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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    I thought that in former years the Jetta had a rated towing capacity (maybe ~2000 lb), but I cannot find this on edmunds for the 2009 MY. Also the options do not list a trailer hitch. What gives?

    I am sure that the Jetta TDI could tow effectively and reasonably safely. Maybe VW has just given the towing equipment option to the aftermarket suppliers. This would be one huge advantage over the hybrids, if one needed the ability to tow. Towing of course is a safety risk, but one that many otherwise risk averse and responsible operators take.

    Most drivers get lower than EPA est mpg with hybrids, some much lower. Many drivers of standard gas and diesel drive vehicles can get well over the EPA est mpg on the highway, even without the more extreme of the "hypermiling" techniques.

    Real fuel efficiency is based on weight of fuel and not volume (BSFC is weight of fuel consumed / time / engine power output) even though liquid fuels are, for convenience, dispensed by volume. Diesel fuel is about 15% denser than gasoline so you should divide diesel mpg by 1.15 to adjust the true mpg of a diesel to a weight basis for comparison with gasoline mpg.

    Diesel fuel and gasoline have the same energy content on a weight basis. So it would be entirely justified for diesel fuel to be priced at 15% more per gallon than gasoline. Current diesel engines are, of course, more efficient than current gasoline engines at converting a given amount of heat to work.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Check this bellow, you're already buying the Ethanol mixed with the diesel at 10%, and to do this mixture they have to add another liquid, to stabilize the fuel. This technique was discovered by Swedish company back in 2005. And the result better fuel for your diesel car, because diesel contrary to gasoline generate more energy if mixed with ethanol. There you have it. Check the links bellow.
    http://www.drivingethanol.org/ethanol_in_vehicles/e-diesel.aspx
    http://www.e85safety.com/index.php?/archives/18-E-Diesel-Ethanol-and-diesel-prod- uces-eDiesel-flex-fuel.html
    http://www.newgenholdings.com/companyoverview.html
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I have to disagree with you, the Jetta diesel was not selling that well back in 2001, 2002, 2003, when the gasoline was only $1,50/ gallon. Who want to get a diesel car that smell like hell, and generate noise and vibration at highway speed?? I drove diesel all my life in Europe, but still when you go back and drive gasoline cars are a lot smoother, lot quieter than diesel ones. Don’t get me wrong, the improvement in diesel engine is tremendous, but still gasoline are smoother and quieter. Jetta diesel did not get a good resell value until lately with the gas price going above $4. You think if today the gas go to $2 or bellow, anybody is going to adventure in the diesel world?? No, plus the fact that diesel is only going up, and I’ll bet you the difference between the diesel and gasoline is going to widen in the next couple months; and the reason is demand from developing countries, like China, India, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Pakistan, Malysia, Andonisia,,,,and the list goes on. The refineries in USA send diesel to Europe, because they get a lot of profit selling it over there, this is due to the weak dollar versus the Euro. The US government need to intervene in this kind of trade, otherwise the consumer is going to pay the price.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    That is NOT what the links you provided says!! Better for whom???

    Indeed given the various blendings there is a 7-10% mpg LOSS

    ..."There is a light increase in operating costs due to a slight (7-10%) mileage decreases with E-diesel use."...

    SLIGHT loss!!???? You are vilifying the 2009 VW Jetta because it gets a little less mpg even as it has increased the power 52% !!!!

    The "slight loss" for me would be - minus 5 mpg!!! Oems rack their engineering brains for even a 1 mpg gain.

    The additional problem is diesel fuel pumps do NOT function well with residual H20. Ethanol attracts water!? To replace a ruined fuel pump due to steady exposure to H20 laden ethanol is on the order of 1200-1500 dollars.

    I say give the choice!! I for one would NOT opt for it.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I have to disagree with you, the Jetta diesel was not selling that well back in 2001, 2002, 2003, when the gasoline was only $1,50/ gallon.

    You can disagree all you want...welcome to America. But I bought my TDI in '00 and have a pretty good grasp of the market. Who would want a 50mpg car when diesel was CHEAPER than gas?? Anybody that drove a lot. It was still much nicer, smoother and quieter (except maybe at idle) than any econo-box that MIGHT get 35-40mpg....

