Ford Super Duty Continued - VII

koakey · April 2000

John, this almost sounds like you're in 4 wheel drive... when you're in 4wd, tight turns can cause the front wheels to 'feel' funny (since both wheels are trying to drive and the radius of the turn is different).

Is this possible?

bess · April 2000

When you manually select 2nd, you prevent the tranny from downshifting to 1st..

In auto, it shifted down to first so that explains why it pulled the hill in 1st and auto. Turning of OD would make no difference one way or the other.

On some trannys, the clutches/bands used for 2nd are different if you manually select 2nd vs using it in automatic mode.
Below is a link for the 4R70W tranny, but I would bet the principles are similar on the 4R100.
http://www.tccoa.com/transmission/page3.shtml

Looking at the ratio, 2nd in the auto tranny, is very similar to 3rd on the 5sp..

5spd - 1st 5.72 - 2nd 2.94 - 3rd 1.61 - 4th 1.00 -
5th 0.76
6spd - low 5.79 - 1st 3.31 - 2nd 2.10 - 3rd 1.31 -
4th 1.00 - 5th 0.72
auto - 1st 2.71 - 2nd 1.54 - 3rd 1.00 - 4th 0.71

Also, the tranny is generally the weak link in all HD towing applications.. Chevy and Dodge tranny's are no better or worse.

sherwoodfor · April 2000

besides my wonderful wife, i figure you all are the only ones with even a passing interest in the fact that my truck has arrived. we went and looked at our truck and it is a beautiful thing. work will keep me from picking it up until probably thursday. btw, 45 days from order to delivery.
00/350/cc/4x4/sb/srw/psd/green and some other stuff...

porky · April 2000

Thanks for the reply and link.

I still think that I have a serious problem with the transmission.
I went back down, without the trailer, turned around and started back up the hill in FIRST. From a dead stop, at 950rpm - 1000rpm it started to creep up - 3mph to 5mph and at 1500rpm I shifted into SECOND. At that point I lost any forward power and started to decelerate (keeping the throttle at 1500rpm). I shifted the transmission into DRIVE and was able to continue up the rest of the way.
I did this twice, once with the overdrive on and once with it off in case it may have had something to do with it. I guess not.
I am assuming that this isn't just an adjustment problem and that a new transmission will need to be installed. I'm just hoping a NEW, NOT a new REBUILT will be installed. Is there a way to tell the difference ?? A second stamp maybe ??? ANY information would be helpful.

dwucher · April 2000

I have not been able to drive another truck of the same config. And I hate to beat a dead horse also. My only chance it seems to figure this out is to either drive a like vehicle, or get the information from ya'll. If you put your truck in 1st gear, let out the clutch enough to move the truck a couple of feet, and then push the clutch in, you hear no clunking sound coming from forward of the stick shift? It will do it every time when I am parked on an upward incline. There seems to be at least a couple of inches of play/sound occuring on my vehicle. And the clunk is very loud. If you can't make your vehicle do this, then I have to assume that mine does not need to do this. I can't imagine that if I had 5000 lbs of tow on this vehicle, and this "extra play/whatever it is" happens, that damage would not occur. Especially on an incline, or at high speeds. I appreciate any more information that you have on this.

tom169 · April 2000

jraske, sounds like the same thing.

Koakey, thanks. Been to ford diesel. They're chasing me out right now!

Roxband. The V10 is a puller. 310 Hp and 425 foot pounds of torque is nothing to sneeze at. The psd is only 235 hp and 500 ft lbs. do you really think 15-20 % increase in torque is going to make that much difdference when pulling less than max load? A V10 used for pulling needs 4.30 gears.

endinmaine · April 2000

Regarding your PSD and chip ,, what brand/model did you put in ? 22.5 at 70mph for 60 miles is very impressive.

Thanks

ashewitt · April 2000

Has anyone bought and installed the ROLLnLOCK roll top bed cover? It sounds real close to the Pace Edwards brand. Also what has been the best price found for the Pace Edwards brand?

