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Ford Super Duty Continued - VII
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Both Beckel and Cr133r, check out www.ford-diesel.com ; the 'Ordering Information' forum. There have been rumors of what is different in the 2001 and also many discussions of dealers with good deals and good allocation (which frequently translates to good delivery - depending on what commodities you're looking for (tranny, cab, engine, etc).
Dave
If you have a dealer that has large allotments, delivery times are in the 8 to 12 week range..
Its when the dealer is ordering outside their allotments then the wait times can be extreme..
I think there are some cases, where individual dealerships that have low allotments, will 'reserve' their allotment slots for folks who pay more.. This is done basically by a. dealer not really submitting the order, or b. the dealer putting in a very low priority number (higher the number= lower priority) The dealer is allowed to put priority 10 (best they can do) for any truck they order.. IMHO, those are poorly run dealerships that are not customer oriented.
Remember, FoMoCo gets the same amount of money regardless of how much over invoice you pay, so its strictly a dealer issue..
If you deal with quality dealerships that have good allotments, theres no relationship between price paid and delivery times..
I got my truck in under 8 weeks, for a settled price of $100 over invoice.. (actual ended up $400 under cause of a local rebate).
My '00 F-250 SD, Regular Cab, Lariat, V-10 is finally parked in the driveway! The vehicle was ordered on 29 October, built in the wrong color on 1 December, then reordered on 2 December. It was built in the right color on 10 January, put on a big ship on 18 February, and delivered to Bremerhaven Germany on the 10th of March. I picked it up in Bremerhaven yesterday at 9 AM. The 600 mile return to England took me through Germany, Holland, Belguim, France (across the English Channel), and home to England. I arrived home at 9 PM tired as heck! I got 13 MPG averaged over the entire trip. I had to buy gas in Holland. It cost $2.86/gallon.
More later,
Ray in Sunny England...
Still averaging about 12.9 mixed driving, gas dropped to 1.48.9 for regular, getting my cap looked at on Saturday by the ARE Rep., plus there doing the grill guard.
how are people's reaction to your truck there?
and besides the obvious, these trucks are a little different than most cars. cars come pretty much fully equipped (when's the last time you saw a car with "roll-down" windows?) & many (including ourselves) are not quite as particular about the config. therefore, it's more likely that you can accept something in the floor plan somewhere that will be "close enough".
not so with the "beasts". most of us ordering need an EXACT config which precludes something out of stock that may be close. "Close" becomes NOT quite close enough and that's what makes the difference. so later in the model year, you wait because you not only "want" a certain config, it's also the only one that is viable for your specific situation.
now. saying all this I'll stick my neck out a little more in regard to all those waiting on v10's. these configs are VERY much in demand (how many are on lots?) and ALL orders on them are obviously really "tight". as a dealer, would you rather order one of these HOT items for your dealership (to subsequently sell at "top dollar")... or would you rather order one (thus taking it out of your "tight" allotment) for some bloke to support an "invoice" sale? supply, demand, possibly greed, even survival, essentially "creates" the problem here. and the internet is adding fuel to the fire. why? because we (the public) are "armed-to-the-teeth" with data that is "on-the-money". in the past a dealer could "snow you" because you really didn't know what THEY were paying for what they were selling. now, not even the option codes are "hidden". not even the holdback is hidden. the dealer thus has a hell of problem because we're holding all the "guns" AND all the "bullets"! if they try to "squeeze" just ONE percentage point out of a deal, they know that WE know about it. so what happens is that they'd MUCH rather sell to someone off the street that does NOT walk in with a stack of edmund's (and others) "nasty" papers. the REAL problem here is that more and more people will continue to do just that. and for one, I would NOT want to own a dealership in this day with no place to "run". no place to "hide".
Anyone got anything good or bad to say about Ford molded splash guards and wraparound bug shield. Dealer install???thanks
Jeff L.
