Audi A4 2005+

dino001 · April 2005

I would love to read what people asked and what where the questions and aswers to Mr. Trahan...

pat · April 2005

It hasn't been posted yet, but it will be soon. Stay tuned and I'll give you a link when it shows up.

cyberpmg · April 2005

While this doesn't address the current issues about the complaint of Tip lag by the owners, I have heard talk that Audi is working hard to phase out the Tiptronic transmission from all Audis in the next 5-6 years. The goal is to replace it with DSG that currently is used in the TT 3.2 and will be in the A3 Sportback 3.2.

There's a twofold reason behind the plan. First, DSG doesn't have the dreaded Tip lag. There's also no torque converter found in other automatic trannys that limit and reduce power to the wheels. Second is that the DSG transmission is 100% Audi designed and owned. Tiptronic is a design who's technology is still owned by Porsche (i.e. R&D and royalty fees go to Porsche).

I have a feeling that there's not much that can be done about the Tip lag problem. What we should to is to encourage Audi to spend more R&D into DSG so that it can be offered sooner to replace the Tiptronic transmission.

markcincinnati · April 2005

Broadening the manual transmission line up too would be welcome. The BMW's: 3 and 5, for instance -- which should compete with the A4 and A6 both come with a choice of transmissions, including manual. Only the luxury offerings come with ONLY automatics.

I get the sense that most people don't know how easy these fine high end German cars are to drive with "contemporary" manual shift transmissions.

Whenever I mention manual shift to people they often say "oh I just hate to hear the gears grind." When and where do these people get this notion? Sure I could probably figure out a way to grind my 2003 Audi's gears, but it is really difficult to imagine doing so without thinking about it.

The latest and greatest Audi stick shifts are smooth, powerful and increase both the milage and the performance over the tiptronics.

Maybe the CVT or the DSG has more profit in it -- that would be a reason to shift to these (no pun intended). The tip keeps being upped in gears and features and intelligence and then when it behaves as it is programmed, a lot of us don't care for it.

There never was any lag in my 1963 Chrysler Newport's TorqueFlyte transmission (pushbuttons on the dash, as opposed to three on the tree or four on the floor).

We're just a bunch of lazy consumers -- which is fine, but we aren't even given the chance to decide to shift anymore -- that is the real pity.

aec11 · April 2005

Marc said production of A4 3.2 manual six-speed would start in September 2005. Dealers would begin taking orders for it sometime over the summer, which I take to mean May, June, or July.

markcincinnati · April 2005

My dealer will take an order for one now.

bigpapaluke · April 2005

I could not agree with you more (re: the decision to shift). I did not learn to drive a manual until I was in my early 20s, and it wasn't until then that I realized what I've been missing in a vehicle: control. So when the new A4 decided it's 3.2 engine would first come out in an automatic, I was stunned and extremely disappointed. It's the same look on my face when I see a Jeep Wrangler on the road and it's an automatic. Makes me think, "What are you thinking?" :confuse: Did anyone ask the question (and the answer may be in this forum and I havent located it) why Audi went in this direction for their 3.2 model? Am curious to know if they have a canned response for that.

With that said, I did check out the 2.0T with the manual this past weekend and I was pleasantly surprised. I thought the acceleration on the FSI engine was very peppy, and the handling was pretty tight. I didn't take it down a curvy road (mainly city driving), but for stop and go traffic, it did just fine. It's forced me to rethink the direction I want to go in for my next vehicle purchase as it pertains to power.

Mark et al - thanks for confirming the projected release date of the manual transmission on the 3.2. Guess I'll have to wait a little while longer before I make a decision. In conjunction Mark, your posts are extremely insightful and thought provoking. If I wasn't real busy at work, they would definitely be worth further banter.

aec11 · April 2005

Mine will as well, except Audi's automated order entry system does not yet show the six-speed manual as an option. That should change between now and July at the latest.

aec11 · April 2005

I had the same reaction as you on Audi's decision to discontinue, temporarily at least, the manual six-speed on the 3.2. Not certain of their canned response for the A4, but Marc Trahan did say in a chat room on the A6 last November that it came down to a business decision - most of their customers want automatics, so they can't justify the expense of keeping the manual going. I guess the same thing happened with the A4 except too many of their customers (like you and me) complained, so they've brought it back beginning in September.

markcincinnati · April 2005

Now this statement that our customers want automatics -- even if we don't personally agree with it -- is the right thing to say. However, it does make me wonder if a lot of people are like me: I'll take an automatic, if given a choice, I'll take the manual first -- hands down.

My wife, I am certain, will go down kicking and screaming holding onto the manual transmission until they just plain cannot be had at any price.

