Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL

ateixeira · April 2005

Was their TSX an automatic? That might explain it.

-juice

kevin111 · April 2005

The TSX at 9.2 secs. (thanks for the correction uncledavid) was an automatic. CR usually tests autos unless they say otherwise. BTW, the cars I quoted later on in post #358 - STi - through S2000 - are all manual trannys.

uncledavid · April 2005

Yup. CR did test an auto. I still think the time was a bit slow. For comparison purposes, I've seen the Accord EX Auto 4-cyl with times in the 8.6 range. I'd guess that the TSX is about as fast as the Accord (at least in terms of 0-60).

ateixeira · April 2005

At low rpm it's essentially the same engine pulling those two. The TSX pulls ahead at high rpm.

-juice

ateixeira · April 2005

At low rpm it's essentially the same engine pulling those two. The TSX pulls ahead at high rpm, and the auto takes longer to get there.

-juice

krzyss · April 2005

take your pick 2.4 or 2.5 ?

;-)

Krzys

thepdmm · April 2005

anyone know (besides nav availability) what will be added/taken away for the 06 legacy?

I have heard personally
little more hp
6 speed

the dealer I was talking too actually told me to WAIT on the next model year (believe it or not)

I guess this is a good discussion area for me to ask my second question

I have a TSX I may be ready to move on for a number of annoyances and I am thinking of the Legacy GT (not limited not enough head room for me) am I going to mis the TSX? am I missing the Legacy already?

thanks

ateixeira · April 2005

What are you trying to address, exactly?

A GT will give you more punch and AWD for all-weather traction.

But they are similiar in size and concept, so if you find the TSX cramped and impractical I doubt the GT will address those issues.

Legacy also offer a wagon option, if praciticality is your primary concern.

-juice

thepdmm · April 2005

TSX has great room not worried about that.. Let's just say I have had it in the dealer more then I thought I would given it is an acura.

not impressed with how much headroom is taken away in legacy limited however the normal GT has great room not TOO concerned about Leather.. sunroof missing will be a bit of a bummer but I can handle that..

has anybody had any STAND OUT problems with the legacy is the 06 worth waiting for? those are the kinds of questions I am hoping to answer..

and since I am asking for an opinion I am more then inviting people to tell me to keep the TSX.. I could have a jaded view just cause I am cranky!

ateixeira · April 2005

It's still preliminary at this point, those decisions might not even be finalized yet.

Heated cloth seats are OK, I like 'em because you don't slide around as much in a sportier car. That's not a biggie to me.

No moonroof is a down side, but you could get an aftermarket one that goes up and over the roof. We have ASC aftermarket moonroofs on both our Subarus, just not that kind.

You give up the power passenger seat w/o the LTD package, again not a big deal to me.

-juice

tsy · April 2005

The TSX is a nice car, fun to drive, more refined than the LGT on the inside (but not much). But performance wise, the LGT is in a whole different category altogether. The AWD alone does that. But when you drive one hard, it's a blast. There's something about the sheer acceleration that's just fun, that you don't get in the TSX. It still puts a smile on my face every time I mash the gas pedal. It's also a very comfortable daily driver. So since my wife won't let me buy a sports car (yet) this was a very good compromise. I had one of the first '05s here in Washington and haven't had any real problems. Some minor trim problems which were taken care of quickly.

As for the 6 speed, you don't need one. I initially thought it would be nice, but after having the car for almost a year, a 6 speed would mean more shifting and this car has lots of power so that a 5 speed is plenty. A little more power probably isn't that big a deal either unless it's a substantial increase. (but I haven't heard anything about the GT getting more hp- the base model probably)

As for reliability, the GT probably won't be as reliable as an Acura, but of course, it's too early to tell. So I'm not sure that's a good reason to switch.

Good luck.

tom

breld · April 2005

I also have a TSX and the Legacy/Outback is my short list for my next car - may be sooner, may be later - depends on the day you ask me : ).

