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Honda Accord Diesel????

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Comments

  • quipsquips Member Posts: 9
    Honda's loss will be Subaru's gain since they will have an Outback with the diesel option.

    I'll investigate the Subaru for my next vehicle. :P
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'll investigate the Subaru for my next vehicle.

    Don't hold your breath. I have wanted a small diesel PU truck since 1998. So far no company has brought one to the USA. VW is the only company that has been able to pass all the emissions to sell in all 50 states with a mid priced vehicle. Mercedes and BMW have passed the tests and will offer several pricey diesel rigs this year in all the states.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Right now Subaru's diesel is only at the 43-state emissions compliance level, and apparently they are holding off spending the money to bring it to a 50-state standard.

    So your predictions will probably prove to be uncannily accurate gagrice - all the much-vaunted and well-advertised forays into diesel by the Japanese companies will come to naught, at least before 2010. And that's too bad. :-(

    Word on the TSX is that they will now put a V-6 in instead of the diesel that failed certification with the automatic. You know, the manual passed - wouldn't it be cool if they sold TSX and Accord diesel manuals while they improved the emissions of the automatics?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Word on the TSX is that they will now put a V-6

    I just read that. Does Honda think because gas prices are back down that we want another gas guzzling V6? I realize that is the only way they can get the torque of a 4 cylinder diesel. Maybe they should try a little harder instead of making excuses. Oh well I would not have been interested in anything smaller than a Pilot diesel anyway.
  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    I wonder why Honda used the 5AT instead of the 6AT? They could play with the gear ratios to get the same ranges as the 6MT. How far off was the 5AT version? One wonders why they would send a car for certification that wouldn't pass. When a car fails certification, do they get additional attempts or do they have to wait for next year?
  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    I read the Left Lane news article and Honda was using the 6AT for the certification. Too bad they couldn't meet the standards.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    One wonders why they would send a car for certification that wouldn't pass. When a car fails certification

    I wondered the same thing. They have all the test criteria. In fact they may have even done the testing. It is all pretty hushed up by Honda. I think it could be the exchange rate or any number of excuses.
  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    My question now is what is Honda going to put in the "Camry and Altima" market segment? Their last attempt at a hybrid didn't pay attention to why people buy hybrid cars i.e. high mileage... .

    OTOH, I don't understand how their 2.4L engine only gets 1-2 better MPG than the six which is a liter larger in displacement, but I'm getting off topic...
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    In the real world, most people are seeing much more than 1-2 mpg difference between 4 and 6 if they do much city driving. On the highway, it may not be much difference.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Consumer Reports got the i4 at 3 mpg better than the v6 overall. The diff is greater in the city.
  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    Seeing as the 4 cyl is giving up aboutt a liter of displacement to the 6 cyl engine, I'm not sure why you wouldn't see a greater difference. Could this be weight related i.e. you have to expend x number of horsepower to push y number of pounds and the 4 works pretty hard to do that while the 6 does not?
  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    Anyone know how "dead" this project is? Is Honda going to develop further and bring this out in 2010+ or did Honda completely pull the plug on the diesel?
  • mickrussommickrussom Member Posts: 1
    Yeah, is there any update on this vehicle ? Or is it a 2010 thing?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    If I recall correctly this is dead. It seems the automatic diesel did not pass 50 state emmissions so they pulled the plug. The stick shift did, but they won't bother for such small numbers. Too bad - I would have snagged a stick with the diesel.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Dead as a door nail. Honda says it flunked the U.S. emissions test. However, they have redone the engine to make 170 hp and 280 ft. lbs. of torque. Maybe Honda will try it again,
  • quipsquips Member Posts: 9
    Consumer Guide Automotive said that 2010 Honda CRV may have a 2.2 liter diesel.

    Vehicle Highlights
    The 2010 Honda CR-V may receive a diesel engine. This five-passenger compact SUV should continue to be available with front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive. Trim levels should include LX, EX, and top-line EX-L with leather upholstery. All should have a 166-hp 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine and a 5-speed automatic transmission. A new 2.2-liter diesel 4-cylinder would make 138 hp. Maximum towing capacity should be 1500 lb with the gasoline engine. Available safety features should include ABS, traction control, antiskid system, curtain side airbags, and front side airbags. A power driver seat and dual-zone automatic climate control should be standard on EX-L. A navigation system would also likely remain available on EX-L. Versions so equipped will be priced as separate models. This report is based on evaluations of the 2009 Honda CR-V.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    That's old news. Honda put the diesel on hold. The new news is that the 2.2 now make 30 more horsepower and 20 more ft. pounds of torque. The newest news,is that Honda put the diesel on hold for business reasons: Not becuase it could not comply w/EPA as Honda originally stated. Which means: We may see a better Honda diesel in the distant future,
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    That future is truly distant, very distant.....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    The 2.2 TDi engine had so much potential I was hoping that Honda might go back and re-engineer the emissions. It I may turn on the "Way Back" machine, I remember Honda using the stratified charge CVCC engines without catalytic converters but then was forced to go add them when the emissions laws made it impossible for them to pass without them. I wonder if this is a similar situation, instead this time needing to incorporate other technologies such as urea injection (I wonder if their 2 step cataytic converter system, while cool technology, just couldn't get things clean enough. OTOH, I'm sure I'm greatly oversimplifying this whole thing.

    IMHO, we are seeing the effect of electing Mr. Obama -- they handed emissions controls to the states so instead of having one really good standard to run to, we can now have 50 different standards for the automakers to conform to. Just the thing automakers on the edge of bankrupcy need...
  • bornabruinbornabruin Member Posts: 7
    So what is Honda going to do for a high mileage option for the Accord line? Might they go for a new hybrid drivetrain with a smaller 4 and electric assist?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Obama was not in office when Honda killed the diesel.

