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VW Jetta TDI

1565759616293

Comments

  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    $ 1,200 under invoice??? I think you wanted to say "under MSRP", right?
    I don't think any dealer in right mind would sell a car for $ 1,200 below his cost!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Where have you been? Check Fitzmall.com prices on TDIs, Hyundais, etc. They sell just about every vehicle under "factory invoice". TDIs are sold for $1000-1500 under invoice. Most dealers make their money through used cars, backshop, parts and then new cars in that order. They make money on new cars by selling volume and getting money back from the manufacturers for hitting sales numbers which are in addition to "dealer money" that is known. Happens day in/day out. Nearly every car any GM dealer is selling right now is well below factory invoice and I'm not talking about MSRP.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Thanks for the kind words. Part of it was the selection of the TDI for the combination of daily commute and weekend longer distance touring travel. For the first 3 or so years, the yearly mileage was 15,000 commute and 10,000 weekend (25,000 miles per year) . The younger one was involved in school and club basketball, so it was almost literally every weekend (during the seasons) somewhere in WA, OR, CA, NV. This is not to mention joining the older one at college for scheduled lunches over 4 years (600 mile round trip in a day)
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    "Where have you been? Check Fitzmall.com prices on TDIs, Hyundais, etc. They sell just about every vehicle under "factory invoice"

    You are right about the Fitzmall discounts, but they must be getting so popular that they have decided to grab a thousand more on each $ale now.

    @s for not following up on it.

    Still a little under the Invoice of $24,138 but the deal last month it was $3,500 under invoice.

    Candy White
    DSG
    Steering wheel controls
    PWR sunroof
    Rubber mat package.
    $20,626
    invoice number VO71644

    Same set up now, $22.321

    Still better than your local VW and a good number to throw on the Sales managers desk when you get the song and dance ...

    "Can't gettum, all sold out, no deals, take a number"

    In fact the Montana VW Stealership in Great Falls is using what they call a "Side Sticker" a stip of B$ added to the MSRP that adds an extra $2,000!

    You could have a new 09 delivered right to your door from Fitzmall, pay for the shipping and still save thousands.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    My wife has an 05 Mazda 6 4 cyl. with 31K on the clock with no problems whatsoever. Recently had to replace the Michelins, which must be of a soft compound. She had a Sebring conv. before with Michelins that got 50K before they needed replacing (and 3 a/c units and a slew of other parts). All in all, the 6 is a great car. I too like the VW's, especially the TDI Sportwagen. But the reliability issues scare me. A friend at work had a bug that needed a new starter. VW replaced the entire engine. My wife's 6 gets 28 mpg Hwy, which I find somewhat disconcerting for a 4 banger.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yeah, I thought I just read recently where someone did just that....had a car shipped from Fitzmall to thier home I believe in the Midwest somewhere. Saved thousands like you said. Figures they would raise prices as they were killing everybody big time. They had a bunch at one time. I was checking out thier CC's also and they had some real deals and then the inventory shrank and no more deals. Oh well, supply and demand at work. Aint capitalism great!

    Around Chicago the dealers tried that additional markup B$ and cars just sat. There is too much competition to get away with that for too long here but where there is one dealer for every 100 miles or so I can see where they would get greedy. But you know what? They sell em for as much as they can get and we try to buy as low as we can and we don't care if they are hurting either. So it all works out I guess.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    That's strange. My '07 Mazda6 is also an I4 and it consistently gets between 31-33 hwy. I took about 4 rts (about 800 miles each) Chicago/Minneapolis last year and each time got those numbers. That is pretty straight hwy at about 70-75mph using cruise with only a rest/meal stop. Winter mpg drops a little with the formula. We run about 10% ethanol blend around the midwest which also drops mpg a tad. You should be getting a little better unless you drive with a real heavy foot as I don't really baby it. You're right though about it being a great car. I don't think I ever had a more trouble free car knock on wood.

