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Comments
I don't think any dealer in right mind would sell a car for $ 1,200 below his cost!
You are right about the Fitzmall discounts, but they must be getting so popular that they have decided to grab a thousand more on each $ale now.
@s for not following up on it.
Still a little under the Invoice of $24,138 but the deal last month it was $3,500 under invoice.
Candy White
DSG
Steering wheel controls
PWR sunroof
Rubber mat package.
$20,626
invoice number VO71644
Same set up now, $22.321
Still better than your local VW and a good number to throw on the Sales managers desk when you get the song and dance ...
"Can't gettum, all sold out, no deals, take a number"
In fact the Montana VW Stealership in Great Falls is using what they call a "Side Sticker" a stip of B$ added to the MSRP that adds an extra $2,000!
You could have a new 09 delivered right to your door from Fitzmall, pay for the shipping and still save thousands.
Around Chicago the dealers tried that additional markup B$ and cars just sat. There is too much competition to get away with that for too long here but where there is one dealer for every 100 miles or so I can see where they would get greedy. But you know what? They sell em for as much as they can get and we try to buy as low as we can and we don't care if they are hurting either. So it all works out I guess.
I've had a two VWs(Kharmon Ghia and Fastback in the late 60s and early 70s) that had problem after problem but I was young and literally drove the $$$$ out of them. So much so that I really have to blame the problems on me and not the cars. In fact, they held up pretty good considering. I would not use any experience from that long ago in a buying decision today anyway.
Armstrong VW
I am actually a tad confused also. One of window tint's past advantages USED to be UV filtering capabilities. Supposedly, (VW's anyway) have come with UV filtering window glass. (I can tell this by way of modern polarizing prescription UV filtering corrective eye wear and clip on "polarizing" UV protection sunglasses.)
My take is tinting DRAMATICALLY reduces interior heat due to sunlight absorption. Tints also have come with metal reflective coatings. (further sun light reflection)
When you combine that with a white paint job, you (I) can run a fan speed or two LESS than like... but dark colored paint jobs.
I am now not sure what a double (glass), double(tint) (and with modern eyewear...double double) UV filtering really does. I do know it plays havoc with the GPS screen and I see polarizing "halo's"aka color spectrum divisions "rainbow" on the wind shield under a lot of conditions. I do have what they call "transition" lenses and they do not seem to turn as dark or as fast when I am driving (UV protected windows).
Regards,
Dale
I always thought it was one size fits all on the window tinting(as long as the car has A/C) and any extra tinting is done locally.
I know we are straying from TDI topic a bit but I guess this applies to Jetta TDIs as well.
Extra "tinting" in the South East is that a dark film in dfferent shade is applied to windows by independent tinting shops. Some dealers subcontract tinting (with a foil) to these shops if the customer wants it.
$28,000 (+) for a jetta sedan with no options except DSG?
The same car on Fitzmall would be $5,000 less even on a bad day.
That's enough cash difference to make you get a little creative on how you are going to get one parked on your driveway isn't it?
I don't think any dealer in right mind would sell a car for $ 1,200 below his cost!
Sorry so late to get back to you. It was $1,200 under invoice. VW had some dealer incentives for their larger dealers. I spoke with one in Columbus OH (biggest in mid-west they claim) and best they would do is invoice. Said they weren't willing to dip into the incentive money. Dealer in Philadelphia was $1,200 under invoice and had 25 or so in stock. The deal I worked on a six-speed manual with protection package was right around $21,300.
If they're making this change, doesn't that spell a problem since they've so proudly touted they're urea-free system so far?
He claimed it was to eke out more fuel economy but that doesn't seem rational, not to me at least.
Here's a few tid bits lifted off another post about the Jetta TDI changes from 09' to 2010............................................................................- ........
Color choices are the same except white gold replaces laser blue. Laser blue is no longer available.
Bluetooth with voice control is now standard
New instrument cluster and steering wheel
Steering wheel controls standard on the 2010 Wagon
New interior trim bits and seats
Touchscreen radio "premium 8 RCD-510" replaces non touchscreen radio "premium 7"
Gray interior no longer available
Door lock/unlock and side mirror controls moved.
