Hybrids in the News

backy · May 2005

Be sure you check with your dealer before you try that. Not all allow it. The one I ordered a Prius through last year did not. If I didn't take delivery of the car, it would go to the next person in line who wanted that color/package.

dewey · May 2005

Interesting!! You would think Toyota would have a nationwide policy regarding deposits? Such inconsistency among dealers can lead to some disgruntled customers who participated in such transactions. Why should one dealer accept and another not accept?

gagrice · May 2005

BTW, what happens when you need to drive more than 200 miles in a single day??

Simple, Take the Lexus, Suburban or Passat. Oh, and our Costco in La Mesa, CA has had two of the EV charging stations since it was built new.

None of the mentioned products for saving the environment are cost effective. Solar panels, Wind generators, EV's or hybrids. It all depends on your willingness to spend money to try and help the environment. You and a few others feel the hybrids are cost effective, I disagree. I think it is mostly show and very little actual benefit. Each person has to weigh their priorities and make their choices. Mine was to buy a diesel and use biodiesel when it becomes available.

backy · May 2005

I'm sorry, but I find this really humorous, in kind of a sad way. You are talking about ways to save the environment and you note that if you were to own an electric vehicle (for short distance travel) and need to go more than 200 miles, you would drive your Lexus, Suburban, or Passat.

Think about that for a minute.

Then you talk about the cost effectiveness of hybrids.

Think about that one too, for a minute.

Anyway, I do agree completely with your statement, "Each person has to weigh their priorities and make their choices."

PF_Flyer · May 2005

I know it's EASY to get sidetracked here, but let's try to stick to discussing current news items concerning hybrids, OK?

From Great Britain...

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/story.jsp?story=642355

Motorists who drive fuel-hungry BMWs, people carriers and Range Rovers face a five-fold increase in road tax under radical plans to combat Britain's spiralling greenhouse gas emissions...

the agency has said, ministers should also make the most energy-efficient cars tax free or even give motorists a £150 annual tax rebate as a reward for buying them.

maxhonda99 · May 2005

"Oh, and our Costco in La Mesa, CA has had two of the EV charging stations since it was built new. "

And how does that help the general population??

dewey · May 2005

For many this is not news. I am sure most members here have every detail of this article memorized.

Anyways here is a RX400H review!

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/greenwheels,view,Lexus.spy?artid=41625&pg=1

gagrice · May 2005

I'm sorry, but I find this really humorous

I have nothing against those that buy hybrids for whatever reason. What bothers me is they are so against other means of saving energy and keeping the air clean. It seems very intolerant. And I don't need to think a long time about which other vehicle I will drive. It will be the Passat TDI most of the time. It gets great mileage and is very nice to drive. Only the original 3 small hybrids get better mileage. I find it hard to believe that anyone that buys a hybrid that gets only 28 MPG combined would say negative things about someone that buys a vehicle that gets 33 MPG combined. I am using 16% less fossil fuel than the guy driving the HAH. I am using the cleanest diesel on the planet. What's the beef?

In wanting a vehicle for around town all I need is something that goes 35 miles at the most round trip. An EV would be perfect. My gripe with all the automakers is the fact that they developed those cars on my nickel then crushed them. If they were a total flop, I could understand. The truth is those that owned them loved them. To the point they tried to block them from being taken to the crusher. These vehicles did not get a lousy 50 MPG. They got 200 MPG equivalent. You are passionate about hybrids I am passionate about alternate fuels. I would buy an EV for my around town errands. I wouldn't give some leasing company $500 per month then have nothing to show for it after 3 years, as suggested.

If you have noticed the automakers gladly used the NiMH batteries WE developed in their hybrids.