    I've had a two VWs(Kharmon Ghia and Fastback in the late 60s and early 70s) that had problem after problem but I was young and literally drove the $$$$ out of them. So much so that I really have to blame the problems on me and not the cars. In fact, they held up pretty good considering. I would not use any experience from that long ago in a buying decision today anyway.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Where was I ? I was 35 years in Southern California.... shipping to the West Coast kills the deal from Fitzmall (and I don't think they ship there anyway). There is also problem with tinted glass - most cars on the East Coast don't come with it while almost all cars on the West Coast have it as standard. Bought several cars in Fl and none of them had tinted glass....
  • dice4dice4 Member Posts: 9
    I have noticed that the prices at fitzmall have been creeping up. I mentioned it to the sales maneger, she didnt give me an appropiate response over internet. I have the printouts. When I am ready to purchase I will deal with this. Currently in Panama, but when I lived in Kalispell I always purchased in Washington through costco. I gave dealers a chance in GF billings etc, they always acknowledged it was great trying to purchase in state but never would come close to price I was offered.I will purchase in MD when I return and drive back to Kalispell. Hope I dont experence any problems with DSG. The difference in cost will pay for week in DC and travel back. Wife has never been to states so it will all be an adventure
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have found Oregon dealers hungry and ready to deal in the past on VW. Armstrong VW for one was very good to deal with. Picked me up at the Portland airport. You could license to your home in Florida and drive it in CA. Save on that horrendous CA sales tax and license fees. They show 26 Jetta TDI models in stock today. Including 2 Sportwagens.

    Armstrong VW
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Yep - that is where my car is licensed/registered - in FL - for $ 73.00 per year!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Is the tint on the windows applied locally or are they shipped from the manufacturer like that? Do dealers in California just automatically tint the windows of all vehicles??? I wouldn't think manufacturers would tint the windows of just cars going to a certain market but I really don't know.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The windows come CLEAR (untinted) in the CA market.

    I am actually a tad confused also. One of window tint's past advantages USED to be UV filtering capabilities. Supposedly, (VW's anyway) have come with UV filtering window glass. (I can tell this by way of modern polarizing prescription UV filtering corrective eye wear and clip on "polarizing" UV protection sunglasses.)

    My take is tinting DRAMATICALLY reduces interior heat due to sunlight absorption. Tints also have come with metal reflective coatings. (further sun light reflection)

    When you combine that with a white paint job, you (I) can run a fan speed or two LESS than like... but dark colored paint jobs.

    I am now not sure what a double (glass), double(tint) (and with modern eyewear...double double) UV filtering really does. I do know it plays havoc with the GPS screen and I see polarizing "halo's"aka color spectrum divisions "rainbow" on the wind shield under a lot of conditions. I do have what they call "transition" lenses and they do not seem to turn as dark or as fast when I am driving (UV protected windows).
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    You know, I think she does have a heavy foot, though she'd never admit to it. She never coasts to a red light or stop sign. No, it's brake at the last possible minute with me grabbing for the OS bar. I see folks in front looking at us in their rearviews with eyes wide open. Thank goodness the 6 has great brakes!
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    Good luck with your purchase, dice. And let us know how you like the new ride.

    Regards,
    Dale
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    In Southern California cars automatically come with dark windows - dealers do not have to "tint" them. Every car that I have purchased there since mid-70's came with dark windows (about 30 or so). Tinting means that a foil is applied to the windows, if windows are clear. To certain markets on the West Coast most, if not all, cars come from manufacturers with dark glass/windows.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Cars in Southern California come with dark glass windows from the dealer and from the manufacturer (as long as cars are equipped with A/C ). Those, that do not have A/C come with clear untinted glass. Some people "tint" them anyway, to make them even darker. The only rule is that the front windows are lighter than rear windows so that the law enforcement can see the driver. That is not rule in Arizona and Nevada though, where you can have all windows dark.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    But I would think that if it was done at manufacture and based on a heat/sun type thing that cars delivered to Florida/Texas/Arizona etc would be the same as S. Cal. and the cars delivered to upper midwest would be light tint. Do the dealers order them that way from the manufacturers or do they have them tinted as soon as they hit their lot??

    I always thought it was one size fits all on the window tinting(as long as the car has A/C) and any extra tinting is done locally.