    I considered selling my TDI in 2004 when the Passat TDI's hit the market. The resale on my TDI was about $1,000 higher than a comparable 1.8T gasser....which was the same price when I bought new. So even when diesels marekt wasn't as crazy as it has been the last couple years, they were still experiencing better resale than a gas model. Yes I should have bought an '04 TDI and sold it last year for what I paid for it....likely won't happen again though.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "I have to disagree with you, the Jetta diesel was not selling that well back in 2001, 2002, 2003, when the gasoline was only $1,50/ gallon"...

    And I would have to disagree with you. I got mine in 2003. I could go back to the records to tell you how much diesel was then, but in truth why would you care? Another is, I would have bought a diesel in 1987 IF it was available in this country and RUG was .74 cents per gal. Again the issue was then and is still now: the lack of choice.
  • cosmocosmo Member Posts: 203
    Your links are simply advertisements. Got any links to research or credible reports to back up your claims?
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    You wrote:

    Who want to get a diesel car that smell like hell, and generate noise and vibration at highway speed?? I drove diesel all my life in Europe, but still when you go back and drive gasoline cars are a lot smoother, lot quieter than diesel ones.

    Just to put things into some sort of perspective regarding your diesel experience in Europe - when did you leave Europe, and what vintage were the vehicles you drove there?
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I am not trying to convince you, I am trying to clarify to other people that like hearing the truth and verifying it themselves. Everybody has access to the internet they can check the facts from the lays. But again here is another link to the test that was done in Sweden. Diesel can be mixed with ethanol at up to 10% ethanol, with the adition of fortifier that help the mixture to ignite.
    http://www.biomatnet.org/secure/Other/F447.htm
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I use to drive 2004 Audi A4 diesel in France, I just came from north Africa and I was driving for a month a 2005 Mercedes c320 CDI, owned by a friend of mine. I use to own also Peugeot 205 diesel in France, and Renault Clio III 1.5dCi this last one is rated at 65 MPG. I also drove the old vintage peugeot diesel cars, that we use to have to wait 30 second after you turn the ignition on before pushing the start button, this use to serve as heating the injectors before you start the engine. with the new engines you don't need to do this anymore. I drove the new 2009 Jetta diesel and it's the same engine I use to have in the Audi A4. It drive and sound the same as the 2004 Audi A4 diesel. I drive now the 2008 Honda Accord, and the 2001 Jetta GLS. As I said I have a lot of experience with diesel cars, and I repair my cars myself. I have learned repairing cars since I was 7 years old from my old man. And definitely helped me save a tones of money, buying a cars or repairing them. I think this is more information than you wanted. It does not matter what you say the diesel smells except the new ones that have the new catalytic converter, it did help improve the smelling problem. But the noise is still there, compare I4 2008 Malibu to 2009 Jetta diesel as far as highway cruising, anybody can do this test, just go to the dealer, and you’ll see the difference; Malibu is quieter than the jetta. This vibration problem have been solved by Mercedes using counter-balancer, noise damper, and a lot sound damping material to reduce the noise.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Diesel can be mixed with ethanol at up to 10% ethanol,

    I guess the question really is; WHY would you want to waste perfectly good moonshine to supplement diesel when there are so many other alternatives, such as rapeseed, rendered fats and algae and it is not limited to 10%.

    Leave the alcohol for drinking and use the others for fuel, i.e. bio-diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well I think a lot of us have the same situation ONLY with gassers, being as how the overwhelming % (98%) of passenger vehicle fleet is Rug to Pug.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I agree with you, this Ethanol initiative by our government is pure insanity. A lot of people from farmers to consumers suffer the increase in the price of food. Because it starts costing too much to feed livestock. Also, I am against biodiesel from canola seeds and vegetable oil; haven't you seen the price of vegetable oil, or canola oil, lately?? This is not the solution, may be the Algae a good source in the future, but we have to wait and see.
  • rbiddrbidd Member Posts: 4
    I have been to 5 VW dealers and have told so many different stories about the car and its availability I don't know what to believe. Good new is that all the dealers in my area are taking orders at MSRP. I have a deposit down on an 6-speed manual, Sportwagen with the panorama roof. The dealer I ordered through told me wagons would begin to come in by November 1 and that I should have a car by year end. Others told me I would be lucky to have a 6 speed manual wagon by next summer. Anyone know when these cars are really coming in? Salesman really don't seem to know much about the car, trim levels it will be coming in or when they will be getting any in. One salesman actually told me it was a zero emission vehicle.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    “The Truth is out there” X-files? I don’t recall. Problem is, nobody knows or is not telling us the truth for some reason.

