even seem to know they have it.

The Audi Drive Select, no hype, is literally like getting four personalities available one at a time in a single car -- from Comfort to Dynamic and 24 combinations you can dial in through the MMI. This is an amazing innovation. If this car had torque Vectoring and a slightly different tuned exhaust note under part throttle, it would render the A6 C6 3.2 "outclassed" and "over priced."

Remember, I still have nothing but love for my '05 A6 -- this new A4 is just plain wonderful though.

Did I mention it has but 4 cylinders? And, all things considered, it ain't very thirsty.
:shades:

cdnpinhead · January 2009

Interesting review. Welcome back.

Don't be a stranger.

dhamilton · January 2009

The A4's are selling well here in Dallas thanks to rave reviews, and I think a lot of people tired of the same old Mercedes/BMW/Lexus wash, rinse, repeat thing.

rayainsw · January 2009

Interesting read, as usual - thanks for posting, Mark.
One question:
"..all things considered, it ain't very thirsty. "
So - compared to past Audis & [ roughly ]
the same driving, what MPG does this Turbo 4 deliver?
Thanks,
- Ray
[ non-turbo V8 driver ]

markcincinnati · January 2009

I have not done the fill up, reset trip od, drive, fill up and calculate exercise.

My gut and the Audi computer says 25-30mpg's -- I have just turned 4,000 miles and I only use Premium fuel.

I also love putting the system in sport mode and playing on the twisties -- and I typically am able to drive with traffic on our freeways above 75mph.

Winter, too, may reduce mileage.

My past experience: Audis break in @ 5,000 and 10,000 miles and both their performance and efficiency improves at those milestones.

This engine is the best "economy" motor I have ever had the pleasure to drive and feed.

I cannot find turbo lag -- none.

rockshocka1 · January 2009

Just out of curiosity, have you driven w/the sunroof all the way open? I test drove 2, both engine variants, in the fall & the noise/wind w/the roof open was painful to my ears. I mentioned that back then, but no one ever confirmed similar experiences. Only comments I remember reading were no one test drove with it open.

james27 · January 2009

The spec sheet claims 40" of headroom for the driver...is that true? With my older A6, without a sunroof (had to special order it) there was bout 40", but the sunroof took up 2.85", so it was barely over 37" for any car you could actually buy or want. On all of the new ones, it's almost impossible to get one without a sunroof, and if you do, you have to forgo most of the neat fun stuff. That's why I ended up with an M-series - it has the most headroom of any of the other models when equipped with anything worthwhile. The car is okay, but I liked the Audi better.

lexusguy · January 2009

For a week or so, much as I liked and appreciated the new A4, I still felt that I had not actually moved forward, despite my dealer's assertions that the new A4 was "better" in so many ways than the C6 A6 3.2.

The new A4 2.0T is definitely a better car than the old A6 3.2. The new 3.0T engine though finally solves the A6's power problem and puts the advantage back in the C6 camp, (though of course it still gives up some sportiness to the A4). The new 3.0T also makes the 4.2 pointless, just as the 2.7T, especially in S-line guise, did to the old 4.2.

markcincinnati · January 2009

The 2.0T as it stands today also makes the 3.2 somewhat pointless, in the new A4 --especially when you factor in the $3300 premium, a weight disadvantage and a fuel economy disadvantage.

Having said that, the 3.2 sounds better under part throttle than the 2.0T -- although both cars are more isolated from all sounds than my A6 was.

There is more tuning that can be done to the 2.0T (factory tuning), too. But it seems there is little interest in improving the 3.2's numbers -- so the thing is, apparently, Audi has decided that a 2.0T and a 3.0T is your best overall value and performance choice.

The die hards still can have the naturally aspirated versions and they cost more so, for the time being, it would appear everybody wins.

I wish the 3.2 had been goosed in HP and Torque, but super or turbo charging perhaps allows us all to do more with less.

Bless anyone who buys the 3.2 -- personally, however, I don't see the merit in getting the new A4 as a 3.2 when the 2.0T has all that torque way down low in the rev range.

lexusguy · January 2009

Bless anyone who buys the 3.2 -- personally, however, I don't see the merit in getting the new A4 as a 3.2 when the 2.0T has all that torque way down low in the rev range.

I agree. I'm not sure what Audi's plans are in terms of an A4 3.0T, but if they decide not do one because it would hurt the S4, they would probably be better off killing off the 3.2 and offering the 3.0TDi as the middle engine choice.

markcincinnati · January 2009

Here is an observation: the A4 3.2 appears to be able to be priced against the 328xi -- and if you HAVE to have 6 cylinders, the A4 3.2 apparently shows well against the 328xi (assuming both are comparably loaded up with options.)

