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I own an 06 LS so that is my pick of the litter. You can buy a great 06 CPO LS for much less than a new GS. A no brainer in my book.
I have owned a couple of Mercedes and the two I owned were pretty good cars so I am sure you will enjoy your E Class.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Then it wouldn't be an Audi. Aside from class leading interiors, Quattro (the real torsen full-time system, not the Haldex slip-induced setup used in the VW platform mates) is what makes Audis what they are. The next generation A6 due in 2011 I believe should be superb. I'm a big fan of the Infiniti M, and I think the next one which will show about the same time as the A6 will also be brilliant.
I can't get past the styling of the 5 series, and I've never been a fan of the RL or the STS. The S80, like the last one, only makes sense as a used car. Residual values of big Volvos always crater, and they can be found at a year old for $30K. The quality of the GS when it was introduced was shockingly poor, though it seems to have gotten better for '08. When the M is so much more fun to drive, better looking, and much more comfortable though, I still see no reason to buy a GS.
I would be too nervous about M-B's lousy quality control from '00-'06 to buy anything from those years. The number of lemon law buyback SLs I've seen in particular from that period are just incredible. Aside from that, I just find the E to be a bit bland, though compared to the abomination that is the brand new E, the old one looks gorgeous.
Lexus does make some pretty amazing cars. I had an RX330, and it was great, but was wrecked in an accident. We had a toyota avalon and now the mercedes. While I was recently at the Lexus dealer for my dad's Passat W8, I sat in an LS460L and it is an amazing car!
Nice to hear from you, you seem very intelligent, not someone who just adds stupid, thoughtless comments.
A late model LS, IMO, is the best car and buy on the planet right now. I bought my '06 last Nov for $34,500., 29,000 miles and it has been fantastic. Best car I have owned and I have owned a lot of cars.
A Lexus Certified Used Car comes with basically a new car warranty (3 years or 100,000 miles) not just the power train but bumper to bumper so you don't risk anything there.
Cash is king right now (if you happen to have any ) so you can really get a good deal. Check one out and make a ridiculous offer and you might be surprised.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Unfortunately for you, the Infiniti M stereo is a non-standard setup. Ask the Crutchfield reps for advice on what'll work; they're generally pretty smart that way.
The so called "FrontTrak" A6 has always been the base model that no one actually buys, it's just there so that Audi can say the A6 starts at just $45K. I've never seen a FWD A6 in the wild.
The new 3.0T is indeed very nice. It's finally a proper replacement for the old 2.7T, and it allows them to take the 535i head on. The next one which will offer ADS and all of Audi's other recent technologies should be stellar.
I am returning a 2007 M35X on a lease in May and will be looking to purchase something used. Tired of the lease and all the extra dollars which goes with it. I had gotten a great lease deal at the time, so I could not pass it up.
Here is my question, i have been test driving 2006/5 RL's with around 35-38k miles and the $22-$24k price range. It seems like a nice car, but it is a bit tighter inside then the M. Does anyone have suggestions for other cars to look at? I really want AWD, and need to transport my family of 4.
My price range is in the low 20's. Also, I am new to buying used, so any advice would be helpful on tricks to watch out for. I am in NY.
hope it is ok to post this here. If not, please let me know where it should go
Thx,
I assume you're not interested in just buying out your M35X? It seems odd to go from a 2007 to a 2006. In any case, I wouldn't recommend the RL, it's cramped, sluggish, handles poorly, the interior materials are mediocre, and the electronics are annoying. It's as exciting to look at and drive as a golf cart.
A 2006 Audi Certified A6 3.2 would be a much better buy in the $22-24K range. It's much roomier and much more comfortable than the RL, and gets better mileage thanks to a modern 6-speed auto. Audi's MMI system is also vastly better than the Acura interface. The CPO warranty will cover the car until 2012, and up to 100K miles.