Optional differences
MDI w/ iPod cable replaces iPod adapter option at same price
Navigation price reduced with elimination of MDI
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the reference here to 2006 this news might be 3/4 years in the making link title
R & T's take link title
MT's take link title
Can anyone who works for VW or at a VW dealer confirm or deny?
As far as 2010 Tdi with urea injection (a.k.a. AdBlue) the information from dealers is not always correct. Information from distributors is a bit more accurate as they have to plan marketing strategy for any new models that will be sold in each particular country. The correct information about future models is normally accurate from the manufacturer's R&D group. But even that may not translate into what will go into production and what will be sold. That is up to the management group of the factory and is normally confidential due to competition. I worked for over 10 years with R&D in Trollhattan, Sweden developing and testing new and future Saab models (before GM took over). We had cars that were being developed and tested (including a diesel and clutchless transmission). Not all of them ever went into production or sale.
AdBlue (manufactured by BASF Group in Germany) has following bulletin out:
The SCRT® - Selective Catalytic Reduction + Continuously Regenerating Trap - depends upon the use of AdBlue® for the selective catalytic reduction and upon regeneration of the filter in the CRT® to prevent large accumulations of soot and eventual filter blockage. Use of the incorrect reducing agent, poor vehicle maintenance, excessive engine smoke, oil consumption or high sulphur fuel can prevent the SCRT® system from operating satisfactorily.
AdBlue®
The industry standard AdBlue®, an aqueous solution of urea, is used as the reducing agent in the SCRT®. Without AdBlue®, the system will not function correctly and remove NOX from the exhaust gas.
Only AdBlue® and no other reducing agent should be used in the SCRT® system.
The AdBlue® level should be checked regularly and each time the vehicle is re-fuelled to ensure the tank does not run dry any time during vehicle operation.
NB. The vehicle will continue to operate without AdBlue® but the SCRT® will not function correctly and remove NOX from the exhaust gas. No damage will be caused in this situation.
The freezing point of AdBlue® is -11°C. In extreme cold environments it is possible the AdBlue® stored on the vehicle could freeze. Procedures to prevent this from happening should be taken as freezing could cause damage to the storage tank and will prevent the SCRT® system from functioning correctly.
Fuels
Use only diesel fuel with sulphur content less than 50 ppm and conforming to EN590
Do not use fuel additives other than those already incorporated in general commercial diesel fuel supplies.
Additionally the following biodiesel and water-diesel emulsion fuels are approved for use with SCRT® technology:
Biodiesel
Greenenergy Global Diesel, 5% biodiesel, 95% ULSD
Global Commodities UK Ltd, driveEco
Rix Biodiesel Ltd, Bioblend 5
Petroplus Marketing Ltd, Bio-plus
Water-fuel Emulsions
BP Aspira @ 10% demineralised water
Lubrizol PuriNOxTM @ 10% demineralised water
Engine Smoke
The level of smoke produced by the engine should not exceed the maximum limits set by the engine manufacturer.
In addition, AdBlue level is to be checked every other diesel fill tank as it consumes about 3 to 5% from the tank under the vehicle.
Not sure why VW would go this route when current Jetta Tdi system works fine.
But, one never knows! I also think Daimler Benz together with BASF hold patent on this technology and whoever would want to use it would have to pay hefty royalties. But, I am not sure about that - just my speculation.
What is AdBlue? (urea solution)
AdBlue is a high-purity, harmless, colorless, synthetically produced 32.5% solution of urea.
AdBlue is not a hazardous substance and has been placed in the lowest water hazard class 1. The high purity and uniform quality are guaranteed by DIN 70070.
What is AdBlue required for?
In the SCR system, AdBlue reduces toxic nitrogen oxides in the exhaust gases of diesel-engined commercial vehicles to water and elementary nitrogen (a natural constituent of the atmosphere).
How long can AdBlue be stored?
AdBlue decomposes over time in storage to form ammonium hydroxide and carbon monoxide; it then no longer fulfills the requirements of DIN 70070. Provided the maximum recommended storage temperature of 25 °C is maintained, AdBlue continues to meet the requirements of DIN 70070 for at least 12 months after production. Should this recommended storage temperature be exceeded, this period is reduced.
What is the refilling interval for AdBlue?
