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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."You guys are delusional!!! If you have a VW that has been problem free, consider yourself the exception, and not the rule. It's just the opposite for Honda. "...

    Again, Hardly. All I am doing to comparing them side by side. It is really time you got over the shock.

    As for the statistical chances, if what you say is true, then the REVERSE of what you assert is true: the VW TDI has more of a chance to be statistically average to mediocre or worse. I also have a statistically better chance of getting an exceptional Honda. Neither in my case happens to be true. My take is I have an AVERAGE Civic & Jetta TDI.

    However there really is no Honda TDI to compare it with, but my VW TDI will NOT have Honda gasser type problems.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    First GM and Ford sells numbers are based on Trucks and SUVs not on Sedans and Compact cars, you should not make that comparison. But you can compare Toyota to Honda, Accord and Civic against Camry and Corolla; both these two manufacturers rules in USA because of QUALITY and RELIABITLITY. it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to stick to your believes.
    The other thing I do not see diesel as future alternative energy or the solution to our energy crisis, the future will belong to hybrid, half Electric for city driving and half combustion engine for highway driving and back road fun. That’s why I will not put any money in any vehicle now, until I see what kind of hybrid vehicles will take the lead.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "The difference between the most reliable vehicles and the least reliable vehicles is within a couple problems over 3 years. Big deal."
    ===========================================================
    People who are not excited by a trip to the dealer will find this so called"Big Deal" a significant issue and will avoid buying a car that takes them there. Take a look at the CR owner satisfaction ratings to get a good feel of how that, and other factors makes Honda the preferred choice over VW by a wide margin by people who own and drive them. My anecdotal experience with a Ford Pinto, like yours with your cars, does not translate to overall real world experience - my Pinto was the most reliable car I ever owned out of more than 40 - I drove it to over 100K miles and sold it for more than I had paid for it used. In the real world the Pinto was a pretty unreliable car.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Could you quantify the Consumer Reports results for us? I'll give you that statistically the Honda always is rated higher than VW. But you realize that the difference between the best and worst is minimal. Using the real numbers that JD Powers shows for the first three years....Honda averages 1.69 problems and VW averages 2.98. That's a huge variance as a percentage....but not much in real world. If I cared about one extra trip to the dealer in three years I would have run my Honda Odyssey off a cliff after the sixth or seveth trip....
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    The following are the total 2007 vehicle sales by manufacturer.

    1. Toyota 9,366,000

    2. GM 8,902,252

    3. Volkswagen 6,191,618,

    4. Ford 5,964,000

    5. Hyundai-Kia 3,961,629

    6. Honda 3,831,000

    7. Nissan 3,675,574

    8. PSA/Peugeot 3,428,400

    9. Chrysler 2,676,268

    10. Fiat 2,620,864

    Not that it means anything as far as quality but VW outsold Honda by a vast number of vehicles worldwide.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Thanks for the list. I am surprised VW past Ford also. I think they have the best small diesel engines on the road and their sales reflect that. I am not sure they sell many gassers in the rest of the World. They do sell a lot of E100 cars in Brazil.