This may be my next car. Just don't get in the way with your pokey RX400h or HAH cause they are real slow compared to this baby.

http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm

Look out 0-60 in 4.1 seconds with no ICE to slow it down. And no waiting in line at the gas station.

http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/DSC00232.JPG

gagrice · May 2005

I wonder why the V70 Volvo is targeted for the higher tax. If it is the same 2.4L engine sold here it is SULEV II rated and gets pretty decent mileage. They seem to be going after the GHG more than pollution in the UK.

dewey · May 2005

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/30/A01-197580.htm

molokai · May 2005

Agreed. I glides along at the Canadian border in electric mode for 30 min this past weekend. In front of me were cars just WASTING fuel. Talk about ridiculous!!!

molokai · May 2005

Thanks for that link. Very interesting. It was refreshing to be in Canada this past week where people there have much more common sense with the vehicles they drive. I saw mainly small Japanese cars and a few German diesels. Extremely few SUVs. Wish it were that way here. I had to laugh when someone with US plates had to fill up his Tahoe. When I left, the ticker was on $62(CAN) and climbing!! LOL

motownusa · May 2005

wonder why the V70 Volvo is targeted for the higher tax. If it is the same 2.4L engine sold here it is SULEV II rated and gets pretty decent mileage. They seem to be going after the GHG more than pollution in the UK.

I just returned from the UK after a one week visit. I noticed most of the cars are what would be considered compact or subcompact. Diesels are very popular over there as just about every maker offers diesel ( even Honda and Toyota). The diesel Accord CDT-i actually outsells the gasoline version, at least that is what I have been told. Btw, the British Accord looks exactly like the Acura TSX. Price of gas ( or petrol as Brits like to call it ) costs about 85 pence per Liter. That translates to almost $6.00 per gallon or almost three times what we yanks pay. Any engine bigger than 2.0L is considered a gas guzzler over there :P I saw plenty of Smart cars and other super subcompact over there. One mini car I liked was the Ford KA. Puny but looks cool. The only Toyotas I saw in the UK was two 2nd genaration Prius and one Avensis. It seems Hondas are more popular there than Toyotas.

dewey · May 2005

Molokai,

I see so many hybrids and diesels in my neighborhood in Toronto. BUT once you travel beyond the city you will start to see far more trucks including Tahoes with Canadian plates . And there are plenty of diesels in our country-side, diesels with John Deere logos.

gagrice · May 2005

Hondas are more popular there than Toyotas

That probably explains the new diesel factory that Honda is setting up in the UK. Also why VW builds a 2.0L TDI for the British. I find the 2.0L has more than enough power for me. Jumps from 60-90 MPH quicker than our LS400.

I would think that the Prius would be popular over there with $6 gas. Did you see any Insights? Does the UK have high speed roadways where sustained high speeds are used?

dewey · May 2005

High gas taxes and super high prices at the pump! What better way to influence consumer choice?

When I visited the UK during 1998, I was amazed that so many would actually buy a BMW 518i or a MB E180. Try selling these vehicles in North America. Good luck!!

molokai · May 2005

I was in the province of Quebec, so maybe it's a little different there. I was in Montreal and drove up to Mont-Tremblant (near St. Jovite). Even in the countryside there were few SUVs. I did not see ONE hybrid!!! Oh... one last thing. The Canadians have caught the US driving bug. Here are the symptons, driving too closely, changing lanes without signaling. Overall, they drive better than Americans!. If I could find work there, I'd move. Much more zen society!

gagrice · May 2005

If I could find work there, I'd move. Much more zen society!

Lower pay and higher taxes. It drove my cousins that were born and raised in Toronto to move to the USA and seek our citizenship. No where is perfect, even Hawaii.

gagrice · May 2005

Hybrids are scorching with sales and there is nothing that Gary can do to stop it!!

Nothing could stop PT Barnum and his circus either. I like it the sign of a good economy when people have plenty of money for excesses.

larsb · May 2005

All the VW fans who are proud that VW had hung their hat on "diesel" over hybrids watch out.

"Car News briefs: Volkswagen may offer Jetta hybrid;

Posted Date: 5/31/05
MUNICH, Germany -- Volkswagen AG may introduce a hybrid-powered Jetta in the United States in two years.