Of course the issue that can be legitmately brought up is that it is quite easy to pump up the A4 2.0T's price above $50K -- but due to the way low down torque of the turbo motor, the A4 is still performance competitive with the 328xi (in fact it is able to out perform the 328xi.) So, what does the 3.2 compete with? It is only able to pull well from idle due to a shorter final drive ratio (than the 2.0T -- which of course further decreases its economy.)

You can easily equip a 335xi for under $50K, too and in that instance neither the 2.0T or the 3.2 are able to keep up if straight line acceleration means anything to you. Then there is the upcoming 3.0T S4 which if priced closer to the 335xi would make a persuasive argument.

But the S4, no doubt, will be a wonderful and superior performer but at thousands more than the 335xi.

I remember the old days where there were two or three models in the lines of each of the German maker's cars that were brought to the US. There was a 2.8A6 and up the ladder a 2.7TA6 and a 4.2A6 (and there was even an S6 avant) -- BMW had its comparable 5 series models and things seem so clear.

The S4 is no M3, that is saved for the RS4, but then what purpose in the lineup does the 3.2 actually serve. I just config'd a 2009 A6 and once again there are two versions of the 6 the 3.2 and the 3.0T and then there's the apparently redundant (but way more $$$$) 4.2. I don't get it -- why bother with a lineup that doesn't progress in performance as you take the next dollar step up?

At least BMW's approach makes sense.

Oh, to heck with it, the 2.0T A4 is a great car, better than the 328xi in terms of performance, size, features and lux. But the poor 3.2 seems so out of touch.

Kirstie_H · February 2009

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lexusguy · February 2009

I just config'd a 2009 A6 and once again there are two versions of the 6 the 3.2 and the 3.0T and then there's the apparently redundant (but way more $$$$) 4.2. I don't get it -- why bother with a lineup that doesn't progress in performance as you take the next dollar step up?

I configed an '09 A6... what happened to all the options? It seems like you have your choice of Premium/Premium Plus/Prestige and that's basically it. Where's the sport suspension option and everything else?

blckislandguy · February 2009

Mark, thanks for the nice comparo between your new A4 and the earlier A6. Not much to add other than I occasionally look at the A6 as an alternative to the E Class or a 5 Series. So for what it is worth, here is an interesting design issue. A frend of mine has an older A6 with the 3.0 V6. Nothing fancy nor exotic. Certainly not the twin turbo 2.7 engine. Just something to go to Trader Joe's in with a little more elan than a silver Camry. She likes the look of the A6 and the all weather ability of the quattro here in New England.

Last week she had the normal 100,000 mile service done. The car was running well and she just wanted to keep to the factory maintenance schedule. Everything went smoothly except that on an A6 the entire front bumper and front end have to come off to get access to the water pump and the front end idler assemblies and timing chain. A minor oil leak from the one of the four (!) cams necessitated a new cam seal. Naturally, the crank seal was also done. What did this "normal" service cost? $2000!. The mechanics all said to us that they had seen frequent timing component failure as early as 105,000 miles. Does Audi pay for the 100,000 mile service on a CPO vehicle? If Audi wouldn't pay this service under the CPO plan, why buy a CPO Audi?

That Audi would install a four cam engine with a fragile timing set-up as their standard duty A6 sedan engine is, frankly, nuts. Apparently the design of the MB and BMW timing components and far fewer camshafts, is much better and allow for up to 300,000 miles of service before the valves hit the head.

As a side note, the well regarded indy mechanic who did the work commented that the aftermarket cam and crank seals that he originally ordered from the local imported auto parts store, were far inferior to the OEM dealer seals he eventually used. He commented also that Audi calls for mechanics to set the service interval light to come on at different intervals depending on the type of lube oil (synthetic or dino) installed. I am surprised. In my experience, other manufacturers don't make that distinction.

lexusguy · February 2009

Does Audi pay for the 100,000 mile service on a CPO vehicle? If Audi wouldn't pay this service under the CPO plan, why buy a CPO Audi?

Audi doesn't pay for any scheduled maintenance for a CPO vehicle. They only cover warranty repairs. Anything considered a "wear" item will not be covered. This is the same across the board. If you expect BMW to pay for your services at 100K, you're dreaming. If an Audi is still under Audicare when its purchased, that will be in effect until the normal warranty is up.

The last gen C5 A6 was an expensive car to maintain. Sure it's a lot nicer to drive than a Camry, but that's the downside. An E or 5 of similar vintage is likely to be just as pricey to keep running.

If you use the top grade synthetic oil, you can go buy when the computer says its time to come in for a change. If you use the normal stuff, you have to come in every 10.

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