I guess some would say I have settled for an AUTO, in that my final choices, my final serious choices, heck, even my final not so serious choices ALL ONLY came with auto trans (the exception was that I could have waited for the A4 3.2 S-Line and ordered it with a stick, and ditto the BMW 3 or 5 (so I am told).)

The final choice that I made was really down to the A6 3.2 and the M35x -- both were auto only cars. My wife went from an Audi TT (3 in a row) to a BMW X3 -- I'll bet she would have taken the A4 3.2 stick (even for $100 more) than a more expensive at MSRP BMW yet cheaper to lease by $128 per month.

Are/is auto transmission(s) a self fulfilling kind of thing? When I grew up and got into cars (which was in the 1960's) most stick shift cars were the bottom of the line cars -- a Plymouth Valiant without carpet or A/C springs to mind. Yet when I first saw "foreign cars," they all had stick shifts and were only driven by the most "out there" people. My first experience was with a guy who owned a BMW "Bavaria" and an Audi Silver Fox and a Porsche 944 turbo and an Olds Toronado -- his fave was the BMW. I worked for him and he let me use the Audi as "the company car." A silver fox was the most sporty car I had ever driven and it was the second or third stick shift I had ever driven (the others were Chrysler products, like the aforementioned Plymouth) -- this transmission got me to believe that sticks were the best.

My theory is that many or most American drivers never got the extreme pleasure of experiencing a fine manual transmission.

And here we are.

Audis decision to bring the A4 3.2 to the US first as an auto is darn near incomprehensible, despite my "understanding of the business case" as stated, apparently, by Marc.

Yet the crowd that I run with and that I read here there and everywhere on the WWW -- seems to be fans of shifting. This just doesn't make sense. But if the financials support the auto and not the stick, well we have to go with the the majority, right?

Premium cars without stick shifts are almost gone -- more's the pity.

bigpapaluke · April 2005

Hopefully Johnny Hall Monitor will allow me to digress briefly on the Auto vs Manual discussion . . . .

To piggy back on one of your points Mark (i.e. the crowd within the forum and on the web) - the individuals whom you speak of are those that do the research, are those that understand the ins and outs of the vehicle before making a purchase, and more importantly, are fans of driving cars, not riding in cars (novel concept, people driving a car). Yes, I know everyone within this discussion knows how to literally drive a car, but what I speak of are those that enjoy maximizing a cars performance and capabilities via a manual. That sense of control that I mentioned in my previous post.

But from what I've been hearing in this discussion as well as in the market when I test drive these cars, the manual transmission is not driving (pun intended) consumers to the dealership. In my opinion, those that are wanting the premium cars have more dollars than sense, and want to own a calibur vehicle like this for the sake of owning one, not for the sake (or maybe partially) of knowing what the car can do. So as much as it hurts to wait, I understand Marc's position of making a business decision, because they are in the business of making money and pushing products out the door in order to support the demand. They are still great products, but it does cause me to question what is the manufacturer's committment (long term) to maintaining the "niche" for the die hards out there (hense me considering and leaning heavily towards BMW).

I digress . . . fortunately for me, I'm not in a rush to purchase one. It's more of a want than a need at this point. So I can patiently wait until the fall to try out the 3.2 with the stick.

joxer1 · April 2005

My wife and I too have only owned manual transmission cars. When I started driving I could occasionally drive the Pontiac with the 400 under the hood w/auto, but mainly it was the Rabbit knockoff Horizon (replete with VW engine and 4 speed tranny, crappy chrysler stuff on top of that and scary bad snap oversteer) at my disposal. With very limited hp (78?) an auto would have killed that car. My student cars were of similar bent, a Mazda GLC and an 83 Accord Hatchback (1.5 litre engines in both). The small displacement plus the amount of winter driving in eastern Canada made me really appreciate the manual transmission.

Today because of a parts screwup I'm driving a loaner from the dealer - a BMW 320i sedan w/auto (I think this is a 2.2 or 2.4 inline 6) in place of my 323i manual. It doesn't even feel like I'm drving a BMW, just riding around and pointing this thing in the right direction. It is actually pretty good at getting its power down around town due to the gearing and is 'easy to drive' there, but I feel like I'm in an Accord. Once on the highway, its unable to find sufficient power with the auto, hunting up and down and making little progress when you want it. It reminds me of the K-car my father had - I was pretty sure when you mashed the pedal it didn't go faster, just made it louder. I think this car with a manual and a sport suspension would be a fine little package if not the fastest car on the street. But don't even get me going about the 'leatherette', made from plastic cows I suppose. This shows me that the BMW market is more about buying image rather than about the Ultimate Driving Machine - cloth I don't think is even an option anymore as the yuppie wannabe's get leatherette hoping no one will notice the startling similarity to a 72 Bug rather than a Jaguar! Case in point - my BMW dealer doesn't have a single demo in manual. Not just in a 3, either - NONE of their demo's is a stick. My wife and I laughed at the dealer at the Toronto auto show that claimed it wasn't really a BMW unless it had a sunroof! Yeah, that's what really sets BMW apart, the fine sunroof engineering.

