Hybrid Gas Mileage Good? Bad? As Expected?

xcel · December 2005

Hi Gagrice:

My Suburban was a 13-14 MPG around town rig. It would get 17 MPG on the highway.

Well Ill be, you received 13 - 14 mpg around town in the suburban but CRs received just 16 in a 4cyl. Accord? CRs says an 04 Suburban is worth just 9 around town in good temps! Where are all those Chevrolet Suburban drivers receiving 9 mpg in a truck rated for 15/20 per the EPA? By god those Chevrolet Suburban Owners should be pissed if they are receiving ~ ½ THE EPA ESTIMATES! Those same individuals driving Suburbans would be proud to receive better then 3/4 the EPA Estimates in a Prius II I would have to imagine? What are you saying Gary, ~ ½ the EPA estimate in a Chevrolet Suburban is better then > then 3/4 the EPA estimate in a Prius II?

My new hybrid had 670 miles when I filled it yesterday. Didn't bother to figure the mileage. Somewhere around 15 MPG.

Gagrice, you own a VW TDI that you have a spreadsheet for down to the last ounce of fuel and miles traveled but your brand new Hybrid Silverado wasnt worth taking the 670 miles - previous tanks fill up odo reading divided by number of gallons filled? You can do better then guessing around 15 mpg from a truck that should be worth 18/21? That is 26% below the EPA combined. What is a matter with your Truck?

Now back to the point at hand. You can bet your bottom dollar if I bought a Prius and it only got 35 MPG when it has an EPA of 55 MPG combined

Would you care to tell me who you know that is receiving just 35 mpg in their Prius II? Can you name these individuals by name please. I can name plenty of Prius II drivers receiving 45, 50, 55, and even 60 + year round on a first name basis.

That is why I bought the Passat. It gets what it is advertised to get. It gets better in town than I expected.

That is why I owned an Insight. It received better then what it was advertised to receive. That is why every time I have driven a Prius II it has received much better then what it was advertised to receive. It is also the same with the FEH and HCH-Is I have driven. I guess your FE in the Passat stinks and you should be taking it back into the dealer when all you can receive is EPA city estimates. Its combined is somewhere in the low to mid 30s, right? 27 from a low to mid 30s TDI is pretty poor. What is a matter with your TDI anyway? I receive more then that in the Acura MDX when driving back from the gas station which is ~ 1.5 miles away and lower in elevation by ~ 20!

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

fndlyfmrflyr · December 2005

I've been following the A/C on fuel cost comments. On the highway, if the A/C is off, one would tend to open the window(s). This causes additional drag, which means additional fuel used. With today's small efficient compressors one must wonder if it isn't more costly (in fuel) to drive on the highway with the windows open rather than use the A/C.

More on topic: Our 05 Prius gets about what I expected given that we have not changed how we drive. The A/C is on nearly all the time and freeway speeds are 75 or so. We keep up with local and freeway traffic and don't go slow trying to save fuel. For the first 8000 miles, the mpg is 44.5.

falconone · December 2005

Your arguments are quite compelling. When you look at percentages it appears that SUVs are off on their EPA claims than smaller vehicles. Funny how the media hasn't picked up on that. If/When I own a Prius I am quite certain I'll be happy with high 40's. As I mentioned numerous times, I can easily get low 40's driving a constant 80 MPH. Try doing that in a Suburban!! LOL

gagrice · December 2005

Would you care to tell me who you know that is receiving just 35 mpg in their Prius II?

You should be directing your anger & frustration at the 50+ Prius II owners on GH that are getting 20-35% below EPA. I thought that was some kind of hypermiler club. Don't you take away their driving privelege when they drop 10% below EPA? If you think the Passat mileage stinks at less than 10% under EPA. How do you feel about the average Prius owner getting 13% below EPA? In fact I only see 6% of 393 Prius II owners getting EPA on GH. If that is not an indictment on the HSD technology, what would be in your opinion?

PS
I have the mileage info in the GMC glove box. Just have not put it on the spreadsheet. The Passat was bought to see if I liked diesel cars, and make a couple grand on someone that cannot wait until the price is right. To me handling and utility are way ahead of mileage on the list. The Passat fills that hand with aces. Maybe someday Honda & Toyota will build a car that handles on a par with their reliability. Until then I'll take handling.

gagrice · December 2005

CRs says an 04 Suburban is worth just 9 around town in good temps!

What's your point? That is 64% of the 14 MPG EPA city rating. CR also got 35 MPG on the Prius II in town. That is only 58% of the EPA city rating. I don't think people buy Suburbans to save on gas. They buy them to haul lots of people and stuff. I miss my Suburban, should have just kept it.

misterme · December 2005

"I know in Atlanta it is 75 degrees year round so that is not an issue with your driving"

This goes along the same line as other things that are said "to be known".

Atlanta summers near 100 degrees and near 100% humidity summer days, 80 degree nights.
Atlanta winters around 50 degrees day and below freezing at night.