    I know we are straying from TDI topic a bit but I guess this applies to Jetta TDIs as well. :)
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Well, that what I thought as well but it isn't so. Car sold in FL do not come with dark tinted glass - go figure! I have bought 3 cars in Fl (Subaru, Mazda and VW Tdi) and none of them come with dark tinted factory windows. All cars that I bought in Southern Calif. came with dark factory tinted findows.... I don't think Dealers have anything to say - it is the distributor for each and every region that assigns cars with specific options(from manufacturer) although dealer can "special" order the car according to your needs. Why they don't come factory tinted in FL, AL and the South East is beyond my comprehension.
    Extra "tinting" in the South East is that a dark film in dfferent shade is applied to windows by independent tinting shops. Some dealers subcontract tinting (with a foil) to these shops if the customer wants it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If anybody hears of any good TDI lease deals before I do, let me know!
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Just had a look at the ArmstrongVW listings and from what I see, they must really drop the price when you are dealing because their posted prices on the 09' Jetta TDI Sedans are dog poo.

    $28,000 (+) for a jetta sedan with no options except DSG?

    The same car on Fitzmall would be $5,000 less even on a bad day.
    That's enough cash difference to make you get a little creative on how you are going to get one parked on your driveway isn't it?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    When I bought my 2005 Passat wagon TDI, I emailed or called every dealer in the Northwest. Armstrong was the only one that offered me a great deal. Some were close to Invoice none close to the deal offered by Armstrong. I dealt with the Internet manager who has since retired and moved to Hawaii. I never look at the prices on the inventory. They are almost always MSRP, except for outfits Iike Fitzmall. Shoot them an email and tell them you will buy from the dealer offering the lowest price. You will fly in pick up the car and that is the last they will see or hear from you. I also pay cash which simplifies the transaction.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    $ 1,200 under invoice??? I think you wanted to say "under MSRP", right?
    I don't think any dealer in right mind would sell a car for $ 1,200 below his cost!


    Sorry so late to get back to you. It was $1,200 under invoice. VW had some dealer incentives for their larger dealers. I spoke with one in Columbus OH (biggest in mid-west they claim) and best they would do is invoice. Said they weren't willing to dip into the incentive money. Dealer in Philadelphia was $1,200 under invoice and had 25 or so in stock. The deal I worked on a six-speed manual with protection package was right around $21,300.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    wow - good deal! Congrats.....
  • mikemartinmikemartin Member Posts: 205
    Wanted to let everyone know that I was told by a VW Dealership manager that the 2010 Jetta TDI will use the same type of urea system Daimler uses to neutralize emissions.

    If they're making this change, doesn't that spell a problem since they've so proudly touted they're urea-free system so far?

    He claimed it was to eke out more fuel economy but that doesn't seem rational, not to me at least.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    That is news...perhaps.

    Here's a few tid bits lifted off another post about the Jetta TDI changes from 09' to 2010............................................................................- ........

    Color choices are the same except white gold replaces laser blue. Laser blue is no longer available.
    Bluetooth with voice control is now standard
    New instrument cluster and steering wheel
    Steering wheel controls standard on the 2010 Wagon
    New interior trim bits and seats
    Touchscreen radio "premium 8 RCD-510" replaces non touchscreen radio "premium 7"
    Gray interior no longer available
    Door lock/unlock and side mirror controls moved.

    Optional differences

    MDI w/ iPod cable replaces iPod adapter option at same price
    Navigation price reduced with elimination of MDI

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Touareg V6 TDI uses urea injection. I cannot find any changes to the 2.0L TDI engine for 2010-11. The Golf GTD will eventually get the 170 HP 2.0L TDI that is a real hot rod as diesels go. Still no mention of urea. All the V6 diesels from Audi, VW, BMW and Mercedes use urea injection. Sadly there are better ways to cut NoX.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    I have read that the next real, total frame up change for the Jetta is due to come in 2011.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If that is true, then it might mean 2011 will be the first MY of Gen VI. In keeping with common knowledge, precisely the first MY to AVOID ! :surprise: By default that would make Gen V MY's 2009 and 2010 (given the path of constant improvement) the better MY's of the Gen V.

