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VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    mike, take a number, if you read the owner reviews on the new VW Sportwagons, no steering wheel controls is about all everyone is complaining about.

    Considering that the SW, costs a premium price over the Sedan, I think VW dropped the ball on this one.

    To retro a Jetta Steering Wheel with the audio controls onto a SW would probably involve a different wiring harness right to the computer as those buttons are also linked to the muti function trip display as well as the bluetooth conections.

    I know it sucks that VW didn't think SW owners would want those controls, but it might be easier to install a new radio that uses a hand held remote to tune and volume.

    When I changed the head unit in my Honda Odyssey I lost the steering wheel controls as well, but the little remote that sits in a cup holder runs all the functions just as well, including 'power off and on'.

    But still...... :mad:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought that was standard on anything above a stripped Yaris. My 2005 Passat TDI had all the controls on the steering wheel. That and no leather would be hard for me to accept. Does it have XM or Sirius and a CD changer? Looking at the VW website it looks like they worried more about wheels and bling than the important stuff on the interior. I would rather have the Audi Allroad Quattro with the same engine that is being sold in 1st World countries. I got the local Audi dealer all fired up looking for them. Of course he tried selling me everything on his lot. I don't really like the looks of the Q5 or Q7. I may test drive the Q7 TDI that is in stock now. I like the Touareg TDI somewhat better. A little smaller which I can live with.
  • mortalmortal Member Posts: 1
    Howdy folks,

    I've recently become interested in the new tdi engines that vw is putting in some of it's new models.

    I was on car and driver earlier, and I noticed that the 'passing acceleration' for the tdi was astonishingly quick.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/126293/1711316/version/1/file/2009+- Volkswagen+Jetta+TDI.pdf

    "50-70 6 seconds"

    Now, I understand diesels enjoy an advantage at highway speeds due to the amount of torque they produce at lower rpms. However, this number is faster than a honda fit, gti, a mini cooper s, miata, etc virtually every thing else on my shopping list (in terms of passing power).

    While I believe it would be reasonibly fast, certainly faster than the honda fit (which did the same test in ~12 seconds), I find it very hard to believe that it is faster than the others. I believe they must have gotten the math wrong. For example, if you look at the test sheet, and you compare the 50mph time with the 70mph time you get 5.1s, not the 6 seconds they claim.

    Does anyone have any other sources that provide a 40-70 ish number?
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    I did drive a TDI and I know its slower in the 1/4 mile by 2 seconds I think, compared to the gas turbo 4, it did not feel slow at all. Love that torque!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Even after 125,000 miles, it still amazes me to pass V8's (heading UP) @ altitudes of 3,000 to 7,000 ft. !!!
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    Engine power (hp pr kw) to weight ratio is what determines max acceleration whether on level ground or up a hill. The transmission can change torque, but not power.

    A Jetta TDI can pass a naturally aspirated V8 if the Jetta driver puts the pedal to the floor and the V8 driver doesn't care to contest the matter. Or if the V8 is powered car is relatively heavy.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Yes, passing-performance of the TDI is impressive. In-fact, you could race from stoplight-to-stoplight with a TDI and STILL burn less fuel than any other car beside you.

    Are you really basing your vehicle-choice on this type of stastistic?

    Example, I *really* like the fact that VW automaticlly locks all the doors once you are moving. But my Subaru Baja does not do this and I end up driving around with the doors unlocked. Do I like the Subaru less than the VW.... no!

    I like the 56MPG of my TDI and the accellaration of the turbocharged subaru engine.

    The VW handles FAR better than Subaru : VW rides better than VW.

    VW radio and power-windows work with key turned off : Subaru does not do this.

    VW can lower/raise all windows FROM OUTSIDE CAR : Subaru does not do this

    Subaru has AWD and excells in the snow : VW is adequate in the snow with ESP, ADR and EDL.

    VW is more refined with featuers not found in other vehicles. This is one reason we have 3 VWs in the family.