Although this isn't as extreme as our Northern neighbors it's not Florida either. I still exceed 60MPG and +800 mile tanks in my '04 HCH this winter, well above what I expected.
Half my commute is 5:00PM rush hour, other half is 3:00AM cold early morning.

When I bought my car with its EPA estimate...coming from a Dodge that only averaged 16-17MPG I'd have been happy with just 40MPG. I really didn't expect the full EPA figures. (47/49 I think it was)
Holy cow I had no idea what the car would do.

xcel · December 2005

Hi Gagrice:

You should be directing your anger & frustration at the 50+ Prius II owners on GH that are getting 20-35% below EPA.

By your posts, it appears you are the one unhappy, not the hundreds averaging 48 mpg year round in their Prius IIs which is 87% of EPA combined. Your TDI is averaging just 87% of EPA combined. Are you angry and frustrated that you are only receiving 26.xx mpg in your TDI or would you rather receive 48 in a Prius II? I think everybody would rather receive 48 mpg instead of 26.x mpg, wouldnt you?

I thought that was some kind of hypermiler club.

Why would you think that? The only thing I see here is your anti-hybrid whine?

In fact I only see 6% of 393 Prius II owners getting EPA on GH. If that is not an indictment on the HSD technology, what would be in your opinion?

Since all Prius II owners posting tanks over at GH are averaging 48 mpg overall, what does that say for anything you own? You just hit 87% of EPA combined in your TDI and that is your best showing

To me handling and utility are way ahead of mileage on the list.

I can understand utility but handling? Did you ever take your Suburban into a fast sweeper at .75Gs? If so, you must have spent a lot of time upside down on the roof? I would not call a Chevrolet Suburban or Silverado good handlers by any stretch And about that Passat? It appears to me that both the Civic and Accord break loose a bit beyond the Passat. I cant say that for the Prius II but it is averaging almost 2Xs the FE of your Passat so I do not think those that own them are taking them into a fast sweepers at anywhere near their limits of adhesion given they really do not care about such things

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~kpfleger/auto/handling.html

What's your point?

What is yours? You are the one complaining about the Prius II when you used to own a Suburban that CRs hit just 13 mpg overall or 74% of the EPA combined. Your Silverado is receiving ~ 77% of the EPA combined. This compares to CRs Prius II receiving 80% of its EPA combined. Are you just as active in the Chevrolet Suburban and Silverado forums telling them there automobiles suck because they receive a smaller % of EPA then Prius II owners? I am sure Suburban and Silverado owners are not only always hauling lots of people and stuff but also love paying ~ $100.00 a week for gas vs. the Prius IIs ~ $30.00 over the same distance using CRs FE figures!

I sure am glad those that had a choice between the Prius II and the Suburban chose the Prius II for all our sakes

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

falconone · December 2005

Wayne--- Your points are exactly my sentiments as well. As usual, your responses are spot on and accurate. It makes no sense to complain about a car that gets TWICE the mileage as the current car one is driving. Sour grapes?? :confuse: If I had your driving techniques where you can achieve high 40's in an Accord, I may just have to rethink my purchase! I seem to be going around in circles now having my eye on the new RAV4. I appreciate your contributions to this forum.

gagrice · December 2005

Are you angry and frustrated that you are only receiving 26.xx mpg in your TDI

Not even a little bit.

would you rather receive 48 in a Prius II?

No, I would rather receive 48 MPG in a VW Beetle TDI. Which I will probably buy when I sell the Passat. When the Beetle has 7500 miles and I sell it who knows what I will buy. Maybe by that time some company will build a plugin hybrid or a series hybrid. Maybe Honda will bring their diesel to America for me to try.

I can understand utility but handling?

You don't sound like you understand that the Suburban & Silverado are for utility. The Passat is for handling. I don't suppose you would want to take a 100 mile trip on the back roads of our mountains with your Accord against the Passat. If you think it handles so well.

excerpts from Edmund's
Honda Accord cons:
Tepid handling, brakes should be more powerful

Passat:
Better handling dynamics than most sedans in its class,

Good brakes and handling trump high mileage any day of the week for me.

larsb · December 2005

This past weekend, for the first time in almost 90 days, I took my 2004 HCH onto a FREEWAY !!! (drama !!!)

My normal daily commute is all city streets, and I have learned all the "below 50 MPH" sweet spots and have used all the techniques I know and have managed to keep my last three tanks above 50 MPG.

This latest tank was at 300 miles and sitting at 51.0 MPG when my two kiddos and I entered the freeway Saturday morning for a 20 mile trip to see Narnia on the biggest movie screen in the Southwest USA.

I was very worried that highway speeds were going to deflate my MPG, and although the car is rated 51 MPG on the hwy, that is with the EPA test which never exceeds 60 MPH in that portion of the test. I was getting on a freeway which topped out at 65 MPH, and many people drive 75 on it.