    By the reference here to 2006 this news might be 3/4 years in the making link title

    R & T's take link title

    MT's take link title
  • mikemartinmikemartin Member Posts: 205
    Forgot to mention, not only did the manager tell me that the 2010 Jetta will use urea (he told me they did not have a new 09 TDI for me to drive but will call me when the 2010 is in), he told me VW will pay for the first two urea refills, expected to be needed at approximately each 7000 mile mark, and after that, the customer has to pay, and it's $200 per refill.

    Can anyone who works for VW or at a VW dealer confirm or deny?
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Well,Touareg is manufactured/assembled in my hometown and I will be there in a couple of weeks. I will find out from my buddies in that factory and in the neighboring country where VW owns Skoda factory.

    As far as 2010 Tdi with urea injection (a.k.a. AdBlue) the information from dealers is not always correct. Information from distributors is a bit more accurate as they have to plan marketing strategy for any new models that will be sold in each particular country. The correct information about future models is normally accurate from the manufacturer's R&D group. But even that may not translate into what will go into production and what will be sold. That is up to the management group of the factory and is normally confidential due to competition. I worked for over 10 years with R&D in Trollhattan, Sweden developing and testing new and future Saab models (before GM took over). We had cars that were being developed and tested (including a diesel and clutchless transmission). Not all of them ever went into production or sale.
    AdBlue (manufactured by BASF Group in Germany) has following bulletin out:
    The SCRT® - Selective Catalytic Reduction + Continuously Regenerating Trap - depends upon the use of AdBlue® for the selective catalytic reduction and upon regeneration of the filter in the CRT® to prevent large accumulations of soot and eventual filter blockage. Use of the incorrect reducing agent, poor vehicle maintenance, excessive engine smoke, oil consumption or high sulphur fuel can prevent the SCRT® system from operating satisfactorily.

    AdBlue®
    The industry standard AdBlue®, an aqueous solution of urea, is used as the reducing agent in the SCRT®. Without AdBlue®, the system will not function correctly and remove NOX from the exhaust gas.

    Only AdBlue® and no other reducing agent should be used in the SCRT® system.
    The AdBlue® level should be checked regularly and each time the vehicle is re-fuelled to ensure the tank does not run dry any time during vehicle operation.
    NB. The vehicle will continue to operate without AdBlue® but the SCRT® will not function correctly and remove NOX from the exhaust gas. No damage will be caused in this situation.

    The freezing point of AdBlue® is -11°C. In extreme cold environments it is possible the AdBlue® stored on the vehicle could freeze. Procedures to prevent this from happening should be taken as freezing could cause damage to the storage tank and will prevent the SCRT® system from functioning correctly.
    Fuels
    Use only diesel fuel with sulphur content less than 50 ppm and conforming to EN590
    Do not use fuel additives other than those already incorporated in general commercial diesel fuel supplies.
    Additionally the following biodiesel and water-diesel emulsion fuels are approved for use with SCRT® technology:
    Biodiesel
    Greenenergy Global Diesel, 5% biodiesel, 95% ULSD
    Global Commodities UK Ltd, driveEco
    Rix Biodiesel Ltd, Bioblend 5
    Petroplus Marketing Ltd, Bio-plus
    Water-fuel Emulsions
    BP Aspira @ 10% demineralised water
    Lubrizol PuriNOxTM @ 10% demineralised water
    Engine Smoke
    The level of smoke produced by the engine should not exceed the maximum limits set by the engine manufacturer.
    In addition, AdBlue level is to be checked every other diesel fill tank as it consumes about 3 to 5% from the tank under the vehicle.
    Not sure why VW would go this route when current Jetta Tdi system works fine.
    But, one never knows! I also think Daimler Benz together with BASF hold patent on this technology and whoever would want to use it would have to pay hefty royalties. But, I am not sure about that - just my speculation.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    More on the subject:

    What is AdBlue? (urea solution)

    AdBlue is a high-purity, harmless, colorless, synthetically produced 32.5% solution of urea.

