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Hybrids in the News
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Comments
Bummer, eh?
JOHN
Politics aside, I think that Hybrid technology and value is more than well on it's way to becoming a major player. I'm sure most of the companies are looking at the Prius (and others) and thinking "God, we need to jump on that bandwagon!" There are other alternatives, including hydrogen and fuel cell technology that should also be researched.
By Rich Smith
The outset of an epic competition for the mindshare of America's green auto buyers is just about the worst time Honda could have picked to allow questions about its engineering quality to emerge.
In all, Honda is recalling more than 1.1 million Accords, Acuras, Odyssey minivans, and Pilot and Acura SUVs. That's nearly 90% of the company's total annual U.S. sales for all of 2003 (1.35 million)!
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=longtermtests&loc_code=index&content_code=09611403
There's the source of your confusion.
Prius is *LESS* than a traditional automatic, not more.
Are you actually claiming that the Prius tranny COSTS less than the Camry's. To the MANUFACTURER.
From the Toyota Corporate site:
TOYOTA ENVIRONMENTAL UPDATES
Twenty-sixth issue, June, 2004
Toyota to participate in major demonstration of hydrogen in transportation
As part of a public/private partnership, Toyota will participate in an ambitious five-year project to demonstrate and validate advancements in hydrogen-based transportation infrastructure. The program will encompass up to 24 fueling stations in California, some of which are existing facilities, and others that will be constructed within the framework of the project. The stations will feature a range of hydrogen production and fueling approaches, including the use of renewable energy and the production of hydrogen from natural gas. Toyota, Honda and Nissan plan to assign up to a total of 65 fuel cell vehicles to the project, funded in part by The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). Led by Air Products, a leading producer of hydrogen, the program will include the participation of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, ConocoPhillips, the National Fuel Cell Research Center of the University of California, Irvine, and California's South Coast Air Quality Management District.
What the recall does reflect is that Honda no longer has the huge edge in quality it enjoyed in the past--the U.S. and Korea are closing the gap fast.
Only 15% fuel savings! Well, better than nothing and it will be effective for construction use by offering electric power at job sites.
GM is considering building a hybrid in China in order to be in the hybrid market.
http://www.newsday.com/business/columnists/ny-sstom0709c,0,498048- - - .column?coll=ny-business-columnists
Limited choices for repairs.
Why would you willingly pay for a covered service?
In other words, it means little to judge the current state of the market when that aspect won't be relevent until 3 years from now anyway.
And if you do feel the need to push that aspect, then the fact that a "full" hybrid is engineered to be more reliable than the traditional design becomes a discussion topic that cannot be ignored.
JOHN
My anecdotal experience is that hybrid owners that I know have had almost no required repairs to their vehicles.
I do not believe it is likely to have problems with the Toyota and Honda hybrids. Just my personal opinion.
The teaching process for the mechanics is no big deal at this point. In fact, there are a number that are quite well informed already.
So your implication that 3 years from now none will have a clue is nothing but gibberish.
Sorry to be blunt. But with so many new HSD vehicles planned over the next few years, it just doesn't make any sense that other mechanics wouldn't want in on the income that knowledge could provide.
JOHN
Why would you willingly pay for a covered service?
In other words, it means little to judge the current state of the market when that aspect won't be relevent until 3 years from now anyway.
And if you do feel the need to push that aspect, then the fact that a "full" hybrid is engineered to be more reliable than the traditional design becomes a discussion topic that cannot be ignored.
JOHN -end
Read the post I just quoted. Read my response to your post. Then read post 187. You must be drinking too much battery juice John.
I never implied that mechanics will have no knowledge in 3 years. YOU implied that all Prius were under warranty when you stated it makes no sense to go anywhere other than dealer. All of the Prius are NOT under warranty. Even for people making initial purchase it is wise to consider where service will be obtained when out of warranty.
Blunt is fine. It is your cluelessness that is difficult to deal with.
What aspect am I pushing? I posted a link to an article regarding hybrids in the hybrids in the news topic.
Gibberish? LOL.
So your implication that I meant "all" is incorrect.
JOHN
Let's back of the personal insults, agree to disagree, etc.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article- - _id=8274
Actually, there was a change. IT GOT WORSE!!!
So now they need to lift their fleet average by 28 percent to reach that original goal.
JOHN
The quote from the article is truly remarkable.
Over and over again we see comments about how misleading the "certification" numbers from the EPA are.
Yet now, they are being relied on as the only true reliable information source for MPG expectations.
Well, I have news for everyone. The EPA is the official authority that provides values for the sake of comparison, which are in no way representative of a real-world promise. The reason is that there are simply too many variables that affect actual performance. In fact, that's why there are 2 sets of numbers on the window-sticker, one specific for city & highway, and the other are ranges... because even the testing itself has constraints the prevent it from covering all the factors of influence for MPG.
In other words, don't believe anything without lots of real-world data... like an entire year of real-world driving from several different owners.
JOHN
Prius' 50kW motor can make 295 lbs-ft torque. 155 lb-ft torque from 70kW electric motor is very low.
"The engine is a version of the Escape's standard Duratec four adapted to the more efficient Atkinson cycle by closing the intake valve late, well after the compression stroke has begun. This increases the expansion ratio, which adds four-percent efficiency at a cost of lower torque."
Prius' 1.5L Atkinson cycle ICE is at least 15% more efficient than comparable 1.5L Otto cycle ICE. All I can say is that not all Atkinson cycle ICEs are created equal.
Dennis
Where?
I certainly haven't made any?
Increased reliability is what we've been discussing, not an infallible design.
It should last longer, not forever.
But like all things, it still has the potential to eventually break.
JOHN
Anyway, for the first time in over 20 years, I'm considering the FORD "Escape" because they said they would have them in stock and I wouldn't have to "order" one, and if I DID order one, then I could have any color I want. Ever try to order a color of Prius?
I'm glad you noticed this artificial shortage that is a colossolly stupid marketing strategy!
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short excerpt-
Australian television personality Shaun Murphy is about to finish his bizarre challenge. He's driven, ridden, flown and canoed his way 16,000 miles across America without stopping at a gas station.
Fueled by cow pies, garbage, sunshine, crawfish, wind, water, whisky and cooking oil, Murphy and his dog Sparky are set to finish the final leg of their cross-country road trip this week. Driving a stretch Hummer Limo powered by food....-end
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/mar01/hev.html
That article is 3.5 YEARS OLD!
The datestamp on the file copy I downloaded to my hard-drive says 3/11/2001.
Neither vehicle is accurately portrayed either anymore. The Corolla is a much larger car now. And not only is the Prius bigger, it is clearly more efficient.
Nice try, but that article requires lots of updates to be relevant to the market now.
JOHN
For many people, it means preparing for the future. And in that case, paying a little more to protect yourself against ever-climbing fuel prices is a wise choice.
Why is "cost savings" a factor?
That doesn't even make any sense for an objective stance. "Break Even" is far more appropriate.
JOHN