Lucky for me, this was 7:45 AM Saturday, so the freeways in Phoenix were pretty abandoned compared to later in the day. I was able to mostly stay out of people's way, keeping my speed fluctuating between 50 and 60 MPH most of the time.

By the time I got to the movie theater, my tank had moved up to 51.8 MPG !! I had gained .8 MPG on a 20 mile highway jaunt !! The trip back was down a different freeway in a later part of the day, and I expected a lot more people and a lot more speeders, but it turned out there were a couple of minor delays and the same speeds as the first leg were possible, so I turned into my driveway still sitting at 51.8 MPG.

I'm going to be a little less worried about freeway travel next time !!! Love my HCH !! :shades:

tahoey · December 2005

I don't quite understand why in the world a person would compare mileage on a suburban and a Toyota Speck. Of course the Suburban burns more gas, it's 5x the vehicle of the Toyota.
Oh, and you won't care how much gas you've burn when you are driving your Toyota Speck down the freeway, get in a wreck, and all dead. Oh, and the guy in the Suburban in the same wreck it telling all of his friends about the poor guy in a Toyota Speck who died when then both rear-ended the car in front on them.
Oh, and for the Eco-freaks, most half-ton Suburbans burn E85, while your Toyota still burns hated fossil fuels.

falconone · December 2005

The Suburban gets better mileage than a Corolla. Especially when half its life is on the mechanic's lift. Oh... the Toyota can use E85 fuel.

rorr · December 2005

What's really inname is a claim the Suburban is 5x the vehicle of the Toyota. That's really dunb. And ingorunt.

BTW - the extra mass actually works AGAINST the driver/passengers of a Suburban when hitting an immobile object like a tree or bridge abutment. The body/frame of the vehicle must absorb much more kinetic energy (since the vehicle has more mass) and inevitably, some of this extra energy is transferred to the occupants. The extra mass is only a benefit in car/car collisions.

Not to mention the fact that the Toyota Speck is much more nimble and better stopping so is more likely to avoid the accident (or reduce the impact velocities) compared to the Suburban. Not to mention the much lower risk of rollover for the Speck compared to the Suburban.

And I'm just curious - I can't seem to find out any specs on the Speck (

) on either Toyota's web-site or here at Edmunds. Is that a new model?

falconone · December 2005

Haven't you heard?? It's a new model only available in certain parts of the US. Quite a vehicle!!!

rorr · December 2005

"It's a new model only available in certain parts of the US. Quite a vehicle!!!"

I'll bet. Since the Suburban is 5x the Speck, I'm guessing the Speck is about 4' long, 2' wide, 18" tall, seats two and weighs less than 1000 lbs. Quite a vehicle alright!

falconone · December 2005

Absolutely!!! I also understand that there will be a $4,000 tax credit for all 2006 Specks, so I have my order in!!

warner · December 2005

THANK YOU! I'm happy to hear that someone didn't radically change their driving style to squeeze a few extra mpg out of their car. It's fine for people to play those MPG games, as long as they're not making everyone else's drive miserable by being in the way. I say to the hyper-milers, "Go get your record mileage on the weekend when the roads are not congested, but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas." I am a fairly aggressive driver though....so maybe I have my own issues, too. But I promise that I won't get in anyone's way or slow them down if they want to go faster than me in the left lane. (I'm not a closet cop...I'll let them slow people down who are going too fast).

Okay...I'm done venting....back to EPA stuff

larsb · December 2005

quote warner-"but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas."-end quote

I do feel sorry for you if passing a slow car can "make your commute miserable."

We ALL need to slow down. It's to the point of ridiculous to race up to the next red light - STOP, then RACE to the next red light - STOP, repeat all day. That's SO WASTEFUL and people do it completely by habit and don't even know any better.

If we all slowed down and saved a nickel on gas a day, that $12,500,000 saved every day. Sounds good to me....:D

warner · December 2005

quote warner-"but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas."-end quote

I do feel sorry for you if passing a slow car can "make your commute miserable."

Assuming I have the OPTION to pass a slow car, I'm not miserable and couldn't care less how slow someone else wants to go. I thought I made that part clear.

We ALL need to slow down. It's to the point of ridiculous to race up to the next red light - STOP, then RACE to the next red light - STOP, repeat all day. That's SO WASTEFUL and people do it completely by habit and don't even know any better.

Umm....I'm not sure about this but I don't think we ALL need to do anything that one specific group decides that we need to do. I'm not sure where you live, but where I live we are not under communist rule, and that's part of the deal...we can make choices. I don't ask that Hyper-milers drive faster just because I like to, I just ask that they not prevent me from driving the way that I like to. I will afford them the same respect. One person's rights end where another's begins. I drive a 2006 Civic and I'm not some crazy maniac (I just traded my 2004 in on on 2006 and averaged 35mpg over the 41,000 miles that I put on the '04), but I do like to move things along. I'm in the Chicago area and my family and I are always fairly busy. I'm willing to pay that extra nickel a day to save myself a half hour of driving. If someone else is not willing to do that, I'm FINE with that as long as they don't prevent me from doing that. I'm all for peace here, my friend.