The reason I do not want to buy the lease is that it is $29k to buy out and honestly, I do not know if I trust the infiniti brand in regards to repairs. I have had a variety of issues.
What is the repair record like for these 2006 Audi A6 3.2? If you got one, would you only go with a CPO?
Any suggestions on where to look?
I had spoken to someone who was stearing me towards Acura or Lexus because of repair records,
Thx
Despite various opinions you might get here, Consumer Reports is very high on the RL. Good luck !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Here's what you get in the tech cars: leather, keyless entry/start, xenon headlights, real time weather and traffic, a SOTA nav system with a nav screen that rivals HDTV, backup camera, seat memory, full ipod integration, a built-in hard drive that you can burn up to 400 hours of CD music directly onto, a restaurant guide with full Zagat ratings and descriptions, heated seats, dual zone climate control and bluetooth.
All in a package that's earned 5 start crash ratings. The cabin is amazingly roomy as you might expect in a car that's 74" wide (compare this to the G35/37 which is only 69" wide -- the differences in interior room and comfort are immediately apparent). The rear seat is particulary noteworthy for it's size and is comfortable for 6 foot adults.
I drove both the sh-awd and the fwd versions and settled on the fwd car because I live in NYC and I found the sh-awd car to ride too firmly for my tastes. It was jarring on bumps. The fwd car rode just perfectly. Firm, controlled but forgiving over road irregularities. Reminded me of Mercedes' suspensions which I've always regarded as class leading in this size/class of car. But if you live in an area with predominantly smooth roads, the sh-awd may be your car.
I realize it may sound heretical, but I honestly believe the 2009 TL competes successfully and directly against to other cars mentioned above.
And Acura reliability and build quality are second to none.
Any thoughts?
Do they sell 2005 CPO Lexus?
Do you want awd or fwd?
Well, therein lies the problem for a good number of folks shopping in this class. FWD is typically attributed to a "lower class" car. And it is cheaper to manufacture, which leads to some of the cost savings you've pointed out.
The cabin is amazingly roomy as you might expect in a car that's 74" wide (compare this to the G35/37 which is only 69" wide -- the differences in interior room and comfort are immediately apparent). The rear seat is particulary noteworthy for it's size and is comfortable for 6 foot adults.
That's great if a large car is what you are after. Personally, I found my Accord too large. I do like having the room for those occassions I need it, but I don't like it when I want my vehicle to act more like a sportscar.
and that relation to the Accord doesn't help, either. If you notice in the list at the top of the page, the Lexus GS is listed, while the ES is overlooked. Kind of the same reasoning, I believe.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Some say that a good set of snow tires (all 4 tires) for the winter months is a good alternative to front wheel/all wheel drive.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I know that most people associate fwd with "economy" which is why the TL offers the sh-awd (super handling - all wheel drive) option. As you may already know, this system is vastly superior to most awd systems out there in that it can vector the torque not only front/back, but between each individual wheel based on load and spin -- thus, the "sh" part of the equation. It blows the quatro system out of the water in both wet and dry handling.
As to the car's handling, I can assure you it's razor sharp. The steering, in particular deserves special mention as it's so precise you could put the car thru a space with 2" on each side without a problem. It has terrific weight and road feel, too. Mind you, it's no Porsche (but what is?) but it'll more than hold it's own against the other cars mentioned in straight ahead speed and slalom handling.
Sorry if I sound like an employee of Acura (I'm not, of course) but I really believe this vehicle doesn't get the recognition it deserves. Part of this may be due to previous generations of the TL which were bland, unrecognizable and, in many ways, mere conveyances rather that cars that stirred the soul. I think Acura has effectively rectified that with this current generation TL. I've owned Mercedes (1), BMW (1), Volvos (2), Audi (1) and Lexus' (3) over the years and I really do believe that in features, appointments, driving dynamics, room and sportiness this car competes on a more than even footing.
I would NOT recommend Acura RL.