    VW will be gunning for GM next. They got a ways to go.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I saw a picture of the Chinese police getting ready for the Olympics in Peking. Behind them in the picture were row after row after row of police cruisers. All VWs.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM and VW are the biggest foreign car companies in China by far. I am surprised that the Chinese even let Japan into the country. There is no love lost there.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    moderators and others, please direct me to the VW Jetta TDI forum?
    For example, the one where axe-grinding Hondaphile talk is avoided, for example?
    Maybe a Jetta vs Civic specific forum? Or a VW TDI haters forum?
    I don't know.
    There must be an actual TDI/diesel forum on edmunds somewhere - I'll look around...
  • cosmocosmo Member Posts: 203
    AMEN! Considering the small differences in percentages of reported problems between CR's "much better than average", "better than average", "average", "worse than average", and "much worse than average" models, I'll buy and drive a car that is comfortable, fun, economical, fun, safe, and fun. Oh, it looks like CR would recommend an Audi or VW based on my criteria. I'm 62 now. When I hit 100 maybe I'll consider driving a Honda or Toyota, but I sure hope not. And since this is a TDI forum, let me add that VW did not throw out fun to make room for the turbodiesel engine.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    look man, if you are talking about fun, Honda is the place to go. On race track VW could not even do 70 degree turn at 65 mph without loosing contact with road, if the driver had not lower the speed that car would be on it's back. The Honda accord did turn at 75 MPH without any wheel loosing contact with the asphalt. These two cars are stock no modification whatsoever. Talking about confidence, as I said I own the Jetta and the Accord, and I know how they drive. For commuting the Jetta is a good car, for commuting and having fun driving a real car, Honda Accord is the best. Remember the only Car that use double wishbone suspension in their setup like a race car, plus stabilizer bars front and rear. Not the cheap MacPherson strut front and four-link rear independent suspension the JETTA uses. You want me to keep going, I am afraid I am going to get more technical to the point you’re not going to understand what I am saying. At the end of the day buy the car that suit your age, and satisfy you, and most of all you can afford, but do not say is better than X brand or Y brand.
  • cosmocosmo Member Posts: 203
    I've driven Accords and Civics. Without getting too technical for you, ... BORING.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Look man, if you are talking about fun, Honda is the place to go.

    You're not for real, are you? Honda may build some racing engines. The Accord is not hardly a racing platform to compare with the Jetta. The Jetta TDI has its own racing series. What has Honda got in racing here in the USA? I see several environmental groups praising the VW Jetta TDI racing series. It is carbon free. Does Honda sell any car that is carbon FREE?

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/31/vw-jetta-tdi-cup-racing-series-coming-to- - -a-track-near-you-in-200/

    2008 Jetta TDI Cup
    But in the meantime, an interesting development is the Jetta TDI Cup, a carbon neutral (certified by Carbonfund.org) event sponsored by Volkswagen. The vehicles are getting about 25 miles per gallon in racing conditions, which is about 500% better than many race cars, and better than many regular vehicles that are never used in demanding conditions.

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/06/2008-jetta-tdi-cup-motor-racing.php

    PS
    The last Honda that would be fun to road race was the CRX. Nothing since except the S2000.
  • obieobie Member Posts: 39
    Elias, I feel ya brother.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's get back to the TDI Jetta here, please. If anyone wants to continue the Honda comparisons, feel free to open another topic.

    Thanks!
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    To those of you that have looked hard at or already put money down on a new TDI Jetta, can you tell me where the major components are sourced? Specifically, the engine, the transmission, and the final assembly point. I've got no axe to grind on any particular source, I'm just curious. The last time I looked at a window sticker on a TDI VW, I thought the engine was actually assembled in Poland and the transmission in Japan.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    The Jetta Diesel has 8% of its parts coming from USA/Canada, 35% coming from Germany, and 35% coming from Mexico. The final assembly point is Puebla, Mexico. The engine is made in Poland and the transmission is made in Germany. I hope this help.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."The fifth generation car has the widest variety of names of any generation. In most countries, it is referred to as the Jetta. Exceptions to this include "Bora" in Mexico and Colombia, "Vento" in Argentina and Chile, and "Sagitar" in China."...

    link title
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    The jetta is called "BORA" in Europe too. and in North African countries.
  • obieobie Member Posts: 39
    As noted above, final assembly of all Jettas, including TDI sedan, takes place in Mexico.While we don't know for sure about the JSW/TDI, gasser wagons are finally assembled in Mexico. I assume that will be true of the diesel wagon too. In fact, I think since 2005 Puebla has been the sole source of MkV Jettas/Boras for the world market, as it is for the New Beetle.

    Although the 1.9 liter Pumpe-Deuse (sp.?) engines of the earlier TDI's were built in Poland, I believe the CRD engine in the '09 TDI is Made in Germany, as is the DSG transmission. ;) The automatic transmission on gasser Jettas is Japanese built.