Warner

larsb · December 2005

Keeping politics and communism out of it, what I said was that "WE ALL SHOULD DO THAT FOR THE GOOD OF US ALL" and that will not be any different regardless of what type of government is running things.

If you are one of the people driving too fast, you DO need to slow down, for the sake of all of us. Driving like that causes overconsumption (driving up gas prices) and causes more wrecks (rear ends) which drives up car insurance rates, and accidents cause more hospital trips (which raises medical insurance rates). Nothing good comes from driving too fast, but a LOT of good can come from hypermiling.

It's called "personal sacrifice for the good of all." Heard of it?

No, really, I don't want to come across as too harsh, but all you have to do is sit and think about it a while. Sure, our country is based on independent thought and no one being able to tell anyone else how to live, but there should be common sense limits to that. Drive how you want, but don't criticize hypermilers for doing something that is good for ALL of us.

warner · December 2005

I'm already driving a ULEV. I seriously doubt that my driving habits in this vehicle are affecting overconsumption any more than a hyper milers habits are affecting it. As far as wrecks, I have not had any wrecks since I was a teenager, so I must be doing okay in that respect. You are making assumptions when you accuse me of "driving too fast" as well, don't you think? How far does one need to go to be doing "what's good for all of us"? Why stop with hyper-miling? Why not just walk, ride a bicycle, carpool, or use public transportation? Maybe these hyper-milers really aren't doing enough for the good of us all? My point is that there is a limit to what people can be expected to do. If I drove my civic with the pedal to the floor each time I went somewhere (which I obviously don't), I could NEVER match the same emissions as someone driving a huge gas-guzzling SUV while employing the Hyper-mileage techniques. My point is that it's fine for Hyper-milers to practice their hobby (which is really what it is, if you get right down to it) as long as it doesn't interfere with others around them....just as I can drive the way that I want to as long as it doesn't interfere with those around me, right? I'm hopeful that we can find some common ground here. I don't think that what I'm talking about is unreasonable.

Warner

larsb · December 2005

quote warner-"My point is that it's fine for Hyper-milers to practice their hobby (which is really what it is, if you get right down to it) as long as it doesn't interfere with others around them....just as I can drive the way that I want to as long as it doesn't interfere with those around me, right?"-end quote

I contend that people driving too fast are doing more harm to more people than someone driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the "right lane=slow lane." Anyone who drives in the style to which I was referring, the "jackrabbit starts at red light only to accomplish wasting gas until I have to stop at the next red light then I shall again rush to the next light," those people are flat wrong and many of them do not even know they are doing something idiotic because no one has ever pointed it out to them.

quote warner-"You are making assumptions when you accuse me of "driving too fast" as well, don't you think?"-end quote

I neither assumed anything nor accused you of anything. I said, talking to EVERYONE reading my post "If you are one of the ones driving too fast." Notice the IF, meaning, "if you are reading this and fit this description, my next statement is for you." If not, then not.

As far a hypermiling being a hobby, it's not a hobby for me at all. It's a "Driving Style" and it has made me see how stupid I was for not doing this my whole life. I no longer worry about getting speeding tickets, and I no longer worry about rear-ending someone, and I no longer worry about how much gasoline I'm wasting, because I'm not wasting any - I'm using as little as required for my commute.

As far as carpool, bike, bus, etc., I cannot do that because I am a single father of two kids whom I am required to deliver to school and retrieve each afternoon. They are out of district boundaries because the in-district school is too far out of our way, so they cannot take the school bus. the City Bus would take away valuable sleep from my kids, who already go to bed at 8:00 PM and get up at 6:00 AM.

I hypermile and conserve fuel and reduce out-of-the-way trips as much as possible, and without a Hybrid, I would be much less effective at all of that.

warner · December 2005

I contend that people driving too fast are doing more harm to more people than someone driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the "right lane=slow lane."

Agreed. I don't drive "too fast", but some people do and you are right - they are a bigger hazard than the slow poke in the right lane. During periods of heavy traffic though, the slow poke in the right lane IS a hazard, whether you want to believe it or not. If there is space for traffic to change lanes to get around him, that's fine; otherwise he/she IS causing a problem with traffic flow.

Anyone who drives in the style to which I was referring, the "jackrabbit starts at red light only to accomplish wasting gas until I have to stop at the next red light then I shall again rush to the next light," those people are flat wrong and many of them do not even know they are doing something idiotic because no one has ever pointed it out to them.

