Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

laurasdada · May 2013

Consumer Reports has pretty well blasted the XF and XJ overall reliability-wise. However, here on Edmunds, other than their XF SC developing some rattles, they've had no issues. If you buy a British car, you should not be surprised or disappointed by electrical gremlins. As I haven't been.

Under warranty, I've had the Audio Control Module (AM radio went bye-bye) replaced and the Nav system replaced. When inputting an addy into the NAV, it would reboot. Other than that it worked fine... Both plug and play repairs I was told, but still mighty glad for the warranty. Which, of course, has now expired.

Also, an issue with the AC condensation backing up into the passenger footwell, the outflow tube was too close to the exhaust system, it melted shut. After the fact, I learned of a TSB or recall, can't remember which.

Other than that, what a wonderful GT: Beautiful, smooth, quiet, powerful, (enough for me), good handling and sort of economical-ish. The "back seat" is in name only, although I have had four in the car a couple of times, three being children. But, I didn't buy it as the family truckster. For that, we have, well, a family truckster. And, fairly exclusive, I usually don't see another XK coupe on the road in my neck more than once in a very while.

Q, if you're serious about an XF, and I would be myself if/when I have to grow up, I'd look for one with some warranty (CPO) left, just in case. The XF really has been well received by most of the auto rags I read.

qbrozen · May 2013

I am serious about it. As soon as they came out, I figured I'd be looking for one when the used prices fell far enough. Then, of course, they updated to the 5.0, and now i've been waiting on those.

I'm just not sure now is the time. I'm still debating. At ~$28k, it is still a tough nut to swallow for me personally. Not that I can't afford it... but do i want to? All of my own cars have been at that $24k limit. The wife has had the more expensive ones.

The other option I'm pondering is to sell off the bimmer and save that car payment for a while. I'm just not sure how long that would last. We all know me.

nyccarguy · May 2013

Have you thought about a slightly used Mustang with the "track pack?" Those have got to be in your $24K wheelhouse or at least they will be after Memorial Day;)

28firefighter · May 2013

I may know someone interested in selling a 2011 Mustang GT Premium 6spd with Brembo Package in the Philadelphia area...

:-)

nyccarguy · May 2013

I know your Dad is trying to ditch his GT Mustang, but if I know q, he's going to want a 5.0

qbrozen · May 2013

2011 should be the 5.0, no?

And, yes, I considered it. Freehold BMW has one, conveniently enough. But, I just can't get over the stigma that its a Mustang. Not that I necessarily have anything against it... but I'd have a hard time coughing up over $20k for one. And I know my wife would be against it.

28firefighter · May 2013

It is indeed a 5.0. Black over saddle leather interior.

I hear you though - it has a very specific market. I may be stereotyping, but that market is not you, Q. Not to mention, the backseat is worthless.

nyccarguy · May 2013

I stand corrected. 2011 was the 1st year of the 5.0, with 412 hp? Then didn't they do something in 2012 to give it 420 hp?

qbrozen · May 2013

nice color combo.

I really do drool a bit over the new ones ... but I'm more of a buyer at like $15k for a pony car. I mean, when you are talking real close numbers for a Mustang 5.0 vs an XF 5.0... its not much of a choice as far as I'm concerned.

qbrozen · May 2013

Just cruising the sites and came upon this short-term GTI lease. Pretty darn good deal for someone.

qbrozen · May 2013

I could see myself in this one.

michaellno · May 2013

That GTI lease takeover looks pretty good. Too bad it would take me a month-and-a-halfs worth of miles just to drive it back to Colorado.

