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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • sean35sean35 Member Posts: 6
    I LOVE the Mercedes E-class. Bought an '06 E350 and its the best. The Audi A6 is okay, but it should really be rear-wheel drive. I love the daytime running lights on the A6, that really looks cool. The BMW 535i is nice, but ridiculous insurance rates. I'm not a huge Acura RL fan, they're overpriced and really nothing special. I don't care for Volvos so the S80 is just whatever. I REALLY hate Cadillacs, so the STS just sucks. Lexus GS is a pretty nice car, and not a bad price, and same goes for the Infiniti. I would have to say the Mercedes is worth the money, though. Please respond, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Hi Sean. You look like a fairly new member so welcome aboard. The E is a nice car but of the ones you mentioned I would take the GS. I feel the GS, however is overpriced, but a nice car.

    I own an 06 LS so that is my pick of the litter. You can buy a great 06 CPO LS for much less than a new GS. A no brainer in my book.

    I have owned a couple of Mercedes and the two I owned were pretty good cars so I am sure you will enjoy your E Class.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The Audi A6 is okay, but it should really be rear-wheel drive.

    Then it wouldn't be an Audi. Aside from class leading interiors, Quattro (the real torsen full-time system, not the Haldex slip-induced setup used in the VW platform mates) is what makes Audis what they are. The next generation A6 due in 2011 I believe should be superb. I'm a big fan of the Infiniti M, and I think the next one which will show about the same time as the A6 will also be brilliant.

    I can't get past the styling of the 5 series, and I've never been a fan of the RL or the STS. The S80, like the last one, only makes sense as a used car. Residual values of big Volvos always crater, and they can be found at a year old for $30K. The quality of the GS when it was introduced was shockingly poor, though it seems to have gotten better for '08. When the M is so much more fun to drive, better looking, and much more comfortable though, I still see no reason to buy a GS.

    I would be too nervous about M-B's lousy quality control from '00-'06 to buy anything from those years. The number of lemon law buyback SLs I've seen in particular from that period are just incredible. Aside from that, I just find the E to be a bit bland, though compared to the abomination that is the brand new E, the old one looks gorgeous.
  • sean35sean35 Member Posts: 6
    I have always loved the Lexus LS since it became the 430. It is amazing how much cheaper a certified pre owned car is than a brand new car. The E-class is half the price as an 06 or 07. How do you like your LS? They are just full of features.
    Lexus does make some pretty amazing cars. I had an RX330, and it was great, but was wrecked in an accident. We had a toyota avalon and now the mercedes. While I was recently at the Lexus dealer for my dad's Passat W8, I sat in an LS460L and it is an amazing car!

    Nice to hear from you, you seem very intelligent, not someone who just adds stupid, thoughtless comments.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Sean, all dealers are DESPERATE to sell cars right now, so if you are in the market there are some great deals to be had.

    A late model LS, IMO, is the best car and buy on the planet right now. I bought my '06 last Nov for $34,500., 29,000 miles and it has been fantastic. Best car I have owned and I have owned a lot of cars.

    A Lexus Certified Used Car comes with basically a new car warranty (3 years or 100,000 miles) not just the power train but bumper to bumper so you don't risk anything there.

    Cash is king right now (if you happen to have any :) ) so you can really get a good deal. Check one out and make a ridiculous offer and you might be surprised.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • mako5mako5 Member Posts: 15
    Have a base 2008 m35 and I need a new speaker . Door speaker, 6 speaker system Does anyone know where I car buy speakers ?
  • tonycdtonycd Member Posts: 223
    Crutchfield.com. Or your local car stereo shop (not the installers at the local outlet of the national electronics chains; they're generally bozos).

    Unfortunately for you, the Infiniti M stereo is a non-standard setup. Ask the Crutchfield reps for advice on what'll work; they're generally pretty smart that way.
  • mako5mako5 Member Posts: 15
    Called Crutchfield and they said they did not have enough information on a 2008 yet to recommend speakers but Thanks.
  • sean35sean35 Member Posts: 6
    I see what you're saying and i agree but i meant for the non-quattro A6 (that would be a 2009 A6 3.2) By the way, have you seen the new A6 3.0T?? I think thats a pretty nice car ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I see what you're saying and i agree but i meant for the non-quattro A6 (that would be a 2009 A6 3.2) By the way, have you seen the new A6 3.0T?? I think thats a pretty nice car

    The so called "FrontTrak" A6 has always been the base model that no one actually buys, it's just there so that Audi can say the A6 starts at just $45K. I've never seen a FWD A6 in the wild.