Once again, we agree! I never start off fast from a light unless there is a chance to make the next light without stopping (and thereby having to start back up again and waste gas, create extra emissions, and all that bad stuff that you hate). I WILL take off from lights quickly when I know how they are timed (such as in my normal commute to work and home each day) because it saves me time which is more valuable to ME than a few drops of gasoline. I'm sure there are times when this saves me gasoline too though, in not having to stop for every light on the way home.

quote warner-"You are making assumptions when you accuse me of "driving too fast" as well, don't you think?"-end quote

I neither assumed anything nor accused you of anything. I said, talking to EVERYONE reading my post "If you are one of the ones driving too fast." Notice the IF, meaning, "if you are reading this and fit this description, my next statement is for you." If not, then not.

You got me. You neither assumed or accused me of driving too fast. I stand corrected. I'm happy to report that the negative views that you have about people who practice that behavior do not apply to me.

As far a hypermiling being a hobby, it's not a hobby for me at all. It's a "Driving Style" and it has made me see how stupid I was for not doing this my whole life. I no longer worry about getting speeding tickets, and I no longer worry about rear-ending someone, and I no longer worry about how much gasoline I'm wasting, because I'm not wasting any - I'm using as little as required for my commute.

Fair enough. To me it would have to be a hobby of sorts, because beyond the little bit of gasoline that I saved by driving that way, the amount of time I'd lose doing it would have to be qualified as a hobby for the amount of time I wasted doing it. What is it really about? Saving gas for the good of the environment? Is that what it is? That's the ONLY reason I could see for someone wanting to buy a hybrid vehicle. There certainly isn't a practical financial way of justifying the purchase of one. If someone wants the latest technology just to have one, that's cool....I buy all kinds of things that I don't need, but I don't then criticize others who don't agree with my decisions, nor do I feel that I'm somehow better or doing more for others because of the decisions that I make. The way that I see it, SOME DAY (and probably sooner than later) the hybrid technology WILL make sense from a financially practical sense, but it just doesn't today. I think we will ALL own hybrids (in some sense of the word or another) at some point down the road, but it's just not "ready" yet. I equate this to any new technology, like voice-over-ip or anything that had a time when it was really whiz-bang cool but just not practical. That's just my opinion.

As far as carpool, bike, bus, etc., I cannot do that because I am a single father of two kids whom I am required to deliver to school and retrieve each afternoon. They are out of district boundaries because the in-district school is too far out of our way, so they cannot take the school bus. the City Bus would take away valuable sleep from my kids, who already go to bed at 8:00 PM and get up at 6:00 AM.

That makes sense. I have 3 young children myself (12 and under) and although I'm not a single dad, my wife doesn't drive so it's almost WORSE because I generally have to drive her home from work (she takes public transportation to work on days that she can't ride with me - it's on my way to work to drop her off). I wasn't necessarily talking about you specifically (just as you weren't talking about me specifically when you spoke of people who drive too fast), but hyper-milers whose sole reason for doing so is to help with the environment-related issues. Surely SOME of them have a situation which would allow them to walk, bike, carpool, or use public transportation, don't you think? My point was (and I believe that you understood it) that people who claim to be better than others who don't follow their practices had better be ready for their own practices to be scrutinized.

I hypermile and conserve fuel and reduce out-of-the-way trips as much as possible, and without a Hybrid, I would be much less effective at all of that.

Once again, you'll get no argument from me about your personal choices. I think it's really cool that people want to see how far they can push the envelope; whatever the envelope might be. My ONLY gripe is when they feel their "cause" is greater or somehow more important than others around them.

Warner

mirth · December 2005

I contend that people driving too fast are doing more harm to more people than someone driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the "right lane=slow lane." Anyone who drives in the style to which I was referring, the "jackrabbit starts at red light only to accomplish wasting gas until I have to stop at the next red light then I shall again rush to the next light," those people are flat wrong and many of them do not even know they are doing something idiotic because no one has ever pointed it out to them.

Who are you to decide that someone can't do this? Maybe they enjoy the rush of acceleration. You don't like that they are consuming more gas than you, but it's their gas to use. You personally value the decreased gas consumption over spirited driving, but that's your decision. Then you've wrapped your decision in a "I'm saving the world" philosophy to justify wanting to impose your beliefs on others. But I'm sorry, driving like a grandmother is not going to save the world, or even the US.

larsb · December 2005

I never impede traffic for "very long" when I rarely get into that situation. I live in Phoenix, and very few of the roads ever make it to "one lane." In two or three lane situations, I am constantly scanning my rearview mirror to make sure I stay out of people's paths if I see them zooming up behind me.

When I do get stuck in a one lane situation, I do all I can to make it easy on anyone behind me who is urging me to speed up. I have even gone as far as turning in to an empty parking lot to allow a line of cars to go around me when I had no other options besides speeding up. But that's only happened a small handful of times.

There is a little one lane stretch about 3/4 a mile in length that goes around a resort where the speed limit is 25 MPH, and I get on that fairly frequently. I usually hold 25 MPH, and I can tell it irritates some of the locals who use that road a lot and OBVIOUSLY SPEED THEIR TAILS OFF.