I have 2008 MDX and 00 Infiniti I30..
00 I30 has better build quality (Surprising but TRUE)
I30 has better software logic (for example headlight go out/turn on when keys are in ignition NOT when the door is opened - every time -you go back to car to get something head lights turn on and then off...There are other similar minor annoyances)
MDX has TOO much technology that takes pleasure of driving away...and is making me nervous about repair cost outside warranty.
The NAV (user interface) of MDX is not that great.
Backup camera in MDX is very deceptive.
Having said that SH-AWD is blast to drive.
OK lf I were you what would I consider?
In pre-owned
Infiniti M, G
Lexus GS, LS
Acura TL (2008 and older - not technology intensive)
I would also consider following new cars
2008 TL (If you can find one)
Nissan Altima/Maxima
Accord
Hyundai Azera/Genesis...doubt you can find genesis for <30K
Also I would look at the cost of financing used 20K vs 0%APR and other incentives available for new car. (If you are paying cash for thecar then this is mute point)
From what I've seen and heard, the latest A6 is supposed to be pretty good. There were a few minor issues with the initial '05s, mostly to do with MMI teething issues, but those were worked out by '06.
How long do you plan to keep the car? If it's more than two years, I would definitely either get a CPO, or talk to some Audi dealers and see if they can get you the factory extended warranty.
Both the RL and the Lexus GS300 AWD had poor reliability in their first year. Acura improved the RL quite a bit for year two, Lexus didn't. I would steer clear of the GS300 AWD. Normally a Lexus is a safe bet in terms of reliability, but for whatever reason Lexus totally blew it with the GS AWD.
You also get one of the ugliest cars in recent memory, with an interior that's Honda quality, at best. Only Acura still thinks they can charge over $40K for plastic wood and plastic aluminum. No thanks.
Having had plenty of experience with an LS430 on Arctic Alpins and Blizzaks, I can report that the car is drivable with light snow and mostly plowed roads. That's as far as I'd go. If there's a lot of fresh snow or ice on the roads and the crews haven't gotten to it yet, forget about it. For those days I would take the wife's RX, and the LS would stay home.
Actually it's because the TL, ES, G37, CTS, etc. don't compete in this class. Acura has increased the size and feature content of the TL (making the RL utterly irrelevant in the process) but it's still an entry-level car, one which competes with the ES/IS, G, CTS, C-class, A4, and all the rest. You'll find them all on the entry luxury forum.
And as far as the CTS, is it entry level merely because its the bottom rung Caddy? Because I'm pretty sure it is above entry level, at least as far as size is concerned. I don't want to get into (another) debate on what does or doesn't belong here, but it is a grey area sometimes, to be sure.
I think, to my point above, the ES is not here, not because it is entry level, because its NOT entry level as long as the IS exists, but because its not a performance sedan. Same could be said of the TL. That is, at least, if we reserve "performance" for RWD .... OHH... wait. But then we have the S80 listed here ... ugh.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm sorry, but the ES isn't here because it just isn't a mid-lux car. Whether a car is performance oriented, or what wheels are driven doesn't matter. Let's not forget that the A6 is technically available with FWD, but it is still firmly a mid-lux sedan.
Entry-lux means $35-50K. They can overlap somewhat in size with the mid-lux class, usually depending on whether they are built specifically for the North American market. The NA specific cars such as the CTS, TL, and ES tend to be larger than the world market cars. Both the ES and IS are entry level. The TSX is also entry level.
Acura competes in the entry class with two cars, just as Lexus does, but in a different way. The IS is Lexus' entry performance sedan, while the ES is the entry luxury car. Instead of offering engine choices, Acura offers the TSX to compete with cars like the IS250, A4 2.0T, etc. and the TL to compete with the IS350, A4 3.2, etc.
Mid-lux cars range from $45-70K. Every single one except for the RL offers a V8, which is one of the many reasons why the RL has never been more than an also ran. While its true that a vast majority of buyers opt for the V6, you still have to at least offer a V8 if you want to be taken seriously.