At least my Audi dealer had a manual tranny 2.0T right from the start. Perusing the classified and the Audi certified webpages shows a lot of hits on 1.8T manuals, probably as many or more than autos. So it seems that at least in the 4 cylinder crowd there are more than a couple of enthusiasts out there, which gives me some hope. I flat out won't buy an auto, which puts me out of the 3.2 hunt for now, but honestly I'd like the range that the 2.0T gives anyway (the manager at Audi with an S4 claims he fills it every 3 days!). The only real qualm I have isn't about the performance potential but more in the low end, where you can just lug a 6 around the 4 may be a bit less accomodating.

It does seem like on the Audiworld page that more people are interested in autos and Nav and bluetooth than I would expect of a supposed enthusiast crowd though. I really just don't see people without a business need for the Nav having an ongoing use for such an expensive trinket - once the initial wow wears off it will just be ignored until the screen starts having a problem. One guy on there said he wouldn't drive a car without a Nav system and he admitted he doesn't need it to find where he's going.

Small comment on Mark's point on driving good manual transmission cars - don't ever drive a RWD Mazda with a manual transmission if you think a BMW or Audi has a good stick/clutch. I've never driven anything else that was as good as these cars, from my 81 Rx-7 to my 99 Miata. They are simply amazing. Mind you I haven't driven the sportier BMW and Audi models, but their sedans are nothing like those sports cars.

I still think I'm going to end up with a 2.0T Avant at some point, its just a matter of when. With Marc Trahan saying that the iPod integration will be available with June production I may put an order in to have one built in that timeframe. Not that my car is nothing but an iPod accessory but I probably won't get going on it until that point anyway so I might as well wait an extra month and get that feature as my entire family has their own iPods. 40 minutes either way to/from work can get you plenty bored of the shock jocks and/or the same 6 cds that seem to find their way into your car and never get switched out.

cyberpmg · April 2005

I think American drivers prefer automatics over a manual transmission is due to several factors. Like Mark said, while growing up, if you got a stick, it was a base model of American car. When you moved up, you switched over to an automatic.

Also, since there's more cars on the road in the US, there's more traffic. Many people hate having to constantly row the gears in constant stop and go traffic.

American drivers are, for the most part, lazy and put more demand on creature comforts over performance needs. That's why are highways have lower grades and larger turning radiuses to turn driving into a more mundane process. By switching to an automatic transmission frees the driver to engage in other tasks (playing with the stereo, HVAC, cell phone, hair dryer, etc.).

I'll stop here as this can go deeper into another topic for another forum.

Something else I've heard that is open for discussion is that I've heard that Audi is planning for future high performance models (S and RS) to only be offered with DSG and no more manual. Their reason behind it is a better ability to handle the horsepower and torque load on the transmission. I know this doesn't apply to the new RS4 as that's already being built with manual and DSG.

I'm glad that manuals are coming out for the A4 3.2. Without DSG available, I'll never go back to Tip.

dino001 · April 2005

I suspect it is dealers who don't want manual on their lots, not customers. Manual transmission is a perfect example of "risk management" by dealers. Auto is a safe bet: it is much easier to convince somebody wanting stick to settle for auto ("I'I give you $1000 discount, so you get more for less") than vice versa. Auto is seen by many as an "upgrade", than there is a blah blah blah about depreciation of manuals, etc. There is a small percentage of people who would actually walk away from the car they otherwise may like, if it does not meet their initial wishes, especially when offered a "deal". But is it really a deal, if you don't get what you want? I don't think so, but apparently many do...

This kind of thinking of dealers knowing better what is good for you is present across the board, from downscale to upscale market. It is next to impossible to find a manual station wagon, no matter the brand. Try to get basic engine of any "nonpremium" car with some of good and not so optional expensive safety features that anybody thinking straight would be willing to pay for if offered for immediate delivery (e.g. side impact airbags, ABS, fog lights). Instead, you are likely to see power windows and leather (useful but not necessary in a cheap car), not to mentions overpriced (and totally useless) dealer-installed "protection" packages or idiotic bazooka subwoofers. Again, risk management.