I'm not going to be forced into a speeding ticket because of other people who might want to give the local government their hard earned money, REGARDLESS of what car I'm driving. Me, I'd rather spend mine on my children. :shades:

larsb · December 2005

quote mirth-"Who are you to decide that someone can't do this?"-end quote

I can't "decide" for anyone, and I usually can't tell them how stupid it is personally, but I can certainly tell anyone reading this forum how stupid it is. And it is.

xcel · December 2005

Hi Warner:

You and I both drive in the Chicago area and you are spending a nickel more to save an hour of drive time let alone receive just 35 in an 06 Civic? Not only are your assumptions so far off as to be laughable, your FE is pathetic at best. Thank goodness my PZEV Accord is much more comfortable and I receive much higher FE while driving between 0 and 70 mph on our tollways day in and day out Even amongst the massive traffic jams at the toll plazas we enjoyed all spring, summer, and fall. Must have been all those hypermilers in your way, at the Touhy tolls daily 5 - 10 mile back up right?

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

larsb · December 2005

quote mirth-"driving like a grandmother is not going to save the world, or even the US."-end quote

What you state is true right now, only because not enough people drive conservatively.

Look at these numbers:

250 million registered passenger trucks and cars and SUVs in the USA. Let's say 150 million of them get driven every day.

If all of those people slowed down enough to save a nickel's worth of fuel every day, that's $7.5 million saved every day. $225 million saved per month. $2.7 BILLION saved per year.

That's a lot of money not going to oil companies and/or Saudi Princes.

Maybe not saving the world, but no one can deny it would be a GOOD thing for us all.

falconone · December 2005

I happen to agree with you, but let's face it. The majority of drivers today drive faster than say 10-15 years ago. I drive on a 55mph speed limit expressway everyday. The average speed is 75!!! If you drive in the right lane because you want to drive slow, then you end up getting caught in merge mania. I hate the center lane, so I am almost forced into driving in the left lane. I'll be honest... I drive 75-80 along with everyone else i.e. flow. Believe me,,, I would not mind at all if that flow slowed to 60-65. Unless enforcement gets stricter, people will continue to waste fuel. You have EVERY right to go whatever speed you want, as long as you are not impeding others. I am sure you're an excellent driver.

larsb · December 2005

quote falcon-"You have EVERY right to go whatever speed you want, as long as you are not impeding others"-end quote

That begs this question:

What is the definition of "impeding others?"

Driving the speed limit or slightly below on a two or three lane "city street" road, regardless of the lane, should not be considered "impeding others."

Driving EXACTLY the speed limit on a one lane "city street" road should not be considered "impeding others" but a lot of people (mostly habitual speeders) seem to think it IS impeding.

Driving the speed limit or slightly below on a three or four lane HIGHWAY road or FREEWAY, in the right lane, should NEVER be considered impeding anyone. There are other lanes, if you want to go faster, get thee into them.

Oh, and here is my FAVORITE Pet Peeve: People who think the HOV lane is the "super fast" lane. If I want to drive 0-5 MPH at or above the speed limit in the HOV lane, I should be able to. But talk about making people mad - WHEW !! People who use the HOV lane for the SUPER FAST lane should be arrested on the spot. They are idiots.

falconone · December 2005

My definition of impeding may not be what others believe. IMO, impeding is going slower than the speed limit and/or not consistent with the current flow of traffic. Hypermilers make up a fraction of 1% of all drivers. I think the bigger problem are the seniors that are retired that HAVE to drive during rush hour. There ought to be a law that requires anyone over 60 to take their driver's test again.

gagrice · December 2005

What is the definition of "impeding others?"

My definition of impeding traffic is someone that others change lanes to get around and then move in front of the slower driver. I happen to be in your city at this moment. I just drove my new motor home down from Colorado Springs. I was on Interstate 10 impeding traffic this morning. I was trying to keep my speed under 70 MPH. I was passed by more trucks than you can imagine. They would go around me and pull back into the lane in front of me. I cannot imagine getting on one of your freeways and driving under 65 MPH. You would get run off the road for sure.

I also see why you are pushing so hard for clean vehicles. I could see the brown haze this morning 30 miles out of Tucson all the way to Phoenix. You air pollution is as bad as the worst Southern CA has to offer.

PS
Diesel was less than Premium at a station along Interstate 10 just before Chandler where I turned off the highway. It was $2.359 and regular was $2.229. Your regular is higher than Colorado $2.099, they were charging $2.799 at the same station for diesel. Good thing my vehicle has a 500 mile plus range.

warner · December 2005

Hi Warner:

You and I both drive in the Chicago area and you are spending a nickel more to save an hour of drive time let alone receive just 35 in an 06 Civic? Not only are your assumptions so far off as to be laughable, your FE is pathetic at best. Thank goodness my PZEV Accord is much more comfortable and I receive much higher FE while driving between 0 and 70 mph on our tollways day in and day out Even amongst the massive traffic jams at the toll plazas we enjoyed all spring, summer, and fall. Must have been all those hypermilers in your way, at the Touhy tolls daily 5 - 10 mile back up right?

