Hybrids in the News

molokai · July 2005

I've even seen car rags make similar mistakes. Makes you really wonder, doesn't it?

backy · July 2005

Was it Business Week's boo-boo, or JD Power's boo-boo?

There were also some less-obvious errors (of reasoning) in the article. Hybrid models of the Accord and Escape were compared to (based on price) 4-cylinder variants that, at least in the case of the Accord, have nowhere near the equipment of the hybrid car.

mirth · July 2005

Not only that, but where the heck did they get those exact figures - $23,510 for a "hybrid Camry"? Bizarre.

stevedebi · July 2005

I suppose we should be glad they didn't mention the "non hybrid Prius", at who-knows-what price...

carsareus · July 2005

Lexus has a good thing going for them in their new ad campaign talking about the RX 400h. The idea of the performance hybrid is nothing short of genius. this is the perfect way to attract the person who would get a hybrid, but she does not want to get caught in a snowy parking space in the middle of January. If only American companies could take advantage of this and make their new luxury muscle cars (300, CTS, ...) a little more hybrid. On top of the Emplyee Discount For Everyone a new move towards greener preformance cars could permanerntly put them back on the map. For the latest hybrid new check out

link title

stevedebi · July 2005

"If only American companies could take advantage of this and make their new luxury muscle cars (300, CTS, ...) a little more hybrid."

A little more hybrid ... is that like a little more pregnant?

So, they should add 5-6K to the already high price of the vehicle, plus introduce new technology to a solid selling platform (currently based on known and established technology). Sounds like suicide for GM and DC to me.

Then again, how many people care if a car is 56K instead of 50K, if they can afford h 1/2 of a hundred grand?

However, the enviros must be turning over in their graves at the use of hybrid technology to increase power rather than reduce environmental pollution...

Uh, OK, they are not dead, maybe they are having heart attacks over the issue... :sick:

stevewa · July 2005

The thing is, you can give the vehicle more power, increase efficiency AND reduce emissions. The Lexus does exactly that.

If we could reduce the fuel consumption of every SUV on the road by only 5 or 10 percent it'd make a huge difference in overall consumption.

gagrice · July 2005

The thing is, you can give the vehicle more power, increase efficiency AND reduce emissions. The Lexus does exactly that.

The question is, does the RX400h reduce overall emissions? From manufacturing to EOL. The Prius accomplishes reduction in some areas and increases in other's such as PM (particulate matter) over the life cycle of the vehicle. The much bigger RX400h may not have a positive overall reduction in pollution, was the point being made. Do you have any Life Cycle Analysis to indicate otherwise. From the only study I have found by Toyota, it would lead me to believe the RX hybrid may have a negative impact on OUR environment.

backy · July 2005

According to the chart, the Prius has lower overall airborne lifetime emissions--roughly 15% lower--when you add up all the categories for gas cars vs. Prius. So this chart doesn't support the hypothesis that the RX may have a negative impact on our environment, and in fact it supports the opposite hypothesis.

toyotaken · July 2005

Adding to the last post. The RX, HH, and Prius are all classified as PZEV or Partial Zero Emissions Vehicles. This indicates that they have the emissions level of SULEV but with 10years or 150,000 miles of warranty protection for all emissions related components. SULEV have 1/100 the emissions of ULEV and 1/1000 of the emissions of the LEV that is the norm for many vehicles now, and certainly the norm for almost any Truck or SUV on the road.

Ken

gagrice · July 2005

How can you compare the Prius to the RX400h? First off the Prius gets much better fuel mileage than the comparable non-hybrid. This is not the case with the RX400h. At best people are getting only 15% better mileage with the RX400h over the RX330. If you look at the chart you will see the payoff does not come until late in the life of the Prius. In the case of PM it never gets better than the non-hybrid. The RH is bound to produce more pollution in manufacturing than a Prius. It has more battery & electric motors that are big polluters. How can you surmise from this that the PM (smog producers) will not be higher in the RH than the RX330 over the 150k mile life cycle of the two? For people like myself that do not put many miles on a car over it's life the non-hybrid is going to be less polluting. A low mileage Prius will in fact have put out more NOx in it's life than a comparable non hybrid. The environmentalists I have followed are re-thinking this hybrid situation and concluding the only way they make good environmental sense is to be plug-in hybrids. When you can get the mileage to 100 + MPG they will be worthwhile in the whole scheme of things.