FYI, I just installed the husky molded mud flaps and can't decide if I like them or not. I found that all the predrilled holes don't line up and they fit better if you bend the lip of the fender out a little before you install them. It decreases the gap between the fender and the plastic. F-250SD 4x4, CC, SB, V-10 auto, 10.1 mpg mostly short distances.

roxband · April 2000

tom169
I agree that the spec differences in power and torque don't support rumor. The curves show the V10 developing it's HP and torque at a lot higher rpms. I've ridden in both on the highway (w/o a trailer of any kind) and both seem fine. Just heard that the V10 pulls way down with a load and get crumbier mileage when loaded. Mileage always worse than the psd anyway.

The chip might help in both; heard this too. Interested from bfriesen in that data bit.

dwucher,
As to your clunking noise, I have a 91 model and have had a clunking noise for a long time under the same conditions you describe. In a chassis shift situation (stopping, starting, speed bumps, etc) the transmission support member across the frame carries the rear transmission support bracket. The bolts don't seem to keep the tranny "snug" and allows a "clunking" noise as described. Don't know if this is your problem; just another idea.

jraske · April 2000

Koakey, the first thing i checked on my truck was to see if someone had turned my hubs to manual, since this is the first thing I would recommend to others, no such luck. The feeling is just like if you put over size tires on your truck and they rub against something, I know what you are talking about being in four wheel drive, if that were the case to me that feels more like a slight jerking motion, at least that is how it is with the D***e 3500 4X4 I drive at work is.

Tom 169 I am thinking maybe we need new power steering pumps on our rigs, what do you think? Anybody else have an idea what it could be?
Also Tom i believe you have the V10? I have the PSD would our rigs both have the basicly same power steering pumps on them?
Thanx John

craigwilliamso · April 2000

My salesman has told me that 3.73 gears with limited slip is not available in the configuration I have on order (00 250, 4WD, 5.4L, SC, SWB) Anybody else heard this? Seems very odd to me. The Ford webpage has no limitations on this configuration when building your vehicle online. Any help/news/thoughts would be appreciated.

Craig

dwucher · April 2000

This is true. If you get the 5.4l you will have to take the 4.10ls, with the v10 you will have to take the 4.30ls.

dwucher · April 2000

That's what it sounds like. Like something is loose, and something else real big is attached to it. Thanks.

wildside1 · April 2000

northpole1 .... your antenna is in the mail .... sent it out last week the day after I got your email. I believe the correct double ended screw to use for the SD is the one with three metal rings around the center of it. The only hastle I had installing it was getting the screw to go into the antenna while compressing a spring that is within it. Good Luck.

porky ... Sorry to hear about your tranny!!! It would be interresting to find out if anyone else has the same problem with this transmission. Even though leaving the tranny in DRIVE appears to be the best method of going up a hill, it is hard to believe that locked in 2nd wouldn't pull it unless you started from dead stop with nose uphill already. Please keep us informed as to what happens.

jtc · April 2000

Does anyone know who makes a toe rope with hooks big enough to fit around the front toe eye hooks correctly ?

dogwood · April 2000

I don't have the commercial truck book handy, but I think you can get 3.73LS in the F350, because the 350 has a Dana 60 rear end and the F250 has the Dana 50. The 5.4 with 4.10LS is a nice combo, though. We have it in our 00 F350 SC LB 4x4, and I wouldn't trade it for 3.73s. It gets off the line with very little throttle, has plenty of towing power, and it's turning about 2400 RPM @ 70MPH. With less than 2K miles we're getting 13+ mpg without trying. If you gotta have the limited slip and you still think the 4.10s are too tall, you can go to taller tires to drop your engine RPMs. That will require a speedo calibration. See if you can test drive both axle ratios before you order.

gmace · April 2000

Do not put your auto in 2nd unless that is the ONLY gear you want. The owners manual says 2nd is only 2nd. I learned of this when pulling and wondered why the trans wouldn't downshift into 1st when 2nd was selected. The answer is - it's not supposed to.