For those waiting on V10's but considering the PSD, I'll post the experiences to date with mine (1800 miles). This is the first diesel that I have owned, and I have to admit that I went back and forth several times (like Mainecowgirl deciding on a color) before I ordered the PSD.
The Rants:
1. It's noisy. Not as bad as some of the older diesels on the road, but without question louder than a gasser. Once the engine warms up it smooths out some, but it's still loud on acceleration. It's really pretty quiet cruising at highway speeds. BTW - it's not so loud that you cannot hold a normal conversation while driving.
2. Oil changes cost a lot more. An oil change means using 15 quarts of oil.
3. The diesel smell. This is a very small rant, but included for completeness. I was worried about the truck stinking up my garage, but after a couple of months I say that except for a wiff now and then, it's really not a problem.
4. The extra $3900 bucks. It's an expensive option. FWIW, there is a "mileage calculator" spreadsheet on www.ford-diesel.com that is supposed to show you where the "break-even" point between the V10 and PSD engine falls. I filled it out being as honest as I could with the numbers, and it says that the Diesel will have paid itself off after 54K miles. YMMV.
The Raves:
1. Gas mileage. After 1800 miles I am getting 15.7 MPG (according to the overhead computer). My config. is a F250, CC, 4X4, 3.73LS, Auto Trans. This is a combination in town and some highway driving. I am basically commuting 15 miles each way to/from work. I have heard others say that once the engine fully breaks in, I can expect around 18MPH. The mileage has been climbing since I bought the truck so I am hopeful. Right now, it's kinda cool seeing all those "small" Jeep Cherokee's and knowing that I am getting the same or better gas mileage than they are :-) BTW, in the Seattle area, Diesel costs the same as regular unleaded, and is readily available.
2. The Power. This baby can haul. The power is unbelieveable. We have both a camper and a horse trailer and the PSD pulls both like they are not even attached.
3. The Sound. While it's loud, I have to admit that the PSD sounds really cool.
I am interested to see what other PSD or V10 owners have to say about their trucks...
As I was driving through France, I got lots of thumbs up and smiles. When I drove in my neighborhood this afternoon, about 20 kids followed me and the truck to my driveway for a look. Otherwise, there have been lots of people that flat stop and stare.
Ray, in Sunny England.
awe ..must be like a giant to them
btw, to anyone who's interested, Kenne Bell's
coming out with a Whipplecharger for the V10 in
a few weeks (i hope.. because in fact, it's
already done and my mech friend has "beta tested"
it, just need the packaging, etc)
I am so intrigued that you have a F250 in England. I have spent a bit of time there and have a British brother-in-law, and I just can't picture a truck like that negotiating some of those narrow country lanes! What exactly is your use for that truck there...not that you need an excuse to have a great truck like that? BTW are you yourself a Brit?
I got a little nervous in some of the garages there as far as height, especilly in Golden Nugget, about 2" of clearance.
I usually run 87 octane and have no complaints, but one time I filled up with 93 and saw no real improvement in power or milage.
For those looking in Texas, try Grande Ford in San Antoino or Bluebonnet in New Braunfels.
I put lots of mile on the truck yesterday, running typical pickup truck errands. My girlfriend is remodelling her kitchen so we were at the Home Depot-like store and half filled the bed with stuff. Later, the floor covering dealer called and we went round and picked up the Linoleum roll. It would have never fit in a tiny British car. Today, we'll be making a dump run. So you can see a pickup comes in just as handy in England. No pulling enormous Horse trailers for me. By the way, the brits consider a Nissan Pathfinder the most capable towing vehicle, and you often see them pulling horse trailers. You are right about the country lanes being narrow. Even my Honda Civic was too big to pass another vehicle in some of those, so I am not in the penalty box with the SD. You just have to pull off to the side and creep by the oncoming car. By the way, I am an American stationed here with the forces, and not a Brit. I am located at RAF Alconbury which is exactly 60 miles north of London. I bought the truck through Overseas Military Sales, affiliated with the Base Exchange (AAFES). They are a distributor for Ford, so the orders don't take the same route as dealer orders. According to OMSC, they usually go to the head of the line with their orders, but very rarely, the dealers have higher priorities. (That's why I could place an order on 29OCT and the was truck built on 1DEC! Unfortunately it was the wrong color.) By the way, my truck had the shipping shims in the front leafs, has no cackle or piston slap (so far) and isn't squeeking (yet)! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Regards,
Ray in Sunny (really) England.