backy · July 2005

You were the one that tried to relate a chart on the Prius to the RX400h. You are trying to use this chart that has nothing to do with the RX400h to demonstrate that it will be more polluting over its life than comparable SUVs. That is really reaching, IMO. First, why not compare apples-to-apples with the RX400h--that is, compare it to SUVs of comparable power and performance? Those would be V8 SUVs, and the RX400h gets far better fuel economy than those--more like 100% better (I have posted the news items on this before here, I can do it again if you want). What does that mean for the relative pollution? Since I don't know how the RX400h and its components are manufactured, I won't make any assumptions on how much pollution is produced from the manufacturing process. Do you have some data on the manufacturing process for the RX400h compared to that of V8 SUVs, related to pollution? Also, not everyone drives the low miles you do. When making sweeping generalizations like this, it's faulty logic to back them up with exceptions. As for hybrids not being worthwhile unless they get 100+ mpg, I notice the lack of a 100+ mpg hybrid did not stop you from buying one. Which was an interesting choice, BTW--to buy a brand-new truck for occasional use, when a used truck would have been much cheaper and would have added zero incremental emissions for the manufacturing process. And a hybrid truck at that--which, following your your reasoning, would have higher emissions in its lifetime than even a new conventional-engine truck, right?

gagrice · July 2005

And a hybrid truck at that--which, following your your reasoning, would have higher emissions in its lifetime than even a new conventional-engine truck, right?

You make some legitimate points. I don't have any data that shows the relative pollution between an RX400h and the RX330. Those being the closest matches. I know you would like to compare it to a big V8 Land Rover. That it not a good comparison as the RH is very limited in it's off road ability, that the LR excels in. Add to that from this Forum I would guess that at least half of the people that bought the RX400h traded in an RX300. I used the Prius chart as the only LCA comparing hybrid to non-hybrid vehicles. My point being that if you multiply those figures by the amount difference between the Prius & RX400h you should get a fair analysis. That is left up to the viewer to decide. It is clear that the Prius over it's life puts out more Particulate Matter (smog) than the non-hybrid. How much more the RX400h?

As far as my purchase of a hybrid truck. Good question. I set out to buy a used 3/4 ton PU. Finding one in San Diego that is not lifted and has tires the size of Rhode Island it tough. Plus they want more for used than new in many cases. When I found this GMC hybrid set up to tow 7700 lbs for $24k, discounted from $36k I thought I would give it a go. This should be my last truck purchase. I like the engine shut down at stop lights and I like the XM radio, something not available on the $50k RX400h. If it gets close to the 19/21 MPG rating I will be happy. The only thing you hear at the stop lights is the AC & the XM radio playing classical music.

backy · July 2005

Land Rovers aren't the only V8 SUV. There's lots more for fair comparison to the RX400h. Also, smog is not just particulate matter. In fact, the biggest component of summertime smog is ozone. Why the focus on particulate matter? The chart you posted earlier clearly shows that the lifetime emissions of the Prius are less than that of a conventional ICE car. There is no way it can be reasonably extrapolated to support the hypothesis that the RX400h pollutes more than a conventional, like-sized and like-powered SUV. And like Forest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that."

A chart showing the comparison of a hybrid like the Prius to a diesel car like the Passat would be interesting, especially wrt particulate matter. Have you ever seen a chart like that, in the news someplace?

My point being that if you multiply those figures by the amount difference between the Prius & RX400h you should get a fair analysis.

I'm not following you there. Multiply by what "amount difference"?

gagrice · July 2005

Multiply by what "amount difference"?

The added battery size and larger motors. I think the RH has at least one more electric motor than the Prius. About a third more weight in materials that have to be manufactured somewhere. That is where the most pollution comes from. We debated the diesel vs hybrid till we got shut down so I will leave that alone. I have agreed that the small hybrids are probably headed in the right direction. To me saying that the RX400h is better than a V8 SUV is like someone rationalizing that an Expedition is environmentally better than a Hummer. After all it gets 60% better overall mileage than the Hummer. Maybe we should say the Prius & Insight are Kelly Green and the RH & HH are lime green.

PF_Flyer · July 2005

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=asahuwSpo4XA&refer=asia

That's an article about Toyota aiming to double their Euopean sales of the Prius this year.

It's also resolves the burning question of what the plural of Prius is

"...The carmaker sold 8,200 Prius last year."