If you had a manual trans you wouldn't be able to go up your hill in 3rd at 900 rpm either, V10 makes about 10 HP at that RPM. Leave it in drive and stand on it. Otherwise shift from 1 to 2 at 4000 rpm. You're not driving a diesel...make it rev.

There is nothing wrong with your trans.
Greg

gmace · April 2000

Own an F350 CC LWB V10 3.73 Auto with 32000 miles. Trans oil looked good at 30000 mile change. Towed 24 ft trailer (5000 lbs) about 7000 of those miles.
Greg

sclivingston · April 2000

Toe hooks (jtc) Mon 03 Apr '00 (10:06 AM)
Does anyone know who makes a toe rope with hooks
big enough to fit around the front toe eye hooks
correctly ?

Try Grainger. They sell tow STRAPS that will handle 10,000 plus. You have to buy teh hooks separate, but can get what fits, to include a locking clevis (which would be better)

craigwilliamso · April 2000

Thank you both for your inputs on the gears in my ordered Beast. I appreciate your help....

Craig

adubahbi · April 2000

In talking around to get info on a roll top bed cover I have heard that the California Concepts Roll'N Lock is a higher quality (and price) cover than the Pace Edwards products.
check out both on the web:
http://www.calconcepts.com/SolidBedCovers/Retractable/rollnlock.html (I was quoted $850 for F250SD LB)
Good luck

f350_or_bust · April 2000

I got my VIN from the dealer today. My build date was last Monday (3-27-00). From what I have read in this forum, I should be able to track my truck via BNSF's web page...but the VIN doesn't come up at all.

Please tell me what other options I have as far as tracking my late Christmas present.

Thanks from San Antonio Texas!!!

porky · April 2000

Thank you both for your concern and information.

I am still confused as to why, when starting in FIRST gear and increasing my speed up to 1500 RPM then manually shifting into SECOND, I would lose my forward momentum as if the clutches were not engaged. And then in DRIVE it grabs and I can continue up our hill, still keeping the RPM at 1500 ??? This is without the trailer. Sorry I'm LOST !!!

There my be nothing unusual about this but I still dropped the truck off at the service department for them to have a look at it. I guess I'll find out if there is a problem (or the problem is ME) in the next couple of days.

Thanks again for your help !!

summitx · April 2000

Well, today was supposed to be my build date! I went to the dealer and he gave me the VIN#. Looks like a Kentucky Trucky! 1FTNW.....

Just for fun, I went to bnsf.com and put in the number but, no surprise, it's not there yet. The dealer says that it will be 3-4 more weeks to delivery but from what some of you 'haves' have said, I'm believing 2-3 weeks. This is good because I still have to sell my Ranger or take a hit on the trade in price ( That will hurt! ) The Ranger has been trouble free until now, that I'm trying to sell it, the temperature control knob doesn't work! Anyone know how that system works? I think It's vacuum controlled by an electrical switch but I'm not sure.

Now a SD related question: I've seen a lot of mileage posted here - has anyone with a Lariat compared what the computer says to what you have calculated from Miles/Gallons? I'm wondering how accurate the trip computer is.

00 CC 4X4 Lariat Auto v-10 3.73 Oxford White - Born Today!

roxband · April 2000

Re. # 291, what kind of mileage did you get during all this pulling? Any of it in the mountains? Your thoughts on general performance?

jraske · April 2000

It sounds like you are trying to shift from first to second too soon, that is why it will still go up the hill when you shift to auto.
Why are you trying to manualy shift your trans,? just leave it in drive and let the automatic do what it is designed to do.
John

taxman2001 · April 2000

I have been reading many posts regarding your purchases. Many of you reference getting a truck at 500 over invoice, or even $100 under invoice. My question is what is the invoice price, and how do you negotiate down to that.