28firefighter · May 2013

I had a 2012 S60 R-Design as a loaner yesterday while the C30 was getting its routine maintenance. Black on black, platinum. I want, but not at north of $50k...

stevedebi · May 2013

"That GTI lease takeover looks pretty good. Too bad it would take me a month-and-a-halfs worth of miles just to drive it back to Colorado. "

You could have it shipped back there, assuming the lease allows one to assume it in Colorado...

fintail · May 2013

Nothing to report for me, but a good old friend's parents are out shopping for a car. Not too chronic as they haven't bought anything since a new Camry 11 years ago. His dad wanted a wagon (insistent on not having a SUV) - they have narrowed it down between an Outback and a Forester, both of which can be SUVs according to marketers.

Talked with a neighbor in the parking garage today, the guy has an 03 Corolla that was just in the shop for 8 weeks (seriously) for a recall issue. They issued him a Camry hybrid loaner - and now he wants a new car. Corolla is original owner, 80K miles, 5-speed, very good condition. I told him to sell it privately, people will be lining up for that thing.

crkyolfrt · May 2013

I told him to sell it privately, people will be lining up for that thing.

Perhaps...but it'll be those who don't know what a disaster the 5 sp stick can be. At 80k it is about to reveal itself for its weaknesses. It shares the same transmission as the Matrix I believe. Bad standard tranny. One of the rare cases where they'd be better off pursuing the auto. If you know them, save them by giving them a heads up.

oldbearcat · May 2013

Good Advice - my nephew got bit by that snake twice. The original 5 speed in his Matrix made it just out of warranty and grenaded itself. The replacement tranny started acting up at 80K, and, he traded the car off while it would still move.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

fintail · May 2013

Oh, I had no idea. Maybe I should encourage him to punch his card and buy that Camry he seems to be eyeing. I could tell he was impressed by the new car - but in talking to him, he has the same tough position to move on from that I dealt with = no car payment and an old car that is still working fine.

He seems to be a smooth and precise driver from what I have seen of his parking skills - maybe he's been able to dodge the bullet.

stickguy · May 2013

I really like the S60, but that is the base "strippo" model they advertise the teaser lease on. You know me. No roof, no sale!

stickguy · May 2013

though probably not serious. we finally saw me BILs new Cobra this weekend, and he took us each for a ride (sadly, due to insurance limitations, I could not drive it

)

I figured my wife would hate it, but when she got back, she said it was fun and we should get one. of course, it can't function as an actual car to use. And I don't have that kind of toy budget!

I have some pictures, and once my wife gets them off her iphone and stashed on the picture site, I will post them.

stickguy · May 2013

anyway, it is a few year old Superformance Cobra 427. Dark silver/gray with black stripes. It looks really, really cool. He got it with about 550 miles on it, now up near 700.

Powered by a Roush FI 427 backed by a 5 speed tremec. 550 HP moving 2,500#s. It gets out if its own way. Also has unshielded side pipes.

old school. Single (drivers) roll hoop. low back seats, racing lap belts (no shoulder ones). So not exactly up to modern passive safety standards! Plus you have to do gymnastics to get in or out when it has been running, or you will incinerate your leg.

Oh, it sounds like a race car (since, well, it pretty much is) and smells like the 60s. And is really, really loud.

they live out in farm country, so we were bopping along some narrow, windy country roads. sometimes at 80. At one point on a straight he leaned on it a bit and ran it past 90, and it gets there really really quick. He said that if you aren't careful, you can break the rear tires loose in 3rd gear. and if you floor it in 2nd it squats and absolutely blasts forward, while sounding like the soundtrack to a racing movie.

Exciting and terrifying at the same time. And completely impractical. you really can't do anything but Sunday drives, and you better live out in the country!

Not sure what he paid, but he said new that roller package was about 45K (this is all brand new, totally custom. No cannibalized Mustang II here!). And he had the paper for the guy (some well known former racer) in SC that put the motor in. The 427 alone was 27K. 3K for the trans, a couple grand for upgrades (billet stuff) and $8,200 to assemble. So some rich CEO (they googled him) in Maine paid 80K+ on this most likely, and put 500 miles on it before selling to a dealer for some (likely) huge loss.

stickguy · May 2013

Oh, while I don't see a summer toy in my immediate future, I think my original plan of getting a semi-toy (small convertible, 2 seater fine) as "my" car would be well received. Now just need the money for it!

qbrozen · May 2013

stick, is your BIL in Jersey? This would be one heck of a coincidence, but I know someone, old friend of the family and former bandmate of my brother's, who recently bought a Cobra.