Although I was kind of fond of Prii ...heh

falconone · July 2005

I thought the RX shuts down at stop lights and you can get XM. My friend just leased a LR3 for 24 months and it is a comparable size to the RX. He got a wonderful deal on the lease (high 3's I think). Anyway, his rationale was that the lease was SO much less than the RH, that he figured the lease savings would be for the add'l fuel. Anyway, he gets 11-13 avg!!!!!! The RH is double that!! I think when comparing those two vehicles the net result would be that the RH wins at the end of its life cycle. Plug in hybrids would make sense but would NOT be embraced. Why do you think Toyota always stresses that in their ads? People don't want to be incovenienced.

gagrice · July 2005

People don't want to be inconvenienced.

I would bet that at least 50% of the current Prius owners would not mind plugging their car in if they could run all their errands without the ICE being used. If the modified Prius live up to the 125 MPG claims you can bet some car company will jump into the business.

An LR3 is not a good comparison to the RH. Maybe an MDX. Some RX400h owners are not getting any better mileage than the MDX. Some MDX owners claim high 20s on the highway. Totally loaded they have a TMV of $41,634, lots cheaper than the RH. Better looking also.

PS
I don't see XM on any of the Japanese Luxury vehicles. That seems strange. That is a great option on any car. Well worth the $9.99 per month in my book.

falconone · July 2005

I love XM... never drive with CDs anymore. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I I think the MDX looks like a mini-van. I think a better truck would be the Tribeca. It has a great price and tons of goodies. The RH is not my cup of tea either but I have to say, it is an extremely smooth and quiet ride. Much better than the MDX. Most people reporting here seem to be happy with their mileage .

maxhonda99 · July 2005

"Some MDX owners claim high 20s on the highway. Totally loaded they have a TMV of $41,634, lots cheaper than the RH. Better looking also. "

Why do you consistently distort information? Why don't you point out the city figures also? You claim some MDX owner's claim high 20s on the highway. How many can claim over 20MPG driving around town?? There are a whole lot of RX400h owner's claiming they are getting mid 20s in mixed driving. Unless a MDX is driving downhill all the time, I doubt any owner will get mid 20s around town!

BTW, the original point someone mentioned was to compare the RX400h to V8 powered SUVs in the class. Last time I checked, the MDX doesn't have a V8.

xcel · July 2005

Hi Maxhonda:

How many can claim over 20MPG driving around town??

I can actually. I received 27.x mpg around town in our MDX the last time it took me almost 3 hours to travel from Childrens Memorial in downtown Chicago to my home 45 miles away. Out on highway, low to mid 30s is my norm. I am an outlier in terms of FE however

Unless a MDX is driving downhill all the time, I doubt any owner will get mid 20s around town!

Why should I bother replying to a statement as ridiculous as that?

BTW, the original point someone mentioned was to compare the RX400h to V8 powered SUVs in the class. Last time I checked, the MDX doesn't have a V8.

In regards to HP or 0 - 60 times, the MDX w/ its 3.5 L V6 would tear up an V6 equipped RX 330 and will hold its own against the V6 equipped RXh depending on who is testing it. In other words, it doesnt need a V8 to outperform an RX let alone hold its own against the RXh for a lot less. The last time I checked, the RX and RXh didnt include a V8 either? Your point was?

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

gagrice · July 2005

Last time I checked, the MDX doesn't have a V8.

Last I checked the RX400h does not have a V8 either. I know many would like to classify it as a V8 in performance. The only thing it excels performance wise is 0-60. How about towing or or carrying 7 passengers? It is not a V8 SUV and to compare them is about apples to oranges as comparing the The RX400h to the Escape hybrid. Why don't you compare the RH to the VW Touareg TDI. It gets 27 MPG and does 0-60 in 5 seconds. Would that be a fair comparison. Plus the Touareg just set an off road record for going higher than any stock vehicle has ever gone. How would the RX400h do at 19,950 ft? The VW Touareg just went that high and they used their V6 engine to do it. The RX400h is a cushy riding AWD car for townies that want people to think they are off roaders. From all the posts the only way to get close to EPA is to drive like an OLD Lady. Those that buy the car expecting to drive it like the RX330 they traded in and get the great mileage are unhappy. And there are several of those on this forum.

And even a 5 year old MDX does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds slightly faster than the RX400h. I guess that makes it comparable to a V8 SUV also. Now with a more powerful engine the MDX should blow it away. I think it is a fair comparison.