A VW spokesman confirmed that VW is considering a so-called mild hybrid vehicle. A mild hybrid uses an electric motor to assist a gasoline-powered engine, but the motor alone does not drive the vehicle. The Honda Civic Hybrid is an example.

VW did not forecast sales volumes or discuss the costs. The company said it has not decided which supplier would provide the technology."

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102479

PF_Flyer · May 2005

This personal stuff stops NOW and we stick to the subject of sharing news items about hybrids. This nonsense is going on in virtually every topic and is getting VERY old. We understand that you disagree with each other. We also understand that no matter how many times you take potshots at each other, the other guy is NOT going to see things your way. So it's time to drop the personal comments and stick to the subjects please.

Thank you for your cooperation on this.

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Mazda Mania Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

dewey · May 2005

"A VW spokesman confirmed that VW is considering a so-called mild hybrid vehicle"

I guess that explains why Porsche is having hybrid negotiations with VW?

larsb · May 2005

This one was news to me - anyone heard of this before?

http://www.gizmag.com/go/1666/

larsb · May 2005

"Ministerial Rovers and Jaguars are being replaced with the Toyota Prius, a "hybrid" car runs on both a petrol and an electric engine the two working in tandem."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=642854

john1701a · May 2005

The fact that traditional (engine-only) designs are quickly losing favor is the very reason I am back. Those non-constructive arguments of the past will hopefully just be a sour memory now... especially since many of the negative claims about hybrid technology are proving to be false.

It's an interesting new world, where automakers are facing competition with themselves. Accord, Civic, Escape, Highlander, and RX400 each have both traditional & hybrid configurations changes everything. Someday you'll have the choice of engine size for a vehicle model, perhaps battery size/type too. In the meantime, it's interesting to watch how quiet those with the traditional versions of vehicles are becoming. They know that their days of being in the spotlight are over.

So naturally, I'm thrilled to hear about a possible hybrid version of Jetta. That's another automaker joining in on the newer technology. The upcoming Altima will be yet another. But the ultimate is the fact that the #1 selling car in the US, the Toyota Camry, will be available as a hybrid in a little bit more than a year from now.

It's over. Gas is expensive and reducing smog-related emissions is becoming a higher priority.

In just a few months, some of us (including me) will be celebrating their fifth anniversary of owning a hybrid. It will be increasing more difficult to deny the growing reports of positive long-term ownership experiences. And of course, the ultimate spite is pointing out how rapidly improvements are being made to the hybrid models being offered. It only gets better from here. Ha!

JOHN

dewey · May 2005

How about hybrid news? And news is not only defined as positive. Once you cleanse this site from all negative news, this forum will no longer be about news. It becomes a mere cheerleading site with as much objectivity as a marketing ad!

molokai · May 2005

http://www.investors.com/breakingnews.asp?journalid=27810265

molokai · May 2005

http://www.autoremarketing.com/ar/news/story.html?id=3571

larsb · May 2005

I think this forum is intended to be used for both "hard news" and ALSO for "discussions related to said news." Not merely "here's some news, read this !!" News without comment is just WAY too boring.....

molokai · May 2005

Agreed. What's the sense about posting news if you can't talk about it!!!

dewey · May 2005

"News without comment is just WAY too boring..... "

ABSOLUTELY AGREE! But this forum appears to have an overwhelming thirst for positive commentary and a thin-skinned intolerance towards any negative comments.

Bottom Line: The most informative auto forums are skeptically agnostic by nature! All comments that are disagreeable should be challenged with facts and not treated as a personal attack!!!

molokai · May 2005

Yes... I wonder who you're referring to? The oil barron from Alaska??

backy · May 2005

No one in particular. But as they say, "if the shoe fits...".

xcel · May 2005

Hi John1701a:

The fact that traditional (engine-only) designs are quickly losing favor

It's interesting to watch how quiet those with the traditional versions of vehicles are becoming

They know that their days of being in the spotlight are over

You are still and will always be my all-time favorite Go Team Hybrid - Go Team Hybrid - Ra Ra