Manufacturers see those orders from their dealers and come to conclusion there is no demand out there. I think, perhaps demand is not great, but it is managed down by the dealers.

markcincinnati · April 2005

I really want to agree with this line of thinking. I suspect if my Audi dealer had a sample of every car that could be had in a manual on the lot, that those cars would be the last to sell.

The few manuals they get in are often pretty stripped down versions, maybe with "premium" pack on them and little else. The deal is that the customers probably really don't want sticks -- my dealer said he purchased as many manual transmission A6's as possible one year -- and he couldn't even use them as loaners because too many people will not drive sticks, period.

It is confusing sometimes when you watch the adverts on TV and cars are often shown with the driver shifting away or the voice over will say "you can shift just like a manual" in our bla bla bla super zippy new car.

The manual transmission "image" sells the cars, apparently. But when the money hits the road, it is for an Automatic equipped car.

I do agree that it is often easier to get someone who wants a manual to acquire an auto than the other way around.

bellamusica · April 2005

I agree (sadly) that many Americans prefer automatic to manual for a variety of reasons that you state. I also feel that the shift (pun not intended) toward automatics is due to a demographic move that is building momentum. Many people I know have automatics because they never learned how to drive a manual. They in turn teach their children to drive on an automatic transmission because they have no manual car nor can they teach their kids to drive.

There are many benefits in my state to sending your child to a drivers education company. What kind of cars do they use for instruction? Automatics. Thus the trend continues.

I for one feel it is my duty as a car driver to teach my son on a manual transmission, if for no other reason that he understands why I prefer it and enjoy it. Oh, and we travel to Europe quite a bit. When he is old enough I would like him to share in the rental car driving (manuals, manuals everywhere).

pat · April 2005

Daily commutes in heavy traffic has caused many a manual enthusiast to go with an auto.

dino001 · April 2005

I commute with manual with a short-throw shifter (Impreza WRX) and for me it actually works better than automatic I used to have. Nothing more annoting than a "confused" shifting 2 gears back and forth while changing lanes on congested interstate (I have to change two lanes in short distance). Oh, I forgot: slowing to a right turn, leaving the turn on crawling third gear, pressing accelerator harder to get a little more, dropping to first instead of second, just to shift up after two seconds :sick: All with big jerking of the car back and forth. I admit, it was a cheap Ford Escort, I cannot say much about autos on better cars, but I bet I can get them confused with ease. "__tronics" can somewhat alleviate this, of course.

Ultimately, I can see why people get automatics and have no problem with that. I am just a bit frustrated that my somewhat unique preferences (hatchback/wagon, strong engine, manual, decent safety features, bright colors) are being pushed out of the market more and more. At the time I am financially ready to get one of those German engineering wonders, there won't be any available, even by special order.

pat · April 2005

Not to get too far off-topic, but I confess I succumbed. My left leg was getting worn out, along with the clutch in this stop and go crawl they call rush hour traffic that I deal with daily.

I agree with you, though - it's very aggravating to see manual transmissions disappearing.

markcincinnati · April 2005

I do not find one transmission vs another to be an issue in traffic. But, I do have hands and eyes free voice activated cell phone, so I do not need to actually touch my phone while driving. I can keep my eyes on the road and my hands on the machine, so to speak.

Every time one of us settles (not really) for an auto (as I just did with my M35x and as I would have with an Audi A6, for that matter) it is just another nail in the coffin.

The autos are much better in terms of putting power to the road than they used to be -- but I still wonder how much I'm giving up with my new M because it ONLY comes in Automatic.

The price of progress?

pat · April 2005

>>Every time one of us settles (not really) for an auto (as I just did with my M35x and as I would have with an Audi A6, for that matter) it is just another nail in the coffin.

While I mostly agree with you, this also becomes a chicken or the egg question. You can't buy what they aren't selling and even if it might be somehow technically possible to buy (order) it, the industry and society have placed so many impediments in the way - most of which you folks have quite eloquently expressed.

dhanley · April 2005

I think it's part of the endemic laziness of our culture. I just read an article today about how there's a boom in people using personal assistants to do what used to be simple everyday tasks. In life, one has to work harder for superior results. More power, control, and economy is a superior result. No doubt about that. The question is, are we willing to learn to flip a little stick and move our foot a little to achieve that end? I interview people ( for jobs ) and the level of intellectual laziness just astounds me sometimes. There is a correlation!

rml583 · April 2005

Does anyone know if the amaretto colored leather or any additional colors besides black, gray and beige leather are available on the 2.0T? How easy is it to order any additional colors for the interior?

markcincinnati · April 2005

Several months ago before my wife and I both "left the Audi nest" we placed a "soft order" for a new A4. We ordered, and I think this is correct, Phantom Black Metallic exterior and Amaretto leather interior. These colors are not in the US Audi brochure.

