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The very negative repair history in consumer reports,personal knowledge of problems VW owners have had, and the unwillingness of most VW dealers to quote a price on 100.000 mile service - those that were willing quoted $1200.00 - 18 to 20 months for me- realy made the decision easy for me. VW's rediculous maintenance costs, choppy ride & small inerior made the Camry with it's room, great ride. $2000.00 price advantage & low maintenance a no brainer for me.
I ordered the Camry from a dealer in Ohio to get away from SE Toyota's rediculous extra charges. I did blow the savings by ordering the V6. but after driving it, It's worth the extra money. I'll have it in 6-8 weeks
My opinion on the TDI has always been this: if you're going to go to a dealer for all service, the VW will cost you more than the fuel savings. Of course, maybe not compared to a V6 Camry....you'll spend more on fuel. Quality wise...Toyota has slacked off over the years. My '92 and '95 Camrys were amoung the best vehicles I've owned. Several later model Toyotas have been just average IMHO. My '00 Jetta has had very few problems. I give reliability little thought...the difference between the best and worst is really not all the much these days.
So another approach might be a VW TDI, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3. I do not know the MPG for a 6 cylinder Toyota Camry in YOUR circumstances, so I will assume the high side of the EPA of 22/31.
I know that in my commutes the 2003 VW TDI gets 50 mpg, the Honda Civic gets 38 mpg. So given 60,000 miles per year, the consumption of fuel is 1935/1200/1579 gals, respectively. At app $3. per gal, the yearly cost, respectively is $5,805/$3,600/$4,737. So for me just the fuel SAVINGS alone between a 6 cylinder Camry and the VW TDI over 5/6 years would be enough to buy a Honda Civic (2nd car). Or pay for 220,500 miles of commuting in a VW TDI.
The only thing scheduled that is so called "expensive" on the VW TDI is the TB timing belt change at 100k or so (600). This is vs a TB timing belt change at app the same mileage of (550)for a 2004 Honda Civic.
There is also a greater chance of unscheduled maintainanace due to VW reputation for higher % of problematic cars. In my case over 73,000 miles the VW TDI has been FLAWLESS. To be fair the Honda Civic with 26,000 miles has been FLAWLESS also. However the wearable parts on the Honda Civic seem to be wearing faster than on the VW TDI. This of course will mean I will need "scheduled" maintainance at more frequent intervals which would tend to cost more say over the life of a typical 5/6 year loan. During this period, you would tend to put on 300,000/360,000 miles. My sense is both vehicles VW TDI and Honda Civic are capable of going 300,000/360,000 miles. But I will let you know!! You of course will probably let US know SOONER !! All the best!
I should also round out the post by including the 1068 per year diffence in mpg between the Camry and the Honda Civic. Of course over a 5/6 year typical loan period this translates to 5340/6,408. Again all the best!!
even so, our XC90 has been parked lately and my wife is opting to drive our passat TDI instead due to the ~20 cents per mile savings (TCO) as well as the TDI's 650 miles per tank.
I know that the XC90 is a safe car. That is the largest reason I had for purchasing it. But we don't have the luxury of having it sit in the driveway. Not for the $650/month car payment. Another savings is the difference in car payment per month on, approx, a 12k loan--about $350-$400.
I did some simple math. Figuring that we drive about 30k per year, assuming that I will get 24 mpg in the Camry and 40 in the TDI, that the average price of gas will remain at $3 (pipe dream, I know) I would save about $1200 per year in fuel costs.
I have never kept a car for 100k miles or over 5 years. My 99 Miata, when I sold it in '05, had only 35k. The warranty of 5/50 seems adequate for me if I can keep my wife from putting such large miles on the car. Even if we keep it for 3 years under the warranty, I feel comfortable. Warranties are a good thing and if people are complaining of problems with the car, I would much rather have VW pay for the repair than I.
We were very impressed with the safety records, in its class, of the TDI. I was not so with the Camry. I was especially drawn to the good rating it got for rear side impact; you know where the 3 year old and 2 month old sit.
The Camry seemed to nickel and dime me for options. To keep mpg higher, we were looking at the LE model. Very few of the standard features of the Jetta TDI were even offered in the Camry. When it was all said and done, the under $20k car was the same price as the TDI.
I am going to take the XC90 in to both the VW dealership and Carmax to see what they will give me for it. If the numbers match up, who knows, I may have a TDI next week. We are going to, however, take the Camry for a day or so to see how we really feel about it. i was very happy with VW here in Fayetteville, NC when they didn't bat an eye when I declined to test drive and told them I only wanted to take it for the day and return the next. No problems from them. They even offered to let me have it again this weekend.
Thanks for all of the input. I really do appreciate it.
jeff
DL
DL
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Replying to: jworthington (Apr 26, 2006 4:40 pm)
The Toyota will be more reliable than Jetta... that is almost a given. but dont confuse "reliability" with "quality".
Before I bought my 05 Passat TDI I owned a 04 Toyota Seinna. While I had the Seinna we had four recalls, so don't say the VW Jetta is that much worse than Toyota. I have owned over 40 new vehicles and I consider the Toyota Seinna the second worse vehicle I have ever owned. The only good thing I can say about it is: It had the best radio of all and it averaged 20 mpg.
Our 05 VW Passat TDI had some minor problems that the dealer fixed the first month. We AVERAGE right at 35 MPG. I have some complaints: The AM side of my radio has poor reception and I hate the 17" tires. 17" tires are hard to find and expensive. You can get 16" tires. That was my fault.