Would you pay ~ $3,000 less for a car that receives 2.4 mpg less then your Prius II, has far longer range between fill-ups, is larger, has much better performance, is safer, has even lower emissions, and is by far, more luxurious?

http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/595-pzev-accord.html

The hybrid powers that be should hope to keep this news buried for as long as humanly possible Or at least until a Euro V/EPA Tier II-Bin3 through 5 speced - US Accords w/ an iCDTi arrives here in the states in a few years

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

backy · May 2005

First John, now xcel. What is this, Reunion Week on the Edmunds.com hybrid discussions?

backy · May 2005

Actually, xcel did achieve pretty close mpg to the 160 hp 4-cylinder Accord with the 255 hp V6 HAH, although not over the same course and conditions. Perhaps he will tell us about it.

larsb · May 2005

The HAH "can do" that too Gary - owners are reporting 40+ MPG highway runs in recent days.

Break-in done, warmer temps, driver education - seems like SOMEBODY around here predicted this turn of events back in December......who WAS that masked man?

xcel · May 2005

Hi Backy:

Long time no hear. How is that new Hyundai doing? Do you still think it was a better overall value then the Prius II you were considering at $21K + big ones a year or so ago? I am in the camp that thinks you chose the right path for your situation. On the other side of the coin, the Prius II drivers are sitting on a real nice resale right now.

Actually, xcel did achieve pretty close mpg to the 160 hp 4-cylinder Accord with the 255 hp V6 HAH, although not over the same course and conditions. Perhaps he will tell us about it.

Are you speaking about the pic in the Larsb reply - below? I cannot link the details here because the thought police might arrest me. Why dont you link it for us?

We had all better get back on topic.

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

xcel · May 2005

Hi Larsb:

Predicted this turn of events? How about Just do it term of events?

GreenAndBlues AH in semi-decent temps and conditions when coming home from a Hybrid Group meet earlier this spring:

If only I had another 150 or so more miles

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

gagrice · May 2005

who WAS that masked man?

I remember. Looks like the HAH could get in the 30s overall if it weren't for a few street racers in the field.

xcel · May 2005

Hi Molekai:

I wonder what a hypermiler would get in the Prius. I don't even have to try and I get close to 50 this time of year in my Prius. Sure beats driving with 50 lbs of pressure in my tires.

The only world class hypermiler I know that owns a Prius II hit something like 86 mpg over 950 + miles but his average speed was something like 32 - 34 mph IIRC? If one were traveling at a 62.5 mph average, I dont know but I bet you might achieve the lowly John1701a numbers possibly? When the speeds come up, the FE tanks as do most Toyotas I have owned and driven

or when I slowed down a bit with a touch heavier Chicago area - Interstate traffic

When we finally see mid-70 degree temps in and around the city of Chicago with little to no traffic, look out. We will see the higher temperatures for sure but little to no traffic? Only on an early Sunday morning after a Cubs World Series Win

The nice thing about it is that an I am sitting in my heated - power - leather seats (for those cold mornings), driving with the sunroof open in the heavier traffic jams on the few nice days we have in this locale, and all the while listening to XM Satellite radio. You just cant beat that with a stick.

50 #s in a non-hybrid Accords Michelins is more comfortable and better handling at speed then 42 - 44 #s in a John1701a prepped Prius II, in my experience.

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

molokai · May 2005

I'd never be able to achieve such numbers with my driving style and I have no intention of changing. Most Accord owners I know get decent mileage, but nothing close to my Prius. I also have a lot more content than a standard Accord. My favorite feature.... most recently gliding for thirty minutes at the Canadian border. Can't do that in a non hybrid Accord. I also insist on VSC which isn't even offered in an Accord. When they offer it in the HAH, I'll definitely consider it. Mileage is nice, but the HAH power and comfort are worth the tradeoff in mileage.

molokai · May 2005

478 mile drive back from Canada. 75-80 on the NYS Thruway and 65 on some secondary roads. Some traffic,, averaged 48.1. Not bad! Can you do that in your Accord? If so, I wonder what the trick is? Seriously!

xcel · May 2005

Hi Molekai:

I'd never be able to achieve such numbers with my driving style and I have no intention of changing.