    The new 3.0T is indeed very nice. It's finally a proper replacement for the old 2.7T, and it allows them to take the 535i head on. The next one which will offer ADS and all of Audi's other recent technologies should be stellar.
  • clarence10clarence10 Member Posts: 57
    Hi all,

    I am returning a 2007 M35X on a lease in May and will be looking to purchase something used. Tired of the lease and all the extra dollars which goes with it. I had gotten a great lease deal at the time, so I could not pass it up.

    Here is my question, i have been test driving 2006/5 RL's with around 35-38k miles and the $22-$24k price range. It seems like a nice car, but it is a bit tighter inside then the M. Does anyone have suggestions for other cars to look at? I really want AWD, and need to transport my family of 4.

    My price range is in the low 20's. Also, I am new to buying used, so any advice would be helpful on tricks to watch out for. I am in NY.

    hope it is ok to post this here. If not, please let me know where it should go

    Thx,
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Here is my question, i have been test driving 2006/5 RL's with around 35-38k miles and the $22-$24k price range. It seems like a nice car, but it is a bit tighter inside then the M. Does anyone have suggestions for other cars to look at? I really want AWD, and need to transport my family of 4.

    I assume you're not interested in just buying out your M35X? It seems odd to go from a 2007 to a 2006. In any case, I wouldn't recommend the RL, it's cramped, sluggish, handles poorly, the interior materials are mediocre, and the electronics are annoying. It's as exciting to look at and drive as a golf cart.

    A 2006 Audi Certified A6 3.2 would be a much better buy in the $22-24K range. It's much roomier and much more comfortable than the RL, and gets better mileage thanks to a modern 6-speed auto. Audi's MMI system is also vastly better than the Acura interface. The CPO warranty will cover the car until 2012, and up to 100K miles.
  • clarence10clarence10 Member Posts: 57
    I would agree that the RL seems cramped. The back particularly is much smaller then my M35X.

    The reason I do not want to buy the lease is that it is $29k to buy out and honestly, I do not know if I trust the infiniti brand in regards to repairs. I have had a variety of issues.

    What is the repair record like for these 2006 Audi A6 3.2? If you got one, would you only go with a CPO?

    Any suggestions on where to look?

    I had spoken to someone who was stearing me towards Acura or Lexus because of repair records,

    Thx
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    It sounds like reliability and good customer service is very important to you. IMO both Lexus and Acura provide superior reliability and customer service. You might check out the ES or the GS. Heck, you could even get a 2006 CPO Lexus LS in the low 30's. I would certainly check it out.

    Despite various opinions you might get here, Consumer Reports is very high on the RL. Good luck !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • draz2draz2 Member Posts: 50
    I mention this because I believe the TL competes directly (and favorably) with many of the more presigious cars in this category (i.e. A6, 5 series, E-class) at a price savings of $17-20k. The Acura pricing strategy eliminates all the annoying "packages" you have to buy to get leather, nav, xenon headlights, seat memories, etc. Only two choices. Do you want awd or fwd? After that, do you want the tech package or the base car? The fwd car comes with a 280hp engine and can be had with the tech package for $35,500. The sh-awd version w/ tech (305hp) can be had for $40k.

    Here's what you get in the tech cars: leather, keyless entry/start, xenon headlights, real time weather and traffic, a SOTA nav system with a nav screen that rivals HDTV, backup camera, seat memory, full ipod integration, a built-in hard drive that you can burn up to 400 hours of CD music directly onto, a restaurant guide with full Zagat ratings and descriptions, heated seats, dual zone climate control and bluetooth.

    All in a package that's earned 5 start crash ratings. The cabin is amazingly roomy as you might expect in a car that's 74" wide (compare this to the G35/37 which is only 69" wide -- the differences in interior room and comfort are immediately apparent). The rear seat is particulary noteworthy for it's size and is comfortable for 6 foot adults.