    Emissions are still federal, but states can choose to have higher standards _ like California et all.

    States have always had control over enforcing emissions. In SD there are no emissions inspections at all. No safety inspections either for that matter. In fact I don't have a single sticker on my windshield.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That sounds kind of dumb. There hybrids are not all that great. The Accord was a total flop. They could not give the old Insight away. The Civic is only marginally successful. With Toyota matching the price of the new Honda Insight who will buy it over the proven Prius? I think Honda is losing their edge. They have increasingly lost out and missed the mark. They should have stuck with diesels at least for their large vehicles.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Just put the 2.2 diesel in the Civic,CRV,and Accord and Honda meets the 35 mpg regs for those cars. No muss;No fuss. That's why I think we still may have a second chance at the Honda Diesel. Fingers crossed.
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    I agree. Mercedes just introduced the E250 with a 2.2 liter diesel at the NY auto show. If they can do it, why can't Honda? If the E250 comes to the U.S., it's on my short list when my 08 V6 is up for replacement in 2011.
  • quipsquips Member Posts: 9
    I agree with that ... I saw that in the NY Times' coverage of the auto show and read about that. I'd wait it out as well. If Honda doesn't come around to reconsider the diesel, Honda will not be considered by me ;o)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    From what I read the stickshift passed EPA and the Auto didn't. They should have just brought the stick over until the auto was ready. Could test the waters that way. Honda (and others) have had stick only in some sporty and/or niche vehicles. (Si, first Insight etc.)

    Even if they didn't sell a bunch they could have still beaten their chest about having such an efficient large car available (should beat Camry Hybrid - especially on the road). It certainly would have been as popular as the ill conceived Accord Hybrid
  • mvpelmvpel Member Posts: 1
    Don't you just love how the EPA is contributing to our dependence on foreign oil by blocking a car that would easily double my current fuel economy? It's just irritating.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,466
    Don't you just love how the EPA is contributing to our dependence on foreign oil by blocking a car that would easily double my current fuel economy? It's just irritating.

    Tell me about it. And the irony is that diesels turn out less CO than gas engines, but they get no credit for that from the EPA.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • savinsavin Member Posts: 4
    Yes isn't it great ..lol Just think on the diesel level and the new calif .regs ..they are not concerened about the emmissions! ONLY THE YEAR OF ENGINE. when told we can meet the 2007 emissions with a 1995 manual motor cat, california board of air quality told us we "are not concerned at this time and only interested in the year model!This is a good example of costing the trucking industry millions! We have produced a unit that is designed strickly for class 8 trucks and gains 20 -25 % in fuel mileage !
  • quipsquips Member Posts: 9
    Tells us about California ... the state that had to print IOU's to pay its debt(s)! What arrogance now to try to mandate exhaust emissions stardards for the rest of the country ... from a state that can't afford to pay its own debts!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    from a state that can't afford to pay its own debts!

    I would hate to see this turn into a political debate. But the bullies that run this state have stomped on so many freedoms that the Honda diesel is just minute compared to all the rest. So don't get me started on the Soviet Socialist Republic of California as so many disgruntled residents like to call it.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    From my observations, most of the CR-V's here in UK are 2.2 i-CTDi diesels. 138bhp/251lbft seems to work pretty well. Same engine appears in the Civic, (and the now-defunct FR-V), but the Accord gets the 2.2 i-DTEC with 148bhp/258lbft.

    If you're not familiar with it, the FR-V was a 6 seat 5-door hatch/SUV similar in size to the CR-V; just a little narrower; 2 rows of "smart" 3-abreast seats and lots of kit..............it just didn't sell too well, hence it was killed off. :(
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Honda is starting to lose my respect. Dropping the diesel and adding guzzlers like the new crossovers are really hurting them in my eyes.

    A diesel Accord wagon would be an absolute segment buster. More interior space than most SUV's with better mpg than a Civic. All without clumsy SUV handling and braking. No brainer to me - just don't get how hardly anybody else sees this.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I agree. Like how could they release the Crosstour and not make a 4-cylinder engine available? It is V-6 only! Venza has a 4-cylinder, Outback has a 4-cylinder. Honda is barely trying these days....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Even the next generation Sienna minivan will have an available 4-cyl engine.

    Honda is not alone though. Mazda was pretty boneheaded with the 6 wagon only having a V-6. It was about the perfect vehicle for me but I did not consider it because the mpg was worse than my wifes V-6 minivan. Wound up with an Accord I-4 stick that has averaged 34.5 mpg over 76,000 miles (yes I figure every tank). A diesel wagon would be better than my vehicle in just about every way.

    Lets see the innovation from the CVCC days Honda. Bring us a diesel and drop the overweight barges.
  • johnf101johnf101 Member Posts: 5
    I have a sheet with lease info and I wonder if anyone could tell me if this is a good deal or not....I can leave my email and send it as an attachment - but the info is below: smcc@polarcomm.com

    I think I should ask/negotiate for invoice for selling price, right now it is the MSRP.

    Any help would be appreciated!

    Thanks, John

    selling price (actually MSRP) 22730
    acq & cap fees 864
    trade allowance 2700
    cash cap reduction 1277.44
    Net Cap cost 20186.68
    MSRP 22730
    residual 58%
    lease end value 13183.40
    money fact sell rate 0.00084
    1st payment 222.56
    amount due at start 1500
    customer cash 1500
    tax [window] 570.12
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    This is a discussion about the potential for a diesel version of the Accord. I see you've posted in our lease questions discussion, so please check for responses there.

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