    I don't recall where the manual transmissions are built for TDIs or gassers. :confuse:
  • ndmike88ndmike88 Member Posts: 155
    We have bought GM for the past 30 years. We took a chance on VW when we bought my wifes 08 Jetta Wolfsburg. I feel VW's quality is better than it was before and improving each and every year. If the gamble we took works out we will buy VW again. If not.....chalk it up to experience.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,830
    I can't stay off the VW lot.. Having owned Hondas for most of the last 25 years, I know I should stay away, but they look so bright and shiny... ;)

    Hey... if you have someone that can pick you up at the dealership, you've got that 4-yr warranty... Why not take the chance? Life is too short to drive boring cars (that's what we say when we get old..lol).

    I'm not too sure about the quality being better.. They sure seem well put together at first inspection, though..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I can't stay off the VW lot.. Having owned Hondas for most of the last 25 years, I know I should stay away, but they look so bright and shiny...

    There may be a Honda support group somewhere that can help you with that problem. :)
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    I'm sure people here have already crunched the numbers with regards to the cost of using diesel vs. gas and if there are any real savings. Well, I compared the Jetta Sportwagon gas vs. the SportWagon TDI and applied it to my 350 mile weekly commute to work. Around here, diesel is $4.69/gal vs. 3.84/gal gas. When I punch these #'s into my calculator considering the difference in MPG between these vehicles, I get a savings of exactly $5 a week for the TDI. So that's it. Now if Diesel prices started to go much more south (skeptical) there might be some real savings. Hope this helps someone. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed it is good to see other perspectives. I see it side by side with another economy leader Honda Civic. While the prices here are different (corner store 4.79/4.13 ), lets use yours @ 4.69/ 49 mpg=.0957 per mile driven, vs 3.84/38=.10 cents= 4%..When you compare it against a like model diesel (03 Jetta TDI 49 mpg vs 2.0/1.8T 29 mpg rug/pug, the cost difference is a no brainer.

    The thing that is not rewarded nor acknowledged is the fact the diesel ACTUALLY uses 29% LESS fuel than the gasser. (49-38=11/38).

    Again compared against a like model diesel, it is along the lines of (49-29==20/29=) 69% This "hidden in plain sight" fact operatively tells me CUTTING fuel use is a SHAM. Getting the price UP (per mile driven) and controlling behavior is really what is going on.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Unless VW has been struck by lightning, or you are willing to cope with a less reliable car than Honda, then stay away from VW until you see the owner satisfaction and reliability numbers turning your way. Otherwise life will look not only short, but dismal!
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    Bye folks - I'll be moving along to find forums here and elsewhere that are free of the trolls & haters!
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Here we go again, another dealer in this forum trying to rally people to buy the Jetta diesel. As stated before the saving is not even worth it to consider, unless you’re so in Love with diesel that got to have one. Taking your numbers and crunching them, the result is bellow:
    First the Jetta diesel is rated 41 MPG in the highway, what you can get doing hyper-milling is not reality, because the same is true for other vihicles.
    Price of diesel is $4.69 using your numbers,
    Price of RUG is $3.84 using your numbers,
    Price per mile diving for diesel = $4.69/41 = $0.114
    Price per mile diving for RUG = $3.84/29 = $0.132
    Considering you drive on average 12000 miles / year your cost for each vehicle is:
    Total cost of fuel for the diesel car = $0.114 * 12,000 = $1368
    Total cost of fuel for the RUG car = $0.132 * 12,000 = $1584
    The difference in saving between the two cars is only ($216), it will take 10 years to break even for the premium price paid up front for the diesel ($2160) and this is considering that you get the ($1300) tax credit. The math is clear, it shows that this country is not ready for diesel, unless VW price the diesel and the Gasoline cars at the same prices, or the government start taxing diesel at the same rate as gasoline.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The two VWs I have owned, one a 1967 Bug and a 2005 Passat TDI were both far better than the 1978 Honda Accord. So you can read and believe CR all you like. Life is too short to be bored to tears with a Honda. Does Honda build buses now, or does the new Accord just look big enough to be a bus?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."First the Jetta diesel is rated 41 MPG in the highway, what you can get doing hyper-milling is not reality, because the same is true for other vihicles. "...