    If Subaru offered the Baja as a Diesel, I would own one in a hearbeat... but they dont.

    Every vehicle has its up/down side and it is often difficult to make a choice when they are all considerd. Test drive what you want and chose what you personally like. Good Luck.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I believe they must have gotten the math wrong. For example, if you look at the test sheet, and you compare the 50mph time with the 70mph time you get 5.1s, not the 6 seconds they claim.

    The passing interval measure includes transition time between steady speed and acceleration.
  • fgbraultfgbrault Member Posts: 1
    I think the Car & Driver numbers for the TDI are what they got in their test and not a mistake.

    Two thoughts. The TDI was tested with the automatic DSG transmission. I think when passing tests are done they are in auto mode with the transmission downshifting. When testing a car with a manual transmission they use top gear with no downshifting and the time is much, much slower than if they had tested an automatic.

    Also, the time from from one MPH to another MPH in the acceleration tests from a stop will be less. For example the differential from 50 to 70 MPH from the 0-50 and 0-70 tests will be less than for the 50-70 MPH passing test, even for a automatic, as you start from a steady 50MPH, rather than being already accelerating.

    I think on the passing times you should compare the TDI only with other tested cars that had automatic.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Passing time is measured in the same gears through the interval (50 – 70) as the vehicle would be in during an all out acceleration run. It doesn’t matter whether it is a stick or an auto the downshift is made to the optimal gear. The difference in time is simply the transition time between steady speed and all out acceleration.

    Passing times have always been a measure of the quickest pass possible, else it would make no sense to do the measurement. If it's a stick or tiptronic you would gear down in anticipation of passing and punch it. Without a shiftable auto you would just punch it.

    The clock is started when the engine is throttled up. It takes time for the turbo and fuel system to ramp up, even a gasser w/o turbo. Extreme engines are built to have very little transition time - TDIs not so much. ;)
  • gfr1gfr1 Member Posts: 55
    siberia -- Test results, such as "50 to 70" are dictated by the tester, but generally specified. If you read the test parameters, you will likely find the procedures of the test. And, "fgbreult" is correct and you -- in-correct. That particular speed test is normally done from top gear steady speed cruise, with no manipulation of clutch/transmission allowed. If you have an auto trans., it will normally downshift. If you have a manual, it is staying in the top gear, unless it has an overdrive drop-down and I don't think there are any of those around these days. That's why this test with a manual is always much slower accelerating than a auto. -- gfr
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    You are correct. Thank you for the correction:

    http://www.caranddriver.com:80/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/performance_fi- les_tested_by_c_d/how_does_c_d_test_cars_feature+t-acceleration_and_braking+page- -2.html

    We also perform two acceleration tests, from 30 to 50 mph and from 50 to 70, in a vehicle's highest gear. In vehicles with manual transmissions, this test measures how well a car's gearing matches the torque curve of its engine. With automatics, the test begins in top gear and then the car downshifts automatically under hard acceleration. This provides information about transmission responsiveness and actual passing times, but any comparison of results between manuals and automatics is meaningless.

    Just one more in a life-long series of embarrassments. :blush:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Just one more in a life-long series of embarrassments"...

    FAR better than pressing an untenable position !! It of course does wonders for the credibility !! So for my .02 cents, I salute you. :shades:

    My own take is an article like this should be required reading to at least be able to judge the significance of the tests AND probably more importantly its application in folks' own driving needs/styles/etc., etc., etc.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In my driving experience the 30-50 and 50-70 MPH times are much more important than 0-60 MPH. Accelerating to get past a big truck or slow car is a daily occurrence on our Interstate highways. I cannot remember the last time I accelerated from 0-60 MPH. These are both areas the diesel engines have it over most gas engines. Especially little 4 cylinder gassers.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have never seen the real life "PRACTICAL" passing measurement: 10-12 seconds in any car magazine!!!

    Most folks do this as a matter of real life driving, but if you are wondering what I am talking about it is a cluelessness that can get you killed in the worst case or keep you unconscienously fear full.