That said, I have seen some argue here that the very best set up for snow/ice is rear wheel drive with 4 snow tires. This argument never made much sense to me but it is out there.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
any comments?
Most auctions have gotten very sticky about who they let in... Your buddy just saying you are an employee usually won't work any more. Most dealers have to submit a list ahead of time, of authorized employees who can attend the auction.
In my experience, it takes a lot of homework, an unlimited CarFax account and access to the Manheim website to get the pre-sale information. Then, you'll need your friend to be willing to go on the day you find the cars you are interested in. Plus, the faith that he'll remember the options that are important to you, and what options/colors are deal killers.
I have a co-worker who has a dealer's license... I've known him for over 20 years, and I still won't take the chance.
regards,
kyfdx
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That makes absolutely no sense. There simply is no substitute for AWD in bad weather. Tires also help, and not all AWD systems are created equal. From what I've seen and read, Quattro is the best there is on snow and ice.
Rubber gets harder when it gets cold (and as it ages), and snow tires shouldn't be used when it regularly gets above 50-degrees becasue they would get too soft and wear fast. Because of the softer rubber, they grip much better in the snow and ice.
An all-wheel drive vehicle may give you false confidence starting, but can't stop any faster than a front or rear-wheel drive car. Have you ever tried to go up a steep, slippery hill with a front-wheel drive car? Could be tough. A rear-wheel may not be much better, but will be some since the weight transfer is rearward, but no comparison to an all-wheel drive car.
I always have to chuckle when I read comments like this. Years ago before front-wheel drive cars were commonplace, I owned one of the first in my neighborhood. One night while I was out there was an ice storm. The last block of my drive home was a long hill. I was the only one of my neighbors who was able to make it up the hill. Everyone else abandoned their rear-wheel drive cars and walked home.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
A good set of snow-tires trumps all, though, especially if the snow is icy or deep.
Front wheel drive is generally accepted as superior to RWD in winter. The explanation that makes the most sense is that the weight of the engine and other front end components is greater than that in the rear, and this weight is applied over the drive wheels and enhances traction. This is why putting weight in the trunk of a RWD car or the bed of a RWD pickup enhances snow traction. There is rearward transfer of weight under strong acceleration, but this effect is trumped by the static weight distribution in FWD vehicles. Also, for the transfer to occur you have to be accelerating already, and under slippery conditions with RWD it can be hard to do that.
The glass point is one of the reasons why high performance tires can suffer significant reductions in traction even in small amounts of ice or snow.
What do you guys think? Should it be included here or does price alone exclude it? How about performance wise? Does just having the Hyundai name exclude it?
IMO I believe it qualifies as entry level luxury/performance and this board does not distinguish between entry and mid level. At least not by the title.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Inside Line
Regards,
Jose
I hope all is well with you !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Everything is OK, Dan; thanks for asking. I hope it will be all right with you too.
Regards,
Jose
You need more than just size and RWD (and even a V8) to qualify. The Genesis' price tag is too low, and it doesn't have a luxury badge, so it doesn't make it. The 300C and the Taurus SHO are also powerful, big cars, but they don't belong here either.
I did a lot of research on all the car forums on this web site before making the ultimate decision. I saw a lot of post for the M35 that had problems with the steering, keeping the car in the lane. Mercedes overall seem to be good cars now, but if they are not, many dealers are not willing to get the problem fixed. This statement is not only based on the forums, but somebody from work had experienced it over and over.
Never heard anything bad about Lexus.
I think you should take an extended test drive of those cars you consider and then make a decision.
A Toyota Camry V6 has very low NVH. Is that now luxury performance sedan as well?
I'm curious as to what kind of deal you got. Last I checked Acura was selling around 300 RLs a month, which works out to a little more than 1 per dealer. I'm sure they are giving them away now.