My reasons for considering switching are different than yours - we just had our second child, and I would love to have a wagon for the extra cargo space and ease of loading, to complement the wife's SUV. I do want AWD too, though the TSX with snow tires has been just fine in Denver's relatively mild winters.

Unlike your experience, which I believe is the exception, I have had zero problems with my TSX. So, other than simply not wanting to replace so quickly a car that has been rock-solid for me, here are my hesitations on replacing the TSX with the LegGT/Outback XT:

1) While I gain cargo room with the wagon, I would prefer a roomier interior as well (I'm 6' 3"). The Legacy doesn't seem to offer any advantage here over the TSX.
2) The new Legacy interior is indeed very nice and much improved over the last gen, but I still prefer the TSX interior.
3) The power difference is, obviously, amazing between the two cars. But with that said, for most of the around-town driving, the TSX is a real fun car to drive. I had to get used to it, but if you know how to work that high-reving engine, the car feels pretty quick. 6 speed is, IMO, essential to the car. I can't say I ever drove the auto trannie, but it seems to me a TSX with the auto misses the point of the car altogether.
4) I'm hoping the 2006 or 2007 Legacy gets a 6 speed and perhaps a telescoping steering wheel. Perhaps an improved auto climate system (I've heard there are some bugs?)

So, there's some food for thought on why you may want to just keep the TSX. With that said though, I've got $400 in Subarubucks, and counting, figuring that I will eventually come back to the Subaru family.

Take care.

ateixeira · April 2005

I believe wheelbases are virtually the same. TSX seems taller, that's probably the only significant difference in dimension.

The Subaru Bucks referred to above come with a Chase credit card, you get 3% of purchases. What's really nice is that you can use them to buy accessories, parts, or even pay for service. You don't have to save them up to buy another Subaru, who knows what your needs will be in a few years, you might need a minivan and Subaru doesn't make one!

Just spent $100 Subaru Bucks on a tune-up kit for the Legacy, filters for the HVAC, and some oil filters. From an on-line vendor, no problem, just mailed it to them.

-juice

bodble2 · April 2005

Memory seats, and zenon lights are not in the cards?

thepdmm · April 2005

breld:
Yes I could be the exception and it may not be the car and maybe the dealer which is why I will probably try another dealer before I bail. Although admittingly I have yet to have any machanical failure, and at first thought, that is a major reason to KEEP a car. I have had little annoyance after little annoyance and they are starting to add up on me.. again not ready to bail YET however I need to start preparing the worst.

bobdle2:
are you asking or are you debating if they should be? (mem seats, zenon lights)

ateixeira · April 2005

Dunno about HIDs, the projector beams are already pretty good. They do have it in the JDM parts bin, though.

Memory seats and a telescoping wheel are among the most often mentioned requests. But Tribeca got neither.

-juice

bodble2 · April 2005

I was asking you, but no problem, juice answered (unless you've heard differently)

bodble2 · April 2005

I could do without the zenon, but I would love memory seats. A decent factory alarm system wouldn't hurt since I don't like aftermarket grease monkeys.

c_hunter · April 2005

We have a TSX and an Outback XT. Both great cars. I actually like the Subaru interior better, and of course, the Subaru has a lot more power. But the TSX handling is pretty awesome, and I think the TSX is roomier in the back seat area than the Leg/OB wagons. As for gas mileage, the TSX is WAY better than the Leg/OB turbo models, but that's to be expected given the HP difference and AWD vs. FWD.

Craig

fredvh · April 2005

What kind of mpg are you getting with the TSX? Do you have the stick or auto trans?

c_hunter · April 2005

Typically 25-28 in everyday mixed driving. We have the auto trans. I believe my wife got around 31mpg on a recent long highway trip.

Craig

axjoke1 · April 2005

I actually have 900 in subaru bucks back from when they were done through MBNA. I have a coworker that also has about the same but has no intention of using his dollars (ironically he was the one that convinced me to sign up for the program). Does anybody know if I can use his for either the purchase of my car or the ongoing maintenance? I believe they start expiring this year around july.