    So let me ask the question how long does it take one to normally pass another vehicle going in the same direction. (ON a two lane road with YOU going in the opposite directions lane of travel-under "ideal conditions" ) AND someone coming @ YOU?
  • beetee3beetee3 Member Posts: 2
    I just heard that the 2010 Jetta is getting a body redesign. Anyone have any idea of what the changes are or where the new model can be seen.

    Thanks
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    This link should be clear (as mud)!?

    link title
  • mike91326mike91326 Member Posts: 251
    I'm thinking of getting a 2009 Jetta TDI and I wanted to know what the difference is between the Jetta TDI and Jetta TDI Loyal Edition? It looks like there's only about a $150 difference between the two.
  • mike91326mike91326 Member Posts: 251
    When do you think VW will bring out the 2010's?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Judging by a few made dates on the door posts, they are made the June before the next model year. So the 2010 MYproduction starts in June 2009. What drives the gate keepers is anybody's guess.

    The differences between the loyal and the regular can be searched in www.edmunds.com.

    I remember that I thought it was a good deal, if you wanted all the extra stuff the loyal came with; that would cost more if you had to option it out on the standard. As I remember the loyal came in 1 max 2 colors. Again just fine if you happened to like those color choices.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Mike, it seems that the Loyal Edition is pretty much the same as the regular TDI except for this.....

    "The Jetta TDI sedan is equipped similar to the SEL sedan, but comes with 16-inch alloy wheels and doesn't have a sunroof. A special edition known as the TDI Loyal adds premium speakers."

    There must be more, but that's all I can find on Edmonds.
    For the fancy name I would expect some options a little more obvious, but as you say, the money to 'upgrade' is not much more either so perhaps, that's all you get for being "Loyal"
    If it is a 'special color, it might be "Candy White" a subtle change from Campanella White, which to me looks more like 'Refrigerator White'. I have seen the 2 colors side by side.
    The Candy White is a much nicer, warmer white, kind of 'creamy'.
    With a beige interior, and sunroof, it looks light and beautiful inside.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Looks like VW has figured out that the Multifunction Steering Wheel controls needed to be made standard on the new 2010 Wagon.
    That is going to PO a lot of 2009 buyers that miss that feature.

    The new design of the 2010 steering wheel function buttons look a lot better than the old phone push buttons that VW has been using for the past few years.

    But I think a well ecquiped 2006 TDI with the "Package 2" options still blows the new model away.
  • rv65rv65 Member Posts: 1,076
    There will be a new touch screen radio for the 2010 model year called the Premium VIII. This new radio will support the MDI which allows for full iPod or USB integration. You can't use the USB cable for iPod playback. You must use a special MDI iPod cable in order to playback an iPod. The touch screen radio looks like the RNS-510 but has no HDD or DVD playback. It does have a 6 MP3/CD/WMA changer though. Not the best display resolution wise but it's adequate. Hope this helps.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Unless you are buying used I expect you will not find a Loyal Edition. It was a limited run at the introduction of the 09 TDI. Loyal Edition had an amp under the seat which is not present or available on current 09's, it also had a few other minor differences.
  • dfciiidfciii Member Posts: 12
    The EPA changed the ratings around. I just bought a brand new 2009 VW Jetta TDI 2 days ago and it is rated for 40 highway and on the brand new engine with less than 300 miles I have been averaging 45MPG. The ratings are so far off that it stinks. The car once it is broke in will easily get 50+MPG. The only things that makes me suspicious of this new clean diesel is that today my car went to the shop. The cooling fan relay is faulty, and now I am without my car for almost 4 days to have them fix it. IT IS ONLY 2 DAYS OLD!!! Already having trouble, which makes me wonder about their built in mexico quality.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well the good/bad news is better now (under warranty) than later (NOT). The old warranty of 4 years 50,000 miles I considered meager at the time. Your 2009 warranty is Toyota/Honda like @ 3 years and 36,000 miles.
  • dfciiidfciii Member Posts: 12
    Yes, I totally agree with you, but since it was new technology i decided to buy the 100,000 mile warranty, and now I am glad i did. The one I bought covers everything 100% so I can at least have some peace of mind.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well the technology that is the most untested (120,000 miles warranty by Fed law) is the new 50 state emissions system. On two so called problematic oems and products that I have personally considered I am batting 100% (no issues) during the length of the warranty miles and terms. One I did buy (2001 Corvette Z06) and one I did not buy 2003 VW Jetta. I have asked almost everyone I know involved with the 2009 Jettas (vendors,owners, folks that know folks..... three dealers even) and outside of the "normal new car" adjustment stuff, this seems to have a better ratio than products that have come before.
  • dfciiidfciii Member Posts: 12
    Yeah, no other car company that sells in America can claim the clean diesel technology that VW has come up with. It doesnt take Urea like MB, BMW, and many other luxury models, and it does not require dealers to service the particulate filter like some other brands. It seems like a win win situation, and that is why I bought one. I just wish it would not have broken so soon, as that lets a 27000 dollar distaste in my mouth about VW. Overall, I love it though.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes I hear you. It is no comfort I am sure to be the statistical anomoly.