PF_Flyer · July 2005

I know it's easy to stray, but if you want to talk about the RX 400h or copmparisons with other vehicles, let's keep that in the
Lexus RX 400h discussions.

back to news items, this one from Business Week about what's driving hybrid sales...

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2005/tc2005077_1015_tc024.htm?campaign_i- d=topStories_ssi_5

larsb · July 2005

Ford's second hybrid on sale:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/12105780.htm

molokai · July 2005

Hypermilers like yourself certainly can achieve that claim. On average, most people who have the MDX average high teens low 20's. Not bad. As far a comparing the MDX to the RH, well who cares if they both go 0-60 in low 7's. I've driven both and think the RH has the superior ride as well as handling. Personally, I wouldn't buy either, because I don't have the need.

philly400h · July 2005

As has been pointed out in a different Lexus hybrid forum, people have their reasons for buying this vehicle. Stating that 400h owners are "townies that want people to think they are off roaders" is a rude generalization. I've never really heard of anyone buying a Lexus for, or even the appearance of off road use. For us it was the SULEV+AWD+Safety+luxury+power+mileage+Toyota/Lexus reliability that made it the best option for us; we're not going to take part in any tractor pulls. It's a step in the right direction and I'm curious what improvements will be made in the years to come.

I'm pushing 1000 miles on my 400h and I really love the car.

molokai · July 2005

http://tinyurl.com/d9qm6

xcel · July 2005

Hi Molokai:

Luxury appointments and feel are definitely the Lexus forte. My wife still wishes the MDX had the Lexus interior. Ride. The RX had that advantage but it felt Camryish vs. the MDX Accordish road feel. Does that make sense? Handling. The MDX is the winner in that category. .74 on the skidpad although roadholding through the twisties is rated at a slightly slower speed. The RXh simply felt less stable with much more roll in hard cornering. Its the utility and size that the MDX has in spades. The Lexus had that baby buggy ride when we took it through a construction parking lot during the test drive way back when. It was also much smaller. The MDX felt much more stable through that same construction lot. Size wise, they are not even in the same league. That 4 + inches of width is huge when behind the wheel or in the passenger seat. The load characteristics placed the MDX well ahead with a good 1,350 # cap vs. the RXs 850 #s or so. 5-adults in the RX and you should not consider going to the grocery store is the way it was explained way back when in the MDX and Lexus forums

FE Possibilities. Knowing what I know about the Prius IIs inner workings and possibilities today, I believe the Lexus RXh is good for the high 30s year round with the extreme hypermiler behind the wheel. On a one off, I would think 47 - 48 + mpg with a Pull out all the stops on a deserted country road in the summer using every trick in the book. An average driver, maybe 23 - 25 mpg. The MDX will give the extreme hypermiler about 31 - 32 overall year round. A Pull out all the stops one off? Maybe 37 - 38 or so. I have a screenshot of 34.x after 180 miles when coming back from the U of I last year in sub-optimal temps while loaded to the headliner so who really knows? I have seen 40 + but it is not sustainable in the Chicago traffic pattern I have to drive most of the time. An average hypermiler, about 25, and as you said, the average driver about 19 to 20 overall.

I do wish Lexus would have made the RXh more affordable as I wish they would make the regular RX more affordable as well. Them there is the breaks. It is Toyotas largest profit center and since most vehicles from a given manufacturer are built off one anothers platforms today, is the RXh worth double the amount of the loaded up to the 9s Camry? It isnt but if you want the epitome of luxury in a small SUV as well as the highest mileage (never mind the perceived cost savings), the RXh is the cream of the crop in the small to mid-sized SUV category right now. Why Toyota did not PZEV that thing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me?

Given 2 kids are out of college now and the third is just starting HS next year, my wife is beyond the SUV phase and is looking for something a bit different. Her wants swing from one extreme to the other depending on the time of day apparently??? She does not want an SUV as she says they are too large to see around and park. Never mind the rear fish eye NAVI unit, she hated it. She loved the 05 TL but we were about $1,000 apart and the FE savings werent that great a difference anyway. When ever she takes my 05 Accord EX-L w/ NAVI out, it isnt enough lux for her. The XLEd Camry, same thing. When the Camry becomes hybridized next year with the new body style and hopefully more road feel, maybe she will go for that but her latest want is a rag top. For gods sake, we live in Chicago with maybe 10 days a year when that car could be opened up. She just doesnt get it but who am I to tell her what she can have or cant? She is after all The Boss

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

molokai · July 2005

Have a look at the TSX. I bet you could get high 30's the way you drive. It is a great bargain... has wonderful safety features and Honda reliability. If I got rid of my Prius, that would be my ride. I also am partial to the new 3 series, but I am definitely in the minority on that one! Good luck with your decisions!

gagrice · July 2005

is a rude generalization

You're right, I apologize! I wanted to like the RX400h until I found I could not take it out in the desert, running through sandy washes.

maxhonda99 · July 2005

First and Foremost, I believe the Toureg TDI isn't even sold here anymore because of slow sales.