I'm looking at the pics now on facebook and, man, its close to what you are saying. Single driver's hoop. Silver with black stripes (although not typical stripes on his; they are small and just over a corner of the fender). The one detail that doesn't match yours is that this has 5-point harnesses. So I guess just 2 different guys in Jersey who recently bought silver Cobras?

qbrozen · May 2013

I didn't know about this issue. can you tell me more about it? I'd like to make sure I avoid it. I assume that would apply to the Vibe, too?

stickguy · May 2013

No, he lives in upstate NY (Oldfarmer territory). And he is really into it, getting involved with the online clubs, and planning to go to a local area show in June.

Definitely a toy, and not for the faint of heart!

crkyolfrt · May 2013

You can check out the Matrix forum...can't think of the name off hand but an easy search...bad standard trans in Matrix. Yes the Vibe has the identical issue as the Matrix. The Matrix and Vibe use the identical 1.8 litre Corolla engine. Only exgaust routing and slight size differences except on the AWD M and Vibe which has additional rear routing and constrictions to get around the IRS which the Corolla and FWD Matrix/V doesn't use.

You will find Corolla owners with same issue, but not in as great a number, I think mainly because the vast majority of Corolla's sold are autos. I can't imagine the trans being dif in the Corolla and the Matrix. Also be careful if you find ones that have the 6 speed stick. Those ones have a known weak clutch. That's the HO 1.8 and 6 speed.

FWIW, driving gently won't save you from this tran's woes. There is a bearing situated in a too dry area (oil wise). And Toyota completely dropped the ball on these victims, often not helping (not as much as Honda would have for example) and some even had to pay full pop ($4200.) and even had their SECOND trans fail too..as per Oldbearcat's post. Many other victims. Apparently (I haven't been able to confirm) Toyota FINALLY made a change after about 5 freakin' years, but not a lot of reporting of newer cars to know for sure if the tran is dif or not as the 03 and on ones. What really kills me, is I have heard of Toyota charging full pop for a replacement trans in like an 03 to 05 etc. even in year 2009 which failed prematurely AGAIN! Why would they not give these people the newer style trans? Especially the ones who were left no choice but to pay over 4 grand on a car that is not worth it, yet too good to scrap...Some of these poor people still owed the original financing on cars that were just out of wty. Shame on Toyota. And I say that as I used to be a fan. Our immediate family has 6 Toyotas, and all repurchases since about 03. Two are Corollas but always were autos.
Toyota has gotten way too big for their britches, IMO. They're overdue for a serious fall..

So is Hyundai..if you have been following other forums lately...but that's another story..

sb55 · May 2013

I had a 2005 Vibe with 5 speed. I put 80K miles on it and sold it to my BIL who commuted from eastern LI to Brooklyn and he had it until 170K miles on it when he gave it to his SIL. No tranny issues on that one, and it wasn't babied!

qbrozen · May 2013

Interesting. Ok. So we're talking the throwout bearing, I believe, which is also pointed out in the msn reliability rating on these. They only show a couple of years with the problem, however. I wonder how accurate that is.

I spotted this one and thought it a good deal.

I hadn't heard about the 6-speed clutch, either. I had heard a long time ago that they had many claims on the trans itself because, as one person told me, the gates were so close that folks were jamming the selector into the wrong gear.

crkyolfrt · May 2013

No, it is not the throwout bearing according to a diagram I saw once which I can't put my hands on...almost have a feeling it is buried in that Matrix thread. I have derived my info from that thread and talking with some owners who I see randomly and ask them.