    I have heard from August to November. Larson VW Tacoma, WA told me they had pre sold all the TDI Jetta Wagons due in August, then he said something about November, but by that time I had lost interest as they are asking about $5000 over MSRP.
  • hebrewhammerhebrewhammer Member Posts: 34
    ..but we all know there are sheep in the world. They panic. They rush in their decisions.

    These people are the ones who will pay a hefty markup over MSRP for the TDI.

    If you are patient, and are disciplined, you will save maybe 20% over and above what they're overpaying for the first batch of TDIs.

    That 20% assumes simply that you pay MSRP, rather than the 5k markup some dealers are asking for.

    If I'm even remotely correct, that 20% will easily become closer to 25% if you get a TDI closer to invoice, assuming you're willing to wait, which I honestly believe will happen (maybe more, when gas prices drop, and Honda/Acura bring their proven diesel to the U.S. in 2009).

    So, if it's worth an extra savings of $8000, you should wait.

    $8000 is a lot of diesel.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I have to disagree with you, the Jetta diesel was not selling that well back in 2001, 2002, 2003, when the gasoline was only $1,50/ gallon

    Not true in 2001 when I lived in Ohio. I bought a 2000 Jetta TDI GLS 5speed in 2000 for $21k. I put 35k on it in 12 months, then sold it for $17k. New ones at the time were going $1k-2k over sticker. I put the car on autotrader.com and had people contacting me about it all over the country. An engineer from Michigan bought it to replace his Dodge Ram that he was commuting 100miles a day in.

    As far as the TDI, it ran much better than my BIL's identical 4cyl gas GLS, the TDI was much quieter on the highway. I'd buy another in a heart beat.
  • redgolf1995redgolf1995 Member Posts: 1
    Well..I was talking to ELVIS last week and he said the 2009 jetta wagon TDIs were to be available by @&amp;3*%#!$#?)<. Righto I said and went out and bought me a sweeeeet 95 golf which gave me 35mpg this fillup. I will prolly have this biodiesel thing figured out too by the time VW delivers those babies!!!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Man blows up garage trying to make biodiesel
    A man was airlifted to hospital after he blew up his garage attempting to make biodiesel

    By Laura Clout
    Last Updated: 8:30PM BST 27 Jul 2008

    The chemical explosion in Middleton Cheney, Northamptonshire, left the man with burns to his face, arms and torso.

    Fire crews rescued the man using specialist breathing gear, after they were called to reports of a chemical fire just after 3pm on Saturday.

    A spokesman for Oxfordshire County Council Fire and Rescue Service urged people to take "extreme caution" if attempting such chemical mixtures in their own home.

    Hang on they will have high quality biodiesel from algae soon. No risk to your life.

    Welcome to the Forum.....
  • hebrewhammerhebrewhammer Member Posts: 34
    It's on its way to the United States.

    Honda reliability with 51 mpg diesel engine - oh, and it's rumored to be a mere $850 more than the gasoline Accord.

    Competition is gooooood. :shades:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/advice/motoring/hammond/2008/07/18/honda-accord-controll- - ing-a-jumbo-jet-would-be-easier-89520-20652973/

    Also, they plan on selling as many as people will buy, and with Honda's legendary production capabilities, that should mean NO supply issues. :D
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Rumors, plans, legends and imperial gallons fuel economy?
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    First, the Accord in Europe is the Acura TSX in USA. The second thing the imperial MPG used in UK is not the same as the MPG used in US. 51 MPG imperial = 42 MPG USA. Moreover, Acura is bringing diesel in the new TSX coming this September, Honda accord will not see diesel until the Acura TSX have seen some good sells numbers, otherwise they will not venture into bringing diesel in the Accord. Which is a dump idea, Honda need to fire the marketing director that suggested this approach? He&#146;s the same person who suggested creating an Accord V6 hybrid. If Honda put the hybrid system in the CRV with the 2.4L engine, I will bet the CRV will be hard to find at Honda dealer lot. It is already one of Honda best seller, but that my change with GM is bringing the Saturn VUE with the new full Hybrid system at 36 MPG. Honda could help its underperformed truck division by using diesel in the Odyssey, Ridgeline, CRV, and Pilote.
  • rog96rog96 Member Posts: 21
    I agree, CRV hybrid to compete with the Vue. And please put the diesel in the Element!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Honda's Hybrid system would be weak in the CRV. They may put it in the Fit. The rest of the line-up need a diesel option.

