Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Considering that the SW, costs a premium price over the Sedan, I think VW dropped the ball on this one.
To retro a Jetta Steering Wheel with the audio controls onto a SW would probably involve a different wiring harness right to the computer as those buttons are also linked to the muti function trip display as well as the bluetooth conections.
I know it sucks that VW didn't think SW owners would want those controls, but it might be easier to install a new radio that uses a hand held remote to tune and volume.
When I changed the head unit in my Honda Odyssey I lost the steering wheel controls as well, but the little remote that sits in a cup holder runs all the functions just as well, including 'power off and on'.
But still...... :mad:
I've recently become interested in the new tdi engines that vw is putting in some of it's new models.
I was on car and driver earlier, and I noticed that the 'passing acceleration' for the tdi was astonishingly quick.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/126293/1711316/version/1/file/2009+- Volkswagen+Jetta+TDI.pdf
"50-70 6 seconds"
Now, I understand diesels enjoy an advantage at highway speeds due to the amount of torque they produce at lower rpms. However, this number is faster than a honda fit, gti, a mini cooper s, miata, etc virtually every thing else on my shopping list (in terms of passing power).
While I believe it would be reasonibly fast, certainly faster than the honda fit (which did the same test in ~12 seconds), I find it very hard to believe that it is faster than the others. I believe they must have gotten the math wrong. For example, if you look at the test sheet, and you compare the 50mph time with the 70mph time you get 5.1s, not the 6 seconds they claim.
Does anyone have any other sources that provide a 40-70 ish number?
A Jetta TDI can pass a naturally aspirated V8 if the Jetta driver puts the pedal to the floor and the V8 driver doesn't care to contest the matter. Or if the V8 is powered car is relatively heavy.
Are you really basing your vehicle-choice on this type of stastistic?
Example, I *really* like the fact that VW automaticlly locks all the doors once you are moving. But my Subaru Baja does not do this and I end up driving around with the doors unlocked. Do I like the Subaru less than the VW.... no!
I like the 56MPG of my TDI and the accellaration of the turbocharged subaru engine.
The VW handles FAR better than Subaru : VW rides better than VW.
VW radio and power-windows work with key turned off : Subaru does not do this.
VW can lower/raise all windows FROM OUTSIDE CAR : Subaru does not do this
Subaru has AWD and excells in the snow : VW is adequate in the snow with ESP, ADR and EDL.
VW is more refined with featuers not found in other vehicles. This is one reason we have 3 VWs in the family.
If Subaru offered the Baja as a Diesel, I would own one in a hearbeat... but they dont.
Every vehicle has its up/down side and it is often difficult to make a choice when they are all considerd. Test drive what you want and chose what you personally like. Good Luck.
The passing interval measure includes transition time between steady speed and acceleration.
Two thoughts. The TDI was tested with the automatic DSG transmission. I think when passing tests are done they are in auto mode with the transmission downshifting. When testing a car with a manual transmission they use top gear with no downshifting and the time is much, much slower than if they had tested an automatic.
Also, the time from from one MPH to another MPH in the acceleration tests from a stop will be less. For example the differential from 50 to 70 MPH from the 0-50 and 0-70 tests will be less than for the 50-70 MPH passing test, even for a automatic, as you start from a steady 50MPH, rather than being already accelerating.
I think on the passing times you should compare the TDI only with other tested cars that had automatic.
Passing times have always been a measure of the quickest pass possible, else it would make no sense to do the measurement. If it's a stick or tiptronic you would gear down in anticipation of passing and punch it. Without a shiftable auto you would just punch it.
The clock is started when the engine is throttled up. It takes time for the turbo and fuel system to ramp up, even a gasser w/o turbo. Extreme engines are built to have very little transition time - TDIs not so much.
http://www.caranddriver.com:80/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/performance_fi- les_tested_by_c_d/how_does_c_d_test_cars_feature+t-acceleration_and_braking+page- -2.html
We also perform two acceleration tests, from 30 to 50 mph and from 50 to 70, in a vehicle's highest gear. In vehicles with manual transmissions, this test measures how well a car's gearing matches the torque curve of its engine. With automatics, the test begins in top gear and then the car downshifts automatically under hard acceleration. This provides information about transmission responsiveness and actual passing times, but any comparison of results between manuals and automatics is meaningless.
Just one more in a life-long series of embarrassments.
FAR better than pressing an untenable position !! It of course does wonders for the credibility !! So for my .02 cents, I salute you. :shades:
My own take is an article like this should be required reading to at least be able to judge the significance of the tests AND probably more importantly its application in folks' own driving needs/styles/etc., etc., etc.
Most folks do this as a matter of real life driving, but if you are wondering what I am talking about it is a cluelessness that can get you killed in the worst case or keep you unconscienously fear full.
So let me ask the question how long does it take one to normally pass another vehicle going in the same direction. (ON a two lane road with YOU going in the opposite directions lane of travel-under "ideal conditions" ) AND someone coming @ YOU?
Thanks
link title
The differences between the loyal and the regular can be searched in www.edmunds.com.