    Indeed I listed the "OTHER" vehicle (Civic) !!?? If you wish to say we only do "hyper-miling" in the VW and NOT the Civic, you would be WRONG. We do not do hypermiling at all during the daily commute of which we get VW TDI 48-52 mpg/ Civic 38-42 mpg. Again you would be WRONG. The comparisons were listed.

    But you lost this argument in prior posts. I understand your bias. I take umbrage when you masquerade it as FACT and accuse me of bias.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not sure where you come up with you pricing. Here on Edmund's the Jetta TDI is less than a $1000 over a comparably equipped gasser. So with the rebate it is a No Brainer to buy the TDI. Unless you are so crazy to get a diesel you pay a premium over MSRP. I know MANY people did that with the hybrids when they first came out. Just not wise use of money.

    I don't think you are seeing the big picture. There are a lot of people that are interested in using less fuel. They may not want a hybrid and that leaves only one other choice. That choice will not run on gasoline. I for one will NEVER buy another new gas car. I HATE the gas sold in CA. It gives below EPA mileage with all the ethanol and other crap they put into it. It is designed to reap more road tax. That is why they call it Designer Gas.

    If you are so concerned about not breaking even with a diesel car because of the higher price of diesel. Get a Yaris for $12k. My son in law gets 40 MPG with his on a regular basis. In fact you can buy two for the price of a Jetta TDI or Prius. His and Her's Yaris. Or if you really want to save money find an old Geo Metro and get 50 MPG.
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Well, Honda has come a long way since the '78 Accord. I have/currently owned/own several VW and Honda products (see my carspace). Reliability for me between the two has been comparable. My '81 VW diesel ended up with 250k miles on it. My '04 Golf had no major issues. My '04 MDX has been bullet-proof. However, among the general population, VW's reliability is well below Honda/Acura. Maybe I just take better car of my cars......... :blush:
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Aw, come on elias, we just ignore those types! :P
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    VW/BMW/ MB etc, are truly CARS as opposed to the appliance mentality Honda and Toyota , etc has taken. I truly do not mean this perjoratively, as I own or have owned ALL of the above categories. A no brainer is if one wants an appliance, stay away from ANYTHING that is NOT on the short list of Japanese oems!!! Like you, I do not treat the Honda/Toyota like appliances and they are just as reliable as the VW: some would say vice versa.

    While this is apples to oranges, I have had to change drive belts (A/C, starter alternator) at 90-91k on all 4/5 Toyota Landcruisers. (the 5th one I sold @ 55,000 miles) ALL were @ some stage of FRAYED. So I will be able to say @ 500,000 miles to see if any of the next 4 belts got frayed on the TDI.