    I think that VW will have a real lead on Honda with diesel cars. Honda had to build a special factory in the UK to build diesel engines before they could sell any cars in Britain. I have not seen any sales figures. They are not in the top 10 in the EU. Neither is Toyota. VW is the big dog in Europe. If they market the diesels right in the USA they will have a gigantic jump on the other automakers. They seem to have overcome the reliability issues over the last few years. If the dealers can control their greed on diesel sales they could have a great run ahead of them. What other car can you safely enjoy driving out on the highway that is capable of 50 MPG?
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    The difference between VW and Honda is that Honda can start production of cars with diesel engine with no problem to keep up with the demands. Because Honda factories are in USA, all they need is ship the engines from Japan or from Eastern Europe factories. On the other hand VW does not have any factory in the US, the first factory in the USA won&#146;t be operational until 2010. VW have a factory in Mexico. And their Jetta diesel is coming from Europe; with the weak currency 1 dollars = 1.57 Euros it will hurt VW profit. That is why they are not shipping a lot of diesel jettas to US, they are cautious, and they are not making any profit out of the new Jetta. For them creating a buzz about diesel and bringing a lot of traffic to their show room is the big gain. That is a small price to pay for marketing. Once their 1st factory in USA start production they will see an improvement in profit, buy increasing production of their best sellers models.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The weak dollar has made all foreign cars harder to sell here. Toyota is probably selling their Prius for a lot more in the rest of the World. Why bring them to our deflated market. Same will be the case with Honda. Unless they build a diesel engine factory here in the USA. You seem to think that Honda is as big World Wide as VW. That is not the case. The US is probably Honda's biggest market.

    The big difference is VW has the Jetta diesel on the ground here in the USA. They are available for test driving and ordering. We don't even know if Honda will offer anything but the TSX diesel here. Or even that is questionable. I would give a Pilot diesel a test drive if they show up here before I buy another diesel SUV. That is doubtful as BMW and Mercedes will be in CA long before the Pilot diesel.

    The market is VW's to lose. I wish them the best.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    You're right USA is the biggest market for Honda, and that is why they are cautious not to loose that reputation that they built over the years. It use to be reliability, but as other manufacturers caught up with Honda in the reliability, the design, and the fuel efficiency arena, they are paying a close attention to the hybrid market, and from my understanding is the area where all manufacturer are going to compete against each others.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Honda has also picked very interesting threads through competing issues. While known as one of the best economy/reliability leaders, Honda's consumable parts durability is nowhere near VW's. VW's quality is literally head and shoulders above Honda's. So if VW can continue with their strides in durability, they will have a big advantage. If VW can match or exceed Honda's reliability, they will be an awesome competitor.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    For decades the Honda group has rated significantly higher in reliability than the VW group in Consumer Reports surveys. Honda has also trounced VW in the CR Owner Satisfaction surveys for as long as that survey has been taken. Resale value has also been consistently less than Honda's. VW consistently appears on the CR "Bad Bets" list, while Honda consistently appears on the "Good Bets" list. In my years as an auto mechanic we regarded VW as a "throw away" car and the Honda as infinitely repairable. For the brief life that VW has, it rides and handles very nicely. I'm sure the sales and marketing flaks on this site will have the usual Red Herrings, malapropisms, outlyers, non sequiters, and diversions. But this is the entertainment channel isn't it?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well for sure finding a GOOD auto mechanic let alone a good HONDA auto mechanic is a tad like looking for hens teeth. With that in mind, it is good that Honda's can be mostly repaired by a normal auto mechanic.

    VW's really are very technical. Even VW trained mechanics at dealers, throw parts at it to try and correct things. So you can imagine a normal mechanics take on VW's which they do NOT specialize in. So if VW engineer's TDI's so the less technically asute mechanic can do the repairs, would make it more competitive.

    One deviation/hassle/caveat get a (VW) mechanic that KNOWS or specializes in TDI's.