We were allowed to order it -- there was an extra charge of some $4,000 however for this. The paint alone was $2,500. Previously I had ordered Pearl White for some Audis and had been quoted $1250. The current trend is to allow and charge (big time).

As the saying goes, "it all depends on the thickness of the stack of $100 dollar bills."

We passed.

mariobgoode · April 2005

I have always drived manuals and had never been persuaded to convert to auto. I did own an auto at one time (a Dodge van, to be precise) and hated it from day one. I settled for the auto in this case because of resale considerations, delay in availability of a manual, etc. I share some posters' observation that drivers today are lazy, especially the young ones.

I prefer manuals because of one single thing: control. I always get sheer driving pleasure from going through the gears, just like the high-speed drivers in the movies. The fact that the fuel economy is better is a plus, as well as the fact that my cars don't get borrowed very much because they are all manuals. I am not too inconvenienced by the frequent shifting of gears in traffic because I don't drive long distances on a daily basis, since I take public transportation to work. But even if I did, I guess it is a small price to pay for what I want.

My college-age daughter who learned to drive 2 years ago wanted an auto for her first car because she was just learning to drive and can't handle the extra stress of learning the gear shift protocols. Now that she has 2 years under her belt, she is asking for a manual for one thing: better control of the vehicle. I suspect she also doesn't want her friends to borrow her car whenever they need to go somewhere.

Maybe I am wrong, and this could be debatable, but I think people who drive manuals are more careful than other drivers. This may be because they are always more aware of (or attuned to) what the car is doing, and have better control of the vehicle.

Be that as it may, happy motoring to everyone. Buy what you like and enjoy the ride. Of course, drivers of manual transmission cars would doubtless have more fun.

macmurdo · April 2005

Hi everyone... I'm a newbie considering moving from Lexus GS to Audi A4 to get into AWD without breaking the bank. I've looked at the current 05.5 version and like what I see with a couple of reservations... 1) no passenger seat memory settings (minor problem really) & 2) lack of availability of the "advanced key" (push button on/off with key in your pocket) available on higher models and now in Lexus, BMW and Infiniti comparible models.

Does anyone have any "advance" info on the 06 A4 regarding these and any other additional gizmo improvements?? And, I thought I read here a few days ago that the 06 can be ordered this summer?

Any helpful information y'all can provide will be appreciated!!

rjorge3 · April 2005

The fact that the fuel economy is better is a plus, as well as the fact that my cars don't get borrowed very much because they are all manuals (mariobgoode)...

....Mario you made me laugh, I thought I was the only one that though about that (less people borrow or want to borrow my car

because it is stick.

I think it's part of the endemic laziness of our culture (dhanley)...D you hit it right on the head of the nail. It is part of our culture, which I think it is unfortunate. I travel quite a bit to Europe (Spain, Greece) and it is refreshing to see men, women, teenagers both girls and boys driving stick. Traffic is often used as an excuse (heavy traffic, constant shifting, can't do other things, blah blah blah blah), but all of us manual lovers know that these are just excuses. I also dare to say that manual drivers are far more responsive and alert than Auto drivers for the simply fact that we are more engage in the driving of the car.

I made a point to teach my wife to drive stick shift even if I had to drag her by her feet. She, like many Americans, never sat inside a manual or was never "exposed" to one. I am proud to say that the is a superb manual driver and at the time we test drove my current 2005 A4, I test drove the Auto(tiptronic, just to make her happy),then the manual....to quote her "Honey, there is no comparison, now I know what you always said". . I guess you know which one we are driving!...

One interesting anecdote; during our recent trip to Greece on a Contiki Tour vacation, there were 4 groups of 5 people each that wanted to go to the other side of the island of Pharos. All rental car companies in Greece have a very limited amount of Auto cars (like they said; to accomodate only the American tourists), so only 2 of the 4 groups were able to go to the beach that day,,,,yes you guessed it.. there were no auto available, just stick shift, and only myself and my wife were the only ones that could drive stick. I would have loved to wait for them, but you know what, after carefully thinking it over, why would we have to sacrifice our beach trip because of their inability to drive stick???.........and they were more than 8 men in the groups!!! (not to sound like a male chauvinist, but usually men are the primary manual drivers). So the other 2 group ended up staying in the hotel swimming pool.