    This was not so for the serpentine and timing belt for the VW TDI.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Since you don't care about the money, and you don't care about the conservation of energy, you are in the wrong forum. Go the the BMW or Mercedes forum. We are here talking to middle class people that they don't make more that $150K/ year. We care here about energy saving, and about money spent on transportation that will serve the same purpose as Jetta diesel with less out of pocket. I just prouved that you're dealer here in this forum trying to make case for buying the Jetta diesel. Remember if you care about the environment, you should know that It takes more crude oil to extract the same quantity of Diesel than it takes for gasoline. and that is why the Diesel is expensive, and it only going up, because refinery here in USA they shipped it to Europe, they make a good profit, because of the weak Dollar against the EURO. A lot of people talking about giving a green light to oil companies to drill off-shore and in Alska thinking that will lower the price of gasoline in USA; they are wrong, that is just going to make these companies richer more than they are already; because they are going to refine it and sell it to higher biders out of the country. USA is based on free market, and there is no regulation that impose on any company to sell its product to specific buyer. There you have it.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    Read post #2112. and don't mislead people on information unfounded and wrong. You’re the one who lost this argument before, because the fuel saving versus the cost calculation shows that you’re wrong. You believe in Diesel go buy it. You have a car on Ebay and you’re trying to sell it at higher price, this is not the way to do it. People are not idiot, VW is going the wrong direction, this US market is going to be ruled by two companies Toyota Hybrid, and Honda Hybrid or plug-ins.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Dear Friend. I suggest you click on my or any of the other profiles for the folks you think are "dealers" trying to brainwash the masses. You will see most of us have been here for 7+ YEARS, or at least since the site was reset 7 years ago....I believe I first registered in '99. Either way, none of us "regulars" are dealers, just enthusiasts of cars/trucks/etc. I have had personal conversations with Gary (gagrice) off this forum many years ago and I can assure you he's not here just to try and sell a blasted car or two. Perhaps Gary and I are not the exact demographic that the TDI is aimed. Perhaps were are and you're just not realizing that just because someone makes more money, they somehow don't care about cost/benefit. There's usually a reason for wealth accumulation. All I know is that during the seven years I had my TDI, I saved thousands of dollars in fuel, resale value, and operating costs over any gas car that would have been nearly as satisfying to drive. And there were plenty of folks bad-mouthing them back then. Mainly Honda dealers........ :P
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Member Posts: 187
    You forgot to add EXPENSIVE!
  • ksmigelksmigel Member Posts: 56
    I am new to this, but can someone explain to me whether I would be better off buying a Jetta TDI compared to a Toyota Corolla from a fuel economy standpoint?

    The Corolla I was quoted is just over $17,800, which is quite a bit less expensive than the Jetta, and the Corolla gets 26 mpg city and 40 mpg highway.

    I know that Diesel is about 75 cents more per gallon than regular unleaded, so I'm not sure if the 5 thousand dollar savings on the Corolla will offset the higher cost of diesel and higher purchase price of the Jetta.

    I plan on keeping the car for at least 6 years.

    Thank you,

    Karen
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Read post #2112. and don't mislead people on information unfounded and wrong."...

    You are the one doing the misleading based on flat wrong information!

    ..."You’re the one who lost this argument before, because the fuel saving versus the cost calculation shows that you’re wrong."...

    The cost calculations were done in prior posts right in front of you. You didn''t even bother to run your numbers.

    ..."You believe in Diesel go buy it."...

    It is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of lack of availability. Yes I did buy one! One reason why it is relatively unavailable isbecause the regulators know it is more cost effective per mile driven; when they want to increase the cost per mile driven.

    ..."VW is going the wrong direction, this US market is going to be ruled by two companies Toyota Hybrid, and Honda Hybrid or plug-ins."...

    For my .02 cents NO! NO! and especially NO under the current tax structure.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Karen,
    Welcome to the Forum. If I were you I would go with the Corolla. It is a good car and gets decent mileage. If you look at pay back as a major criteria you will not be able to justify the Jetta TDI. If you really like to get out and drive cross country there are some benefits to the Jetta that you will not get with the Corolla. There will more than likely be a limited supply of the Jetta TDI for the next year or maybe longer. That will impact the price you will be paying. Right now the Corolla is priced right and cars like the Prius and Jetta TDI are Over priced.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually the whole small car segment is currently "overpriced". That is the good/bad news. It is truly weird even to me that we can sell a 4/5 year old Civic for $500 less than what we paid new! Between a Corolla/Civic, we got the Civic. We plan to keep it a min of 450,000 miles. So with you keeping it only 6 years. I would consider others that are even cheaper.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Since you don't care about the money, and you don't care about the conservation of energy, you are in the wrong forum.