Example: The truck I want with the options listed on this site has an MSRP of about $33k. But the Edmunds Invoice price is about $27k. (roughly). Is it possible that I can purchase that car for close to the $27k, or is the invoice price something other than what is on this site?

Finally, does anyone know af any auto dealers in Idaho, Oregon, Utah or Montana that have been known to sell at the invoice price?

jraske · April 2000

How did you drive up this hill before you tried it with the trailer? In auto or by manually shifting?
John

porky · April 2000

Morning John. I always would drive up our hill in DRIVE. It worked fine but pulling the trailer for the first time I thought it was best to down shift. Thats when I THINK I discovered a problem with SECOND gear. Just to re-check the possible problem I went back down without the trailer and tried coming back up the hill. The results are in post #297. It's not what I would expect and will find out later today or tomorrow if I'm CRAZY like elvis. :-) Thanks, Paul

northpole1 · April 2000

Yup. That Edmunds invoice price is the invoice price. Offer your dealer(s) $100 over and see who bites. SDs are hugely popular so you may have to look far and wide; and don't be surprised if you have to order an '01 since the factory is about to cut off the '00s.

I almost did a deal with Fred First Ford in Spokane. They had accepted my $100 over offer. Try them.

Got my rig from Billingsley Ford in Lawton OK. Also $100 over; talk to Carl. '00, F350, SD, SC, XLT, 4X4, deep wedge over silver.

dwucher · April 2000

My truck was built on 3/16. Shipped via rail on 3/19. Arrived at railhead on 3/23. Picked it up on 3/27. I was never able to find it on BNSF. Took 5 days to get to Mesquite, I figured that I would be able to find it in there somewhere, but didn't. Just because it's not on their site, doesn't mean that it's not on the way. Good Luck.

baybear · April 2000

I find the mileage of the trip computer to be very accurate, always within .1-.3 of calculated value.
Y2K PSD CC Auto SRW LWB 3.73

koakey · April 2000

www.kbb.com is another good site. However both Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds should have the same invoice pricing.

Another tip, don't negotiate "down" to your price. Offer your price and work "up". I started with "how much over invoice you gonna take?" You won't find many that will deal under invoice.

Another note to be aware of. The actual invoice of the vehicle will contain a fuel charge and what Ford calls FDAF (Ford Dealer Advertising Fee). I haven't seen either of these (fuel or FDAF) really itemized on either kbb or edmund (and I suspect because they vary... fuel based on fuel cost and type; FDAF is based on region and vehicle type).

You'll probably have to pay for those as well (since they are on the actual vehicle invoice).

When you talk to the dealer, find out what the off-the-lot price is or the dealer may sneak in prep and other misc charged.

Oh, and don't forget tax, license, title (at least here in CO the additional non-negotiable costs).

f350_or_bust · April 2000

I tell you one thing...waiting for this truck is as worse, or more worse than waiting for Christmas to arrive.

Thanks for the reply!

nailbender1 · April 2000

Happy days to all of you that have finally recieved your SD.
Mainecowgirl- you have been most patient.
Hope you all enjoy your trucks.
rflint- I have the squeek also in the front end. Started around 1000- miles. I saw a link not too for back in this or the last set of posts that gave the explanation and remedy. When I get oil changed I will hopefully have squeek fixed. I have bad hearing and I can still hear it very clearly. Would also like to hear what products others use to clean and wax. Do you wax or polish, or both, sort of confused. Don't want to scratch up the paint with the wrong products.

bess · April 2000

Porky:
Let us know what the dealer says.. I was sortof leaning toward the side that this could be normal for the autos manual 2nd gear at only 1000 rpms w/v10 not having enough torque/hp to really drive 2nd up a hill.. It was weird to me that the 2nd gear in manual mode uses the OD band in the tranny, whereas in automatic mode it uses a set of clutches.. This might even explain differences between using 2nd in manual mode vs automatic mode.