Second, we've been thru this a million times before and counting. How many people actually tow anything with their SUVs?? I know you will dispute this, but it's a relatively well known fact that the majority of luxury SUV drivers don't take their SUVs off-roading or tow.

maxhonda99 · July 2005

I don't buy how you can get 27MPG from a 4000lb+ SUV in around town driving. With my Accord, I only get 26MPG in highway driving on cruise control. And if you do, you are one of the very few, since on the MDX forums people seem to be getting much lower.

tear up a RX330? Huh....let's stop with the typical over exaggeration!

gagrice · July 2005

I believe the Toureg TDI isn't even sold here anymore because of slow sales.

VW sold the 500 V10 TDI units allocated for the US. EPA put a hold on further imports until some issue was settled. My understanding is that it is now approved for sale in the 45 states that allow diesel cars.

Yes we have discussed towing. That is not the issue. If the RX400h is to be compared to other SUV's it should be fair game to mention all attributes or lack there of, in the vehicles being compared. It is not realistic to compare vehicles only on one level and say the rest is not important. All vehicles are a compromise. We each have to decide what is important or not important when we buy.

molokai · July 2005

The only time I see people towing things are with pickup trucks are very large SUVs. I can't ever remember someone towing with a mid size SUV. I am sure it is done, bit quite infrequently in the urban areas.

maxhonda99 · July 2005

Huh...that 31MPG or whatever it was could be over 2 miles for all I know. ON a extended basis, I don't know how you can get 31MPG. You must have gotten a extra special MDX! Or as I said before, your to and from trips both must be downhill!

maxhonda99 · July 2005

Oh yeah forgot to ask this...how do you defy all the laws of physics and get this ludicrously high MPG numbers which nobody else can get??? If you get 32MPG out of a Acura MDX, I should be easily able to pull 45MPG out of my Accord!!!

stevedebi · July 2005

"Huh...that 31MPG or whatever it was could be over 2 miles for all I know. ON a extended basis, I don't know how you can get 31MPG. You must have gotten a extra special MDX! Or as I said before, your to and from trips both must be downhill!"

I'm more interested in the Accord 4 cyl mileage. I don't own an Accord, but if I'm reading it right the display said it was 62 MPG, over a 49 mile span after a refill.

molokai · July 2005

Xcel is a hypermiler person who knows how to squeeze every ounce out of a gallon of fuel. His methods may be unorthadox, but they are authentic. Very few people would be able to achieve those lofty numbers. Let's face it, the average MDX owner is probably getting 19 in mixed city and highway driving. With respect to an Accord, I don't doubt those numbers either.

maxhonda99 · July 2005

"Xcel is a hypermiler person who knows how to squeeze every ounce out of a gallon of fuel. His methods may be unorthadox, but they are authentic. "

That's why I'm asking him.

With slight changes in my driving habits, I've gotten the average on my 2000 Accord V6 up from a average of 20 to 22MPG. I want to know how to get 40MPG in mixed driving!

xcel · July 2005

Hi Maxhonda99:

Huh...that 31MPG or whatever it was could be over 2 miles for all I know. ON a extended basis, I don't know how you can get 31MPG. You must have gotten a extra special MDX! Or as I said before, your to and from trips both must be downhill!

Not a special MDX and Chicago does not have that many downhills. At least not the Chicago I have lived near all of my life 2 miles? No, that pic was taken after ~ 40 miles. I can get an exact number via mapquest but it really is not that important to me.

Oh yeah forgot to ask this...how do you defy all the laws of physics and get this ludicrously high MPG numbers which nobody else can get???

This is pretty easy actually. Because I know how to do it. If you would spend a few days learning and a few years practicing instead of preaching that this or that is impossible, you could do the same. The attitude is the first thing that has to go however.

If you get 32MPG out of a Acura MDX, I should be easily able to pull 45MPG out of my Accord!!!

