Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I haven't had one CEL, no clutch problems, and my cloth seats are fine. Knock on wood.
Go check out the Accord and Camry threads and you'll see that there are pissed off people in there also. A guy just traded his new Accord because of brake rotor problems. Rattles seem to be a problem with many new cars. Can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if you bought a $40K car that rattled? Well, it happens.
IMO, the only truly concerning problem with the first year Mazda6s was the rust issue. CELs and rattles and a few recalls aren't a huge deal IMO, especially when a rental car is part of the warranty. FWIW, CR doesn't recommend the Mazda6 anymore and I'm very curious as to what they're basing that on. I'd bet the Mazda6 got docked hard because of the rust issue. CR figures those kinds of problems into their reliability ratings.
I mean, if people can forgive VW after numereous window clip and ignition coil failures, a rattle or two seems insignificant. The VW problems left you with windows wide open and your car stranded on the side of the road....and it took them YEARS to address those issues.
Back on topic....I wouldn't be concerned about problems with the TSX, Legacy, or TL, although I'm still wary of Honda automatic transmissions.
But unless they replaced your door's sheetmetal, I would not call it resolved.
Also, spiked soap made the sheet metal rust? Aren't they using galvanized steel? What does it say about the quality of the sheet metal used if some soap lubricant used to get some trim pieces on got the metal to rust?
And why have some 2004 owners complained if they stopped using that spiked soap?
I own a Miata and enjoy it thoroughly, BTW.
I agree with your conclusion about the head gasket problem, I'm just sharing my experience from the Subaru threads here. Complete engine failures haven't been occuring. In theory they could, sure.
But yes, to get back on topic, the engine in the new Legacy GT has not showed any signs of gasket failures so far, nor has the TSX engine showed signs of oil leaks/engine fires. I believe the TL's tranny issues are also sorted out.
Don't worry, be happy.
-juice
I think they must have a lot of regions where paint was not protecting raw steel, hence the rust started and then bled through the paint.
Craig
Well, it's not the door's sheetmetal with the issue, it's the window frame weld spots under the weather stripping. I check the situation often, and it doesn't appear to getting any worse. I suspect it won't be a serious issue for as long as I own the car, but maybe it will be 10 years or so down the road, but even then, you won't see it unless you look under the weatherstipping. Also, I check around the bottom and sides of the doors every time I wash my car and there is no sign of rust, and I'd see it easily because my car is silver. New door panels wouldn't have made me any happier anyway because they would've had to paint them and tear apart the inner door panels and reassemble them.
"Also, spiked soap made the sheet metal rust?"
No, it's not the sheet metal, it's the welds on the window frame that hold the weatherstripping sash in place.
"And why have some 2004 owners complained if they stopped using that spiked soap?"
Apparantley, early 2004s were also affected, I'm not sure of the exact build dates though.
-juice
They basically need to seal that gap. If you look on the edges of our doors and other body stampings where sheetmetal comes together in a seam, it is usually sealed for this very reason. Any raw edges, unpainted metal, or seams that are not sealed are asking for a rust problem.
Craig
-juice
BTW, the Mazda MPV and Mazda RX8 also had dismal reliability, and were removed from their recommended list.
Personally, I think Mazda, Subarau, and Acura are all going to make reasonably reliable cars, but that is just my opinion.
The 6, I've heard plenty of complaints, so that didn't really surprise me. Still, an equal amount of people love their 6s.
The MazdaSpeed version will be interesting, for sure.
-juice
It is not that we don't trust you but like Prez Reagan said, "trust but verify".
Nothing wrong with verifying, especially in the world wide net.
So please answer his questions/concerns: "please share the last 4 digits of your VIN, I'll have an SoA rep look up your case (if it's even true)... At least tell me the dealer, again I'll have an SoA rep look up 3 catastrophic engine failures all from a single dealer within a certain time frame."
Thanks in advance, Nelson
The GT has a quicker steering ratio, lower profile tires, stiffer springs, less weight to haul around, and Sportshift controls. Plus it's cheaper!
The GT is the sporty one, the Outback is tuned to absord big speed bumps and to travel on gravel roads and snow.
So if you like the TSX' sporting personality, compare it to a GT, is what I'd recommend.
-juice
Thanks!
Terry
You may have inadvertently put the transmission into sport mode, where it delays upshifts to higher RPMs and downshifts more quickly (personally, I like this mode better!). In normal mode, it shifts up at lower RPMs and is real hesistant to downshift unless you poke the throttle.
Subaru's 5EAT has three modes:
1) normal -- when you put the shifter in D
2) sport -- when you slide the shifter left from D (but don't do the +/- routine)
3) sport-shift -- where you actually do the +/- shifting.
I find sport mode to be the best, and it really makes the turbo engine shine. It is very impressive how quickly it can snap off upshifts under full throttle.
I find normal mode OK for leisurely driving. Finally, I find sportshift mode to be a lame replacement for real shifting (manual trans) and rarely ever use it.