Although it is a matter of preference, I am a firm believer that during our lives we are presented with many options and choices, and when you have limited options or you limit your choices because of your upbringing, laziness or whatever other reasons, then you let other dictate what you can or can't do. Or like my buddy says (he drives a BMW M3 6M), "There are people like us that buy a machine (he calls BMW and Audi machines) for the pure joy of driving these marvels of German engeniering (he gets very deep), and then are those that buy these cars just for status, and you can spot those by looking through the glass and seeing their trannies that read P N D D1, etc"... Although sometimes I acusse him of being way to deep when it comes to driving and cars, he does have a good point.

ohhh, one last thing, please, if you drive Auto be as proud as we manual lovers are, dont' give me the excuse that your car is Triptonic, Manutronic, Steptronic or that "my car is both manual and auto"...........IT IS AUTO, you do nothing to drive it except press the gas. :shades:

markcincinnati · April 2005

Those of us who would pay more for a manual transmission are like screaming voices in the wilderness.

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who
are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.--Mark Twain

bigpapaluke · April 2005

Can I get an Amen from the congregation??

Thank goodness I'm not in the minority here. Everyone gets it: you get more control out of the car with a manual, you are more engaged as a driver with a manual . . . .and the final point: to some, the purchase of a vehicle of this caliber is purely for status, not for performance.

I can not wait to replace my car with either the A4 or the new 3. In either case, it will be a manual.

markcincinnati · April 2005

Those of us wanting a car the size of an A6 were left, at the time, with very few choices and virtually all of them were automatics.

Nothing we do or say here will make Audi or Mercedes, for instance, offer an A6 or E class with a stick. BMW promises both the 3 and 5 AWD's in manual mode -- based on the two dealerships here in Cincinnati, I would venture the following: they'll have ONE car so equipped to test drive and it will not be fully optioned or it will be completely optioned.

Those of us who want cars, these days, seem to end up ordering them.

Although I do like the new M35x -- a lot -- I do wonder if I wouldn't have loved it with a smooth (snick snick) shifting 6 speed manual.

Every day remaining in my allroad 6spd has become precious.

In any case, if we counted all those who participate here on edmunds who would take a stick over an auto (even for a couple bucks more) and multiplied it by 10 it would probably still not motivate Audi or Mercedes or any of the other guys to offer their mid to full size cars in manual.

You can almost bet that had Audi brought the new A4 3.2 ONLY in manual, that they would have been in a world of hurt financially.

I read on one of these boards that someone went to their friendly local BMW store only to find none, zero, zilch demo cars equipped with a manual transmission.

I wonder what they do at the Porsche store -- but then again the expectations there may be different.

One last crybaby remark -- a local Cincinnati "oldies" radio station is giving away a "mint condition" (er, cherry) Corvette Sting Ray -- it is from the 60's or 70's (I think 60's) -- it has 12,000 original miles on it, etc. The teaser ad on the radio station was talking about the car -- son of a gun if their description of the car did not close with the assurance to the lucky winner that he/she would have a "rare" automatic version of this car (what a 2spd Powerglide????). Oh the ignominy.

We're doomed.

wco81 · April 2005

I remember reading somewhere, a long time ago, that auto was one of the options which retained at least half its price on resale. Same with A/C.

That is, if an auto transmission cost $600, more than likely, on resale, the car was worth $300 more than a model without it. Other options didn't return as much.

davking · April 2005

Based on careful observation over many years I have come to the conclusion that most American drivers cannot steer much less shift gears. Left turns into the right lane, right turns into the left lane, etc. Pretty soon we won't be driving at all, at least on highways, just sitting there while electronics guide the car. Maybe they will have toll roads for those who want to drive.

chaz0872 · April 2005

Interesting conversation gentlemen. I've been reading this board for a number of years now. I unfortunately no longer own my precious 2001.5 A4 1.8TQ but continue to be enamored with Audis in general. It had the constantly ridiculed Tiptronic transmission. Yes I did experience turbo lag or tip lag; however, I did find it very engaging with the turbo engine.

The main reason I bought the car was because I fell in love with it (my wife with the A6 but that is another story). A secondary reason, but still important in my mind was the fact that there was obviously not the arrogance I experienced with the other German car dealers and owners. Over my time observing this forum it seems that has shifted however. Maybe it is because Audi has been successful in it's desire to have their products viewed to compete on the same level as BMW and Mercedes.

Regardless of which option; manual or automatic, leather or leatherette, etc. a carbuyer makes his/her purchase based on personal preferences. I do not understand why it is deemed necessary to ridicule others because they do not choose a car for the same reasons you do. I happen to currently drive a large SUV and am happy to be lumped in a group so graciously created by joxer1.

By the way, look at all of the top-end sports cars or "super cars" (Saleen S7, Ford GT, any Porsche, etc.)...don't they all have automatics of some sort? Aren't they equipped with the "paddle-shifters" on the steering wheel/column? Not that I am interested in it but what about Formula 1? And that certainly started in Europe where, according to the latest posts, apparently they are the only ones that really know how to drive cars.