    I drove both the sh-awd and the fwd versions and settled on the fwd car because I live in NYC and I found the sh-awd car to ride too firmly for my tastes. It was jarring on bumps. The fwd car rode just perfectly. Firm, controlled but forgiving over road irregularities. Reminded me of Mercedes' suspensions which I've always regarded as class leading in this size/class of car. But if you live in an area with predominantly smooth roads, the sh-awd may be your car.

    I realize it may sound heretical, but I honestly believe the 2009 TL competes successfully and directly against to other cars mentioned above.

    And Acura reliability and build quality are second to none.

    Any thoughts?
  • clarence10clarence10 Member Posts: 57
    Thanks for this info. I would love an LS, but trying to keep the price in the Low $20k range and also looking for All Wheel or Front Wheel Drive. Whenvever I look at a Lexus, they seem to be priced a good 20-25% higher then the Acura. I assume because of popularity.

    Do they sell 2005 CPO Lexus?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    You are certainly entitled to your opinion and should enjoy your car, but to answer some of your points ...

    Do you want awd or fwd?

    Well, therein lies the problem for a good number of folks shopping in this class. FWD is typically attributed to a "lower class" car. And it is cheaper to manufacture, which leads to some of the cost savings you've pointed out.

    The cabin is amazingly roomy as you might expect in a car that's 74" wide (compare this to the G35/37 which is only 69" wide -- the differences in interior room and comfort are immediately apparent). The rear seat is particulary noteworthy for it's size and is comfortable for 6 foot adults.

    That's great if a large car is what you are after. Personally, I found my Accord too large. I do like having the room for those occassions I need it, but I don't like it when I want my vehicle to act more like a sportscar.

    and that relation to the Accord doesn't help, either. If you notice in the list at the top of the page, the Lexus GS is listed, while the ES is overlooked. Kind of the same reasoning, I believe.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Yes they do. I think they will cpo a car if it is not over 5 years old so you could go to the 2004 model year. Very few changes in the car from 04 to 06 so that is a good idea. I have seen a few older than 5 years that were certified. See what your local dealer has in stock. Some very good deals are out there.

    Some say that a good set of snow tires (all 4 tires) for the winter months is a good alternative to front wheel/all wheel drive.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • draz2draz2 Member Posts: 50
    Interesting points. especially so in that I currently own a 2007 ES350. Great car, mind you, but a snooze to drive.

    I know that most people associate fwd with "economy" which is why the TL offers the sh-awd (super handling - all wheel drive) option. As you may already know, this system is vastly superior to most awd systems out there in that it can vector the torque not only front/back, but between each individual wheel based on load and spin -- thus, the "sh" part of the equation. It blows the quatro system out of the water in both wet and dry handling.

    As to the car's handling, I can assure you it's razor sharp. The steering, in particular deserves special mention as it's so precise you could put the car thru a space with 2" on each side without a problem. It has terrific weight and road feel, too. Mind you, it's no Porsche (but what is?) but it'll more than hold it's own against the other cars mentioned in straight ahead speed and slalom handling.

    Sorry if I sound like an employee of Acura (I'm not, of course) but I really believe this vehicle doesn't get the recognition it deserves. Part of this may be due to previous generations of the TL which were bland, unrecognizable and, in many ways, mere conveyances rather that cars that stirred the soul. I think Acura has effectively rectified that with this current generation TL. I've owned Mercedes (1), BMW (1), Volvos (2), Audi (1) and Lexus' (3) over the years and I really do believe that in features, appointments, driving dynamics, room and sportiness this car competes on a more than even footing.
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    If you like infiniti M then you probably can get 2006 CPO M35x on low 20's.

    I would NOT recommend Acura RL.

    I have 2008 MDX and 00 Infiniti I30..

    00 I30 has better build quality (Surprising but TRUE)

    I30 has better software logic (for example headlight go out/turn on when keys are in ignition NOT when the door is opened - every time -you go back to car to get something head lights turn on and then off...There are other similar minor annoyances)

    MDX has TOO much technology that takes pleasure of driving away...and is making me nervous about repair cost outside warranty.

    The NAV (user interface) of MDX is not that great.

    Backup camera in MDX is very deceptive.

    Having said that SH-AWD is blast to drive.