'00 F-250 SD SC, Lariat, V-10, 4.3:1, Bright Amber Clearcoat Metallic.
Result: Rear antilocks pulsed away, and amazingly enough the fronts didn't lock until just before I stopped.. I haven't gone back yet to see how far I slid, but no more than few feet.
Truck tracked straight on, no pull whatsoever to either side.
In the last instant of the skid, the deer bolted and cleared the truck but no more than 3 feet.
I looked back to make sure the motorcycle in the bed didn't come loose.
I'm not sure if I flatspotted the fronts yet, but I don't care if they are. A few new tires are cheap compared to getting body work done.. Plus you don't have to worry about matching paint, lines etc..
Ive kicked in the antilock rears on the truck several times just under 'normal' braking if your going down hill on a rough road and braking for a turn off.
Nice bag.
I have 2040 miles on my beast now and have changed oil & filter twice (personal choice to change break in oil frequently). On a V-10, 6qts of oil will bring the level into the checkered area between "add" and "max" marks. 6 1/2qts will bring it right up to the "max" mark and 7qts will definitely be OVER on my unit. We talked about this MANY posts back. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar results. Thanks, Paul
1. have/do other diesel operators out there have winter mix in their area, and if so, experienced the same dip in mileage?
2. what other fuel additives are others using in their diesels, and what type of results are you experiencing?
this last bit is for you sunscreen - have had a gmc sub for 6 years with the T-dsl and it has been a great truck. always starts (even at -25f), never plugged in, quiet and gets good mileage (16-18) even now with 115k miles on it. in fact, it's such a good truck, that my wonderful wife is going to get it when my 00/350/cc/4x4/srw/sb/green/xlt and some other stuff, arrives in the next couple of weeks.
I have had 2 oil changes....I go to Mr. P's...down the road a bit....<<V10>>....both times they have put in 6 1/2 quarts of the penzoil 5w30.....I know it says 7 in the book...but 6 1/2 does fill er' up.
Now how do I contact Ford and complain about my duffel bag????!!!!!!!
Also, on the Hallmark card, they apologized for the fact that I wasn't completly satisfied..
Funny part was, I wasn't all that negative.. The dealer professional, delivery was prompt (7+ weeks). The only comment I made was the fact that when I ordered the truck, the salesman assured me several times that the XLT had 4w abs standard.. (Although I knew better, because of forums like this).
Still waiting on the '00 SD SC V-10 SB.
http://home.rmi.net/~roakey/koakey/topper.jpg
Just pretend the truck is clean.
sherwoodfor, check out
http://www.ford-diesel.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000852.html
for an interesting discussion of the Stanadyne additive. Stanadyne seems to be the preferred diesel fuel conditioner on the www.ford-diesel.com web page. You can order cases from DIS ( www.dieselpage.com ). Seems like cold and/or poor fuel quality benefits from Stanadyne (don't know anything about the additive you're adding but sounds like it should work similarly).
http://home.rmi.net/~roakey/koakey/Topper.jpg
should work... sorry 'bout that
mainecowgirl, forgot to post "nice evasive driving" yesterday. you probably know that deer always come in packs of 2+. it's not the first one that will get caught on your bumper, it's usually one of the followers...
btw, for a clean truck sans topper...
http://home.rmi.net/~roakey/koakey/f250dog.jpg
The guard dog is our Bouvier
Some got one ... one got three ... three got none (bess, crazyelvis, me) .... sounds like that new math.