    It would seem that with EVERY oem, sometimes it is a game of dodging the known and unknown "bullets".

    Not to get too far afield from the topic, but I see that side by side with a 2004 Honda Civic. It was next to the last (05) MY. So in theory,not the best of that gen but certainly not the worst. Years later hindsight(actually following Edmunds.com Civic threads) tells me I dodged HUGE bullets by not getting the 2006 MY, as it had HUGE rear tire wear issues and replacement of major/minor suspension parts, to correct. In a huge percentage of "hard" cases, it is still not corrected and I would assume NOT correctable.

    Now I am VERY happy with the 2004 Civic and it has literally been FLAWLESS with 86,000 miles. BUT... in an A/B comparison, I have had to have 3 alignments to non being needed in the VW @ 118,000 miles. Tires shot @ 74,300 miles vs 112,300 in the VW, etc. Honda Civic pads and rotors a known weakness....
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Hi dfciii, welcome to the club! My check engine light came on after 70 miles when I got my car home from the dealership, turns out it was a fuel pump relay that wasn't seated properly. I agree, building in Mexico may not have been the best choice.

    Over 17,000 miles later and no further issues with mine, I hope you will be as fortunate. I agree with ruking, at least it will be covered under warranty, although it still doesn't help the feeling that you may have made a bad purchase.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    If you check the EPA ratings you will find that the TDI's are the only vehicles that are getting 10% or higher mpgs than posted.
    SO what's going on with the EPA?

    I hate to sound like it's a conspiricy to make the Diesels sound as bad as possible, but I think that might be a big part of it. The EPA has been a toothless tiger that is mired in politics. It wouldn't surprise me if some day we find out just how much of what goes on there, is fudged and jiggled to make certain vehicles seem to get better mpg's than they really do.

    Check this site and you will see real mpgs from real owners....take off the worst and discount the best owner posting, then you will find that the average mpgs are still well above the EPA on the TDI's.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

    So get the relay replaced and enjoy the all round, best for the money, fuel efficent car on the road today.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A few of us have debated that subject extensively. The bottom line is the EPA tries to make one test fit all technologies and it is not possible. The current tests implemented in 2008 seem to be optimized for accuracy with the hybrids. The old test gave them totally unrealistic ratings. However the old test was pretty accurate for the diesels from VW. Diesel is hardly the fuel of choice in Washington, so it is not surprising that they would have tests that favor what they would like to shove onto the public. It would not be so bad if the error was not so glaring. With the MB diesel SUVs the difference is close to 20% from reality. The only bright side is people are pleasantly surprised when they get much better mileage than they expected.