This forum used to contain useful information, I can go to other forums for the arrogant speak and name calling.

rjorge3 · April 2005

Uhmmm, I re-read my post three times just to make sure I did not overstep my boundaries and called people names. I also read the follow-ups to see if any of the others did some name calling o try to ridicule auto drivers. I did not find any evidence that people are trying to ridicule others. But then again, some live their lives always trying to find the most minuscule things to fulfill their never ending quest of feeling sorry for themselves.

The only reason I come to these posts is to have good, spirited and contrarians arguments about the cars we love regardless of auto, manual, grey, blue, FWD, AWD, German built, American built, leather, Leatherette, etc etc etc, but I hate (and I hate to use to word hate), but I hate the fact that some posters get so easily offended by anything or everything that some of us post on these forums. I will hate (sorry to use it again) for us to have to watch so closely what we type for fear of "offending" others. I think that I speak for the majority here, and I dare to say that regardless of our views, we are all adults, respectful, hardworking individuals (we have to be in order to be able to afford these German beauties

that express our opinion FREELY. We use and write in these forums so that others, get information and education about different topics. I wouldnt want to see the day that we all have to carefully watch what we type in fear that we might me called, "arrogant" "name callers" etc. to me that is very, very sad my friends.

Sorry if I am steering off topic here, but I remember my College years at Baruch College in NYC, and how there was always a handful of students (for some reason you can spot them a mile away as they all look the same) that always had something to protest because they felt offended by everything. It always seem that the world was against them (pollution, world hunger, save the whales, we are killing extinct birds, you get the idea), you couldn't even discuss hot topics like abortion or politics or anything else, because they would label you something............Good thing we never took them seriously. How could we let them spoil our fun college years...........no WAY!!!!!!!!

Ok, that was a load off my chest and sorry gang again for taking so much of your time typing this sad reply. Now let's go back to the fun stuff:

Markcincinatty, I feel your pain (A6 no Manual Tranny). One of my clients (I blamed him for turning me into an Audi lover) leased his 2002 A6 6sp, he was so looking forward to replace it with the new one, only to find out that it did not come stick.....boy o boy, the guy was devastated and my salesman that sold me my A4 could not come up with good enough reasons to make him buy the new A6 auto. My client ended up buying his leased 2002 A6. He told me that he will wait until it comes Manual (poor guy is dreaming). I told him to look into a BMW 5, but the thickhead is an Audi fanatic and will not have anything but an Audi......what gives???????

rjorge3 · April 2005

Markcincinnaty, I noticed on another discussion that you had your TT chipped to increase hp and torque. You had recommended Direct Port programming, my question to you is, how safe is this to do? I have a 2005 A4 1.8 6M which I leased. I truly love the car, but of course I would like to have a little bit of additional kick. However I am scare if the dealer finds out. Any thoughts??? Ideas?

I found a dealer in Long Island, NY that said they can do trial run for 36 hours and then my car will return back to normal. Have you heard of anyone that've done that??

Thanks

aec11 · April 2005

According to the chat session with Marc Trahan on April 6, plus confirmation from my local Audi dealer, you can already order an 06 A4, although the first month of production will not be until June, and the first 06's will likely not be seen in the showrooms until September. As I understand it, dealers generally receive their allocations once a month, at the end of the month. April allocations will be for 06's only, too late to order an 05.5.

Again as I understand it, the 06 A4 will have Blue Tooth integrated telephone system, six-speed manual on the 3.2 engine, new colors including a metallic red. None of these are available on the 05.5 A4.

markcincinnati · April 2005

The trial run of the direct port programming -- for 36 hours -- is a great way to test the upgrade. I would do it in a heartbeat.

I have heard of folks who have done this -- in my case, we actually replaced the chip in the TT. I would have rather had the direct port option. In 2000 that was not an option.

Today, with DPP, you will have no issue with the so called chastity belt on the ECU. No warranty issues, unless you insist on having certain safety features disabled, such as the rev limiter.

chaz0872 · April 2005

I think this speaks for itself.

gschultz · April 2005

I am contemplating leasing an A4 2.0 but given current gas prices, I'd like to avoid buying premium gas. They recommend using premium but I have a 2002 Volvo S60 with a turbo and it's always run fine on regular. Any experience or thoughts?

cicero · April 2005

Well said. And that is why there were 31 flavors....
Also, I find myself having trouble navigating the over-lengthy "see how much I know" responses that seem to have increased over the last few months. I would appreciate brief questions and responses as opposed to some of the comprehensive term papers that seem to be on the rise.

byronwalter · April 2005

I believe that using lower octane gas will affect the 2.0T's hp (for the worse). How much extra is that premium gas really going to cost you per year? I bet that it is a pretty insignificant amount as compared to the overall cost of the car. Unless you are doing mostly stop & go driving the "2" should get pretty good mileage anyway.

