Hybrids in the News

jprice · June 2005

That is interesting. Seems there is a difference of studies. Toyota says the Prius is 32% efficient. They claim their FCHV fuel cell vehicle is 50% Well to Wheel efficient. They are shooting for 60%.

Thanks, that's a very interesting article from Toyota (http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/special/fchv/fchv_1.html). However, you used the tank-to-wheel figures, not the well-to-wheel; the overall efficiency (well-to-tank x tank-to-wheel) figures are: gas, 14%; Prius, 28 %, Hydrogen FCV, 22 %, and Hydrogen FCHV, 29 % They are shooting for 42% overall with the FCHV. Still danged impressive, though I wonder at their projected well-to-tank efficiency of 70% for the target FCHV. Going to take some breakthroughs in hydrogen production.

jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 5500 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.5MPG

larsb · June 2005

"Hyperbolic hybrid fever notches up another degree: GMC's Graphyte concept hybrid SUV"

Published Date: 6/27/05

Addressing environmental and fuel-consumption concerns doesnt have to mean sacrificing comfort,utility and performance. Case in point: the GMC Graphyte concept car we drove recently, a vision of hybrid-powered SUVs for the near future that gets much better fuel economy without surrendering anything in seating capacity, towing ability or creature comforts.

Yes, Virginia, clean SUVs are a reality, no matter what your playmates in the pristine national wilderness may tell you. The more extreme advocates of green automotive technology have developed a shibboleth by which we may know them: If all the SUVs out there were replaced with hybrids like the Toyota Prius, then... That turn of phrase marks the Utopian visionaries who would insist we all drive the type of vehicle the speaker decrees best. Whether the speakers primary concern is the effect on global warming or national dependence on imported oil, weve got news for these automotive puritans: It aint gonna happen. Americans can be motivated to trade their gas hogs for cleaner machines, but they wont give up their own lifestyle priorities to do so."

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102606

dewey · June 2005

Based on WSJ.com article below:

Toyota seeks to achieve its 15 percent global market share with the help of its hybrid strategy. Toyota CEO wants to have a car that can go from US coast to coast with one tank full of gas.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111988621712570518,00.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

larsb · June 2005

Looks like for the next few years we will still have hybrid car tax incentives:

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/cgi-bin/news/newsbrief.plx?id=2239947490&fa=1

molokai · June 2005

http://tinyurl.com/7n35e

Sylvia · June 2005

Wow! Congrats gagrice! Who knew?

Anyway... I'm glad we have someone representing the Sierra hybrid. To make sure it doesn't get lost in the hybrid shuffle, all the Sierra posts have been moved to a discussion GMC Sierra Hybrid

Congrats again!

gagrice · June 2005

Thank you Sylvia, I guess some of these guys knew all along I would come around.

larsb · June 2005

21 trims available today in all the various Hybrid model cars...Hmmm:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/29/136225.html

larsb · June 2005

VW and Mercedes to have Hybrids for sale in 2006:

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/business/article_1025509.php/German_carmakers_slow_in_w- aking-up_to_hybrid_technology

larsb · June 2005

Why does New Zealand get the cool stuff first?

http://www.car.co.nz/newsevents.asp?articleid=8314

larsb · June 2005

Hydraulic Hybrid system - a novel and interesting technology:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0506/29/B08-231001.htm

larsb · June 2005

"Do you think they'd like getting 250 miles per gallon?" demanded Furia, chief executive of Bellevue-based AFS Trinity Power Corp. "Heck(sic), yes! They'd go to the gas station every two months!"

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/230461_flywheel29.html

larsb · June 2005

Who knew about this?

http://info.detnews.com/autosdb/index.cfm?action=details&picture_id=215

yerth10 · June 2005

We know that Electricity can be stored in
Battery, Capacitor, Flywheel
is there any other device in which we can store electricity.

A whole new industry of electricity storage is coming up.