The check is made out to me but i don't see anything about it being nontransferable.

Thanks,
axjoke1

c_hunter · April 2005

I used SubaruBucks from my wife (combined with my own -- we have separate Subaru credit cards) when I bought my XT. Dealer did not even look at the names. People buy/sell Subaru bucks online so there must be a way to use them. I guess ask around more and you might find some answers.

Craig

uncledavid · April 2005

I'm an Acura TSX owner - but I personally think the Subaru will be every bit as reliable. According to Consumer Reports (and other sources), Subaru is one of hte most reliable makes on the road. Either way, both vehicles should hold up well so reliability is pretty much a non-issue.

kevin111 · April 2005

Subaru Bucks can be used for maintenance at a Subaru Dealership. It even states this on the Subaru Bucks themselves!

ateixeira · April 2005

I just spent $100 at 1stsubaruparts.com, on-line. I mailed it to them and they deducted $100 from my total purchase.

I bought a tune-up kit, some extra filters, an HVAC filter, and some other stuff. They even sell T-shirts, bike racks, trailer hitches, skid plates, you name it.

It would not be hard at all to spend that much. Subaru pretty much carries any roof rack that Yakima sells, they just re-badge it as Subaru OE.

Or pay for oil changes. The catch? You have to spend $100 at a time at least, so just use the remaining amount to order a Subaru logo'd LL Bean jacket or something.

-juice

thepdmm · April 2005

So I just test drove the legacy.. first off power compared to TSX... "wow".. must say that I recently drove a Porsche Carrera 4S and to be honest there isn't a whole lot of differance between the two (but there was more power in the Carrera of course)....

My wife noticed a bit of a rattle coming from the B-pillar couldn't tell for sure if it was coming from the trim or the seatbelt mount but definately from the B-pillar area. I also noticed that the B-pillar on her side was much looser then the B-pillar on my side.. Being that I am paranoid of constant rattles (as ONE OF the reasons why I am considering trading out my TSX) has anyone heard of this being a major problem or is it just that car? But as I mentioned before the B-pillar trim on the passenger side was definately a bit looser to the touch and tap so that could be all it was (just need tightened up, and the fact that the driver's side was quiet..

I guess I am looking for bad rattles (especially unsolved ones) coming from the car.. rattles here and there are okay.. rattles that are right next to the ear are not Okay..

other then that the car was fun to drive solid in driving and in corning and man does it have power!!!!! I was also surprised on how muted the turbo was (haven't decided if that is a good or a bad thing yet

)

again thanks for your time!

ateixeira · May 2005

Not generally a problem, FWIW Consumer Reports named Subaru the most reliable brand for 2004.

Was that car a demo, i.e. with miles from test drives? Those can get beat on pretty badly.

If rattles are the only concern, though, keep the TSX and crank up that stereo.

The turbo does mellow out the boxer's exhaust note, in fact I think it's quieter than the normally aspirated boxers.

-juice

thepdmm · May 2005

ya I would turn up the stereo but then the rattles go with the beat.. at least the one..

it isn't the only concern.. it is one of many.. the rattles just kind of make the other things unexceptable..

it was a demo.. and like I said it did feel looser in that passenger side then it did the driver's not TOO concerned about it.. however I thought I would through the question out there and see what happens...

Ya I have heard that the turbo will quiet up the exhaust.. I was more talking about the turbo whistle.. I am surprised I didn't hear it.. I am over it.. I am just surprised...

and consumer reports is worth a lot.. as far as reliability!! that is one reason why I am considering it.. Also the aussie's love them.. and I am sure that country can be pretty hard on a car depending on location..

ateixeira · May 2005

2005 is the first model year, v1.0 if you will. You may want to wait until the 2006 models are out. A Nav option will be added, too.

Aussies are lucky, they still get Subies with low ranges on them, can you believe it? Plus they have the roads to really push them off road. The police there use WRXs as pursuit cars, even.