    OK lf I were you what would I consider?
    In pre-owned
    Infiniti M, G
    Lexus GS, LS
    Acura TL (2008 and older - not technology intensive)
    I would also consider following new cars
    2008 TL (If you can find one)
    Nissan Altima/Maxima
    Accord
    Hyundai Azera/Genesis...doubt you can find genesis for <30K

    Also I would look at the cost of financing used 20K vs 0%APR and other incentives available for new car. (If you are paying cash for thecar then this is mute point)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    .What is the repair record like for these 2006 Audi A6 3.2? If you got one, would you only go with a CPO?

    From what I've seen and heard, the latest A6 is supposed to be pretty good. There were a few minor issues with the initial '05s, mostly to do with MMI teething issues, but those were worked out by '06.

    How long do you plan to keep the car? If it's more than two years, I would definitely either get a CPO, or talk to some Audi dealers and see if they can get you the factory extended warranty.

    Both the RL and the Lexus GS300 AWD had poor reliability in their first year. Acura improved the RL quite a bit for year two, Lexus didn't. I would steer clear of the GS300 AWD. Normally a Lexus is a safe bet in terms of reliability, but for whatever reason Lexus totally blew it with the GS AWD.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Here's what you get in the tech cars: leather, keyless entry/start, xenon headlights, real time weather and traffic, a SOTA nav system with a nav screen that rivals HDTV, backup camera, seat memory, full ipod integration, a built-in hard drive that you can burn up to 400 hours of CD music directly onto, a restaurant guide with full Zagat ratings and descriptions, heated seats, dual zone climate control and bluetooth.

    You also get one of the ugliest cars in recent memory, with an interior that's Honda quality, at best. Only Acura still thinks they can charge over $40K for plastic wood and plastic aluminum. No thanks.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Some say that a good set of snow tires (all 4 tires) for the winter months is a good alternative to front wheel/all wheel drive.

    Having had plenty of experience with an LS430 on Arctic Alpins and Blizzaks, I can report that the car is drivable with light snow and mostly plowed roads. That's as far as I'd go. If there's a lot of fresh snow or ice on the roads and the crews haven't gotten to it yet, forget about it. For those days I would take the wife's RX, and the LS would stay home.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If you notice in the list at the top of the page, the Lexus GS is listed, while the ES is overlooked. Kind of the same reasoning, I believe.

    Actually it's because the TL, ES, G37, CTS, etc. don't compete in this class. Acura has increased the size and feature content of the TL (making the RL utterly irrelevant in the process) but it's still an entry-level car, one which competes with the ES/IS, G, CTS, C-class, A4, and all the rest. You'll find them all on the entry luxury forum.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Hmmm... then what is the IS? And what about the TSX?

    And as far as the CTS, is it entry level merely because its the bottom rung Caddy? Because I'm pretty sure it is above entry level, at least as far as size is concerned. I don't want to get into (another) debate on what does or doesn't belong here, but it is a grey area sometimes, to be sure.

    I think, to my point above, the ES is not here, not because it is entry level, because its NOT entry level as long as the IS exists, but because its not a performance sedan. Same could be said of the TL. That is, at least, if we reserve "performance" for RWD .... OHH... wait. But then we have the S80 listed here ... ugh.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Hmmm... then what is the IS? And what about the TSX?

    I'm sorry, but the ES isn't here because it just isn't a mid-lux car. Whether a car is performance oriented, or what wheels are driven doesn't matter. Let's not forget that the A6 is technically available with FWD, but it is still firmly a mid-lux sedan.

    Entry-lux means $35-50K. They can overlap somewhat in size with the mid-lux class, usually depending on whether they are built specifically for the North American market. The NA specific cars such as the CTS, TL, and ES tend to be larger than the world market cars. Both the ES and IS are entry level. The TSX is also entry level.

    Acura competes in the entry class with two cars, just as Lexus does, but in a different way. The IS is Lexus' entry performance sedan, while the ES is the entry luxury car. Instead of offering engine choices, Acura offers the TSX to compete with cars like the IS250, A4 2.0T, etc. and the TL to compete with the IS350, A4 3.2, etc.

