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Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL



  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There's no doubt that engine mates up best to a manual trans. It unleashes every horse available.

  • The one downside of AWD of Four Wheel Drive is it seems to make people think they can stop in the snow and ice... I live on the corner of an intersection at the bottom of two steep hills. Today we got a nasty dose of freezing rain and I was entertained for an hour and a half by "Stars on Ice"! To be fair it wasn't just 4bys that were providing the entertainment but of the 8 (count em 8) cars that lost it coming down the hills 7 were all wheel drives. That doesn't count the Hummer owner who crashed once - drove back up the hill then came back down the same hill a little while later this time sliding down the on-coming lane (well actually scaping tires against the curb the whole way down :-).

    I called the police after my neighbor's cars dodged the first 3 bullets but got hit by the 4th contestant. The guy in the Land Cruiser went for a 2fer and hit both of their cars! I had called neighbor's twice and gone and knocked on the door to try and warn them and on the third call got the dad (who had been in the shower) and told him he should come outside because his cars were gonna... make that just got hit....

    Then a lady in a Suburban locked up on the other hill and just slowly slid towards the curb and rear ended a parked full size Ford pickup that ended up rolling 300 yards before it finally parked itself in a driveway at the bottom of the hill (pointed backwards). The unmanned pickup managed to pick off one neighbors car on the way by (they don't count in the total since they didn't have drivers). It was kind of like one of those insurance ads on TV where that golf ball causes all the damage...

    I think I may have decided in favor of the subie just based on this short display - that crash test rating it got recently might be more important than I thought! :-)
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Precisely. AWD/4WD helps with forward motion, but not with stopping. The problem with AWD/4WD is overconfidence which is often exacerbated by people driving in large vehicles.

    I hope no one was seriously injured in that accident!

  • No one in the cars appeared to suffer any injuries however two neighbor girls whose parked cars got hit probably are pretty sore from taking nasty falls on their sidewalks as they came out to check on the damage done to their cars....

    It was feet in the air flat on your back slick out. I made the mistake of stepping off the grass once and barely avoided my own fall before I gingerly turned around and shuffled my way back to the grass.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    that crash test rating it got recently might be more important than I thought!


    The AWD is secondary, then.

  • HID's are hot, but the reason the Maximas are so targeted is they slide right in to regular "non-HID" Maximas. Since TSX and TL both come with HID standard, a thief would be less likely to steal them.
  • LOL - well that's not what I was thinking when I made that comment more that I want to be in a good crash worthy car since there are so many 4X$ bobsledders in our neighborhood!
  • last year, I leased an STi (replacing a WRX which replaced a twin turbo RX7).

    When my wife's Acura CL lease was up, we looked at the three cars. The Mazda 6 was out because of its lower performance, throttle lag and the poor reputation (and experience) with Mazda dealers in the DC area.

    The TSX was a really nice car, but it just didn't match the performance and handling of the Legacy GT Limited (both with Automatic).

    We have had the Legacy for 12,000 miles and one year and it is a really nice, comfortable car. The Bridgestone tires on it are terrible, but not as bad as the ones that came with the WRX.

    All-in-all, I recommend the Legacy GT without hesitation.
  • The TSX was a really nice car, but it just didn't match the performance and handling of the Legacy GT Limited (both with Automatic).

    You're absolutely right. The TSX's handling is superior to the Legacy GT's. :shades: And please, if you're going to drive a TSX, drive the 6 MT version.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru really ought to upgrade the OE tires it uses, almost without exception they are poor compromises.

    MazdaSpeed6 looks pretty interesting...sort of a gentleman's STI/EVO. It competes with the Legacy Spec B, sort of.

  • C&D just came in the mail - compared the TSX, Accord, VW Jetta GLI, Mazdaspeed, and Potiac G6. The TSX won the last comparo that included a Legacy so it wasn't included in this comparo. They really panned the Legacy last time but seemed to focus mostly on fit and finish and materials - the car kicked the others in terms of performance. They complained about the windows rattling when they closed the door - they must have had a bad sample because I've always been impressed by the solid door thunk and the interior materials reminded me of my Passat - not lots of hard plastics in there???

    Interestingly they panned the Mazada Speed as well this time. It also seemed to out perform the others in terms of the stats but they didn't like the interior materials and the engine noise.

    Anyway this time the TSX finished 3rd behind the Accord and the VW. I'm in a VW now and love how it rides and drives but its reliability just sucks. I can see how the GLI won but in the real world a great performer that is always on injured reserve starts to wear pretty thin! I'll wait and see if VW can get it's act together before I buy another one. I'm looking at Acura Honda or Subaru to find a fun car that is also more reliable.

    The TSX is criticised in the recent article for a lack of power and I'd have to agree - I test drove one yesterday and found it had great handling and a stiff ride (which I like) reminded me of my 86 Prelude Si which was like a go-cart! The thing accelerates too smoothly though I never felt it press me back into the seat like the Legacy or even the Accord do. I doubt the TSX will get a big HP boost anytime soon as it would probably cut into sales of the TL if it did.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They should have looked at a Legacy Spec B model. Different suspension and wheels, plus red "brick" leather (dark red, very handsome). Of course maybe they're waiting for next year, when it's supposed to get a 6 speed manual.

    Frameless windows will rattle if you close the door with the windows half open. If the windows are up it doesn't do that.

    It scares a few customers off, but the Legacy and Saab 9-3 are the only mid-size sedans to get the IIHS Gold award, so it's definitely not an issue of safety.

    GLI won? It's way too overpriced for its size, IMO. VW owners already are having issues, too.