-juice

thepdmm · May 2005

I hear you on waiting to 06 that has a few positives to it

Nav option isn't what I am waiting on but ya never hurts to get a second iteration of something..

ya they are lucky with some of the cars they have and some of the places they have to drive them.. (oh and the weather).. anyway at least I get to visit often..

kens · May 2005

FWIW, my 05 Legacy GT wagon has been rattle free. I've got 15,000 miles on it now and it's still tight as a drum. I haven't heard of any problems with un-fixable rattles with this model.

My father was just in town and he owns a TSX. I let him drive the LGT wagon again and he's amazed at the difference in power delivery (both are autos).

The turbo spool is very quiet especially compared to a WRX. I need to have the windows closed and the stereo off to just barely make out the "pssssssssst" sound coming from behind the glovebox.

Ken

bodble2 · May 2005

The TSX will lose the "power" comparison with the Legacy GT every time. Heck, even our old 200hp 2002 Accord V6 felt more powerful than the TSX. The TSX badly needs more torque, which only a V6 will solve.

thepdmm · May 2005

Kens
Nice to here that no unfixable rattles have come up!! also glad to hear yours is doing so well!! I would guess that a wagon would even have a bit more places that rattles could come up. That said with out any actual knowledge or history between sedan/wagon comparisons.. just seems like more interior more places for problems... (I would be getting a sedan)

so your father has a tsx, has he had any issues with it?? other then rattles and fit and finish.. I must say that I have had no mechanical problem as of yet.. but now that I am thinking of switching I must say I wouldn't mind the extra power the Legacy offers:)

bodble2
I also agree that the TSX is a bit underpowered however just throwing a V-6 in the car might be a bad idea given the excellent dynamics of the car! a V-6 would definately change the weight distribution.. don't know what the solution for more power is but I wouldn't want much more weight in the front of that car

bodble2 · May 2005

Maybe the solution is to follow the lead of Subaru -- a small turbo 4 that spools up quickly.

kens · May 2005

No, I don't believe my dad has any issues with his TSX. I've driven his TSX and didn't notice any rattles. His only complaint is that there's a tiny bit of valvetrain noise on light acceleration.

Ken

xkss · May 2005

I'd take a Subaru Legacy of a fwd Acura TSX or TL.

Subaru, unlike Acura, races their cars.

Also, Subaru has a Legacy model with sport suspension and a 250 hp or so H-6.

ateixeira · May 2005

They do plenty of racing, including F1. Lots of the engine technology trickles down from their race engines, as well. I'm not sure but I bet the TSX races in the euro BTCC under the Accord nameplate.

Subaru races in WRC, but they use the Impreza platform. Even then they're thinking about using a smaller car to compete with the compacts the French makes are using.

To be fair, in Group N rally competition they pretty much do use stock Subarus with just a roll cage.

-juice

ateixeira · May 2005

The H6 model you refer to is called the Legacy Spec B, ironically it is not yet for sale in the USA. Indeed it gets an H6 as well as a 6 speed manual and the sport suspension you mention.

Subaru has one in the US right now that is probably being evaluated and tested, so it might make it here in '06.

-juice

bodble2 · May 2005

They offer the H6 in the Outback so I don't see why they won't also offer in for the Legacy. I would take the H6 over the turbo.

ateixeira · May 2005

They may bring it over next model year.

I prefer the turbo engine on the Legacy GT, but the H6 for the Outback. I think that's how the engines and the character of the cars match up.

-juice

fedlawman · May 2005

fedlawman · May 2005

fedlawman · May 2005

fedlawman · May 2005

Thanks Ateixeira.

fedlawman · May 2005

ateixeira · May 2005

nice pics

-juice

thepdmm · May 2005

so the person that said honda doesn't race gets the picture.. foot in mouth.. but now I want to see some subaru racing pictures!! not that I am saying they don't do it.. just want to see them!!

ateixeira · May 2005

ateixeira · May 2005

Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL

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