Byron ('02 A4 Avant manual/sports/etc)

joxer1 · April 2005

You may find its false economy, as often you will get poorer gas mileage if the car was designed for premium. I would also be very hesitant to use lower octane in a turbo car during the hottest months of the year when the ambient temperatures may further increase the chance of pre-ignition coming on quicker than at other times of year. Short, boring and on-topic, ok Pat?

tucsonbob · April 2005

Say Mark:
The $64,000 question is how are you doing with the M35x's transmission? Haven't you driven it for a month? Bored? Satisfied? Just curious.

zeem · April 2005

Hi,

I'm in the last phase beforing buying the new Audi A4 Avant. I take the light 1,9 JTD so I can stuff it with some nice options - including the GPS navigation system. I'm thinking about adding the optional TV tuner too. I'm fully aware that this is not a crucial gadet - but seems cool! My question: does anyone have any experience with this TV tuner? How is the quality? Can you watch it (I mean my co-pilot of course) while the car is moving? Also, is there any way to watch regular (i.e. not navigational) DVD movies on the screen?

Cheers!

Zeem

markcincinnati · April 2005

It will cost more to run the 2.0T on regular. The term du jour is "false economy."

If you use 1000 gallons per year, the cost will be $200 more than regular for premium. There are many fine -- and long -- explanations why using regular will indeed cost less per gallon but more per year. One that comes to mind is that "if you use 1000 gallons of premium, you will use MORE than 1000 gallons of regular to achieve the same results in the engine so designed to run on premium." Lots of posts on this subject, some very technical, some very terse, some "just right."

If you're buying or leasing a car in this price range, it appears to go with the territory. If you want to find one that doesn't use Premium Fuel, check out another manufacturer.

Running a turbo that requires premium on regular will not only cost more it does run the risk, however slight, of heat induced problems.

markcincinnati · April 2005

US Federal Law does not permit "TV" or DVD's to be viewed in a moving car if the TV screen is within the driver's line of sight.

It is a violation of Federal Law to defeat this -- it is apparently difficult to defeat (and rightly so). Most "bi-mode" units permit video only when the car is parked (and usually with the transmission in park (or neutral) and/or the emergency brake set.)

macmurdo · April 2005

Thanks for the input... actually talked about this with my salesperson this weekend; he informed me that BlueTooth will not be available until 2007!! Some glitch I guess. He also said there won't be any major updates since the 0.5 model is already significantly different. So no advance key yet!

On a $$ note... has it been anyone's experience that Audi will negotiate price to say, an offer of 3% over their invoice?? I've been successful with that strategy at Lexus. Also, I was quoted a very high monthly on a "balloon" loan alternative to lease on a loaded 3.2... total sticker ~43K.... Supposedly the lease was more expensive, although they didn't actually show me the numbers....

I'm thinking about going to the 2.0T to get the options without the price... does anyone have any thoughts about these ??

aec11 · April 2005

A bit surprised about Blue Tooth since Marc Trahan (Audi of North America) said less than two weeks ago that it would be available beginning with June production. I hope your salesperson was misinformed, as I was hoping to order an 06 A4 with Blue Tooth. My understanding is that the A8 and A6 already have Blue Tooth, so shouldn't be a huge deal to put it in the A4.

On pricing, I've found that the dealers won't quote a percent, but they will quote a dollar amount - I got $1,750 over invoice two years ago on an 04 A4, and I've been promised the same on an 06 A4.

I thought about the 2.0T as well, but I'd rather have the bigger engine.

joxer1 · April 2005

I'm also a little worried - not about bluetooth as I don't talk and drive anyway, but for the iPod integration stuff. If this is true I migt as well start looking now as it would be easier to sell my current car in the spring than wait for late summer/fall.

Engine wise, I'm even a little torn, although I'd have to wait for manual (will that story change in a flash as well - waiting on a dream?). My quick drive of the 2.0T manual showed a car that was faster than my current 6 cylinder, and sportier in nature, but it didn't exude luxury and was a little harder to drive at very low rpm as I would in traffic or whatever. A 6 can be nice from 600rpm. On the other hand I think the 2.0T will return better mileage and is plenty quick enough, and it does have that nice sporty sound/feel.

rjorge3 · April 2005

Hi gang, do you have any ideas (I forgot to ask Marc Trahan) if Audi would ever offer an European Delivery option like BMW, Volvo. Any rumors?

I would love to pick up my next baby when my lease expires in Germany.

R

Audi A4 2005+

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