I remember that I thought it was a good deal, if you wanted all the extra stuff the loyal came with; that would cost more if you had to option it out on the standard. As I remember the loyal came in 1 max 2 colors. Again just fine if you happened to like those color choices.
"The Jetta TDI sedan is equipped similar to the SEL sedan, but comes with 16-inch alloy wheels and doesn't have a sunroof. A special edition known as the TDI Loyal adds premium speakers."
There must be more, but that's all I can find on Edmonds.
For the fancy name I would expect some options a little more obvious, but as you say, the money to 'upgrade' is not much more either so perhaps, that's all you get for being "Loyal"
If it is a 'special color, it might be "Candy White" a subtle change from Campanella White, which to me looks more like 'Refrigerator White'. I have seen the 2 colors side by side.
The Candy White is a much nicer, warmer white, kind of 'creamy'.
With a beige interior, and sunroof, it looks light and beautiful inside.
That is going to PO a lot of 2009 buyers that miss that feature.
The new design of the 2010 steering wheel function buttons look a lot better than the old phone push buttons that VW has been using for the past few years.
But I think a well ecquiped 2006 TDI with the "Package 2" options still blows the new model away.
It would seem that with EVERY oem, sometimes it is a game of dodging the known and unknown "bullets".
Not to get too far afield from the topic, but I see that side by side with a 2004 Honda Civic. It was next to the last (05) MY. So in theory,not the best of that gen but certainly not the worst. Years later hindsight(actually following Edmunds.com Civic threads) tells me I dodged HUGE bullets by not getting the 2006 MY, as it had HUGE rear tire wear issues and replacement of major/minor suspension parts, to correct. In a huge percentage of "hard" cases, it is still not corrected and I would assume NOT correctable.
Now I am VERY happy with the 2004 Civic and it has literally been FLAWLESS with 86,000 miles. BUT... in an A/B comparison, I have had to have 3 alignments to non being needed in the VW @ 118,000 miles. Tires shot @ 74,300 miles vs 112,300 in the VW, etc. Honda Civic pads and rotors a known weakness....
Over 17,000 miles later and no further issues with mine, I hope you will be as fortunate. I agree with ruking, at least it will be covered under warranty, although it still doesn't help the feeling that you may have made a bad purchase.
SO what's going on with the EPA?
I hate to sound like it's a conspiricy to make the Diesels sound as bad as possible, but I think that might be a big part of it. The EPA has been a toothless tiger that is mired in politics. It wouldn't surprise me if some day we find out just how much of what goes on there, is fudged and jiggled to make certain vehicles seem to get better mpg's than they really do.
Check this site and you will see real mpgs from real owners....take off the worst and discount the best owner posting, then you will find that the average mpgs are still well above the EPA on the TDI's.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
So get the relay replaced and enjoy the all round, best for the money, fuel efficent car on the road today.
I am watching to see how the EPA tests the Plug in Hybrids and EVs. See if their one size fits all works for them. IMO they are a bunch of lazy civil servants sucking US dry.
Oil companies would only loose a drop in the bucket compared to the lost revenue to Federal and State Governments from lost gas taxes. So who benefits most from keeping diesel passenger cars off US highways? The Saudi’s and the oil companies, Federal and State Government. Follow the money, it’s not a difficult trail, bread crumbs all over the place.
Our government talks a good line of oil independence and conservation, but it’s the last thing they want you to do because it hurts the bottom line.
The reality is Jetta TDI owners on average are getting 40% improvement in MPG over the standard 2.5L gas engine sold in the Jetta. Many are getting over 50% improvement.
You have hit at the heart of the problem. The gas tax in CA is over double what the oil companies make on a gallon of gas. The Government has no investment in the production and only use a fraction of the revenue to maintain roads. You are so right. The tax and spenders do not want US to get better mileage. At least till they figure out how to tax by the mile.
Just go to the Motor fuel excise tax link title (your) state's line item entry of taxation for diesel and RUG/PUG /(divided by the mpg) and that will give you taxation in cents per mile driven. The convolution portion is that you have to back out the (normal) state sales tax (and/or exceptions, additions, deletions, modifiers....) and add it to the per gal taxation to get the "total" taxation.
So for example, the VW (2003) is the most straight forward, since it has RUG 2.0 @ 25 mpg combine, PUG 1.8T @ 25 mpg combine, D2 1.9T @ 49 mpg combine: models.
(Uncle Sam) Fed gets 24.3 RUG/PUG , 24.4 D2, and 13.1 gasohol
Now CA (for example and not to pick on one state) has the interesting 3 cup monte in that the tax (as of 01/2008) was .18 cents per gal for 1. gasoline, 2. D2 and 3. gasohol.
CA SST here is up to 9.75 % So PER GAL, RUGPUG .227/.247, D2 .20
So for example corner store pricing per gal RUG 2.75,RUG 2.95, D2 2.49
So I hope folks eyes aren't getting glazed over.