    I am having ZERO issues with a 109,000 miles VW TDI. In truth the goals are a min of 500,000 miles to 1,000,000 miles. So far I have done the required 100,000 mile TB/WP change. The Honda's id due @ 105,000 miles (in 35,000 miles).
  • gnatman1102gnatman1102 Member Posts: 1
    I am on a waiting list for a 2009 TDI Sedan to replace a 1998 vehicle. I also own a 2006 Honda Civic Sedan. I have had several Honda products over the years. All have been very reliable, until now.

    In 36,000 miles (now out of warranty), the Civic has been in the shop to have both visors replaced. The originals split due to summertime heat. A rear shock failed, leaking fluid, which was replaced under warranty. The belt tensioner failed, which ripped up the belt. Fortunately, I was close enough to a Honda dealer to limp into their service garage just as the belt came apart, while making a horrendous noise. I am sure the noise alone surprised many customers visiting the lot. They just couldn't believe a fairly new Honda would make that kind of noise. It was repaired under a technical service bulletin. The sealing surface on the moonroof has to be lubricated constantly to keep it from squeaking. I am afraid that if I forget to lubricate it, it is going to fail soon. Fortunately, it gets loud enough even with the moonroof visor closed to remind me to lubricate it.

    I also have a friend that has a new Honda S2000. It has already been in the shop for a fuel system problem.

    I cannot complain too much. My Civic averages 38 mpg in all-around driving, but the build quality is not definitely there. I am wondering what else is going to fail now that the warranty is gone. I am glad that it doesn't seem to difficult to work on it.

    I can't wait to get the TDI because the build quality seems to be pretty good. I also have talked with several people that have owned earlier TDI models. None complained of reliability issues.
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Member Posts: 187
    No way' Read Consumers reports and look at J.D. Powers statistics on VW and Honda reliability & durability. Honda is head & soulders ahead of VW; plus, you aren't faced with $700. - $800. timing belt replacement with the Honda's. Look at the VW vs Honda blogs on Edmunds & compare the durability/reliability issues being discussed.

    I'm not anti VW. I almost bought an 06 TDI, The sales Mgr. wouldn't discuss service costs, so I called the backshop: Belt reolacement - $795.00. 100K service - $1200. I'd love to have a Passat to drive (55,000 miles a year) but I can't justify it because of the documented reliability &durability problems. They're making progress; but they're a long, long way from matching. Honda & toyota.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In my years as an auto mechanic we regarded VW as a "throw away" car and the Honda as infinitely repairable.

    VW has come a long ways since the Rabbit and Dasher days. Of course if you are talking about the old Bug, it is more repairable than any Honda on the road for a lot less money. I think if you look through the AutoTrader and eBay you will find a lot more old VWs still running from the late 70s and early 80s than Hondas. They were a disaster when I bought my new 1978 Accord. I would have bought a Dasher Diesel Wagon if there was not a years waiting list to get one.

    As ruking has pointed out working on any car today is highly technical. I know the VW store in Portland that I bought my Passat TDI from had just lost their top technician to another dealer. He wanted more than the $150k he was making at the VW Buick dealership. I too lament the days that tearing into my car was much simpler. I do not think any car today is meant by the manufacturer to go for 20+ years as in the "Good old days". We live in a throwaway society. Honda is just as much a part of that grand plan as all the other automakers.

    From 1976 to 1981 eBay has 6 total Hondas listed and 46 VWs. So longevity is not the realm that Honda dwells in. I would still take a 1978 Dasher diesel over a Honda Accord. In fact how many Hondas from 1979 and before can you find that are over $10,000? There are a bunch of VWs. Sounds to me like the VWs are "infinitely repairable". While Hondas just rust into oblivion.

    For those that live in the rust belts of America the VW Jetta TDI has the best rust warranty in the biz. The only ones that fantasize are those that believe in the tooth fairy and a world without diesel engines. Not in any of our lifetimes.
  • hebrewhammerhebrewhammer Member Posts: 34
    Anyone actually claiming that VW is better than Honda is terms of quality, reliability or durability is either drunk or high. Seriously.

    They are leagues apart. I've never heard more or read more horror stories, nor known more people personally, with issues, than those who own VWs.