I wish a Plugin Hybrid with just 20 mile range comes up and which can cost just 4K for conversion.

dewey · June 2005

Hybrids makes more sense in Europe than in this continent. Economically speaking(gas prices)

stevedebi · June 2005

"Hybrids makes more sense in Europe than in this continent. Economically speaking(gas prices)"

Except that over there they use diesel engines, which increases the average MPG (or KPL, if you wish), so that hybrids are not as cost efficient compared to most vehicles.

dewey · June 2005

True and due to tax incentives diesel is cheaper than gasoline in most European countries.

Still when compared to gasoline engines (still over 50% of the European market), hybrid makes economic sense . Especially when you compare US/European gas prices.

stevedebi · June 2005

" Still when compared to gasoline engines (still over 50% of the European market), hybrid makes economic sense . Especially when you compare US/European gas prices."

Yes, but in addition to diesel being popular, the vehicles are smaller over there and generally already get good gas mileage. This decreases the advantages that the Prius may hold. To be really popular, the Prius would need an even smaller engine that boosted MPG to around 70 or so. Then you would see a lot more interest.

gagrice · June 2005

What does a Prius cost in the UK? Car prices are very high. A Jag in the UK is more expensive than in the US. And as has been mentioned the Prius has a lot of competition for mileage that they don't have in the USA, and especially the biggest car buying state CA. Plus the Prius does not handle like European cars. So I don't think you will see them selling as they do here.

falconone · June 2005

The Prius will never be well embraced in Europe because so many other cars have better performance, are cheaper and run on diesel. If I lived in Germany, I'd own a 3 series for sure. I've driven on the Autobahn and believe me, you don't want a Prius unless you're happy tooling along at 85.

dewey · June 2005

Why should USA be different from Europe?

Smaller cars are the hottest auto segment in the USA. Many companies are announcing new small econo models for USA. There are alot of announcements about new upcoming diesels from German marques.

In 5 years USA will start to resemble Europe in terms of having a wide selection of small cars and diesels .

If hybrids cannot compete in Europe now, how will hybrids compete in a USA with a variety of fuel efficient vehicles?

backy · June 2005

General Motors (GM) was named most often as the automaker doing the worst job developing energy-efficient vehicles, and Toyota (TM) was named most often as doing the best job in a survey earlier this month by Peter D. Hart Research Associates for GM.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-29-car-poll-usat_x.htm

larsb · June 2005

Gary, you remember a few months ago we had this big discussion about the Crown Vics versus the Escape Hybrids for use as cabs in SanFran? New york is there now:

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-green-taxis,0,4149988.story?c- oll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Also, here is a quote from one of the SF cab company managers:

"In San Francisco, a pair of companies added 15 hybrid Ford Escapes to the city's fleet of 1,400 taxis in February. The small SUVs have an in-town fuel efficiency rating of 36 miles to the gallon, compared with 18 for the Crown Victoria -- an important advantage at a time of rising gas prices.

Yellow Cab Cooperative of San Francisco owns 10 of the hybrids. The company's general manager, Hal Mellegard, said customers seem to like them, but he is waiting to see how the vehicles hold up on the city's famous hills. "

larsb · June 2005

Diesel/Electric Range Rover to hit the roads in 2009. Look at the last paragraph in the story....:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Motoring/01Jul2005_motor94.php

larsb · July 2005

"Hybrid Sales Increase in June from May; Highlander Off to Strong Start 1 July 2005

Assisted by the first sales of the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, June posted the second-highest levels of hybrid sales yet, with 19,223 units sold. This is behind only April 2005, with its 20,974 units. For the first six months of 2005, hybrid sales rose to 92,558, some 2.5 times the 36,276 sold during the first six months of 2004.

The Highlander Hybrid sprang to second place among all hybrids sold, with 2,869 units posted during its first month. Toyotas Prius continued its market-leading sales trajectory, with 9,622 cars sold. The Lexus RX400h hybrid came in with 2,605 units sold. Combined, Toyotas hybrids accounted for 79% of the hybrids sold in June, with the Prius alone accounting for 50% of that."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/07/hybrid_sales_in.html#more

falconone · July 2005

It looks like Lexus will reach their goal of 12,000 units. At least the supply problem is not like it was initially for the Prius.

yerth10 · July 2005

I guess the target for RX400h - 20,000 units and for HH - 30,000 units for 2005.

yerth10 · July 2005

Based on 1st Half sales of 92,558, we can say that the annual sales this year will be 185,000. But base on 2nd Quarter sales of around 55,000 unit, the annualized sale will be somewhere around 200,000 units.