I am actually sorry to hear this for the sake of all hybrid and non-hybrid owners alike

I also have a lot more content than a standard Accord.

Not a PZEV based - EX-L w/ Auto and NAVI at $23,200 you dont.

I also insist on VSC which isn't even offered in an Accord.

I actually insisted on one of the best all-around automobile crash ratings which is not in the cards for the Prius II unfortunately

Mileage is nice, but the HAH power and comfort are worth the tradeoff in mileage.

Are you defending the AH? I like it too. Comfort wise, the AH and the EX-L are twins. Plus or minus a few items. Performance wise, the AH is a smoking hoot! I hope you get the opportunity to drive an AH sometime as they are like an HCH, and both an I4 and V6 Accord all rolled up into one!

478 mile drive back from Canada. 75-80 on the NYS Thruway and 65 on some secondary roads. Some traffic,, averaged 48.1. Not bad! Can you do that in your Accord? If so, I wonder what the trick is? Seriously!

And your average speed was what? If you say it was 70 - 75 mph, I cant wait for you to take a pic of your garage with the Prius II run through the back of it and sitting in your neighbors swimming pool

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

molokai · May 2005

I do like the HAH but I want hatch versatility and skid control. I also want bluetooth and smart key. Once the HAH has this, I'm getting one. Was also considering the GS hybrid, but it may be too pricey. As far as crash worthiness is concerned, the Prius has proven itself in many crash tests. I look at the European test in particular as they are more stringent than the American tests. Haven't seen anything from the IIHS yet, but that is also a good benchmark to use. Would consider the RH, but they're not discounting them yet. The RH is a very safe vehicle. Much more so than an Accord.

gagrice · May 2005

listening to XM Satellite radio

Don't you feel a bit guilty driving around in all that luxury? You didn't disappoint me with that mileage. I can only envy that kind of skill. Have fun in your new car... Gary

xcel · May 2005

Hi Molokai:

I chose the safer and larger Accord vs. the Prius II myself. As for amenities, BT and SS did not mean as much to me as powered - heated - leather seats, tilt-telescopic steering - powered sunroof, dual-auto-climate, best NAVI in the automobile business, and the 120 W AM/FM/6-CD in dash changer w/ XM Satellite. The fact that it is larger, has higher performance, includes more luxury based amenities, has even lower emissions, and is a less expensive automobile just made that much more sense to me is all?

In terms of the RXh, the RX330s safety ratings were just a tad behind that of our MDX and it was a much smaller automobile. I havent seen the crash ratings on the RXh yet but am looking forward to the full gamut as soon as they are available. Especially given the knee air-bags as that is a neat safety feature.

Gagrice, you have been driving around in an LS for over 15 years, right? I believe I had just sold my Chevrolet Chevette a short period before that LOL! Talk about the lap of luxury

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

PF_Flyer · May 2005

Nobody said you can't discuss the news, but this CONSTANTLY turns back to the same people making comments about each other and trying to get under each other's skin. THAT's what has to stop. The topic also is NOT about mileages you're getting and the performance of your vehicles. There are other topics on the board for that. Please use them.

I'm TRYING to give you guys a chance to control yourselves, but it seems that you can't. Let's put a little effort into it and not rise to the bair once in a while OK?

I'm going back over the latest stretch of posts and taking down all the off topic personal stuff. Please don't continue this behavior!

PF Flyer
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News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Mazda Mania Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

falconone · May 2005

If your NAV is the same as the one in my friend's new RL, then it truly is the best in the business. I believe the Prius has a 5 star safey rating for the driver. The Honda's are nice but their braking has little to be desired. I was looking at the new TL and it stopped from 60 in 140 feet. I hope the Accord is a little better than that.

falconone · May 2005

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=642854

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