    If you could look back at the posts from 1998 you would find my original search was for a small diesel PU truck. I had talked to a couple of fellows from Brazil that had driven a Ranger diesel PU from the tip of So America to the Arctic Ocean where I was working. They had averaged 45 MPG and I wanted just such a PU truck. However the USA being the backward country we are instead of charging more tax for fuel and trying to use less, we go along with the oil companies and use more which in the end provides plenty of road tax. You may not know that we have the best Congress that the lobbyist money can buy. You are right in the fact that I may buy a MB or BMW diesel SUV and sell my Sequoia. That does not mean I am not interested in the diesels that VW have to offer. I check each day for a nice used VW Beetle TDI or Golf TDI as a runabout. So you see I have probably been interested in saving fuel for longer than you have. I started in 1969 buying a VW Beetle to save on gas. Probably the worst car I ever owned was a 1978 Honda Accord. That said:

    If you think so highly of the Toyota and Honda Hybrids why are you in the VW diesel forum? You should be over there telling people how there is no way you can pay $35k for a Prius and ever get your money back. They will love you over there.

    PS
    Don't go and test drive the VW Jetta TDI, you will just be frustrated driving a Honda or Toyota.

    This is all I was interested in. They were able to drive in the USA. Just not be sold in the USA. 45 MPG vs 15 MPG in a Ranger V6 gasser. You do the math.

    image
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I do not think you understand my previous messages; I am not against the Diesel cars, I have been driving Diesel more than you did all your life. Remember I came from Europe precisely from France, 65% of the cars are diesel, most small cars from Peugeot and Renault and Citroen are Diesel and can get as much as 60 MPG, because they are not heavy and they have good (cd#). But when it come to Diesel against Gasoline here in USA, there is too many people in the government and the oil companies, that they don’t like the idea of alternative fuel energy. If tomorrow the Hydrogen fuel cell is perfected to the point that the system in those cars can produce the hydrogen from water or other source of energy; oil companies will be trying to push the government to apply some kind of taxes to those cars. Too many lobbyist in this country, everybody is thinking of himself.
    Diesel gives you better fuel mileage, but it cost more to make a gallon of diesel out of crude oil, than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. Remember the amount of BTU in Diesel is more than the amount of BTU in gasoline, and that is for reason; it takes more crude oil to make 1 gallon of diesel. Another factor, is the gasoline technology is closing the gap in MPG that diesel achieve vs the MPG gasoline does. The new direct injection engine increased the fuel economy for some cars by 10%, heated fuel line, high pressure injection system (robust injectors and fuel pumps) will increase the MPG by another 20%. Haven’t you see that GM is coming up with a replacement for the Chevy COBALT, called (CRUZE) that can achieve 40 MPG; it is due in (2010). I guess the love connection that use to exist between oil companies and US auto makers are thing of the past, now every one of these companies is trying to survive. You think the gas price went down just like that; there are different factors that pushes the price back where it suppose to be.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."there is too many people in the government and the oil companies, that they don’t like the idea of alternative fuel energy"...

    You are saying precisely (not the same words however) what we have been saying all along!

    ..."Diesel gives you better fuel mileage, but it cost more to make a gallon of diesel out of crude oil, than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. "...

    The first part of your sentence is TRUE enough. However the rest of your sentence is FALSE based on a misunderstanding of the distillation process. Upshot: technologically from a barrel of oil; 100% of either product can not be distilled. Gagrice alluded to it when he has said several times if we have gasoline we have diesel and vice versa. If you want a more technological explanation Chevron.com might be a great place with informational overload, to start.
  • malmouzamalmouza Member Posts: 141
    I did crunch the numbers in front of you; go back to my previous posts. Any 5th grader can do this calculation and he/she will tell you that you loose with the Diesel. That’s not considering the fact that the market next year is coming with more refined and fuel efficient cars, trucks and CUV, than you can think of right now. Auto manufacturers have been squeezed to the point that they are working under pressure right now. Gasoline engine is getting refined and they are closing the gap in MPG against the Diesel engines. Production of new models like the electric/ hybrid car VOLT from GM is now suppose to be released 1 year earlier than was announced before. Don’t get me wrong, Diesel is good, but not that good, compared with alternatives. There are two things that need to happen before people start considering the diesel cars, first the price of Diesel cars need to be no more than $1000 difference with comparable gasoline, second the states and the federal government need to tax the Diesel at the same rate as the gasoline. If these two thing does not happen in the near future, the Diesel does not have a chance in hell, and who ever own diesel in the next 5 years from now, will be stack with car that worth nothing just keep driving it. As I said something has to change to make the Diesel viable fuel for cars in USA.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The new direct injection engine increased the fuel economy for some cars by 10%