Thats great.

yerth10 · July 2005

With the Employee Discount, GM's Truck sales have increased sharply.
After all, a $3,000 savings in upfront cost is more attractive than
the saving same amount over a period of 12-15 years in a Hybrid vehicle.

And now Chrysler & Ford are set to join. We got to see how hybrids
are progressing.

May be this is an opportunity for Honda to sell its Civic-2006 LX in $17,000 - $18,000 range without adding the extras.

falconone · July 2005

The really don't have to give incentives to sell hybrids. It's the law of supply and demand and this deal is really working well for GM. Now they're selling the cars at the prices they SHOULD be to begin with. That won't get me in the showroom, except I still like the deal on the Pontiac GTO.

railroadjames · July 2005

Isn't anyone wondering what "The Employees" get now that everyone else gets THEIR DEAL. If I were an employee I know I'd be a bit resentfull of "My Deal" being everyone's deal. Seems to me G.M., Chrysler, and Ford are all trying to stick their thumbs in the dikes of stagnant sales. Also, is the new deal really the same as what the employees get. I had a friend who said it was NOT the same but in name only. Hmmmmm! Next thing we'll be seeing is free vacations and lottery tickets and finally the kitchen sink...make that a scooter to save on gas since the vehicle will probaby be a thirsty V6 or V8.
Railroadjames

falconone · July 2005

I am quite certain the Chairman doesn't even have to pay for his car, but they do use that in their advertising. Whatever you think of it, it is selling lots of cars for them. Why? Most people like the idea of not having to haggle. I bet they will adopt this policy full time! Certainly cheapens their cars and makes the used cars lose their value as well.

railroadjames · July 2005

Well, if the dealers are selling at what the "Big 3" dictate ya gotta wonder what kind of profit margins they are pulling down. Then there's one more point....When the profit thins the dealer has got to thin the offering on the trade-in. There in lies the edge to the dealer. They give you less and you know what that means. You still end up paying more. It's not unusual for a dealer to give you only about 60% of wholesale on a trade-in. Less if it's a gas hog.
railroadjames

P.S. I always advocate selling your own car after cleaning it up and spending a few bucks on ads. You come out several hundred dollars ahead, if not thousands. It's worth the effort. I know. I've done it.

molokai · July 2005

Great news!

http://tinyurl.com/bv9n2

gagrice · July 2005

Honda also developed a more powerful, fuel-efficient hybrid system that would enable its gasoline-electric vehicles to run solely on the electric motor at low cruising speeds for the first time, like Toyota Motor's popular Prius sedan.

If the new Civic has the looks to go with the new drive train it could be a big winner for Honda.

mirth · July 2005

Well, if the dealers are selling at what the "Big 3" dictate ya gotta wonder what kind of profit margins they are pulling down.

Actually, there was an interview recently with the CEO of one of the big dealer corps (Autonation maybe?) and he stated that their domestic dealers were just as profitable as their import dealers. Basically, it's the manfacturers taking the hit because they provide the incentives.

Now, with the GM employee pricing scheme, the dealers are taking a hit profit-wise. Nobody is complaining now because of the massive sales volume increase, but I bet they will if GM tries to extend it too long.

railroadjames · July 2005

Like I said....Dealers have only one control.....The Trade-In. If there is one. The car buyer should understand this, hopefully.
Am I the only one who sees this new scheme or ploy as a feebled attempt of a band-aid solution to a problem that's not going to go away very soon or not at all.
Seems amazing that the auto industry is so dependent on the rise & fall of fuel prices. Maybe the word is fragile. Scary ain't it?
Railroadjames

carsareus · July 2005

All the hybrids are going to sell out, but each manufacturer is only making a small amount compared to their gas counterpart. Look at this article to see how much gas could be saved if all lexus/ toyota gas counterparts were made into hybrids.

http://www.carlist.com/autonews/2005_hybrids.html

mirth · July 2005

Am I the only one who sees this new scheme or ploy as a feebled attempt of a band-aid solution to a problem that's not going to go away very soon or not at all.