dwucher: count me as a yes, my tranny has this clunking type of noise under those circumstances. To me this clunking is much less annoying than the exaust flutter I hear on acceleration which sounds much like an airy ping (to make up my own term). I'm sure tom169 would agree with me.

craigwilliamson:
I know that you can't get 5.4L + 5sp + 3.73LS.
I went with the 5.4L + 5sp + 4.10LS and don't regret it at all..
The edumunds site does give restrictions on who can get the 3.73LS and who cant.. Folks with the V10 have it even more weird:
V10 + 5sp + 3.73LS is NOT available.
V10 + auto + 3.73LS IS available.
So, with the V10, you need either 4.30 and/or auto tranny to get an LS rear.. Strange but true.

I just got back from a road trip to the beach and back.. Mostly highway with some lights through small towns.. Average MPG for the 325 mile trip = 17.4 mpg.. So, I think the 4.10's aren't hurting me to badly.. (I have stock tires)

Y2K F250 XLT SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS white with yellow pine pollen sprinkled all over it.

adubahbi · April 2000

Dealer called today, the beast is in - no apparent rail road mishaps!!!

Ordered 12/21, built week of 3/13

y2k f250SD CC LB Lariat v10 auto 3.73ls 4x4 265s trailer tow green/gold etc.

This has been a great forum for info and passing away the weeks. Dealer claims to be stuck by Ford with the price increase (which he's passing on to me) even though the order went in with a price code 017 - says he will show me the paperwork. Does this sound legit?? ~$200 bucks is 200 bucks.

bowhuntwi · April 2000

adubahbi-Check to make sure you have the same spare as your other tires, I have talked with differant dealers they all have given me differant answers, KellyBB says you should get 5 of the same kind. I got 4 white lettered ones & 1 black lettered. Ford doesn't even offer a black letter tire for 265's but they will give you one for a spare.

gtt1 · April 2000

Not trying to a smart [non-permissible content removed], but is it possible that the spare has the white letters but mounted the inside (black wall) down, where you can't see it? Mine has all five BSW.

deep_wedge · April 2000

For those folks who are trying to estimate delivery times, I just picked up my F250 XLT
SC 4x4 5.4L 5spd 4.10LS ORP TTP Deep Wedgewood Blue w/ Silver lower.

I placed the order March 4th. No complaints on the delivery time from me!

Initial impression is excellent, but that 1st gear
is really low!

porky · April 2000

I picked up the truck from the service department today and apparently ALL IS WELL.
The technician said that when the transmission is manually put in SECOND, that's where it is locked and stays. (as was pointed out to me by several of you knowledgeable individuals)
I guess I haven't read my owners manual as thoroughly as I thought. Again, this is my FIRST FORD product and I guess I expected this transmission to act like others I have owned .
THANKS to EVERYONE for their help, concern and suggested solutions. This is really a great forum.
Paul aka Porky

sdman · April 2000

I drove over a trailer hitch while backing up last weekend, and it ripped a nice hole in the sidewall of my rear passenger tire. I have four 265, raised white letter (RWL) tires on my truck.

When I dropped the spare, I noticed, as bowhuntwi did, that the spare is same size as my RWL tires, but has a black sidewall.

BTW, for all, changing the tire on this beast we not as tough as I though it would be. I had the most trouble getting the little spare tire key do-hickey to click onto the end of the jack handle, and then getting the spare tire key to engage into the crank mechanism at the rear of the truck.

New tire cost me $128 installed at the local Firestone shop. When the kid at the shop cranked my spare back up, he did so with the air valve pointing down. The Ford book specifically says that the valve should be up (to protect it, I suppose), but I was thinking that if the valve is down, I can easily check the tire pressure and refill the spare if necessary.