  • I was waiting for the Legacy GT for about 2 years. I windsurf, and I needed a fold-down rear seat (preferably 60-40 split) for my gear, so I wanted the wagon. Drove it as soon as local dealer got one. Loved the power, ride, handling and interior look/feel. Then, I turned on the stereo. Uh-oh... Piece of ...., and no optional premium system available... Then, I had my 14 year-old, 5 foot 8 inch tall son sit in back. Uh-oh... no leg room in back if my wife is in front passenger's seat, hardly any toe room under front seat... (behind driver's side even worse, because I'm taller than my wife and because sub-woofer for stereo takes ALL the toe room away). Then I read about mileage. Uh-oh, sub-20 mpg...

    I looked at lots of other cars, including 2006 Acura TL -- no fold-down rear seat. But then, the Acura guy showed me the brochure on 2006 TSX (which does have the split, fold-down rear seat) before the actual car was available. When actual car came out, I found it had the same great handling as the 2004-05 TSX, but with improved power, better looks, better steering wheel and gauges, iPod interface, Bluetooth, neat, easy nav that doesn't screw up the excellent audio system or the climate control, enough room for my son, and excellent mileage for a quick (although slower, of course, than the Legacy GT) car!

    Bottom line: I bought an '06 TSX last week, and I love it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sub-20 city, I think it's 19/25. Are you a pessimist, or what? :D

    Go to the 2005 Legacy threads and ask, most people average 22-23 mpg or so, not sub-20.

    You're stuck with the stereo, sadly. The HVAC controls are integrated so you can't swap out the head unit. You can on the base Legacy 2.5i or SE, but not any Limiteds or GTs. Subaru fell behing in this area, there's also nowhere to plug in an iPod, so people have crafted clever solutions to get around this.

    Congrats on the TSX, sounds like you picked the right car for your needs.

  • The radio will be able to be swapped out soon just wait it has not been out long enough. My 2005 GT didn't come with NAV so I put my sat radio in the spot above where the nav is suppose to be and it looks sweet. But you have to be handy to do this. Another 6 months and you will see aftermarket kits to put a aftermarket deck in. Mileage wise I am getting 9.8liters/100km on the Highway and 10.7liters/100km in the city. I got 40k on mine now and had the rotors replaced under warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Nowadays, with remote antennaes you can make an aftermarket NAV unit look and work like a built-in. A guy in the CR-V threads took a Garmin c330 and did that, mounted it in the center storage bin and the antennae remotely, it even powers on with the ignition.

    For the Legacy, I know at least one dealer in NY that sold a kit and offered the option on new cars. Of course now it's also a factory option.

  • Took a spin in both the TL and the Legacy yesterday, and these are completely different cars in terms of overall experience. I had my list narrowed down to both the TL and the Legacy, but was a little concerned about the FWD on the TL. I shouldn't have been.

    My impressions on the TL: Very smooth ride, good materials, sound system was above average. Quick vehicle, though it tried to hide that fact through the soft suspension which gave it a floating feel on the road. I set mt drivers seat to a good driving position, and sat behind it to get a sense of room. I'm 6 foot, and had plenty of space, and felt very comfortable. Highway driving was brisk and pleasant, but the stiffness of the pedals annoyed me in town. I took it to an empty parking lot to try some of its driving dynamics. I was able to spin the front tires with hard acceleration, and felt a tiny bit of torque steer, but nothing serious, and nothing that would be noticeable under normal driving conditions. The pedals felt a bit stiff, and gave me the sensation of a momentary bit of lag before the car rocketed from a standing position.

    Impressions of the Legacy GT: In a word, FUN! Not as smooth as the TL, bumps on the road were more noticeable. Not as quiet as the TL, outside noises were audible, but not too intrusive. This car is a rocket on wheels, 65 MPH, and 90 MPH feel the same, and completely under control. More sporty feeling to the car, acceleration was instantaneous even though it is a turbo 4. Had that push you into the back of the seat feeling on take-off. This car felt more like a performance enthusiasts vehicle. Not as refined or smooth on the road, but definitely a rocket on wheels. I tried the same test with adjusting the front seat to a driving position and sat in the back seat on the drivers side. Definitely less room than the TL, but much better the the G35x I tried earlier that day. So a compromise would definitely be made in terms of space.

    Conclusion: I like the refinement and space of the TL, but that sticking pedal almost drove me nuts. I don't know if all of them are like this, or if I just got a bad test car. In some ways I wasn't sure what the TL was trying to be, a sporty car, or a luxury car. As it was, it just wasn't working for me. The legacy, while not as refined, felt sporty, and under control at all times. Maybe this has something to do with the AWD? I prefer the connected to the road feeling that I received from the Legacy, and the raw power under the hood that just begged for more the harder I pushed it. For me, the Legacy was the right mix of power, and just enough luxury to win me over.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The TL is really a class above the Legacy GT. The L-GT is really much more a TSX competitor. They even share the exact same wheelbase (105.1").

  • I heard that the TSX was kind of a dog in terms of performance, so I skipped that one since the engine numbers on the TL were closer to the L-GT. You are right though, the TL and L-GT really are not playing the same game, and are probably not going after the same audience. I'm not really sure what else fits into the same class as the GT.

    I've also considered looking at a BMW 3 series, but I'm not sure the nameplate is worth the extra costs. I just don't care about car status, and I'm not willing to pay extra for it.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    The stiff pedal is actually by design. I noticed it when I went from a CL-S to the TL. Supposedly Acura was after a more "German" feel. You get used to it though. Now, it feels perfect.
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