    And I'm considering buying a VW !!! I'm doing so knowing it may well turn out to be a huge mistake, and am prepared to sell it once the warranty is up if it is.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Lessen people, this is not a contest between Honda and VW; Honda has a lot of followers, and has reputation for reliability in USA for a reason, people tested it over the years, they last past the 200,000 miles with minimal maintenance. And as I stated before all manufacturers have catch-up with Honda in this area and other areas. But the fact that bad reputation is difficult to erase quickly, in any field; it's going to be tough to convince american buyers. On the other hand VW has a good reputation in Europe, they last forever with minimal maintenance; but the fact that the gasoline Jetta we get in the states are built in Mexico with poor Quality in assembly line, poor or lack of training for technician, etc. But the JETTA diesel we get in USA is built in Germany, that is why some people that bought it in USA have a good experience driving the Jetta diesel for over 200K miles with minimal maintenance. VW knew about this quality problem, but they could not do a lot to fix the problem, they have to cut cost at all prices, but I guess whoever in charge does not understand the economy, they needed to send Mexican technicians to Germany for training, instead they send trainer to Mexico for a short 2 weeks training. VW is number one in Europe for a reason, they take their jobs seriousely, no joke. But they need to build factories here in USA, if they want to target this market, otherwise they are going to loose big time.
  • drvsalotdrvsalot Member Posts: 7
    what technical service bulletin? does it cover anythng besides the civic. i have an 03 odyssey that i was just told that mine is weak causing a sqeaking noise. i have a friend with an 04 odyssey that has the same thing happening and another aquaintence that has had one replaced.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Anyone actually claiming that VW is better than Honda is terms of quality, reliability or durability is either drunk or high. Seriously.

    I'll agree on average, the Honda is likely more reliabile. But look at consumer reports, JD Powers etc. The difference between the most reliable vehicles and the least reliable vehicles is within a couple problems over 3 years. Big deal.

    Quality? Depends on what you're talking about. Generally I'd say this goes to VW by quite a margin. My '00 Jetta would give an '07 Civic a run for its money in terms of materials, build quality, etc.

    Durability? I dunno, my experience with Honda is they're a bit fragile. I ran the snot out of my TDI and never had a mechanical issue to speak of. I did break the glove box and heated mirror knob. Of course Honda wasn't putting heated mirrors on their civics back in '00 so I guess what it doesn't have...can't break!

    My Odyssey has had far more repairs in 36k miles than my Jetta did in 180k. Does that mean Hondas are junk? No way, but I've never bought in that these reliability numbers amount to serious differences. Read the Honda forums and it would appear the only way you can get ridiculous mileage is to maintain the living crap out of them? Do the Honda manuals call for 3k mile oil changes or 15k mile tranny fluid changes? No, but I'm amazed (no....flabbergasted) at the maintenance routines many of these life-long Honda fans seem to feel is prudent if you really want the car to last. I guess that's why you see Chevys with a million miles in the news and the guy always says he maintained the thing like crazy.... I run the living snot out of most of my vehicles and maintain them according to the manual. So far my vote for what can take abuse is Toyota and VW. So far the Odyssey has been pretty fragile.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    WAY !! I have read CR and JD Powers. I even own a Civic and TDI side by side !! TB/WP are due on BOTH (03 TDI, 04 Civic). Tires for the VW TDI last 86% LONGER !! I have to say that both have been utterly reliable at the same mileage.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "Anyone actually claiming that VW is better than Honda is terms of quality, reliability or durability is either drunk or high. Seriously. "