The AdBlue consumption corresponds to approximately 3-6% of that of the diesel fuel. The size of the tank selected for the vehicle determines the AdBlue refilling interval. As a general rule, AdBlue will need to be refilled at each or every other refueling.
Where can AdBlue be obtained at present and where will it be available in the future?
AdBlue is currently available from BASF sales partners.
What handling arrangements are required for AdBlue?
Trendsetting handling.
What does AdBlue cost?
The price for AdBlue varies according to packaging, container, delivery location and quantity purchased. Current prices are available from our distributors.
How can I store AdBlue at my facilities?
To prevent contaminants from impairing the quality and at the same time to avoid high testing costs, AdBlue should be handled only in storage and filling systems intended exclusively for AdBlue. BASF distributors will be pleased to provide more information.
Since AdBlue solidifies at -11°C and decomposes at an accelerated rate at temperatures above 25°C, storage and filling systems must be designed to assure of a temperature range of between 30 and -11°C.
® = registered Trademark of the Verband der Automobilindustrie
btw, there has been some misinformation here about California tinting laws posted here. folks can probably find the correct info via the California Vehicle Code & Cali state sites.
Also there seems to be a misunderstanding among some readers that invoice price equals dealer cost. It generally does not, and buyers have no way to know what is the dealer cost.
Dealer cost is literally "none of our business" here!
sincerely, a dirty-diesel owner
Well, in my opinion, it is our business. An informed buyer should know appx. dealer's cost so that he/she knows how much room there is for negotiating out of the door price with sales persons. If it would be "none of our business" why so many websites (like Edmunds, Consumer Union, etc). would go into publishing dealers' cost? I am lost here....
Admittedly the rules seem to be changing now about whose business is whose,
now that govt can set pay rate and invalidate private contracts arbitrarily.
As far as I used to know, there aren't any web sites which claim to publish dealer cost, and certainly not such esteemed sites as Edmunds or CU !
If any sites were to publish details of the dealership/mfger's private contracts, maybe there would be some civil legal recourse possible due to them somehow wrongly-obtaining & publishing such info? (How would private contract info be obtained legitimately?!)
If you know of a legit way to obtain info on private contracts like that, so we can best negotiate 2009/2010 Jetta TDI prices, probably lots of readers would like to know. (Actually many of us are probably lusting for Two-a-reg-2 TDI but I don't think Edmunds has a dedicated forum for those yet!
best regards...
By the way, dealership vs distributor prices are available to any insider in any car dealership and ditto for distributor vs manufacturer pricing. If I had such access or information I would not publish those on these pages for various legal reasons.
i hear you on the car-dealer-insider aspect - business-manager/beancounters at the dealership would know all that info.
It's gotta be very un-fun times for anyone working for or owning a car dealership, although it's probably worse to be seeking employment so thatone can then consider upgrading from 06 sedan TDI to 010 wagon TDI! or 2-a-reg TDI.
One consideration against upgrading from 06 to 010 TDI is that the basic chassis is not upgraded at all, aside from the wagon being available now, and the nifty new engine and 6-spd. And a few of the 06 features/options are not available on the 09/010? The big wins for me would be the wagon form-factor and the 6-spd stickshift..
I understand most any vehicle "invoice price" is both a fabricated number as well as good baseline number from which to subtract all the incentives/cashbacks/etc. And that the resulting # after all those subtractions from 'invoice price' can be a good target/comparison number for shoppers before they visit/contact dealers to see how close each dealer is willing to get for any particular vehicle.
"Be not the first by whom the new are tried, and not the last to lay the old aside"
Whoever said it, probably got seriously stung by "being the first" on a new one wheeled chariot.
Sometimes tho, the "First" can be pretty good, our 2007 Nissan Versa was the 'First' and now almost 3 years later, it's still without a recall or trip to the dealership.
The Jetta for all it's high cost of ownership is the same wheelbase as a Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Versa. So in all the reading from your links (thanks) here's where I get muddled with VW thinking..
"As you know by now, VW plans to do that in part by "Americanizing" the Passat and Jetta, which not only will be sized to closely match Toyota Camry/Honda Accord and Corolla/Civic, respectively, but will be priced in line with those Japanese-American models, as well."
My point ...they already are closly matched in size only the VW are more expensive.