8 weeks order to delivery. Talked to the owner of the dealership while I was picking it up (he wanted to shake MY hand!), and he said it's all in the allocations. Dealers who sell a lot of trucks get good ("10") allocations. Dealers who sell a few trucks get crappy allocations. It's not a V-10 problem or a AT problem or anything else. The factories have a finite amount of production capability and that limit is being reached, but the "10s" will be built before the "80s".
Billingsley Ford, Lawton OK, $100 over invoice. Talk to Carl. Danged good dealership all the way around.
Later.
I don't always believe salespeople, but I do listen to them. My local dealer can only order SDs if they can show they are for customers. Their allotment is seperated into customer ordered trucks and trucks for the lot. Do I believe the saleguy on this? He has nothing to loose telling me this, so it may actually be true.
Anyways, the fact is, I'm not going to pay a dealer a rediculous amount of money(profit) because the trucks are hard to find. Call me an [non-permissible content removed] if you wish, but its my money, and I'm sure there are a bunch of people out there that feel the same way.
If I find a truck at invoice price, that would be awesome. I am willing to pay over invoice, but not willing to pay a lot over invoice.
Also, based on the Washington Post article a referenced a few posts ago, the dealers do have say in how FoMoCo handles order, despite the fact that FoMoCo makes the same profit on every truck.
What your salesperson was believable. They will only order trucks if they have a customer for it..
However, this doesn't mean that they have allotments for all of the customer orders. It does mean that they are trying to save the allotment slots they do have for paying customers.
BUT, (and there's always a BUT), this mode may make it difficult for a dealership to handle the situation where there is a sudden increase in the popularity of the vehicle. Because, allotment numbers are based on previous orders from that dealership. (chicken vs egg.. i know)
Dealerhips often order trucks (without customers) for the lot, this could be risky if they dont sell, but it does help their allotments for the future..
So, those dealerships that took 'risk' early on and ordered alot of SuperDuty's made out, because they were popular, and they now have larger allotments.
Those dealership that played it more conservative, ended up with lower allotments, and a demand that generally exceeded their allotment.
This would explain much of what we've seen on this forum:
-Not all dealerships are the same. It depends on how they are run.
- Larger dealerships generally seem to have higher allotments for SuperDutys than very small ones. (they had more capital to risk).
- Truck only dealerships tend have even larger allotments for Superdutys. (they mostly cater to industry who's requirements are for heavy duty utility trucks).
This all somehow makes sense in my mind..
oh man. thats scary..
I ordered mine on 10-13-99 and received it on
12-2-99 one day latter than promised, at $800 over invoice. I got the PSD which might be the reason i got it that quick. It seems that those of you that order the V-10 have the longest wait.
But who knows it could be almost anything.
mainecowgirl whats the latest with your order?
Is it still ago, or is your dealer giving you the runaround again?
I hope everyone gets their trucks soon, these are great trucks and worth waiting for.
John
sherwoodfor-The evasive driving award goes to Bess. He was the writer of that post. You are so right though, deer always travel in twos or more. I had someone tell me that when I first started driving, and it has saved me more than a few times here in Maine.
jraske-I am still "submitted to the factory," no build date as of yet. Low allotment dealer, but I don't really mind. We are just entering our mud season. I would just as soon get my new truck after its over. I am getting used to the thought of telling people I have an "oh-one" rather than having to say a "two thousand" so many more syllables! I wonder if an order submitted to factory now can turn into a 2001 if enough time goes by? Thanks for the thoughts.
lewac-You're still my hero!
Anybody know what this means? My VIN starts with a "1", doesn't this mean made in Kentucky?. Seem to recall someone mentioning something about this about a million posts back...
y2k 250SD CC LB Lariat 4x4, v10 auto 265s 3.73LS green/gold etc.
y2k 350 CC XLT 4X4 V10 Auto SWB Camper, Tow etc..