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

Wayne, I'm happy that you are concerned about the mileage I've been getting (the 35mpg was on my 2004 Civic that I just traded in, by the way). However, I am more than pleased with 35mpg average so don't lose any sleep over my mileage. I have gotten as high as 40mpg on a tank before, but found it wasn't worth it TO ME to adjust my driving style in order to get that extra mileage. Now I'm sure you're going to tell me that if I adjusted it even more, I'd be able to get 60mpg. The truth is, I don't care. I don't care to drive that way, and I won't drive that way. If you want to, that's FINE....no problem. That's your choice, just as it is mine to drive the way that I want to drive and just the way it is for my doctor friend who drives a Hennessey Viper and gets less than 10mpg. We're all doing what we want to do. If you choose to granny drive in the right lane and stay out of the way of those of us who don't care to drive that way, I have no problem with that. Not everyone wants to drive like a "hyper-miler". Get over it.

Warner

warner · December 2005

If all of those people slowed down enough to save a nickel's worth of fuel every day, that's $7.5 million saved every day. $225 million saved per month. $2.7 BILLION saved per year.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that it would save me $18.25 a year. So, for the cost of a decent pizza each year, I'll drive the way that I feel comfortable, thanks.

Warner

gagrice · December 2005

If all of those people slowed down enough to save a nickel's worth of fuel every day, that's $7.5 million saved every day. $225 million saved per month. $2.7 BILLION saved per year.

If all the people drove ONE mile less each day it would save more than a Nickel. I don't think most Americans are interested in either option or any other money saving plan. We are consumers to the max. What was our trade deficit just announced? $68,000,000,000 I believe. No small part of that was new cars every from overseas. Plus all the parts for those cars. Somehow your nickel a day falls a bit short.

xcel · December 2005

Hi Warner:

I receive quite a bit more then 35 mpg in an Accord so you dont have to be concerned with this maximum comfort driver vs. whatever you are driving and the way you were driving it And about that granny sitting in the right lane while we are all crawling along at 2 mph for an hour. Thats right, the granny in the 92 Chevrolet Cavalier is traveling as fast or faster then your friend in the Viper and in whatever you are in at this time? I guess he bought it to look good because he certainly isnt driving to fast in the Chicago area as of late How about you? Are you pretending to do 75 in that bumper to bumper crawl we call the Hillside strangler or the Touhy Toll as of late? Funny how that grandma is kicking your @$$ to her destination! Pre-Open Road Tolling of course

Good Luck

Wayne R. Gerdes

warner · December 2005

I don't travel the same way you do, Wayne. I take I90 from Elgin to Arlington Heights and back....most of the time I can do 80mph at least a good portion of the way. My friend who owns the Viper lives in McHenry and drives a few miles back and forth to two different hospitals where he's an ER doctor, so I don't think he is suffering in the same traffic that you are, either.

Warner

misterme · December 2005

warner wrote:
"I say to the hyper-milers, "Go get your record mileage on the weekend when the roads are not congested, but please don't make my commute miserable so you can save a nickel each day on gas." I am a fairly aggressive driver though....so maybe I have my own issues, too"

It always amazes me how people don't realize just how much driving style drains the wallet. Take me for example.
Before my present car I was always aggressive, in fact my last car was a Dodge 4cyl that did around 15-17MPG. How foolish I was to rationalize my driving by thinking that I get there sooner so it all evens out. A car just gets what it gets with little driver influence...right?
Our Grand Caravan had worse mileage.

I drive almost 100 miles/day and HAD to find a solution so I bought one of the most fuel efficient autos they make...and learned a good lesson in economics as well.

I can drive fairly aggressively in my HCH and expect 30's MPG, or drive with the flow and get low 50's or stretch it out and get almost 70MPG (Average per tank)
That's almost 40MPG difference

Regarding conventional autos, I can drive the GC fairly aggressively and get 14MPG, drive with the flow and get 19-21MPG or drive more carefully and get up to 28.
Almost 14MPG difference.

This is saving more than a nickel each day, in fact it played a major part in paying off the hybrid premium within the first year.

Driving for efficiency has nothing to do with the proverbial grandma driver.
Anyone can drive slowly, creating a bottleneck and making drivers angry...just as easily as an aggressive driver creates dangerous situations by mashing the gas, swerving around other speeders and tailgating.
Driving for efficiency is a skill that can be learned.
I did low 50's for the first few months of HCH ownership and as my skills developed reached 60's and eventually higher.

Lately my MPG is low 60's and over the two years never once made a driver angry for slow driving.

I'm keeping a ton of cash in my pocket, the drive is vastly more pleasant & predictable. I'm no longer a real liability and finincial threat to our family (and others) for agressive driving...I'm enjoying this car far more than any previous auto.

I don't think anyone who's in the habit of agression could understand what I just wrote with that kind of mindset...I know I couldn't at the time either.