If the Honda TDI Accord was allowed into North America, VW would be in deep Dog Poo.
I really can not speak for Nissan products.
..."If the Honda TDI Accord was allowed into North America, VW would be in deep Dog Poo. "...
Like VW shooting themselves in the foot on other issues, Honda is doing like wise on the diesel issue.
This was one of several headlines from 2007 when Honda had their TDI out on the road in New York, showing it off to Auto Writers and other interested Diesel lovers.
From the faint information I can find on 'Wahapped'.....
The EPA passed the engine for emmisions in the standard transmission set up, but the diesel with the a/t got failed.
Honda packed up their 2 diesel cars and went home, never to be heard from since. (or so gossip says)
On a 'Conspiracy Theory' note, imagine what that car would have done to all the company hype and sales of the newly minted and about to be released Honda Hybrid........
a 60 mpg Accord sized tire shredding diesel would have killed those wimpy hybrid sales deader than a doornail.
That's like 10F and 78F. Plus having to check level and add after each fill up or two. $200 every 7k!!! That's too much hassle and too much money. Where do you keep the extra Adblue to keep it from freezing in your car.....under your armpit? Or does the car have some special heater that would keep it warm(and run your battery down) while it's parked at the airport in January!
Smelly oily hands, hunting for D2, flucuating D2 prices and paying more up front are enough to go diesel....don't add all this other stuff.
So if you are going to introduce an "Accord" diesel for example, you really want as wide appeal as you can. I am swagging it is purely a numbers thang.
By way of explanation, I follow the manual transmission thread. There are sparse references to the passenger vehicle fleet 20% being manual (50.08 M), and total MY sales being @ 10%, each MY, ( with some claiming less than 10%).
While you have to give credit to Honda offering manual transmissions as part of the line up for almost 4 decades, it would seem logical they would want to sell as many diesels as possible, without exceptions like... it only comes with a manual.
Another might be they do not have a killer automatic transmission application, that showcases the diesel. As an on topic example, the 03 TDI Jetta automatic transmission (aka slush box) yielded (far) less mpg than the 5 speed manual transmission (which actually SHOULD have been a 6 spd manual transmission). The DSG or automatic "manual" transmission, aka computer aided dual clutch pack, sports -1 or -2 mpg off a 6 speed manual transmission.
In some respect I tend to agree with you, however, if I snoop around enough and ask the right people at the right places, I would think I could come up with the information.
Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book post what I assume are true invoice prices when you research a vehicle, so it’s not that the information is top secret. Then again?
If you were selling used cars and someone asked "before I make an offer I want you to tell me what you paid for the vehicle". Would you balk or say "oh well, it's your right to know so here it is". I don't think so.
Used cars are a good example. Try to find out what a dealer paid for a used car. They make thousands sometimes on a used car transaction.
It's a resistant market--it's not an open-arms market like the hybrids, which were immediately thought of as new, innovative, hi-tech, "green" etc.
Just try to use the words "green' and "diesel" to the average American car buyer and you'll get a skeptical look I think.
VW gets a very respectable 24 mpg on its gasser Jetta's. The like model (diesel 09 Jetta TDI, DSG) on the other hand is almost literally vilified for getting 38 mpg or 58% BETTER fuel mileage !!!!!?????
(we get a range of 39-45, more like 42/43 mpg)
This is not even to mention that RUG to PUG is 76 to 122% MORE !!! ( per mile driven)
So just as long as diesel is an option.... suffer in silence
I just filled the 03 Jetta TDI this morning. The last couple of tank fulls, I have been running around in "italian tune" mode. This tank yielded 50.7 mpg :surprise: I did keep it under 90 mph !!! :shades: I am guessing the computer re calibrated the fuel flows and adjusted accordingly. :shades:
It had tons of tourqe, quiet and smoke free. It featured a 2.2 ltr engine with a Honda invented exhaust system that worked very much like the VW 09 Jettas.
A big enough family hauler that no one mentioned claustraphobia, teeny cup holders, or cramped quarters back in the, cheap section.
No, they all marvelled at the fuel gauge that didn't move, seemed to be broken or welded on 'full'.
I think North American's would buy anything that got 60 mpg at 70 mph even if it burnt bat [non-permissible content removed].