As for the $35,000 price for the Jetta. I have a hard time believing an 06 Jetta TDI would cost that much. I only paid $25,000 for our new 05 Passat TDI. One big plus for the new Jetta's is the new automatic transmission. I wish I had this on my Passat. I've seen a number of reports on the 06 Jetta TDI and all are great plus the new crash test for the 06 Jetta was 5 star.
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
I drive about 2,300 miles a month and need a reliable car with great mileage. Does the TDI REALLY get 48 mpg on the highway? Any guesses at the MPG if I'm cruising at 80 mph?
I'm hoping the 2006 TDI will blow my 2003 Civic Hybrid away!
DL "
As most folks know, the one figure one pays for auto insurance can be made up of a number of categories. So in terms of "safety" the fact that the Civic and its sister the Intergra are 2 of the highest rate of stolen cars, year after year would probably affect/effect the comprehensive portion and not the "liability" portion.
I would agree wit your first sentence. It might not be in the direction you might think! @ 80 mph I get a steady 50 mpg. I would disagree with your 2nd sentence. At 65/70 we are talking inxs of 55 mpg.
It is IMPERITIVE that one breaks in the TDI engine properly to acheive good sealing of the piston rings. Babying a TDI engine may result in lower MPG overall.
DL
I've talked with the dealer about their availability, and even though the owners manual talks about how to turn them on by pulling outward on the light switch, the dealer sounds like there isn't much chance of VW offering them as an add on accessory.
I see the new VW GTI has them, and that the side front grilles they are mounted in look very similar in size and shape to the Jetta, but no support from the dealer on checking for fit.
Has anyone out there found an answer for this? I'd really like to get some, but want them to look like they belong there, and not just some aftermarket afterthought.
:confuse:
DL
DL
Thanks,
John C.
P0380 (Glow Plug/Heater Circuit(A) ElectricalFault in Circuit) - Read that changing the harness may fix this error. Any other thoughts?
P1403 (EGR Flow Deviation) - Couldn't find any suggestions for a fix for this one. Any thoughts?
Thanks much!!
P0380 == Ususally a CONNECTOR between harness and glowplug. If not maintained, these connectors will corrode to the point of failre. Replacing harness ends may be the only long-term fix for this.
P1403 == Sounds like your engine may suffering from getting intake-manifold plugging. To check for this, pull off the clamp/hose entering the intake manofold on the passengers side. Use flashlight to look inside... I am willing to bet that you will find it filled with carbon-goo.
I believe that's the code I get every six months or so. I find cleaning all the contacts with sand paper (or other contact cleaner). The MIL is very sensitive and a little corrosion can set the light. That's the cheap thing to try anyway!
This is not our only problem. You could blame VW Jetta for all the chuckholes in all the roads today. I've ruined two tires because of them. You could blame the Jetta for bad windshields just because no one covers the gravel trucks anymore. You could blame VW for bad tires that keep picking up screws from contractors trailers. The truth of the matter is the US auto manufactories and Toyota don't want VW to succeed with their diesels. They would rather keep building the big tanks for the soccer mons.
The real truth is the 06 Jetta TDI is the best diesel car in the US market today. There are plenty of dealers for support and they don't cost an arm and a leg to buy.
I agree, foglamps should be standard basic safety equipment, but at least an option for all, if standard on some like the 2.0T, and GTI
It sounds like you have looked into this too, since you seem to know the costs of the associated parts.
Do you know for sure if the grilles are interchangeable for fit? If so, I may continue to pursue them.
Thanks!
DL
If you REALLY want more light... there are other options. (use your favorite search-engine and search for "VW AND E-Code")
Tarheel
Thanks,
DL
I installed Hella Micro DE fog lights and lower grills in my 2004 Passat GL TDI wagon, which did not come with factory fogs. The end result looks and functions 100% factory. I had to change the lower grills (supplied by Hella), run wires from the fog lights to the wiring harnesses in the kick panels, plug a VW fog light relay into the fuse panel, and change to a European headlight switch. I also wired the tail lights for rear fog lights. Except for the ground wire, the wiring from the front fog lights to the kick panel, and the wiring to the rear fog lights, its factory.
I just bought my Jetta TDI yesterday, and I have not yet received the eBahn CD, so I am not sure yet which factory wires to tap into. But, I imagine the European headlight switch will plug in to the North American wiring harness without a problem, and I bet the North American wiring harness contains front fog light wiring coming out of the fuse panel.
Did you know that your headlight switch just "unplugs" from the dashboard? Push it in slightly and turn it... then it just pulls right out of the dashboard. The wiring-harness remains in the back of the dash...which the switch assembly pull out of it.
As for your argument that "other" turbocharged VWs have foglights.... you make a very good point.
I guess I just wanted to point out the we need to be cognizant of the intercooler air-intake as we think about adding foglights.
To me losing an oil pan is pretty catastrophic given the fact that if you are not quick enough to shut down the engine, you will cook it. If this is still an issue with the 2006's then I would be looking to put on a new skip plate. Call me overly cautious all you want, but it is one thing being proactive about (at a reasonable price) will insure I do not have any problems with.
You are right about there being plenty of VW dealers. But finding a dealer who employs a good TDI mechanic is another story. I wish there were a listing place were TDI service was rated in the North East.
Thanks hope the best of luck to you and your new TDI in the future.
Diesel_soot
The cost of the car is $22,000 and we currently have no car payment, is the diesel really worth buying and having a car payment? We would get double gas mileage then our 2003 Bonneville.
What are your thoughts??
Thanks