I agree if GM continues the program indefinitely or just reverts to massive incentives. However, if this is a segway into bringing down the MSRP's of their upcoming 2006 models to reality levels, then it could end up being a good move.

larsb · July 2005

These companies ROCK !!!:

"The green-car movement has caught on elsewhere, too. Hyperion, a software company based in Santa Clara, Calif., committed $1 million a year toward the purchases of hybrids, offering employees $5,000 each.

Since the Drive Clean to Drive Change program began in November, about 50 employees have taken advantage of it, said Phyllis Davidson, executive communications director, who was one of the first employees to participate.

"It's purely to help keep the worse kinds of cars off the road," said Davidson, reporting the company's CEO also has traded for a hybrid.

Outdoor-apparel firm Timberland in New Hampshire is offering $3,000 toward hybrid purchases to any of its 6,000 employees who have worked at the company two years or more. Four employees have taken advantage of the program, which was introduced at the end of 2004."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002357486_ecocars05.html

larsb · July 2005

Good comparo between a modern diesel and the Prius:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3334524a2021,00.html

molokai · July 2005

I hope they bring the A Class here to the states. Sounds like a great car.

yerth10 · July 2005

Ford launches Employee Discount, those who are planning to buy an Escape-Hybrid, please ask for big discount.

Honda has given specs for Civic-Hybrid 2006, seems its 5% more efficient, which means it should be giving 52 MPG.
I hope it comes in hatchback version also. Prius has 16 cubic feet of space (same as in Camry, Accord, Altima).

If its dubbed as mid-size sedan equivalent, then it will give a good competition to Prius. Will be better if it comes in LX version at 18K.

There is other news about a Chinese company planning to launch a hybrid. If the Japanese dont sell at an economic rate, the Chinese will grab the market.

yerth10 · July 2005

Is there any news about the number of hybrid vehicles sold worldwide.

gagrice · July 2005

I believe the Mustang GT and Hybrid Escape are excluded in the promotion.

Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its "Ford Family Plan" will let all customers buy most of its 2005 models at the employee rate beginning Wednesday. The promotion excludes the Ford Mustang, GT and the Escape hybrid. It also will run through Aug. 1.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/auto_incentives;_ylt=An0ZNeyOrenl57juseqPeekDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBi- MW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

molokai · July 2005

http://tinyurl.com/87xgd

dewey · July 2005

Majority of consumers are hesitant about buying complex hybrids from Toyota and Honda, how many do you think will line up to buy a hybrid version of a Chery Alado(Chinese car)?.

molokai · July 2005

I don't think consumers are wary of the complexity as evidenced by the long waiting lists. Let's face it, most cars today are highly, highly complex machines. Would I by a Chinese hybrid? If it were cheap enough and if there was an extensive dealer network to stand behind it. Will it happen? I doubt it.

larsb · July 2005

New Civic Hybrid to gain about 3 MPG over current version:

"Still, Boyd said, the 2006 Civic Hybrid will achieve a 3 mpg gain vs. the 2005 model. The 2005 Civic Hybrid gets 47 to 48 mpg in city driving and 47 to 48 mpg on the highway when equipped with an automatic transmission, according to the government's www. fueleconomy.gov Web site.

That means the 2006 version ``will be 50 or better for both city and highway,'' Boyd said.

``In the real world, we'll be very competitive'' with Prius, he said."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/12064294.htm

larsb · July 2005

How can such a big magazine as Business Week make such a boo-boo?

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2005/tc2005077_1015_tc024.htm?campaign_i- d=topStories_ssi_5

"Q: How much more do hybrids cost?
A: J.D. Power says so far this year, the hybrid version of the Toyota Camry has been selling for $23,510, vs. $20,575 for a conventional Camry. The hybrid Honda Civic has been going for $20,080, $4,270 more than a conventional Civic. And the hybrid Honda Accord for $30,786 -- $9,138 more than a conventional Accord. Ford's hybrid Ford Escape costs $30,178, $8,530 more than a conventional model. Of course, hybrid prices are likely to come down as sales rise and competition heats up. "

Hybrids in the News

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