    I am neither.
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    I now have both in my garage, 08 Odyssey and 08 Jetta SE. Both are too new to offer a reliability opinion. However, I am keeping my fingers crossed they only require 5K oil changes (honda) once or twice a year. In terms of build, the Jetta kills the Odyssey in materials and assembly. This US built Odyssey has more rattles and noise, and it feels cheap. Honda has also had their fare share of transmission issues over the past few years as well. That said, the powertrain is silky smooth and much more refined than the 2.5 in the Jetta. The Jetta's materials and ride quality are superb. It is quiet on the road, switch gear and seats are excellent, as is the night time interior lighting. It has many more unique features than any Honda at is price. I really would have a hard time having another US built Honda. My Japanese 2003 Nissan Pathfinder was as durable as they come. I wish I would have kept it, but the van is a MUCH more versatile family hauler.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Read post #2062; as I mentioned before, the reliability between Honda and VW is limited to a minor problems. For VW is the electrical system that create more problems to owners, like the switch that fail for windows motor, the switch for the outside mirrors, the check engine that come on because of faulty canister, this is part of the emission system. For Honda the problems are limited to rattling because of cheap plastic used to cut cost, noisy cabin at highway speed if the engine is an I4 with displacement bellow 2.0L, the brakes rotors have tendency to fade quickly, or create a vibration in steering wheel during braking. VW has a good quality material inside the cabin, but they have tendency to smell like hell after one year of use, I think the rubber and carpet used is of poor quality, it smells like a wet dog inside the cabin due to an extreme condensation, and because of good insulation. Honda in the past 5 years they start cutting cost by using poor quality material, because they know they can do it; they build up a big reputation, I never talked to anybody about Honda and said it&#146;s a piece of junk. But again, lately a few people start complaining about quality problem in Honda product, like the problem with 2004, 2005, 2006 transmission problems in the Odyssey minivan. All car Manufactures are coming up with good quality cars, Their engines last for long time, the only thing that consumer need to take in consideration is the resale value of the vehicle and the premium paid up front, and of course the size of the vehicle they need.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed my swag (on the Honda) the auto transmission will go before the engine. When it does almost all anecdotal and research information says a min of 1500 to 2,500 for repairs. Needless to say I hope it lasts far longer. At 40,000 miles, I have had to have an alignment vs not needing it on the VW @ app 104,000 miles!! Indeed it could have gone to 200,000 miles easily. I also think (measured actually) the brake pads and rotors, to go way before on the Honda. On the VW @ 109,000 miles, the front/rear pads are not even close to half worn. I swag the Honda's struts and shocks will need changing far earlier than the VW TDI. The paint job is not near the quality of the VW. I could go on and on.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For Honda the problems are limited to rattling because of cheap plastic used to cut cost, noisy cabin at highway speed if the engine is an I4 with displacement bellow 2.0L, the brakes rotors have tendency to fade quickly, or create a vibration in steering wheel during braking.

    Quit it, I cannot stop laughing. You would drive a car that has rattles, noisy at speed and has marginal brakes?

    I test drove a Yaris. It was noisy by my standards making it a no way purchase. The little POC econoboxes being sold to save a little gas are crazy. When you can buy a solid, great handling car that gets great mileage, money should be the only factor.

    I understand if you cannot afford the VW Jetta TDI. Then go for a little POC Hondas. I am not at all impressed with our Pastor's 07 Honda Civic. I make every excuse to drive our 1990 LS400 or Sequoia when we all go someplace. I am not into sardine can transportation.

    You keep mentioning the window switches on the VW Jetta. My understanding is VW repaired those at no cost long after the warranty was up. As far as timing belts, my 2007 Toyota Sequoia requires a belt change at 90K I believe it is. Not that I will ever put 90k on the vehicle.

    If you buy a VW Jetta with the gas engine it makes little sense to me. They do not get great mileage. I guess you still get the great driving experience for less money. It never occurred to me to own one.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    I wrote an email to VWAG basically saying they need to put a thumb on their dealers as they are asking $5K over MSRP. The response is below;

    Welcome to the Volkswagen website. We appreciate your comments and they
    have been noted.

    Volkswagen dealerships are empowered to create policies and procedures
    suitable for their business needs, therefore, pricing, availability, and
    policies may vary. We offer the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Prices
    as such. The final, negotiated price is ultimately determined between
    the customer and Volkswagen dealer.

    Also spoke with a VW dealer in Bremerton, WA. All of the 2009 allotment of TDI&#146;s have been pre sold or spoken for.

    Maybe this time next year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would not let that be the last effort, especially if you are still interested. Anymore, affinity groups have led to buying cars from dealers in different states. I worked with a broker that happened to be a GM products dealership and got an 03 VW TDI. Put the word out.
  • hebrewhammerhebrewhammer Member Posts: 34
    My G-D!!! You guys are delusional!!! If you have a VW that has been problem free, consider yourself the exception, and not the rule. It's just the opposite for Honda.

    If you want the bare truth on reliability, go to the 2008 Consumer Reports Buying Guide, which is based on over a quarter of a million surveys, and look at the difference between ALL COMPONENTS of Honda versus Volkswagen.