If you own a 2000 on up Accord, 45 mpg would be pretty easy actually as I am exceeding that average in my 05 EX-L w/ NAVI after just 14,000 miles myself.

Stevedebi, it was a 61.0 mpg run after a refill at greater then the limit speeds. Dont ask because I will probably never see that again in my life

The best segment I received in a friends Accord Hybrid after trading automobiles for a week was as follows:

If it were my AH, I am sure I would have hit 62 - 63 mpg on that exact day I hit 61 in the non-hybrid PZEV

The above back and forth between Maxhonda99 and myself is one of the reasons why I have a distaste for posting here at Edmunds. Everyone has an opinion which is fine but the rest of the BS stinks when you have to defend yourself after each and every post.

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

maxhonda99 · July 2005

Oh now, don't get soo touchy...I'm from New Jersey....you have to excuse my natural rudeness....

seriously, I would really like to know how you get such great MPG numbers and how I could improve mine. I'm guessing your getting the 45+ MPG on a 4-cylinder Accord? Mine's a V6.

BTW, I ain't preaching nothing...I'm just giving the reality that the average MDX owner isn't getting more than 20MPG in mixed driving. Is that not reality?

larsb · July 2005

New study reveals Hybrid knowledge spreading in the USA, but the cheapskates are slowing down things !!!

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/07/11/137189.html

"Consumers Taking a 'Wait and See' Attitude in Their Adoption of Hybrid Vehicles
High consideration and awareness will compete with financial factors in purchase decisions

* 97 percent of respondents recognize "hybrid" vehicle terminology * 78 percent of respondents would consider buying a hybrid vehicle * 61 percent indicate they are concerned with price

SOUTHFIELD, Mich., July 11 -- Results from a forthcoming study to be released by the Polk Center for Automotive Studies on July 19 indicate while consumers are aware of and considering hybrid vehicles, they may not be "sold" just yet due to the additional costs associated with the technology."

molokai · July 2005

It depends.. do you pronounce is Jersey or Joisey? One thing that hypermilers do is pump up their tires to over 50 psi. I am not sure what this does to the tires, but I am sure the ride is a little harsher. I really don't have to try and techniques. I am getting 51.3 on my MFD on this tank. I do have a little higher air pressure, but not much more than suggested.

stevedebi · July 2005

Count me in there too. I think the technology is interesting, but not yet for me. Too many variables that need several years to play out.

maxhonda99 · July 2005

I pronounce it properly....don't live near NYC or the shore!! Although I will be moving close to Atlantic City, so I may soon be saying it Neu Joisey!

Huh...I'm definately not pumping the tires to over 50PSI. I find anything over 35PSI to be unbearable! Even at 35PSI the ride is noticeably harsher! Not to mention the tires will wear faster.

maxhonda99 · July 2005

I'll start thinking about buying a Hybrid by the time the 2007 Camry Hybrid comes out. By then Toyota's hybrid technology will be on generation 3(I think). And by 2007, there will be plenty of Toyota/Lexus' with HSD, so price differences will go down between hybrid variants and regular gas and the technology will be more reliable-partially due to more compact and simpler componentry.

toyotaken · July 2005

Prius is currently gen 3. HH and RXh are gen 4. Camry should be gen 5

Ken

maxhonda99 · July 2005

The current Prius is gen. 3? Than what was the 1st generation Prius?

toyotaken · July 2005

1st generation Prius was not sold here in the US. They only had them overseas. The first Prius coming to the US was actually the 2nd generation of the technology. Body was the same, but had smaller batteries and upgraded motors and electronics.

So...

1st gen - Compact sedan sold overseas
2nd gen - Compact sedan sold here and overseas
3rd gen - current

xcel · July 2005

Hi MaxHonda99:

Even at 35PSI the ride is noticeably harsher!

Yes, there is no free lunch. The following might help you decide what is worth it or not as this is the best detailed data from a friend of mine (Krousdb in his Prius II) from just a few weeks ago:

62/62 PSI. 98.8 mpg at 77F.

44/42 PSI. 97.4 mpg at 82F.

35/33 PSI. 96.0 mpg at 86F.

Not to mention the tires will wear faster.

That is not necessarily the case and in many instances, hypermilers see much less wear as the pressures are increased. RE92s of the Insight at 50 #s have been shown to have a 400% greater lifespan vs. those same RE92s when run on the Insight at just 35 #s.

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

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