My hypermiling does cost more time though....about the same as a typical TV commercial break over a 50 mile trip.
up to 40MPG difference in one vehicle and 14 in another....not a bad trade-off I'd say.

looking4prius · December 2005

While waiting for my Prius to be delivered, I have been practicing my driving habits in my old ('91) Honda Accord. I have come to the conclusion that it pays more to take it easy. Why?

I am not rushing around as much; besides going the speed limit, I am not pushing it. As a result, I am driving safer. The commute to work is easier now. Although I have to leave earlier, I get to work on time and I am not bothered by traffic. On the way home, when sitting in 5mph traffic, I take my time rather than try to get through the traffic.

Plus, I am getting better mileage out of my old car than I had been. Previously, I was a jackrabbit who couldn't wait to get to the next stoplight (or freeway exit). Now, with a more relaxed method of driving, I also don't feel that much rushed.

So when my Prius comes I will be able to drive it and enjoy it. Not only will I save more gas but I will save my nerves, too.

larsb · December 2005

Great Job Looking4 ~~!! Welcome to the sensible side of driving !!!

Your personal stress level is down, too, you can be sure.

heyjewel · December 2005

I agree. I've been pretty much doing the same thing, basing some of it on ideas gleaned from a writeup by misterme. I've gone from ~ 22mpg to ~ 27mpg on my 70 mile RT commute over an 1800 foot pass in my Lincoln LS. Not earth shattering but an appx 20% increase helps at $2.25 + /gallon.

PS - Oh, I'm not waiting on a Prius though. Can't afford a new car right now. Probably wouldn't be a Prius if I could.

PPS - All that said, I have SERIOUS doubts about misterme's claimed 100% improvement in his GC from 14 to 28 mpg. There is NO WAY I think I could do the same in my Lincoln. That would be 44mpg. Misterme - how can I achieve that??? Best I've gotten is 28.4 and that was keeping it under 60mph. At that speed the only thing I passed in 35 miles was a garbage truck.

falconone · December 2005

I agree about the stress level. I believe hypermiling techniques can be used in any car. Look at Xcel who achieves high 40's in his PZEV Accord. He doesn't seem to be late for appointments according to his posts!!! If I were to get a hybrid, I would definitely get a Prius. Judging from all the non hybrid folks chiming in, it looks like hybrid mania is just beginning!! I think the hybrids (especially the Prius) are really going to do quite well over the next decade.

larsb · December 2005

For those who might care:

From August 8th 2005 through December 19th 2005, my Civic Hybrid has achieved this:

3,070 miles driven
$134.66 spent on fuel
135 days total
about $1 per day in fuel costs
about 4.4 cents per mile in fuel costs
about 49.3 miles per gallon
average fuel price was $2.579 per gallon

I could expect no better than this from anything this side of a Honda Insight. Hooray for Hybrids !! :shades:

falconone · December 2005

Actually...hooray you don't drive a diesel. At least you're being lean and green!!! Our planet thanks you!!!

robert47 · December 2005

I just purchased a HCH w/o navi yesterday for my wife. i filled up the tank of BMW 528i for $37.91. She is really bad driver as far as mpg. She said she averaged 51.2 mpgh from the dealership to our house (36 miles away - 60% highway - 40% lights). I already know that it will take too many days to fill up this HCH and will cost only $25. Thanks for the hybrids.

larsb · December 2005

congrats Robert47, and enjoy your Hybrid !! Encourage all your friends and family to shop hybrids next time they are car shopping !! Welcome to the club.

falconone · December 2005

Congrats !!! You made a wise choice!! Glad to hear you're getting such fine mileage.

bobw3 · December 2005

Maybe someone here can help me with my question. If an engine is going a constant RPM, say 1500, then regardless if it's idling, up a hill, down a hill, or on flat ground, if the RPM is a constant 1500 then the gas used would be the same...correct? So if at 60mph on cruise it's at a constant 2000rpm on flat highway and asuming I get 30mpg at 60mph, that means I used 2 gallons in one hour of driving at 2000rpm...correct? So if my idling RPM is 1000rpm, then am I correct to say that I'll use 1 gal for every hour I'm idling. So if I idle my car for 10min every morning, then every 6 days I've used a gallon of gas.

gagrice · December 2005

if the RPM is a constant 1500 then the gas used would be the same...correct?

I don't believe so. It requires more fuel as the load increases. You can maintain the same RPM and use more fuel climbing a hill than idling at the same RPM.

rorr · December 2005

"It requires more fuel as the load increases."

Correct.

Sitting in your driveway, you would need to apply very little throttle to rev the engine to 2k rpm in neutral. With really tall gearing and overdrive, one could be traveling in excess of 80 mph (in some cars) at 2k rpm. Obviously, the rate of gas consumption (measured in gallons per hour) would be higher than just sitting in the driveway revving the engine in neutral (no load) at 2k rpm. Gas consumption is based more on throttle position than engine rpm.

Hybrid Gas Mileage Good? Bad? As Expected?

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