    I am watching to see how the EPA tests the Plug in Hybrids and EVs. See if their one size fits all works for them. IMO they are a bunch of lazy civil servants sucking US dry.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Don't forget that EPA rating also determines the amount of available tax credit :blush:
  • dfciiidfciii Member Posts: 12
    Longo2, you could not be any more correct than you are. The EPA is secretly dealing better cards to American car companies who pay them off to give their gas hog trucks better ratings than anyone can hope to achieve. I had a 2007 Chevy Silverado 1500LT Crewcab, with the 4.8L V8, rated at 19 highway, and i barely got 15. Then I buy this 2009 Jetta, and almost like magic it is rated 40 highway and I run 45 combined average on the first tank. If every car in America got this good of mileage, the oil companies would stand to loose billions and would shreak to the government for handouts. The government is only looking out for American companies no matter how bad their product is, and does not support the foreign reliable brands like subaru, vw, honda, and toyota, to name a few. IT IS ONE BIG CONSPIRACY.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    If every car in America got this good of mileage, the oil companies would stand to loose billions and would shreak to the government for handouts.

    Oil companies would only loose a drop in the bucket compared to the lost revenue to Federal and State Governments from lost gas taxes. So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways? The Saudi’s and the oil companies, Federal and State Government. Follow the money, it’s not a difficult trail, bread crumbs all over the place.

    Our government talks a good line of oil independence and conservation, but it’s the last thing they want you to do because it hurts the bottom line.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Yes I have argued that point a lot with the Hybrid huggers around here. The Jetta TDI is more of an improvement over the gas version than the Prius over say a Corolla or Matrix. Yet the Jetta gets a paltry $1300 tax credit and the Prius $3100. And the Prius was based on the old test that claims 60 MPG in the city. What a joke the EPA is. And a real detriment to getting vehicles on the road that will significantly cut our use of fossil fuel. Then maybe the powers do not want to cut the usage.

    The reality is Jetta TDI owners on average are getting 40% improvement in MPG over the standard 2.5L gas engine sold in the Jetta. Many are getting over 50% improvement.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways?

    You have hit at the heart of the problem. The gas tax in CA is over double what the oil companies make on a gallon of gas. The Government has no investment in the production and only use a fraction of the revenue to maintain roads. You are so right. The tax and spenders do not want US to get better mileage. At least till they figure out how to tax by the mile.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If there is anybody that needs/wants to verify/prove this for themselves, the formula is pretty straight forward, albeit a tad (actually a LOT) convoluted.

    Just go to the Motor fuel excise tax link title (your) state's line item entry of taxation for diesel and RUG/PUG /(divided by the mpg) and that will give you taxation in cents per mile driven. The convolution portion is that you have to back out the (normal) state sales tax (and/or exceptions, additions, deletions, modifiers....) and add it to the per gal taxation to get the "total" taxation.

    So for example, the VW (2003) is the most straight forward, ;) since it has RUG 2.0 @ 25 mpg combine, PUG 1.8T @ 25 mpg combine, D2 1.9T @ 49 mpg combine: models.

    (Uncle Sam) Fed gets 24.3 RUG/PUG , 24.4 D2, and 13.1 gasohol

    Now CA (for example and not to pick on one state) has the interesting 3 cup monte in that the tax (as of 01/2008) was .18 cents per gal for 1. gasoline, 2. D2 and 3. gasohol.

    CA SST here is up to 9.75 % So PER GAL, RUGPUG .227/.247, D2 .20

    So for example corner store pricing per gal RUG 2.75,RUG 2.95, D2 2.49

    So I hope folks eyes aren't getting glazed over.

    TAXATION ONLY % of sales price
    RUG 27.9%
    PUG 26.5%
    D2 30.14%

    RUG .65 per gal/25 mpg=.026 per mile driven
    PUG .67 per gal/25 mpg=.0268 per mile driven .
    D2 .624 per gal/49 mpg= .01273 per mile driven.

    So
    RUG taxation is 104% higher than diesel per mile driven
    PUG taxation is 110.5% higher than diesel per mile driven

    So the bad news? D2 is already too high !!!! .... but you all already knew that !!!