    AdBlue is not a hazardous substance and has been placed in the lowest water hazard class 1. The high purity and uniform quality are guaranteed by DIN 70070.

    What is AdBlue required for?

    In the SCR system, AdBlue reduces toxic nitrogen oxides in the exhaust gases of diesel-engined commercial vehicles to water and elementary nitrogen (a natural constituent of the atmosphere).

    How long can AdBlue be stored?

    AdBlue decomposes over time in storage to form ammonium hydroxide and carbon monoxide; it then no longer fulfills the requirements of DIN 70070. Provided the maximum recommended storage temperature of 25 °C is maintained, AdBlue continues to meet the requirements of DIN 70070 for at least 12 months after production. Should this recommended storage temperature be exceeded, this period is reduced.

    What is the refilling interval for AdBlue?

    The AdBlue consumption corresponds to approximately 3-6% of that of the diesel fuel. The size of the tank selected for the vehicle determines the AdBlue refilling interval. As a general rule, AdBlue will need to be refilled at each or every other refueling.

    Where can AdBlue be obtained at present and where will it be available in the future?

    AdBlue is currently available from BASF sales partners.

    What handling arrangements are required for AdBlue?

    Trendsetting handling.

    What does AdBlue cost?

    The price for AdBlue varies according to packaging, container, delivery location and quantity purchased. Current prices are available from our distributors.

    How can I store AdBlue at my facilities?

    To prevent contaminants from impairing the quality and at the same time to avoid high testing costs, AdBlue should be handled only in storage and filling systems intended exclusively for AdBlue. BASF distributors will be pleased to provide more information.

    Since AdBlue solidifies at -11°C and decomposes at an accelerated rate at temperatures above 25°C, storage and filling systems must be designed to assure of a temperature range of between 30 and -11°C.

    ® = registered Trademark of the Verband der Automobilindustrie
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    freezing point of adblue is -11C ! It will be freezing often in new england vehicles. Possibly there is a heater included for the Adblue tank. Not relevant to Jetta/Golf TDI! :)

    btw, there has been some misinformation here about California tinting laws posted here. folks can probably find the correct info via the California Vehicle Code & Cali state sites.

    Also there seems to be a misunderstanding among some readers that invoice price equals dealer cost. It generally does not, and buyers have no way to know what is the dealer cost.
    Dealer cost is literally "none of our business" here!

    sincerely, a dirty-diesel owner
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Dealer cost is literally "none of our business" here! ???

    Well, in my opinion, it is our business. An informed buyer should know appx. dealer's cost so that he/she knows how much room there is for negotiating out of the door price with sales persons. If it would be "none of our business" why so many websites (like Edmunds, Consumer Union, etc). would go into publishing dealers' cost? I am lost here....
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    Thanks joqoUSA, looks like we agree to disagree about whose business is whose! :)

    Admittedly the rules seem to be changing now about whose business is whose,
    now that govt can set pay rate and invalidate private contracts arbitrarily.

    As far as I used to know, there aren't any web sites which claim to publish dealer cost, and certainly not such esteemed sites as Edmunds or CU !
    If any sites were to publish details of the dealership/mfger's private contracts, maybe there would be some civil legal recourse possible due to them somehow wrongly-obtaining & publishing such info? (How would private contract info be obtained legitimately?!)
    If you know of a legit way to obtain info on private contracts like that, so we can best negotiate 2009/2010 Jetta TDI prices, probably lots of readers would like to know. (Actually many of us are probably lusting for Two-a-reg-2 TDI but I don't think Edmunds has a dedicated forum for those yet! :)
    best regards...
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Sorry, I was talking about dealer's invoice (not dealer's cost...). My mistake!