TAXATION ONLY % of sales price
RUG 27.9%
PUG 26.5%
D2 30.14%
RUG .65 per gal/25 mpg=.026 per mile driven
PUG .67 per gal/25 mpg=.0268 per mile driven .
D2 .624 per gal/49 mpg= .01273 per mile driven.
So
RUG taxation is 104% higher than diesel per mile driven
PUG taxation is 110.5% higher than diesel per mile driven
So the bad news? D2 is already too high !!!! .... but you all already knew that !!!
So any of you CPA types who have fuel stations as clients can chime in here for the current 411.
So keep in mind a "cracker jack" (multiple) station operator might make .10-.12 cents per gal or 4-5% of the sales price (per gal). So as you can see, the GOVERNMENTS make EASILY 5 x that !!??
I think if you follow the biggest trail of crumbs it would lead you to another culprit in this scam...the Big Three (now the Big One)
If they actually built a great little car that delivered outstanding mpg's in the 60's and 70's who would ever trade it off?
No, the car companies have been lying to the public and the politicians for years about mpg's, and - by proxy - the paid Car Hacks that wouldn't mention the VW Jetta TDI mpg if they had a dip stick shoved up their nose.
Good mpg's give the car company CEO's nightmares as they squirm around with lame excuses every time the subject comes up.
They don't want to build them, and have a legal and PR dept. out front to filibuster anyone who tries to make them provide an honest plan to solve the consumers concerns.
Chrysler and GM CEO's came up with the bright idea that 2 new models would save their companies and outrageous bonuses.. resurrecting the Dodge Charger and the Camero!
Now, it seems their newest scam/plan is to roll out a high tech, high price, high maintenance electric, that only the Hollywood Celebrities in California can afford, then they can point to another myth of their own creation....."see, we told you, no one wants to buy one!
(BTW those grinning Celebrities are probably driving PR dept. Freebees)
jkinzel rightly pins the tail on the Govt., and the Oil Companies, but the U.S. car builders are just as guilty, sneaky, and cunning, in keeping the brainwashed public driving The Guzzlers.
The diesel SUVs are also very good off road where the hybrids are not rated for off-road use. Makes you wonder what good they are except for soccer mom's. And towing is practically a no no for most hybrids.
My hat's off to German engineering. Best in the world it would seem.
I'm pretty happy with the car and would reccomend it to freinds and family ( and weirdos on internet forums :P ). Just watch out for nasty price gougers at dealerships.
Aren't the ratings for this car around 29/40? If so why do you say the hwy rating is "way off" while you say the city rating is "pretty close" at 38mpg even though it is farther from the EPA estimate than your hwy mpg?
The normal print (12 pt) range of:
24 to 34 mpg city,
33-47 mpg highway
As another data point. DSG break in mpg ranges from 39 (city) to 45 mpg, for a range of 34.5% to 12.5% better.
My own take (after app 125,000 TDI miles) is once you understand how the turbo diesel is different (and similar also) and make the subtle applications/ changes, you can easily get far worse or far better mpg. Far worse however is usually far better than a like model gasser !!!
So for example on a 03 TDI 5 sp manual with EPA of 42/49 mpg, the range has been from 44 to 62 mpg. The absolute worse was (predictably city) 44 mpg with 300 miles of stop and go in 100 plus degrees temperatures, A/C blasting the whole time, driving in and around the Las Vegas Nevada strip/dowtown areas. Absolutely brutal from the car's perspective.
If I did have a bad tank of fuel, would it be enough to permanently damage the engine, or would it have to be repeated use? Just curious what would happen with LSD in this vehicle (not that I am going to try it!).
Upshot
1. Late model diesels have been designed to run on ULSD (15 ppm to 5 ppm) for a lot of years. In its infinite wisdom, the emissions folks, EPA, CARB, etc. until recently (Oct 2006) have seen fit to allow up to 500 ppm D2 .
Tractor trailer to passenger diesels 49 state LSD was 500 ppm and CA LSD was reported to be 140 ppm. So even the LSD's are/were anywhere from 33x to 9.3 x worse for the equipment than it had to be.
My take is they should have gone to ULSD when they switched to UN leaded RUG to PUG in the late 70's early 80's.
The emissions folks, still allow up to 5000 ppm bunker oil and that is a travesty.
Before the wide spread availability of ULSD, I have watched many TB/WP changes. portions of the procedure exposes the EGR and intact manifolds This of course allowed one to see the cumulative effect of the combination of drivers style and LSD USE. By and large of the procedures, I witnessed all had moderate to heavy "sludging."
So while the engines can tolerate LSD they were NEVER designed for it. So early on I was able to meet and talk with some of the TDI gurus. They made specific suggestions on how to drive the TDI to eliminate to lessen "sludging.
DPF equipped TDIs i.e., 2009 WILL cause damage.and LSD is specifically prohibited.
I've noticed soot before, but usually only under a load (uphill or such) under hard excelleration. I now notice it even accelerating from 55-60 in 5th.
Suggestions?
Also, can anyone give me a *definite* answer on whether the timing belt on this model, with the BEW, is at 85000, or 100,000? The manual lists a timing belt change at *both*.