    So any of you CPA types who have fuel stations as clients can chime in here for the current 411.

    So keep in mind a "cracker jack" (multiple) station operator might make .10-.12 cents per gal or 4-5% of the sales price (per gal). So as you can see, the GOVERNMENTS make EASILY 5 x that !!??
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    "So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways? The Saudis and the oil companies, Federal and State Government. Follow the money, it’s not a difficult trail, bread crumbs all over the place."

    I think if you follow the biggest trail of crumbs it would lead you to another culprit in this scam...the Big Three (now the Big One)
    If they actually built a great little car that delivered outstanding mpg's in the 60's and 70's who would ever trade it off?

    No, the car companies have been lying to the public and the politicians for years about mpg's, and - by proxy - the paid Car Hacks that wouldn't mention the VW Jetta TDI mpg if they had a dip stick shoved up their nose.

    Good mpg's give the car company CEO's nightmares as they squirm around with lame excuses every time the subject comes up.
    They don't want to build them, and have a legal and PR dept. out front to filibuster anyone who tries to make them provide an honest plan to solve the consumers concerns.

    Chrysler and GM CEO's came up with the bright idea that 2 new models would save their companies and outrageous bonuses.. resurrecting the Dodge Charger and the Camero!

    Now, it seems their newest scam/plan is to roll out a high tech, high price, high maintenance electric, that only the Hollywood Celebrities in California can afford, then they can point to another myth of their own creation....."see, we told you, no one wants to buy one!

    (BTW those grinning Celebrities are probably driving PR dept. Freebees)

    jkinzel rightly pins the tail on the Govt., and the Oil Companies, but the U.S. car builders are just as guilty, sneaky, and cunning, in keeping the brainwashed public driving The Guzzlers.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It does make you wonder why only the German car makers are able to jump through the CARB hoops to offer diesel vehicles to the US customers. There are now 6 German SUVs available that are full size and capable of about 30 MPG out on the highway. That is more than 30% better than any full size hybrid SUV on the road in the USA.

    The diesel SUVs are also very good off road where the hybrids are not rated for off-road use. Makes you wonder what good they are except for soccer mom's. And towing is practically a no no for most hybrids.

    My hat's off to German engineering. Best in the world it would seem.
  • relprelp Member Posts: 3
    I bought my TDI Jetta 6spdm about 9 months ago, no mech. or elec. problems so far with 21k+ on the odo. I drive 85% highway at about 65mph average. I dont take off abruptly and I coast when ever I can ( when safe). I believe the car should be close to "broken in". As of now I get around 45 mpg driving under the conditions mentioned. So EPA Highway ratings on this car are way off (for whatever reason). City ratings are pretty close (for me) at 38 mpg.

    I'm pretty happy with the car and would reccomend it to freinds and family ( and weirdos on internet forums :P ). Just watch out for nasty price gougers at dealerships.
  • littlerhodylittlerhody Member Posts: 22
    I thought I was putting on the miles at 19K but you have me beat. I also have the 6spdm. Dealers in these parts (RI) have a few TDI's on the lot. A friend just bought an auto (or DSG) with Bluetooth and sunroof for 22,700. A good deal I think. I am also getting the mileage you are. And now that diesel is less than regular, who is the smart one now?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    So EPA Highway ratings on this car are way off (for whatever reason). City ratings are pretty close (for me) at 38 mpg

    Aren't the ratings for this car around 29/40? If so why do you say the hwy rating is "way off" while you say the city rating is "pretty close" at 38mpg even though it is farther from the EPA estimate than your hwy mpg?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The EPA ratings are 29 city /40 higway combined 33 mpg. (2009 right off the sticker)

    The normal print (12 pt) range of:

    24 to 34 mpg city,

    33-47 mpg highway

    As another data point. DSG break in mpg ranges from 39 (city) to 45 mpg, for a range of 34.5% to 12.5% better.