    By the way, dealership vs distributor prices are available to any insider in any car dealership and ditto for distributor vs manufacturer pricing. If I had such access or information I would not publish those on these pages for various legal reasons.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    tnx jogousa.

    i hear you on the car-dealer-insider aspect - business-manager/beancounters at the dealership would know all that info.
    It's gotta be very un-fun times for anyone working for or owning a car dealership, although it's probably worse to be seeking employment so thatone can then consider upgrading from 06 sedan TDI to 010 wagon TDI! or 2-a-reg TDI. :)
    One consideration against upgrading from 06 to 010 TDI is that the basic chassis is not upgraded at all, aside from the wagon being available now, and the nifty new engine and 6-spd. And a few of the 06 features/options are not available on the 09/010? The big wins for me would be the wagon form-factor and the 6-spd stickshift.. :)

    I understand most any vehicle "invoice price" is both a fabricated number as well as good baseline number from which to subtract all the incentives/cashbacks/etc. And that the resulting # after all those subtractions from 'invoice price' can be a good target/comparison number for shoppers before they visit/contact dealers to see how close each dealer is willing to get for any particular vehicle.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Sounds like you are proponent of the old saying..

    "Be not the first by whom the new are tried, and not the last to lay the old aside"

    Whoever said it, probably got seriously stung by "being the first" on a new one wheeled chariot.

    Sometimes tho, the "First" can be pretty good, our 2007 Nissan Versa was the 'First' and now almost 3 years later, it's still without a recall or trip to the dealership.

    The Jetta for all it's high cost of ownership is the same wheelbase as a Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Versa. So in all the reading from your links (thanks) here's where I get muddled with VW thinking..

    "As you know by now, VW plans to do that in part by "Americanizing" the Passat and Jetta, which not only will be sized to closely match Toyota Camry/Honda Accord and Corolla/Civic, respectively, but will be priced in line with those Japanese-American models, as well."

    My point ...they already are closly matched in size only the VW are more expensive.

    If the Honda TDI Accord was allowed into North America, VW would be in deep Dog Poo.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, I am just going by the history and chronology of VW. There are unfortunately too many examples. All I am reasonably trying to do (for those concern) is to call attention so folks can do their own due diligence to try to lessen the CHANCES of getting the problematic ones. The good news is VW has come a very long way. The bad news is.... it has a very long way to go to repair the reputation.

    I really can not speak for Nissan products.

    ..."If the Honda TDI Accord was allowed into North America, VW would be in deep Dog Poo. "...

    Like VW shooting themselves in the foot on other issues, Honda is doing like wise on the diesel issue.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    "Honda Bringing 62.8 MPG Diesel to the US by 2010"

    This was one of several headlines from 2007 when Honda had their TDI out on the road in New York, showing it off to Auto Writers and other interested Diesel lovers.

    From the faint information I can find on 'Wahapped'.....

    The EPA passed the engine for emmisions in the standard transmission set up, but the diesel with the a/t got failed.
    Honda packed up their 2 diesel cars and went home, never to be heard from since. (or so gossip says)

    On a 'Conspiracy Theory' note, imagine what that car would have done to all the company hype and sales of the newly minted and about to be released Honda Hybrid........
    a 60 mpg Accord sized tire shredding diesel would have killed those wimpy hybrid sales deader than a doornail.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I'd like to know the invoice price on the next house I buy so that I can be informed and pay less or maybe my next refrigerator. I don't think we necessarily have the "right to know" invoice prices. The fact that they have been "outed" and published is a boon to us as car buyers and I'm not knocking it. However, I don't view it as a right to know what anybody selling anything paid for it themselves.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Since AdBlue solidifies at -11°C and decomposes at an accelerated rate at temperatures above 25°C, storage and filling systems must be designed to assure of a temperature range of between 30 and -11°C.

    That's like 10F and 78F. Plus having to check level and add after each fill up or two. $200 every 7k!!! That's too much hassle and too much money. Where do you keep the extra Adblue to keep it from freezing in your car.....under your armpit? Or does the car have some special heater that would keep it warm(and run your battery down) while it's parked at the airport in January!

    Smelly oily hands, hunting for D2, flucuating D2 prices and paying more up front are enough to go diesel....don't add all this other stuff.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    To me a couple of issues seem to be at work here (strictly from a "consumer's .02 cent point of view")

    So if you are going to introduce an "Accord" diesel for example, you really want as wide appeal as you can. I am swagging it is purely a numbers thang.

    By way of explanation, I follow the manual transmission thread. There are sparse references to the passenger vehicle fleet 20% being manual (50.08 M), and total MY sales being @ 10%, each MY, ( with some claiming less than 10%).

    While you have to give credit to Honda offering manual transmissions as part of the line up for almost 4 decades, it would seem logical they would want to sell as many diesels as possible, without exceptions like... it only comes with a manual.

    Another might be they do not have a killer automatic transmission application, that showcases the diesel. As an on topic example, the 03 TDI Jetta automatic transmission (aka slush box) yielded (far) less mpg than the 5 speed manual transmission (which actually SHOULD have been a 6 spd manual transmission). The DSG or automatic "manual" transmission, aka computer aided dual clutch pack, sports -1 or -2 mpg off a 6 speed manual transmission.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    No manufacturer in their right mind would bring a new (probably expensive) model into the N.A. market offering only a manual tranny. If you look at just cars costing over 25K, which an Accord Diesel would definitely fall, I would think that the % of manuals is probably lower than 5%. Econoboxes skew % of manual/autos.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    I don't think we necessarily have the "right to know" invoice prices.

    In some respect I tend to agree with you, however, if I snoop around enough and ask the right people at the right places, I would think I could come up with the information.

    Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book post what I assume are true invoice prices when you research a vehicle, so it’s not that the information is top secret. Then again?
  • tangledup625tangledup625 Member Posts: 5
    I just got a JSW TDI with optional cross bars to the roof rails. I plan on getting a cargo box (Thule or Yakima) but not certain how long a box it can accomodate w/o blocking the rear hatch or hanging too far forward. Anyone with a Jetta wagon want to weigh in? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Any brand preference?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Everybody knows there are many reputable websites that publish invoice prices. I'm just commenting on the perception that we have the right to know what the person selling something paid for it. You kind of hit the nail on the head when you said "if I snoop around enough". Snoop being the key word here.

    If you were selling used cars and someone asked "before I make an offer I want you to tell me what you paid for the vehicle". Would you balk or say "oh well, it's your right to know so here it is". I don't think so.

    Used cars are a good example. Try to find out what a dealer paid for a used car. They make thousands sometimes on a used car transaction.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nah, it's not a conspiracy....diesel cars are very difficult to market and sell in the USA--that's the real problem. Americans don't generally like diesel cars. They need to be "trained" to like them, which takes lotsa marketing $$$.

    It's a resistant market--it's not an open-arms market like the hybrids, which were immediately thought of as new, innovative, hi-tech, "green" etc.

    Just try to use the words "green' and "diesel" to the average American car buyer and you'll get a skeptical look I think.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    To me it just goes to show all the drive to lessen dependence on oil is... just hype.

    VW gets a very respectable 24 mpg on its gasser Jetta's. The like model (diesel 09 Jetta TDI, DSG) on the other hand is almost literally vilified for getting 38 mpg or 58% BETTER fuel mileage !!!!!?????

    (we get a range of 39-45, more like 42/43 mpg)

    This is not even to mention that RUG to PUG is 76 to 122% MORE !!! ( per mile driven)

    So just as long as diesel is an option.... suffer in silence ;)

    I just filled the 03 Jetta TDI this morning. The last couple of tank fulls, I have been running around in "italian tune" mode. This tank yielded 50.7 mpg :surprise: I did keep it under 90 mph !!! :shades: I am guessing the computer re calibrated the fuel flows and adjusted accordingly. :shades:
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    I have read all the car reviews on the Honda Diesel testers they featured, and they got rave reviews from all the gear head, leadfooted, lets trash it, car writers that got behind the wheel.
    It had tons of tourqe, quiet and smoke free. It featured a 2.2 ltr engine with a Honda invented exhaust system that worked very much like the VW 09 Jettas.
    A big enough family hauler that no one mentioned claustraphobia, teeny cup holders, or cramped quarters back in the, cheap section.
    No, they all marvelled at the fuel gauge that didn't move, seemed to be broken or welded on 'full'.
    I think North American's would buy anything that got 60 mpg at 70 mph even if it burnt bat [non-permissible content removed].
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