    Mid-lux cars range from $45-70K. Every single one except for the RL offers a V8, which is one of the many reasons why the RL has never been more than an also ran. While its true that a vast majority of buyers opt for the V6, you still have to at least offer a V8 if you want to be taken seriously.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Sounds prudent to me. I personally have never used snow tires and I also leave the LS in the garage during bad weather. That is what the LX is for.

    That said, I have seen some argue here that the very best set up for snow/ice is rear wheel drive with 4 snow tires. This argument never made much sense to me but it is out there.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    the Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans discussion, which hasn't had a lot of traffic lately. That's where we are covering some of these cars that aren't really in this class.

    :)
  • clarence10clarence10 Member Posts: 57
    Has anyone attempted to go to a wholesale auction to purchase a car? I have access through a friend and figure that if I find what I want, I could pick something up.

    any comments?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,199
    Do you trust your friend to pick out a car for you?

    Most auctions have gotten very sticky about who they let in... Your buddy just saying you are an employee usually won't work any more. Most dealers have to submit a list ahead of time, of authorized employees who can attend the auction.

    In my experience, it takes a lot of homework, an unlimited CarFax account and access to the Manheim website to get the pre-sale information. Then, you'll need your friend to be willing to go on the day you find the cars you are interested in. Plus, the faith that he'll remember the options that are important to you, and what options/colors are deal killers.

    I have a co-worker who has a dealer's license... I've known him for over 20 years, and I still won't take the chance.

    regards,
    kyfdx
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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    That said, I have seen some argue here that the very best set up for snow/ice is rear wheel drive with 4 snow tires. This argument never made much sense to me but it is out there.

    That makes absolutely no sense. There simply is no substitute for AWD in bad weather. Tires also help, and not all AWD systems are created equal. From what I've seen and read, Quattro is the best there is on snow and ice.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    An all-season tire as a compromise all seasons. A good set of snow tires helps you stop signficantly shorter than you could ever think of with all-seasons in bad weather, plus turn and start with less slipping. A good set can handle nearly as well as a mid-level performance car and can be quieter.

    Rubber gets harder when it gets cold (and as it ages), and snow tires shouldn't be used when it regularly gets above 50-degrees becasue they would get too soft and wear fast. Because of the softer rubber, they grip much better in the snow and ice.

    An all-wheel drive vehicle may give you false confidence starting, but can't stop any faster than a front or rear-wheel drive car. Have you ever tried to go up a steep, slippery hill with a front-wheel drive car? Could be tough. A rear-wheel may not be much better, but will be some since the weight transfer is rearward, but no comparison to an all-wheel drive car.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    Have you ever tried to go up a steep, slippery hill with a front-wheel drive car? Could be tough.

    I always have to chuckle when I read comments like this. Years ago before front-wheel drive cars were commonplace, I owned one of the first in my neighborhood. One night while I was out there was an ice storm. The last block of my drive home was a long hill. I was the only one of my neighbors who was able to make it up the hill. Everyone else abandoned their rear-wheel drive cars and walked home.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    That's pretty much been my experience also. Front wheel drive works better than rwd on snow and ice be it up hill, down hill, or level. Pulling just works better than pushing.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    I've owned lots of front-wheel drive cars, and under most circumstances, yes, you can get going where you can't with rear-wheel drive cars, but I've had this happen - weight transfer is real. Skill, helps, too.

    A good set of snow-tires trumps all, though, especially if the snow is icy or deep.
  • vavavavolvovavavavolvo Member Posts: 110
    James27 is right on about the dedicated winter tires in all respects. AWD only assists with acceleration or getting unstuck, while the heavily siped, compliant aggressive treadblocks of winter tires help with both of those things and in addition help with braking and cornering. There have been tests done by Car and Driver and other auto magazines over the years showing that winter tires confer more of a safety margin than any other single feature, including AWD. However, AWD plus dedicated winter tires would be the ultimate combination for acceleration or getting unstuck in slippery conditions.

    Front wheel drive is generally accepted as superior to RWD in winter. The explanation that makes the most sense is that the weight of the engine and other front end components is greater than that in the rear, and this weight is applied over the drive wheels and enhances traction. This is why putting weight in the trunk of a RWD car or the bed of a RWD pickup enhances snow traction. There is rearward transfer of weight under strong acceleration, but this effect is trumped by the static weight distribution in FWD vehicles. Also, for the transfer to occur you have to be accelerating already, and under slippery conditions with RWD it can be hard to do that.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    The term for the temperature threshold at which a particular tire's rubber compound will harden is called the "glass point". Higher performance tires are designed to operate at high temperature and have a higher glass point. As a result, they will harden and lose their pliancy and grip in cool weather at temperatures where other tires would still be flexible. The converse is true for snow tires.