    My own take (after app 125,000 TDI miles) is once you understand how the turbo diesel is different (and similar also) and make the subtle applications/ changes, you can easily get far worse or far better mpg. Far worse however is usually far better than a like model gasser !!!

    So for example on a 03 TDI 5 sp manual with EPA of 42/49 mpg, the range has been from 44 to 62 mpg. The absolute worse was (predictably city) 44 mpg with 300 miles of stop and go in 100 plus degrees temperatures, A/C blasting the whole time, driving in and around the Las Vegas Nevada strip/dowtown areas. Absolutely brutal from the car's perspective.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    I was looking at http://www.clean-diesel.org/pump_survey.html to see the percentages of pumps dispensing ULSD vs LSD, and according to this (not sure how accurate it is) but it says that .45% of pumps dispensing ULSD do not meet the standard. To put it into perspective, this is about 1 of every 225 stations, but if one were to fill up at this one station, what could the consequences be? If you were to fill up with LSD or bad ULSD, would there be a way to tell by driving the car?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The critical issue is for the DPF (.ie. ,2009 Jetta). So if it is a question or when in doubt, ASK! Most EVERY state I have been to (14 of late-since the Oct 2006 cut over from LSD to ULSD) and foreign country Van, BC, at best, are poorly , marked. However it is also widely known most states are in compliance, as your 1/225 station is really saying. I would normally only question if I was fueling in an out of the beaten path, industrial part of town or farming community. Larger truck stops dispense ULSD. One of the reasons for such widespread "compliance" is D2 is fungible so it makes no sense to segregate. It is also a felony to mix em and sell em and federal sentences are not discounted !! ;) Even red dye diesel is now far along the requirement to be ULSD and is where you increase the chances of getting LSD (up to 500 ppm). I hope this answer helps.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Thanks, that helps quite a bit. Basically for me, the places I'm filling up I should have no issues then, since I've been filling up at major stations around Ohio, PA.

    If I did have a bad tank of fuel, would it be enough to permanently damage the engine, or would it have to be repeated use? Just curious what would happen with LSD in this vehicle (not that I am going to try it!).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You question can really be answered in multiple ways.

    Upshot

    1. Late model diesels have been designed to run on ULSD (15 ppm to 5 ppm) for a lot of years. In its infinite wisdom, the emissions folks, EPA, CARB, etc. until recently (Oct 2006) have seen fit to allow up to 500 ppm D2 .

    Tractor trailer to passenger diesels 49 state LSD was 500 ppm and CA LSD was reported to be 140 ppm. So even the LSD's are/were anywhere from 33x to 9.3 x worse for the equipment than it had to be.

    My take is they should have gone to ULSD when they switched to UN leaded RUG to PUG in the late 70's early 80's.

    The emissions folks, still allow up to 5000 ppm bunker oil and that is a travesty.

    Before the wide spread availability of ULSD, I have watched many TB/WP changes. portions of the procedure exposes the EGR and intact manifolds This of course allowed one to see the cumulative effect of the combination of drivers style and LSD USE. By and large of the procedures, I witnessed all had moderate to heavy "sludging."

    So while the engines can tolerate LSD they were NEVER designed for it. So early on I was able to meet and talk with some of the TDI gurus. They made specific suggestions on how to drive the TDI to eliminate to lessen "sludging.

    DPF equipped TDIs i.e., 2009 WILL cause damage.and LSD is specifically prohibited.
  • inlarryinlarry Member Posts: 13
    Hey folks, I'm driving a 2005 (previous body) TDI with about 67000 miles. I've noticed recently that my exhaust under slightly rough to hard excelleration ranges from somewhat "smokey" to "i'm driving a 1980 Peterbilt". How normal is this?

    I've noticed soot before, but usually only under a load (uphill or such) under hard excelleration. I now notice it even accelerating from 55-60 in 5th.

    Suggestions?

    Also, can anyone give me a *definite* answer on whether the timing belt on this model, with the BEW, is at 85000, or 100,000? The manual lists a timing belt change at *both*.
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