    Lo and behold, what the automakers give you the government takes away. They are adding 10% ethanol that on average reduces our gas mileage by 10%. That is a MAJOR reason that I do not like gas vehicles. Straight regular unleaded is a decent fuel. When the government mandated MTBE it polluted our ground water. Now they are adding ethanol that will cause who knows what yet. Your argument that they are adding ethanol to diesel has no basis in fact. I do not know of anywhere in the USA they are adding ethanol to the diesel. So the big mileage advantage for diesel still exists. I am not saying our government will not figure a way to reduce our mileage. They are good at that. I really do not care about a Cobalt or a Cruze. I could buy an old Honda CRX HF and get 50 MPG today. Plus they were one of the few cars Honda ever made that were fun to drive. I want comfort, good handling, and good economy. With the ability to go off the highway into the desert without dragging on the rocks. Do you get the picture? The only vehicles that fit that are SUVs with diesel engines. I could consider an SUV as small as the VW Tiquan if it comes with a diesel engine and gets close to 40 MPG on the highway. I would be real excited about the Sportwagon TDI if it had about 3 more inches of ground clearance.

    I would give Toyota or Honda a look if and when they bring a diesel SUV to the US market. Nothing they have right now interests me in the least.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    What you did was incorrect then, and is still incorrect.

    I did the math in terms of fuel cost per mile driven, and it is MORE than clear the per mile driven cost is cheaper for diesel. No real magic why they price diesel far more than RUG. PUG of course is closer in price to D2. Of course, those in total denial, might not agree. ;)

    Indeed when you peel back the layers, it is easy to see one of the reasons why Europe can charge outrageous per gal prices for RUG to PUG and D2 is because upwards of 50% of the vehicle fleet is D2 !!??? The unused/unsold RUG to PUG being sold to a 98% USA RUG to PUG consumer !!! Truly it is the "OTHER" side of the distillation percentage deal !!! Indeed I have shown on a few posts, that "per mile driven", we pay pretty much the same as Europe !!!!! So it is pretty easy to make $4. cost the same as $9 dollar gas. (per mile driven) It is the same 5th grade math!!! RATIOS!!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I did crunch the numbers in front of you; go back to my previous posts

    You know something? Many of us here have crunched the numbers on the hybrids vs gas vs diesel. The bottom line is if you just need an economical car and do not care about amenities, handling, braking, comfort, safety, you are better off with a Fit or a Yaris. There is NO WAY any of the hybrids or diesels can compete dollar for dollar. So crunch to your hearts content. There are those that like what the hybrids offer and those that like what diesel has to offer. And we are not worried about the premium. Some things cannot be crunched.

    PS
    I still have the $27k in the bank from selling my 2005 Passat TDI. I made a $3k profit after driving the car for 13 months. Try that with any Honda.
  • peachtree103peachtree103 Member Posts: 182
    A couple of years ago when I actively posted here, the hosts would constantly warn and/or shut down threads that go off topic or become flame wars.

    Why are all the diesel threads allowed to get bogged down with total crap that has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

    "Diesels in the News" rarely ever mentions any of the new products in the pipeline. It's a constant battle of hybrid vs. diesel, and environuts vs. the anti Carb folks.

    Now this thread, which has the first significant mass market diesel car in years, has become the same.

    The continued refusal of the hosts to moderate these comments continues Edmunds lack coverage to upcoming diesels.

    (...stepping off soapbox)
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