When I looked at the diagram, and saw where the bearing is, it appears to be tucked up in a nestle sorta. When I read about stats such as the post above, not having any trouble (yet), it reminds me of cases when any component that uses a sump of oil whose distribution design is by having a specific level of the gear(s) being submerged in the oil and circulates the gear box or engine (in the case of an old side valve Briggs & Stratton lawnmower, the bottom of the rod were it attaches to the crank actually hits the oil and lubes by splashing) by spinning in the oil and throwing it. Sounds simple enough, but problems can arise if either too much or too little oil is used. Yes, even too much oil can change how a gear is suppose to grab it and throw it due to potential captivation patterns, and centrifugal effects.

Anyway, I guess this is one of those cases where it would be good if we could private message, cuz there's bound to be some CCB's eyes glazing over with a distinctive yawning undertone..lol

edit - pattih, "Matrix Transmission Problems" #21, 20 Apr 2007 10:57 am

post 29 but lots info prior to that too.

It appears that 03 was the worst MY for failures, and some says Toy changed it in 04. But, if you read enough posts, a pattern starts to reveal that it would seem it was not address till much much later.

qbrozen · May 2013

That's ok. I'll probably just avoid them in that case.

anyhoo... back to being a CCB'er... I replaced that sensor in the bimmer and the limp mode went away. Drove it around a while and I noticed a new unpleasant sound in a particular RPM range. Upon further poking around while I had someone hold it in that range, it seems to be coming from deep down in the engine bay. Then, while driving that night, limp mode popped up again. This time without any sputtering or stalling, and it was gone when I restarted the car, and no codes were stored when I got home and hooked up the laptop.

So I think its safe to say I've had it. I'm going to return the car to fully stock form and sell or trade it. And that's where I'm currently in a quandry. I have NO IDEA what I'm going to do next. Trading it would be so much easier, but I'm not sure I want to buy anything else right now. So I'm considering attempting to sell it privately and just hold off on another purchase. The volvo and leaf will certainly serve well enough for my transportation needs. I also have the Benz sitting there, which I did some work on this weekend, and could use that if I am so inclined.

fintail · May 2013

Hmm, wonder what I could get to make it a three of a kind - maybe a nice white bike:

fintail · May 2013

I remember my dad had a 68 Fairlane with a 289/3 speed that had a throwout bearing issue - made it hard to shift and get going, especially from a stop, if that makes sense. The car was bought out of an estate with low miles and otherwise nice condition. Eventually he tired of it, had moved, and had me sell it for him. I asked little for the car, and explained it had the issue. I remember the first guy who looked was actually mad that I would ask money for a car with the issue, and that I had wasted his time :confuse: Second shopper bought the car.

That car was no fun to drive - 3 on the tree, manual steering, manual brakes, no options other than radio.

crkyolfrt · May 2013

A throwout bearing can be a bad design from new, but there are habits to avoid taking one out prematurely. Most common is anyone who rides their left foot on the clutch (just driving down the road) with more pressure than they would imagine. This is also hard on clutch life. Or others who sit at long lights or stop and go for minutes on end with their clutch pushed in. It is the throwout bearing that is taking the pressure that otherwise the clutch spring packs would be exerting on the pressure plate.

nyccarguy · May 2013

Yesterday was our 2011 Pilot's 2 year birthday. Mileage total is 35,669. We drove it 18,869 miles from 5/19/2012 - 5/19/2013. So far, so good. The Pilot is everything we've expected it to be. The family truckster with 3 (real) rows for me, my wife, & our 3 children (6.5, 4, 1.5). The couple times we've needed it, the 4WD does not disappoint. It is comfortable on long trips and has lots of space.

Besides regular oil changes (and lots of gas), the only major expense we've incurred is the Pilot burning through a set of tires at the 32K mark. Its got its share of dings and scratches.

It has needed 3 warranty repairs. A whistle at certain fan speeds, which was fixed by them cleaning out the cabin filter. A faulty rear latch that would not close on the 1st time every time. And my wife's key broke while it was in the ignition.