    They break it down by engine, transmission, suspension, trim, heating and cooling systems, fuel systems, etc., etc.

    Honda is all top notch, even 6 and 7 year old Hondas! Volkswagen quality disintegrates after the first year!!! Even 5 year old Hondas are far more reliable than one year old VWs!!!

    I mean, please, be even somewhat realistic. Like I said, I am considering purchasing a VW, because they have more character than Honda, but I also know it's a truly risky proposition given VWs inability to reign in their quality control issues. It's not just electrical problems, not by a long stretch.

    www.myvwlemon.com :lemon:
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Look man, no matter what you said HONDA sell more cars in USA than VW. HONDA reputation in USA far exceed VW. Not all these people are wrong and you're the smart person who all figure it out. Diesel is good but it is not a good choice at this time, because the gap is widening between gas and diesel. Read post # 2008. The numbers prove that buying diesel in the future does not make any financial sense; unless you&#146;re one of those people that are saying Biodiesel is going to be cheap, once they come up with a way to extract it cheaply.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you want the bare truth on reliability, go to the 2008 Consumer Reports Buying Guide, which is based on over a quarter of a million surveys

    I for one would NEVER buy a car recommended by CR on purpose. Their recommendations are based on surveys of their subscription holders. Get the picture? Who subscribes to CR? Just those people that like their reports. Mostly Japanese car buyers. Honda had a good run in the 1990s. They are still living off that reputation. They have not done as well the last several years. You like Honda buy em. That is what they are here for. I personally am not considering it.

    I am not trying to say that VW has some kind of stellar record for reliability. I am saying if you have driven a VW then a Honda you know why some folks like the VW better. They feel solid on the road. They are quiet and they stop VERY well. I loved driving my VW Passat TDI Wagon. I some times wonder if I should have kept it. Greed for profit makes me do crazy things. If it was 3 inches higher from the ground I would have kept it. I just like a higher vehicle for getting in and out of and not worrying about driving off a curb.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If all you care about it getting from home to work you are better off with a Fit or Yaris. I personally like driving through the hills on windy roads. There the VW diesels excel. I would not be able to stand listening to a little gas 4 banger screaming up Interstate 8 at 70 MPH. My diesels all pull those long grades in high gear. Diesel will have to go a LOT higher to be a bad deal. You like our ethanol laced gas, that is fine with me. It is your money you are throwing away.

    HONDA sell more cars in USA than VW

    I guess that means that Toyota, GM and Ford are all better than Honda as they sell more vehicles. VW sells more than BMW, Porsche and MB, so what is your point?

    I don't think that biodiesel will be as cheap as fossil diesel until Oil supplies start to diminish. It is an alternative for the future.
  • hebrewhammerhebrewhammer Member Posts: 34
    gagrice said: I for one would NEVER buy a car recommended by CR on purpose. Their recommendations are based on surveys of their subscription holders. Get the picture? Who subscribes to CR? Just those people that like their reports. Mostly Japanese car buyers. Honda had a good run in the 1990s. They are still living off that reputation. They have not done as well the last several years. You like Honda buy em. That is what they are here for. I personally am not considering it.

    I am not trying to say that VW has some kind of stellar record for reliability. I am saying if you have driven a VW then a Honda you know why some folks like the VW better. They feel solid on the road. They are quiet and they stop VERY well. I loved driving my VW Passat TDI Wagon. I some times wonder if I should have kept it. Greed for profit makes me do crazy things. If it was 3 inches higher from the ground I would have kept it. I just like a higher vehicle for getting in and out of and not worrying about driving off a curb.

    I am considering a VW because I AGREE WITH YOU - VW's drive better than Honda's. They're more solid, teutonic and quieter.

    But there is no way in hades I believe that VW is even close to Honda in terms of trouble free, reliable ownership experience. Honda is far more reliable. And Consumer Reports IS a solid foundation of reliability information, IMO.

    Like I said, is there a chance that a person can get a problematic Honda, while another gets a trouble-free VW? Sure. But statistically speaking, the opposite is much, much, much more likely.

    There is nothing I hate worse than problems with a car - especially repeated problems. It saps any confidence one has in their vehicle, and sucks the life out of the ownership experience more than anything else.
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