As far as manual transmissions go, the Acuras win by a long shot here. I find the Subaru 5MT in the Outback/Legacy to be lacking in shifter accuracy and feel.
Craig
My wife fell in love with a dark blue GT Limited sedan at the Philly Show, and the only thing it doesn't have that she wants is Nav. So a 2006 for her would be perfect.
I'm not sure it's in our budget, but we may pick up a year-old used one in 2007.
-juice
Nice thing is it gets bigger rims and an overall sportier package.
The turbo gives you a nice kick in the pants, though. I don't think the H6 would be as quick, perhaps more linear though.
There is a small chance that I'll get a chance to drive a Spec B that Subaru is bringing to the US for testing and evaluation. Hope so!
-juice
CRaig
C&D's Outback XT automatic (slowest/heaviest Subaru with the 2.5T engine) matches the manual TSX they tested in 0-60.
With auto I bet the TL is quicker, it has the advantage in displacment. But with the manual the GT would be quicker.
-juice
Tx.
Terry
That means Subaru is thinking about it. I bet we see at least one of those two upgrades.
I don't like proprietary radios, let the aftermarket offer choices that you can't! I've heard you can buy a blank face-plate from JDM models and fit any double-DIN stereo, though.
Both my current Subarus have a 6CD changer that I installed, and my Miata's CD skips so that is next!
-juice
I haven't found any face-plates for the car yet but would be interested to know if anyone else has.
Terry
It is not possible to install an aftermarket stereo in the center console of any model with auto climate control. The HVAC controls actually share a circuit board with the radio! Best you can do is put the radio somewhere else.
Craig
Thanks in advance!
Terry
I'm not very familiar with aftermarket setups, but I believe this would require professional installation.
Ken
You can always add better speakers, but generally you'd need an amp to drive good ones. A lot of people add a line-out converter and them some amps to stock head units and get very good results. Actually, some amps can take speaker level inputs directly.
Craig
-juice
Anyone know about 2006 upgrades???
Hox
The tweeters are also pre-wired and they work well.
IMO the stock speakers are not all that great, and would be the first item I'd replace with aftermarket parts if I were an audiophile.
-juice
VEry bummed. How will the GT wagon compare. The 5 was too big and I want to spend less.
Will be looking at other options as well...
Thanks
I'd sample a Legacy GT Limited, Infiniti G35, and a MazdaSpeed 6. EVO and STi are a bit extreme for daily use.
-juice
Craig
Didn't they used to be? I think my '98 is.
-juice
Some people buy the subs on eBay minus the harness and they are basically screwed. I think it costs about $100 to order a replacement harness, while the full kit only costs $150 or so brand new!!
Craig
I was waiting on a 2006 model, but I can't justify paying that much for something I wouldn't use much (just think it looks cool!).
Or just frame a picture of Nav system at put it on dash.
Krzys
GT - 5.7 seconds (same as a WRX)
TL - 5.8 seconds
TSX - ~7.3 seconds (have seen it a little bit higher in some mags as well)
Car and Driver - Auto GT, TL, TSX
GT - 7.0 (for outback turbo, but have seen 7.0 in other mags, and even slower in Consumer Reports)
TL - 6.3 seconds (CD, Consumer Reports reported around mid-to-upper 6s I believe - need to double check)
TSX - (~upper 8s), CR reported it at 9.5 seconds.
Conclusion - GT is about the same as a manual but slower in Auto than the TL. The TSX does not compete with either.
Mikeod - The Legacy GT will be faster and more nimble than your 525i.
But think about this - the 2006 Tribeca came out at $1200 less than the current Outback VDC. You really think they're going to increase prices by $500?
Heck no.
Also, they just announced Nav will cost $2000 on the Tribeca, so it should carry the same price (if not less) on a less expensive model.
So my guess it with Nav a 2006 will cost about $1800 more, and yes that might actually include a small price reduction.
What he's saying is "buy now else I might not make my quota".
-juice
As people began to see it in person, they liked it more. The infamous grille is not that big, just 12"x16", and it's slightly recessed. So in person it's not as prominent as the pictures make it look.
Just for fun I measured the Dodge Ram grille and it's more than 20"x50". Roughly 10 times bigger in area.
Pricing was aggressive and projected volume is small (40k/year) so it'll meet that goal easily.
-juice
I do think C & D's 7.3 seconds is a bit over optimistic though. Most other sources get close to 8 seconds.
I think the realy numbers are probably a less less than 8 second for the manual, and close to 9 for the automatic.
You might be able to compare it to C&D's 5-60 times, i.e. rolling start with no clutch slipping.
-juice
While CR times are usually slower than other magazine's times, they are generally more realistic. With this being said, what they were able to achieve is pretty fair 0-60 #s:
WRX STi - 5.2 (maybe 5.1, I forget, but the biggest difference of the group)
Evo - 5.3
350Z - 5.4
WRX - 6.2
RX8 - 6.7
S2000 - ~5.6 secs.