We service the truck at a different dealer than the 1 we purchased it at. They have been outstanding.

My only complaint (yes I'm nitpicky) is that they do not offer loaner cars. I understand that it is a Honda dealership and not a luxury car dealership, but our Pilot had a sticker price of close to $39K. Now we have an extra car, so this is never an issue, but I still have to get a ride to pick up & drop off.

My wife's only complaint is that there are "too damn many of these" and we got the very popular, Polished Metal Metallic. A few times she has gone to the wrong pilot.

with 2 years in the books, I've only got 3 years to go until it is all mine.

qbrozen · May 2013

Talking with my 7-year-old son yesterday, I mentioned selling the bimmer. He was quite upset at the idea and pointed out how much I love it. I explained that I only love it when its working, which doesn't seem to be very often.

So I posed to him the few possibilities I had in mind: 1. Trading it on a newer vehicle of similar value. 2. Selling it and buying a cheap economy car. 3. Selling it and buying a classic car.

In short, being the oh-so-wise 7-yr-old that he is, he said options 2 and 3 are "too slow," and I need a car to race with, so option 1 is my ONLY choice. While he did make a very valid argument, I can't say that I feel too comfortable with option 1.

Anyhoo... looking at sort-of cheap stuff that I would hope to be reliable, here are some options I've come across:
A little pricey, but damned near new.
Probably the sportiest of the bunch.
Probably the most substantial of the bunch.
The most practical? Miles are kinda up there for the $$, though.
I still like the looks of these. And rode in a sedan version recently and found it pretty nice.
It is certainly inexpensive.

stickguy · May 2013

Bradd, should have gone luxury. They give out loaners!

I had the RDX in for the first service. 7,500 miles and just did oil change and tire rotation. Otherwise has been rock solid (knock on wood).

while there, I browsed. The ILX is actually a very nice car, and shows no Civic roots to me. ANd Acura has a new grad program for when my son finally gets a job (please!).

would be good now, because they have a lease deal on the ILX. Premium (power leather, lots of goodies) for sign and drive of $270/month (36 months (35 payments) and I think 12K/year). Lot of car for the money.

stickguy · May 2013

you know the addiction is bad when you are taking suggestions for a 7 YO. I know from experience kids are more than happy to spend all your money, and more, given the chance!

au1994 · May 2013

Ok sir, when you are posting links to Suzuki Aerio's, its time for an intervention!

Your 7 year old is clearly wise beyond his years so I would take counsel from him.

Before you part with the 1'er have you taken it to a dealer for their diagnosis? Not taking a shot at your mechanical abilities but I'd want a second opnion.

Hopefully this hasn't soured you on the brand or the 1 Series itself so would you consider another 1? I noticed a few weeks ago on bimmerfest some nice looking ones, don't remember pricing though.

qbrozen · May 2013

Ok sir, when you are posting links to Suzuki Aerio's, its time for an intervention!

LOL.

It has soured me on the brand, yes. Not old ones, mind you.

I don't want to go to the dealer because I'm afraid of what they will find. It isn't a matter of getting it fixed THIS time, it is a matter of getting it fixed AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. It is running right now and everything is hunky dory...up until its not. So, sure, I could sever a limb and turn it over, but I'd still dump it after that for fear of the next repair.

hell, I had it into them when I was experiencing problems and still under warranty. They did no better than a hack mechanic, frankly. I was having limp mode issues back then with misfire codes. It took 4 trips before it stopped giving me problems (they replaced plugs, then coils, then fuel pump, then cleaned valves). I can throw parts at a problem with the best of them, so why pay dealership prices to do so?

stickguy · May 2013

just looked at the links. Not sure how you went from a Jag XF to these mutts, but hey, to each his own.

I like the Soul. would freak my daughter out, and my wife would give me "that look", but damned practical. Alas, no moonroof as always with your finds.

and the Versa is IMO an awful little car. I just can't imagine you driving that or the Aero.

