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Luxury Sport Sedan Hybrids--or even "green"
It seems that the hybrids out now, or even in the pipeline, are either SUV's, or based off of economy cars. I am definitely a sport sedan/sport car person, and i definitely want my car to be "green"--the primary attribute being that it ought to be able to average, say, at least 35MPG in mixed driving.
I have a 328i and i basically want a car with its attributes ( handling, power, driving pleasure, accouterments ), but with better fuel economy. I can periodically squeeze out 35MPG on the highway, and i think it's absurd that as a country we are moving backward on fuel economy. I do think this is eminently possible to achieve. A prius can get 55mpg, and hybrids don't have as much of a penalty for increasing weight and power as a non-hybrid vehicle.
I sent a e-mail to BMW public relations, and they replied that they are not considering hybrids at all at this point, and they did not answer my concerns concerning their fleet fuel economy-right now, they as a corporation pay penalties for not meeting CAFE, and i therefore find it hard to justify buying one one their cars, however much i like them.
So, I wondered if anyone has information concerning "green" luxury cars, and i would be interested in hearing others opinions on the topic.
dave
I have a 328i and i basically want a car with its attributes ( handling, power, driving pleasure, accouterments ), but with better fuel economy. I can periodically squeeze out 35MPG on the highway, and i think it's absurd that as a country we are moving backward on fuel economy. I do think this is eminently possible to achieve. A prius can get 55mpg, and hybrids don't have as much of a penalty for increasing weight and power as a non-hybrid vehicle.
I sent a e-mail to BMW public relations, and they replied that they are not considering hybrids at all at this point, and they did not answer my concerns concerning their fleet fuel economy-right now, they as a corporation pay penalties for not meeting CAFE, and i therefore find it hard to justify buying one one their cars, however much i like them.
So, I wondered if anyone has information concerning "green" luxury cars, and i would be interested in hearing others opinions on the topic.
dave
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Dennis
The mercedes benz e320diesel is 3,800 pounds, gets to 60 in 6.8 seconds, gets 35mpg in mixed driving ( EPA is 27/37 but reviews are reporting much better, in line with the lighter slower hybrids ), and gets 368 lb-ft at 1,800 RPM.
'Course i'd want that in the lighter less expensive-class, but that's the idea. Toss it in the $27K c230 and you have an awesome $30K vehicle that could perform and get 40mpg on vegetable oil.
Mercedes is also producing a grand sport touring with a diesel v8 and a hybrid motor. Also big ( seating for six ), fast ( 0-60 6.6 ) and 35MPG.
Looking up info the past few days, the europeans are going in the diesel direction--hence the lack of hybrids.
Hybrid pros:
1) Impresive gas mileage, fuel at every station
2) Pushing technology envelope for other applications
3) Horsepower
Hybrid cons:
1) Still using gasoline.
2) Longevity concerns ( battery pack renewal, disposal )
3) Limited supply because mfgrs are losing money on them
Diesel pros:
1) Proven durable commodity technology
2) Can burn biodiesel
3) Torque
Diesel cons:
1) Particulate emissions
2) US diesel fuel high-sulpur.
3) Not quite as efficient as hybrid ( but can he hybridized too )
dave
Dennis
dave
This is something new and it may take a little effort to find the right one.
Assuming you're not in California or New England.
It might not qualify as a "luxury sport sedan" off the lot.
But how about making a few "performance-enhancing" mods like the "Upsolute" chip?
You'll wind up with a ~$25K (GLS trim) vehicle that could perform and get 35-40 mpg on vegetable oil* (*if you ignore VW's warranty policies, otherwise burn petro). Whether it's awesome enough for you, well, you'll have to decide.
Hybrid and "luxury sport sedan" sounds like an oxymoron (for the time being at least).
So MB diesel might be the best bet .
Less expensive diesels (some of them fun and more-or-less sporty like the Mini Cooper) are available in Europe, but not here (other than VW). If MB is too expensive and you don't like VW, you're outta luck. Unless you'd want to look into importing something. But then, even if you could, who would service it?
Thanks for the info, I will look at the Passat TDI
What do you two think of VWs especially the TDIs ??
MidCow
A local dealer has promised me a Jetta GL wagon with stick shift and Electronic Skid Protection (ESP), for a decent price, when it arrives from Germany. You might want the more luxurious GLS trim in the Passat (alloy wheels, sunroof, Monsoon stereo). ESP adds about $300, maybe less, and you definitely should want that.
AFAIK the wagons are all made in Germany, sedans in Latin America, if that matters to you. Maybe it is not the same with Passats. The VIN number on made-in-Germany cars should begin with "WVW".
VW has had some quality problems in the past couple years (electric window motors among them), but seems to have addressed these. Their cars come with long warranties (4 years b2b, 12 years rust). They have a reputation for building "drivers'" cars. I did love the handling of the Jetta TDI I recently test-drove (but have never owned one). They are offered with a great package of safety features including head curtain air bags (standard), ABS (standard), and the available Electronic Skid Protection .
There's an awful lot of information on these forums about VW, Passats, TDIs, etc.
I'm reluctant to rehash any more (about emissions, etc.), but from what you've said so far, it sounds like the Passat TDI should at least be on your shopping list. The performance-boosting chip I mentioned is made by Upsolute (do a Google), costs maybe $300 (I think), and is said to offer a fairly significant boost in vehicle accelleration. One negative for me is that the Passat TDI only comes with automatic transmission in the USA. So you might prefer the way a manual Jetta drives, but I doubt it would be enough car for you if you're looking at Mercedes. None of these is a "sports" car, but the VW styling is more in the spirit of a Swiss Army watch, not the techno look of a Prius hybrid.
Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Car and Driver, etc. seem to love the Passat. Less roomy
than some luxury/near-luxury competition (Volvo etc.), but much less $$$, with terrific fuel economy in TDI.
Hybrid technology, using gasoline, diesel or hydrogen, will continue to evolve in the automotive industry, one step at a time. That’s the way things must evolve. To give this a perspective, does it make sense for automakers to develop a V12 as their first engine, and move down to four banger? Now, that would be going backwards, IMO.
With the limited hybrid offerings around, we have had an opportunity to see that the technology, while still in its infancy, is practical. In the very near future, a flurry of new vehicles will debut to appeal to a wider audience.
That is as large and luxurious a car as I would ever want for my family of four.
With sun roof, heated seats/mirrors/washers, automatic, air bags all over the place, and skid protection, it is still HALF the price of an E320, and a much better value than, say a Volvo V70
(our current family car).
For solo commuting, I'd prefer the Jetta TDI (even better fuel economy, and more fun to drive with manual tranny) at under $20K for a wagon in GL trim. In GLS, with leather, the sedan seems like a more expensive car than it is, and might even satisfy some people's "luxury sport sedan" definition after adding the Upsolute ship.