I've been debating cranking the tire down and flipping it over. Easy access to the air valve is appealing, but a damaged air valve is not. I don't do much off roading, so I believe that valve damage is a remote possibility. What do you all think?

sgknox · April 2000

Does anyone have any experience with improving v10 mileage? Tire pressure, chips, better air filters, canopies , tonneaus, anything else? Do brush guards hurt mileage?

northpole1 · April 2000

sdman: My spare tire valve stems have always pointed down for access. I've never had one beat up while in that position. It occurs to me that if a person got into something that would cause the valve stem to get torn off, they'd have bigger problems than a flat spare. My 2 cents.

sgknox: The only way I could get my V-10's mileage to go up was to drive my wife's car more often...just a joke; sorry.

bowhuntwi · April 2000

I checked both sides, the valve stems points down, if I hit something off roading and it damaged that valve stem, I would think I would be in a world of hurt with other things. I won't ask how you ran over a trailer hitch. But it seems if all Ford offers in 265's are white lettered tires, they would surely give you a spare with one.
Is anyone having problems with their new cup holders when closing, that you just can't close them, you gotta give it a quick shove. Plus I have leather seats, my driver's side started flaking about a week after arriving, figured I should take it to the dealer right away, or they would say I had done something to cause it. Other then that, it's a Hunter's Limo. 00 CC Lariat 4x4 woodland green 5.4 4.10LS.......14.4 Highway last trip 70 on cruise. loaded but not towing.

koakey · April 2000

adubahbi - I'd push your dealer a bit. My truck was ordered before a price increase (level 017?) and delivered after the increase (this was the increase at the end of December). When the dealer got the actual invoice for the truck it reflected the post-December price increase (as well as a fuel cost increase over the VOC). I questioned the sales rep about this and he remembered telling me that I'd pay the pre-increase price. He talked to whoever at the dealership and I paid the price as we'd discussed, pre-increase and original fuel charge.

bowhuntwi - I seem to remember seeing this discussed on www.ford-diesel.com and I believe the consensus is that the spare is black lettered even if the 4 mounted tires are white lettered.

jaybird52 · April 2000

There was a price increase for my truck between the time I ordered and delivery.....dealer didn't even ask me to pay the increase, nor would I have payed it.

gmace · April 2000

Referring to #291 - Mileage pulling an ~5000 lb travel trailer was averaging 8.0 based on round trip Flagstaff, AZ to Coalinga, California. The trip was nearly all Interstate type driving. I hurt mileage on the way back up by driving 80 across the Mojave Desert. The trip was what I could consider mountains (not flat). Last summer pulled the same trailer up around Ouray, CO. Performance was hampered by the trailer but was acceptable. It was unusual that the pedal was on the floor. At 8000' elev. the turbocharged diesel should perform better but so far no regrets. V10 4x4 CC LWB 3.73LS auto. If I towed more often I would have ordered 4.30LS with the V10.

bobh12 · April 2000

V-10 Mileage, I have seen some posts on the Excursion Board where some folks have installed a K&N filter and gotten better mileage. I think "Crazy Elvis" put one in his SD maybe he can give you some info.

My F-150 (97 and Y2K) and 98 Expedition have raised white letters and the three spares were blackwall. I think it is standard for Ford to do that.

dwucher · April 2000

It's the clunking guy again. Still haven't figured that one out(I know bess thinks I'm anal). Have a ford mechanic freind, and we will crawl under and find it for sure. Just washed the beast after 9 days. Guess what? Rail dust!!! Checked the entire body, and it only seems to be on the hood and front fenders. I have harvest gold, and it was hard to spot at first. But beleive me it's there. And it does not look good. Anything that I can't rub off must be stuck pretty bad. Check your trucks. I will tell the dealer about it this week. Sounds like the acid wash(tsb) is the way to go, but I'm not sure yet. I just want to get it in writing, as well as the clunking, that I brought it in. Later.

Ford Super Duty Continued - VII

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