The Milan, not sure about the price, but that is a rare duck. And the Hyundai? Touring is a really nice car.

qbrozen · May 2013

well, obviously, the XF is $28k. And, knowing me, I'm going to want out of it in less than 2 years, at which time I'll be buried in it up to my armpits.

I think what may win is just having no other car for a little while. That does mean outright selling the bimmer, though, which I'm not looking forward to.

I was impressed with my coworker's Versa. Found it peppy and surprisingly solid and quiet. My thought was "it is punching above its weight class."

stickguy · May 2013

what year/miles is the 1? There is a car sense over in Mt. Holly. wonder what they would do on a buy offer?

no idea what you are going to run into trying to sell that baby private sale.

and no, I don't want this one.

anyway, that would be my choice. sell it outright, then make do with the other 3! cars you have laying around (I thought the Benz was gone already, I must not be keeping up). That frees you up to troll the market until you stumble upon something worth getting.

corvette · May 2013

I like the Aerio. You could pretend you're a Star in a Reasonably Priced Car.

crkyolfrt · May 2013

I rented a Versa for a month in 2010? and the seat bottom was so bad it was as if it was broken. It had this canyon in the centre, that I confirmed later other cars on the lot had too?? It was bizarre. I liked basically everything else about the car for the money.

If you're going to own an Aerio, it really should be an AWD and because you have a use for the premium that imposes.

As for the Milan, I'm still exercising a life-time ban on Ford so I guess I won't comment more than I have, lol

Touring...I like the idea of a lot of miles in a short period of time if the maintenance records can be confirmed. But like you say, the $ have to be equally attractively low to justify and even (my) interpreting a US car/pricing, still seemed pretty sturdy to me..

I like that you consult with your 7 year old. Kids can sometimes point out something that no grownup can. They represent the epitome of honesty...err...well..until they hit their teens...then you'll have to go with good past memories..

fintail · May 2013

I remember when my dad would drive that Ford, he'd just leave it in 2nd gear for city driving. Never got above 35 as the place had low limits, and on a 3-speed, that seems to be OK. I wonder if that added anything to it. Either way, the eventual buyer didn't seem to be turned off - but I think he was eyeing it to use the engine and part out the car.

I think I will stick to manuals on bikes only - they seem to take more abuse, and if you break 'em, easier to fix.

crkyolfrt · May 2013

I wonder if that added anything to it.

Nah..I doubt that very much.

I love a std as yo well know, but once I got caught with the ST (Honda ST1300...hydraulic clutch) (which is suppose to help, but...) in serious stop and go on the 427 once after attending a funeral. I'm a pretty muscular guy, but I gotta say my left hand was cramping pretty bad. It was on that trip that I thought...ya know...there is a place for a switchable manumatic on a bike. Too bad Yammy didn't execute it very well with their FJR1300.

crkyolfrt · May 2013

Btw, what a fine lookin' pair. Of course I know you're proud...and rightfully so..

roadburner · May 2013

Beautiful cars; it has encouraged me to take a family portrait...

qbrozen · May 2013

I remember car sense being real low on the wife's xc90. They don't seem to be the high-baller that carmax reportedly is. But might be worth a shot because, yes, I would have nightmares about joyriders, tire kickers, and endless scam emails while trying to sell this thing. They are trading at auction right around $19k, which wouldnt be horrible. It would look much better at that number if trading and getting the tax benefit. Private selling at even just $20k would be good with me and a fantastic deal for a buyer.

stickguy · May 2013

can always try the buy bid. swing it by a BMW dealer too. may not get a winner, but will at least give you a good level setting.

private? I am a bit jaded from my recent CL forays. The van was a PITA. took much longer, and had to deal with a bunch of flakes on that one.

now, for my likely upcoming sales, CL makes sense since it will be old iron for not much money. But not really looking forward to who might turn up to look at a $3K Integra!

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles