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VW Jetta TDI

1585961636493

Comments

  • wilewile Member Posts: 1
    I bought a 2003 Jetta TDi this january with 200,000 km's. every time I start out, it smokes black, sometimes for quite a while. My mechanice tells me to put a bottle of John Deere fuel conditioner in the tank with every fill, which I have been doing. He has manually cleaned out the EGR valve, and lubricated the turbo, but it still smokes.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Detroit profits were mostly on pick-ups and SUVs - that is where the factory/manufacturer makes most money. 4-door sedans/wagons segment is too crowded with a lot of competition and it costs more to assemble those.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    The term "break in" is nearly archeac. Todays modern machining technology leaves metal surfaces almost perfect.

    With that said, you need to concentrate on making the piston-rings seal as best as they can BEFORE the cylinder-walls glaze. It is nearly imposible to seal the rings after the walls are glazed. This type of engine tends to burn oil and get poor MPG.

    Many words have been written about how to seal the rings to the cylinder-walls. Basically you need to use the turbocharger so the rings are forcefully pushed into the cylinder-walls. This means AGGRESSIVE ACCELLERATION - followed by DECELLERATION. You can start doing this after about 5,000 miles.... it takes over 20,000 miles to acheave full cylinder compression in a TDI.

    You do this with a fully-warmed engine. While on highway in 5th gear allow vehcile to slow to about 40MPH....then use FULL THROTTLE to get up to about 70MPH ... followed by decel back to speed-limit. Then drive normally for at least 20 minutes to allow temp to stabilize.

    Another way to do this is to use FULL THROTTLE ACCELLERAION from a stop to get up to 70MPH ... followed by decel back to speed-limit...again followed by cooldown period.

    You should do this AT LEAST 4 times per tank of fuel as long as you own the vehicle. There are benefets to keeping the turbocharger clean too!

    I personally seated the rings in my TDI using this process and enjoy up to 56MPG. (and have spreadsheet of every drop of fuel to prove it!) At over 100,000 miles, my engine is finally "loosened up" and running very well.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Back in the 70's I used RedLine diesel fuel additive - that reduced the smoke on my MB 240D.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's an old motorcycle trick and I think it works. My last new car, that's what I did. Full throttle bursts but NOT to a high rpm, followed by deceleration...maybe up to 4000 rpm at most (gas engine). I did that "right out of the box" and let me tell you my particular car was faster than identical cars I drove (or by owners who drove mine). If not "faster" at least more responsive-feeling.

    re: SMOKING -- probably dirty injectors, yep.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Have you tried changing where you buy the fuel? The only time my '00 TDI smoked enough to notice was when I bought what I consider lousy fuel. You might ask them who/where their diesel comes from and then go find someone that gets their diesel elsewhere. Sometimes a lot of local stations will buy diesel from the same truck....so you have to check around. Calling a fuel distributor (bulk dealer) can help as well. Tell them you're looking for a low-sulphur, high cetane fuel and see what they say.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I noticed this Forbes article on a www.tdiclub.com web site VW Tops Quality Survey
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It seems to be a more "well-rounded" survey, which I like, rather than just statistics about these or those little problems. It's no wonder, with this broader outlook, that VW did better than Toyota.

    "To get the rankings, Strategic Vision calculated the index based on survey questions about reliability, vehicle characteristics, dealership experience, styling, interior and exterior design and their overall perception of initial quality."

    when it comes to strictly reliability surveys, I like to look at least 2-3 years in the field before judging a car. Sometimes early production glitches get fixed, so first year record doesn't look as good as second year and beyond---and other times, a car starts out great but problems develop in 40-50K miles.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    that's how i broke in all my Z28s & 05 GTO... I doubt such a break-in added any hamsters to my 06 TDI engine; I think most all the TDIs are laughably slow but very drivable due to torque.
    04/05 passat TDI had decent grunt but also a now-apparent design flaw - chain driven oil pump apparently fails on *every* one of the 04/05 passat TDIs, and now VW sells a replacement gear-system instead. it's $2000+ job, and usually not under warranty. !

    As far as TDI & redlining, i agree there's no reason to ever get close to redline or even yellow line, but seems like the consensus is that it's good to give the TDI a daily blast up to a decent rpm to let it the exhaust "blow its nose" of accrued soot in an old/DIRTY diesel, and let the turbo spread its 'vanes' .

    for the new/CLEAN jetta TDI diesel, similarly blasting onto the the highway should help to ensure that the DPF can do its occasional cooking thing.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, given your 3rd paragraph, this is really what I don't understand.

    I have been running 2 cars (03 Jetta TDI 119,000 miles /04 Civic 87,000 miles) side by side (even I will say it is an apples to oranges comparison), for easily... 5 years. Needless to say, the "make up" has been off (glitz and glamor) for a very long time, if it ever was on.

    Hopefully for obvious reasons, @ similar mileage (87,000 miles) , BOTH have been completely and utterly reliable. Given both cars' similarities and differences, I have been completely happy with both.

    The wear items on the Civic are consumed at roughly 2 x the rate of the Jetta.

    This is interesting in that the Jetta is run harder and faster on the non commute portion and is 435 #'s heavier. I would dare say if I ran the Civic like I do the Jetta, the consumption rate would be more like 3x to maybe 4x's higher !!?? It would also probably be a drag to the 38-42 mpg we now post.

    One explanation could be "higher" initial quality. Another could be the Civic engineers designed it that way: given that most folks are almost brainwashed about the Civic's quality before most folks even own one.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Given the wikipedia article about VW TDI engines (the BOLD- my sic), I would agree. (msg # 3107)

    @ 75% RPMS or 3,825 rpms (of 5,100 redline) that would accomplish the goals.

    (sorry to hear about the $2k chain driven oil pump issue).
  • tennctennc Member Posts: 2
    I have just taken delivery on a new 2009 Platinum Gray TDI sedan and was reading over the owner's manual which shows four tie down locations in the trunk. My car has two in the back but none up toward the back seat as in the manual photograph.

    Is this normal for new TDIs or did mine miss out on something that is supposed to be there?
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Can't honestly say if they're missing or not, but I have found that VW's owner's manuals are not necessarily the most accurate. There is also the option that they are simply living up to their abbreviation: VW = Varies Widely.
  • tdifuntdifun Member Posts: 10
    Just wanted to give everyone an update. The trans seems to be reacting faster off the start, just needs some more miles. Only 300 miles so far. Also still on first tank of gas, can't wait to fill er up and see how I did, only knowing its going to get better each tank.

    I can never get the keys from the wife, as she drives it to work most of the time.
  • tennctennc Member Posts: 2
    Answer to my own question - By checking a half dozen of TDIs at the dealer it appears that all of these do not have the front tie down anchor points. Apparently this feature has been deleted.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Also still on first tank of gas,

    Tell me your not using "Gas". I must assume you are using "diesel" or your car would not be running.

    I know it's a tough habit to break, but after getting our TDI, I have had to make sure when talking to the wife I use the word diesel or fuel, never "gas" or I might end up with a tank full of it.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, that can be a VERY costly (MIS) fueling.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Putting gas in a diesel car is probably worse than putting diesel in a gas car--brcause the diesel will actually run for a while and may cause serious damage. The gas car would just conk out in about 100 ft.
  • tdifuntdifun Member Posts: 10
    LOL, yeah it was a slip up on typing. Yes, I put diesel in and got 28 MPG for the first tank.
  • danstdidanstdi Member Posts: 10
    Have a 2001 with 304,000 km. Always loved this car. I have maintained it faithfully. At the moment, I am about 60% through the life of my 2nd replacement timing belt. Use 5/8 of an once of Raycor Cetane booster every fill.

    What I have noticed recently is a loss of power when I reach the 2800 RPM band. More noticeable up hills. Interestingly enough, I am not getting any warning from the MIL or any other lamp on the dash. I know they are working as they light up on engine start as perscribed. This sort of thing happened at just over 100,000 km a few years ago and was told it was my mass air flow sensor (but I did get a MIL warning on my dash when this happened). That was replaced under the emission warranty.

    Usually, anytime something is wrong, some lamp would tell me so on the dash. Not his time. Due for an oil change next week - I'll ask the mechanic - just wondering if anyone has had a similar problem?

    I plan to run this car to 500,000 - I enjoy driving it very much.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Like jkinzel, I needed to ingrain in myself to NEVER make even the mistake of pulling up to a "GAS" pump with the diesel !!!
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Sounds like you should check that the VNT actuator is moving its full distance.
    Also would not hurt to hook up to VagCom and check your IQ (Injection Quality).

    Additionally, if you have never cleaned your intake-manifold. I would put money on the fact that your intake-manifold needs to be removed and cleaned. (It is a KNOWN issue with running North-American crappy diesel in an EGR-equiped engine.)
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Not bad for a start, it will get better as you put some miles on. Last night I was driving rather spirited through the Bronx/Queens area and had about 27 MPG (including being stuck in some construction). Highway driving around 75 or so I am averaging around 42 MPG, currently a bit over 22K.

    A question for those far more experienced with diesels than myself, I can't recall what I've read/heard about max mileage and when you can expect to see it. If I'm not mistaken, is it around 40-50K?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Correct, it is anywhere from 30,000 to 60,000 miles for full break in ( aka, app 550 psi compression, new comes in @ app 410- 425 psi). This in in stark contrast to gasser engines @ 1,000 to 4,000 miles.
  • danstdidanstdi Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for that info!
  • 2newonesfor092newonesfor09 Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone know if there is permanent damage if you get low sulfur for fuel in the new TDI. I'm in New York, and they don't always label the pumps. (like whats 40 rating). I put a tank of LSD not ULSD. Car runs, no problem, but is there long term problems. Won't make this mistake again, found a station with proper labels, but a little more expensive.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The 40 could be the cetane rating. I think I would add a little power service. The higher sulfur can be an issue. I doubt it will cause you any grief. LSD is supposedly 30 PPM vs 15 PPM for ULSD. When most diesel sold for years was 500 PPM or more. Look for a high cetane number. That will make a difference in the way your TDI performs.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    LSD is still allowed to contain up to 500 ppm sulfur.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are right. I was reading about BP LSD being 30 PPM and thought that was the limit. CA mandated 130 PPM diesel some years back. The biggest problem with using anything but ULSD in a new VW TDI would be the emissions system could be damaged by the sulfur.

    When I bought my Passat TDI in 2005, I was able to find ARCO stations that only sold ULSD in CA. It ran great for the 8000 miles I kept it.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    To cut to the chase, the DPF regeneration phase should take care of the "increased soot" issue.

    The Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)
    What is it?


    I can not speak for the 2009, as I totally researched about (15-5 ppm) ULSD and the most likely damage would be to the (very expensive) DPF. On the road, I once put a B5 Chevron tank full, but I will stay with ULSD D2.

    Overall, it is way too new to tell and while there have been incidences of "mis fueling" (LSD) none have had LSD steady diets. Moreover, there have been no 2009 TDI LSD damage reports.

    Off topic, there has been RUG to PUG, D2 mixture damage reports. :lemon: So... do NOT try this at home !!! ;)

    The 2003 TDI was designed for ULSD (15-5 ppm) but (mine) was run most of its operating life on LSD ( 130 ppm CA & 500 ppm 49 state) (till Oct 2006 to present- ULSD)

    The EPA and CARBs even as they professed lesser emissions, controlled it to tactically FORCE.... MORE emissions.)

    @ 100,000 miles the TB/WP change was due so of course took the opportunity to look at and possibly CLEAN/change out the intake manifold and clean the EGR. The guru pronounced both good to go (to 200k or next 100k interval) The camshaft original tool markings was also GOOD news !!! For all intent and purposes I can tell no (SOTP) difference/s between LSD (both CA/49 state) and ULSD (15-5 ppm)

    Diesel ON !!
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    " took the opportunity to look at and possibly CLEAN/change out the intake manifold and clean the EGR. The guru pronounced both good to go (to 200k or next 100k interval) The camshaft original tool markings was also GOOD news !!! "

    So you have been burning LSD or worse for the past 100,000 miles and your engine is still squeeky clean?

    That seems to fly in the face of those with gunked up manifolds and frozen turbos. The common diagnosis has always been that the high sulfer fuel was the culprit.

    What's your system for avoiding that huge problem that some diesels have?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes. At the time (early 2003), that was the worst fear &/or scenario.

    The "preventative"procedure: drive the turbo diesel as designed. (aka, slightly more aggressively I can get ultra specific, if it doesn't bore anybody) The spin off:.... let the mileage fall where it may.
  • danstdidanstdi Member Posts: 10
    Just an update after my visit with the mechanic. Went to a private shop that specializes in VW as opposed to the dealer.

    It turns out my problem was an almost totally blocked intake manifold (they showed me the gunked up manifold) - could hardly get my small pinky finger through!. They removed the intake, steamed cleaned it, replaced the EGR valve and the mass air flow sensor. They checked the VNT actuator and nothing was wrong with it. The work came to about $700 Canadian - not bad - it was less than I would have expected at the dealer. Forgot how poweful my car was as I got used to the loss of power for the last couple of months! It is nice to easily accererate up hills again.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Corrective action: Thanks for detailing the "corrective action".

    Thanks to the (American) EPA and CARBS for the needed but unnecessary cleaning !! :mad: :lemon:
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Seems the old gunky goo will get ya'.

    On a lighter note, here's a VW video that I think you'll get a blast out of...literally.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA&eurl=http://www.errachidia.org/video/- video-tdi-2-oet4qWeZuYA.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think you should be complaining as well to VW engineers, to be fair about it. My Benz diesels never did this and American truck diesels generally don't.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    For sure, I would/would have, if that problem had happened to me. While the issue does have its technical issues (500 ppm to 140 ppm), the new ULSD 15-5 ppm (since Oct 2006) should register an almost total drop in this issue due to LSD. The additional issue is of course not too many vehicles (VW TDI's, aka passenger diesel fleets) have app 100,000 miles since that time
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    more questions that it answers about the TDI's place in all of this.Mexico: VW Bets a Billion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Looks like a "small car bet", same as the Fiat tutorial for Chrysler. Unfortunately for Chrysler, VW already knows how to build a small car.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes I guess I was just trying to resolve the 2009 Jetta results with what will happen in the future. Jetta competes with the Civic's, Corolla's, Altima's AND the Accords, Camry's, Maxima's etc. While I know the Jetta is considered a compact car, I really consider the Fit and Civic, etc., more of the compact car.

    I think if I had to replace the Civic, I would probably lean toward the Polo. @ 61 mpg diesel, that is reason enough to zip around with. It would make the Civic @ 38-42 mpg look like a gas guzzler.

    You are absolutely correct, VW already does know how to make small cars.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    VW has the Japanese beat all ways to Sunday except reliability issues. I wish they'd put extreme effort these next 5 years in clearing up their reputation before it's too late.
    Reading the Jetta forums for older models is sometimes like listening to a report of the ravaging of Europe by the Mongols. :P It's interesting that the TDI enjoys a better reputation isn't it? Makes you realize that most of the problems are with the gas engines---timing belts, engine sludge, ignition coils, cam cover leakage, (V6) etc. Chronic issues that don't seem to go away.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Anyone who thinks the VW does not have a higher "RATE/INCIDENCE" of "issues" might be in denial. One essentially doesn't want to GET the queen in...THAT link title game.

    Essentially that was the decision fog I walked through with the 2003 Jetta TDI. So I looked at the issues common to both and concluded it was a fairly decently made machine, aka, I was willing to take the risk.Or, at the very worst, able to be mitigated.

    I am not sure why they have the engineering, reliability, durability problems they do with their GASSER engines !!! ??? Indeed in a bit of heresy, I would not get a current VW with a gasser engine!!?? Suffice to say while the TDI has its own peculiar issues, it has been a trooper.

    In addition, I did not use a VW spec oil (after the break in factory fill @ 5,000 miles) & have run 25,000 OCI's since. At 119,000 miles, the thing has literally been trouble free. Fuel mileage is 48-52 in a point a to b commute. I can get 44 to 62 mpg @ will. This thing was made to cruise @ lower autobahn speeds. As you know, we do not observe autobahn speeds past 70 mph and 80 mph in TX: God Bless TX. ;) :lemon: Oil consumption has been at 1/4 to 1/2 qt (8 oz to 16 oz) per 20,000 miles.

    As a side bar, the 2009 TDI has been flawless, EVEN with the DSG. Oil consumption is NIL/nada/ZIP, but we are only at 8,000 miles.

    I can make a (university engineering ) joke here, but it might be lost on most folks and offensive to others. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think it would help VW and hurt Porsche in the long run.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    From what I read, I am not sure if it was/were the 2 families design/s to own VW and Porsche using the credit snafu to make a move on VW and/or Porsche and get the (lower saxony) tax payers and the Qatar invester to pony up, or they just plainover extended and got caught in a wringer. Indeed it could be... all of the above and more, but in a different real time order. :confuse:
  • donthegreekdonthegreek Member Posts: 127
    Volkswagen to Acquire Porsche
    Volkswagen is planning to purchase all of sports carmaker Porsche, which has run into massive financial problems linked to its overly ambitious plan to take control of VW. The attempted takeover, which had been financed using loans, ultimately failed because of the credit crunch and ensuing liquidity problems that almost saw Porsche go bankrupt.

    SPIEGEL has obtained information that Volkswagen is planning a complete takeover of beleaguered sports carmaker Porsche in a series of two transactions. The company is planning the imminent purchase of 50 percent of Porsche shares and will purchase the remaining shares in the Stuttgart, Germany-based automobile manufacturer in a second step. Once completed, Porsche will become the 10th brand in the stable of Volkswagen, the world's largest carmaker.

    DPA
    Porsche headquarters in Stuttgart: VW has won the power struggle between the two companies.
    VW's move to acquire Porsche follows a power struggle between the companies. Porsche had sought to buy VW through complicated loan transactions that collapsed when the sports carmaker's liquidity dried up as a result of the credit crunch. It has already been reported that Wolfsburg-based VW would purchase 49.9 percent of Porsche, but SPIEGEL has learned it is now planning a complete acquisition in a second purchase of shares.

    The deal envisions a payout to Porsche Automobil Holding of €8 billion ($11.3 billion), enabling it to pay off the bulk of its crippling debts. VW is also considering acquiring Porsche's Salzburg-based network of dealerships from its family owners, a move that could raise an addition €3 billion for Porsche.

    Under the deal, the Porsche and Piëch families, Porsche's shareholders, would obtain 50 percent of the shares in the merged VW-Porsche company. The western German state of Lower Saxony would maintain its 20 percent holding in the company and the door would be open for the emirate of Qatar to purchase between 14.9 percent and 19.9 percent of the company's shares.

    German news agency DPA reported Friday that the Porsche and Piëch families had agreed to accept the Volkswagen deal. Reuters also reported the deal was now backed by Porsche supervisory board chairman Wolfgang Porsche, who had fought to maintain Porsche's independence from VW.

    SPIEGEL also reported on Friday that Porsche's current CEO, Wendelin Wiedeking, would step down and that the families had agreed to replace him with Porsche production chief Michael Macht.

    NEWSLETTER
    Sign up for Spiegel Online's daily newsletter and get the best of Der Spiegel's and Spiegel Online's international coverage in your In- Box everyday.

    Wolfgang Porsche denied the report on Friday evening, rebuffing "speculation" that Macht would succeed Wiedeking. Wiedeking, he said, remained head of Porsche AG and Porsche Holding. Deputy chairman of the board and works council chief Uwe Hück also defended Wiedeking. "Wiedeking is chairman of the board and he will continue to be so," he said.

    Nevertheless, Wiedeking appears to be preparing for his exit. DPA reported this week that he has hired prominent labor lawyer Jobst-Hubertus Bauer to help him negotiate a severance package, a development also reported by the Financial Times Deutschland newspaper.

    Wiedeking has reportedly been a client of Bauer's for some time now. The labor lawyer has negotiated golden handshakes for several top managers totaling millions in recent years. It is reported that Wiedeking could be up for a deal worth more than €100 million.

    dsl/spiegel -- with wire reports
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Does not look like Toyota got to be king of the mountain for very long. Now if VW can just build on the success of the Jetta TDI with lots of diesel offerings they could be number one in the USA. Not that we are so hot right now. China is the real emerging market. We are on a down hill slide.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes to VW's credit they have been and remain in the diesel market in the US. Some would say they are the market makers in the US diesel market.

    But the numbers in this example would be telling.

    You have a choice of selling 100 (TDI) vehicles. You have to go thru a costly and lengthy certification procedure and put on an extra 3,500 compliance system and it might take you some time to sell the 100 vehicles in the US markets.

    Now in China, way faster and less costly certification procedure and not having to put the extra 3,500 in the compliance system and they are literally sold before shipment !!. What would be YOUR choice !!??
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    Cool. I'll take a 911 TDI or Cayman TDI please, manual transmission.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Probably a stair step would be the new VW sports TDI. It seems to look like a redesigned Audi TT. I read somewhere it is est to del 45 mpg on D2.

    The 911 Carrerra S already has 385 hp and 310 #ft !! Using the same ratios as the VW Jetta TDI that would make a 911 TDI 266 hp and 448 # ft !!?? Or 45% more # ft !!!
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