    The glass point is one of the reasons why high performance tires can suffer significant reductions in traction even in small amounts of ice or snow.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    This is an excellent technical description of entry and mid-level luxury categories. Another way to respond to the question about why the ES350 is not included in this category... "The ES350 is not listed because it's a dressed up Camry, which defines it inextricably as an entry-level, near-luxury vehicle."
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Here is a new sedan that is really making waves and winning all sorts of awards. Lots of discussion on the Genesis boards as to whether or not this is a true luxury sedan.

    What do you guys think? Should it be included here or does price alone exclude it? How about performance wise? Does just having the Hyundai name exclude it?

    IMO I believe it qualifies as entry level luxury/performance and this board does not distinguish between entry and mid level. At least not by the title.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Given its performance and design quality, then Genesis V8 qualifies here, IMO. Another candidate is 2010 Genesis Coupe.

    Inside Line

    Regards,
    Jose
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Hola, jose !! Alas, the coupe is not a sedan ! Certainly it would qualify as a luxury performance coupe ! Thanks for the link. Very impressive.

    I hope all is well with you !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Yup! :blush: I forgot this is the LPS forum.

    Everything is OK, Dan; thanks for asking. I hope it will be all right with you too.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The title of this board "luxury performance sedans" is a bit vague, but when you look at the sedans listed, it's clear that this is the mid-lux market we're talking about. Should the Genesis be included? I would have to say no.

    You need more than just size and RWD (and even a V8) to qualify. The Genesis' price tag is too low, and it doesn't have a luxury badge, so it doesn't make it. The 300C and the Taurus SHO are also powerful, big cars, but they don't belong here either.
  • vavavavolvovavavavolvo Member Posts: 110
    Should the board be re-titled Luxury Performance Sedans with snob appeal?
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    One of the things that sets a luxury sedan apart from others is low NVH (noise, vibration, harshness). The M-series is noisey, but not bad in vibration and harshness. The Genesis excells in all three, so if others can fit in with missing pieces, I think it should be here as well.
  • desert_ratdesert_rat Member Posts: 23
    I purchased an 2009 Acura RL two month ago. The car looks small from the outside, but I feel it is very roomy inside. It's true that there isn't much room on the backseat if the front seats are moved all the way to the back, but on the other hand they move much more to the back than many other car seats. The car drives great. Enough power, we don't drive 160MPH in this country. It is not sluggish at all. I have driven quite a few different cars the last year. Everything feels very solid, high quality. I will know in about 2 years how it holds up. The dealer is also very courteous and professional. They provide free loaner car of the same class if needed. (so does BMW here, but not Cadillac).
    I did a lot of research on all the car forums on this web site before making the ultimate decision. I saw a lot of post for the M35 that had problems with the steering, keeping the car in the lane. Mercedes overall seem to be good cars now, but if they are not, many dealers are not willing to get the problem fixed. This statement is not only based on the forums, but somebody from work had experienced it over and over.
    Never heard anything bad about Lexus.
    I think you should take an extended test drive of those cars you consider and then make a decision.
  • vavavavolvovavavavolvo Member Posts: 110
    That's a great car that is frequently overlooked. What kind of gas mileage do you get with that?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The M-series is noisey, but not bad in vibration and harshness. The Genesis excells in all three, so if others can fit in with missing pieces, I think it should be here as well.

    A Toyota Camry V6 has very low NVH. Is that now luxury performance sedan as well?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I purchased an 2009 Acura RL two month ago.

    I'm curious as to what kind of deal you got. Last I checked Acura was selling around 300 RLs a month, which works out to a little more than 1 per dealer. I'm sure they are giving them away now.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Well, the second part to that is the quality and content of the contents of the car...how things are finished, how they look, their fit, and function. No, a Camry doesn't cut it for luxury car, although very reliable, but in my opinion, quite bland.
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