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Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL

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  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    C&D just came in the mail - compared the TSX, Accord, VW Jetta GLI, Mazdaspeed, and Potiac G6. The TSX won the last comparo that included a Legacy so it wasn't included in this comparo. They really panned the Legacy last time but seemed to focus mostly on fit and finish and materials - the car kicked the others in terms of performance. They complained about the windows rattling when they closed the door - they must have had a bad sample because I've always been impressed by the solid door thunk and the interior materials reminded me of my Passat - not lots of hard plastics in there???

    Interestingly they panned the Mazada Speed as well this time. It also seemed to out perform the others in terms of the stats but they didn't like the interior materials and the engine noise.

    Anyway this time the TSX finished 3rd behind the Accord and the VW. I'm in a VW now and love how it rides and drives but its reliability just sucks. I can see how the GLI won but in the real world a great performer that is always on injured reserve starts to wear pretty thin! I'll wait and see if VW can get it's act together before I buy another one. I'm looking at Acura Honda or Subaru to find a fun car that is also more reliable.

    The TSX is criticised in the recent article for a lack of power and I'd have to agree - I test drove one yesterday and found it had great handling and a stiff ride (which I like) reminded me of my 86 Prelude Si which was like a go-cart! The thing accelerates too smoothly though I never felt it press me back into the seat like the Legacy or even the Accord do. I doubt the TSX will get a big HP boost anytime soon as it would probably cut into sales of the TL if it did.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should have looked at a Legacy Spec B model. Different suspension and wheels, plus red "brick" leather (dark red, very handsome). Of course maybe they're waiting for next year, when it's supposed to get a 6 speed manual.

    Frameless windows will rattle if you close the door with the windows half open. If the windows are up it doesn't do that.

    It scares a few customers off, but the Legacy and Saab 9-3 are the only mid-size sedans to get the IIHS Gold award, so it's definitely not an issue of safety.

    GLI won? It's way too overpriced for its size, IMO. VW owners already are having issues, too.

    -juice
  • autokratautokrat Member Posts: 3
    I was waiting for the Legacy GT for about 2 years. I windsurf, and I needed a fold-down rear seat (preferably 60-40 split) for my gear, so I wanted the wagon. Drove it as soon as local dealer got one. Loved the power, ride, handling and interior look/feel. Then, I turned on the stereo. Uh-oh... Piece of ...., and no optional premium system available... Then, I had my 14 year-old, 5 foot 8 inch tall son sit in back. Uh-oh... no leg room in back if my wife is in front passenger's seat, hardly any toe room under front seat... (behind driver's side even worse, because I'm taller than my wife and because sub-woofer for stereo takes ALL the toe room away). Then I read about mileage. Uh-oh, sub-20 mpg...

    I looked at lots of other cars, including 2006 Acura TL -- no fold-down rear seat. But then, the Acura guy showed me the brochure on 2006 TSX (which does have the split, fold-down rear seat) before the actual car was available. When actual car came out, I found it had the same great handling as the 2004-05 TSX, but with improved power, better looks, better steering wheel and gauges, iPod interface, Bluetooth, neat, easy nav that doesn't screw up the excellent audio system or the climate control, enough room for my son, and excellent mileage for a quick (although slower, of course, than the Legacy GT) car!

    Bottom line: I bought an '06 TSX last week, and I love it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sub-20 city, I think it's 19/25. Are you a pessimist, or what? :D

    Go to the 2005 Legacy threads and ask, most people average 22-23 mpg or so, not sub-20.

    You're stuck with the stereo, sadly. The HVAC controls are integrated so you can't swap out the head unit. You can on the base Legacy 2.5i or SE, but not any Limiteds or GTs. Subaru fell behing in this area, there's also nowhere to plug in an iPod, so people have crafted clever solutions to get around this.

    Congrats on the TSX, sounds like you picked the right car for your needs.

    -juice
  • pacman2004pacman2004 Member Posts: 5
    The radio will be able to be swapped out soon just wait it has not been out long enough. My 2005 GT didn't come with NAV so I put my sat radio in the spot above where the nav is suppose to be and it looks sweet. But you have to be handy to do this. Another 6 months and you will see aftermarket kits to put a aftermarket deck in. Mileage wise I am getting 9.8liters/100km on the Highway and 10.7liters/100km in the city. I got 40k on mine now and had the rotors replaced under warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nowadays, with remote antennaes you can make an aftermarket NAV unit look and work like a built-in. A guy in the CR-V threads took a Garmin c330 and did that, mounted it in the center storage bin and the antennae remotely, it even powers on with the ignition.

    For the Legacy, I know at least one dealer in NY that sold a kit and offered the option on new cars. Of course now it's also a factory option.

    -juice
  • dsmcarfandsmcarfan Member Posts: 4
    Took a spin in both the TL and the Legacy yesterday, and these are completely different cars in terms of overall experience. I had my list narrowed down to both the TL and the Legacy, but was a little concerned about the FWD on the TL. I shouldn't have been.

    My impressions on the TL: Very smooth ride, good materials, sound system was above average. Quick vehicle, though it tried to hide that fact through the soft suspension which gave it a floating feel on the road. I set mt drivers seat to a good driving position, and sat behind it to get a sense of room. I'm 6 foot, and had plenty of space, and felt very comfortable. Highway driving was brisk and pleasant, but the stiffness of the pedals annoyed me in town. I took it to an empty parking lot to try some of its driving dynamics. I was able to spin the front tires with hard acceleration, and felt a tiny bit of torque steer, but nothing serious, and nothing that would be noticeable under normal driving conditions. The pedals felt a bit stiff, and gave me the sensation of a momentary bit of lag before the car rocketed from a standing position.

    Impressions of the Legacy GT: In a word, FUN! Not as smooth as the TL, bumps on the road were more noticeable. Not as quiet as the TL, outside noises were audible, but not too intrusive. This car is a rocket on wheels, 65 MPH, and 90 MPH feel the same, and completely under control. More sporty feeling to the car, acceleration was instantaneous even though it is a turbo 4. Had that push you into the back of the seat feeling on take-off. This car felt more like a performance enthusiasts vehicle. Not as refined or smooth on the road, but definitely a rocket on wheels. I tried the same test with adjusting the front seat to a driving position and sat in the back seat on the drivers side. Definitely less room than the TL, but much better the the G35x I tried earlier that day. So a compromise would definitely be made in terms of space.

    Conclusion: I like the refinement and space of the TL, but that sticking pedal almost drove me nuts. I don't know if all of them are like this, or if I just got a bad test car. In some ways I wasn't sure what the TL was trying to be, a sporty car, or a luxury car. As it was, it just wasn't working for me. The legacy, while not as refined, felt sporty, and under control at all times. Maybe this has something to do with the AWD? I prefer the connected to the road feeling that I received from the Legacy, and the raw power under the hood that just begged for more the harder I pushed it. For me, the Legacy was the right mix of power, and just enough luxury to win me over.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The TL is really a class above the Legacy GT. The L-GT is really much more a TSX competitor. They even share the exact same wheelbase (105.1").

    Bob
  • dsmcarfandsmcarfan Member Posts: 4
    I heard that the TSX was kind of a dog in terms of performance, so I skipped that one since the engine numbers on the TL were closer to the L-GT. You are right though, the TL and L-GT really are not playing the same game, and are probably not going after the same audience. I'm not really sure what else fits into the same class as the GT.

    I've also considered looking at a BMW 3 series, but I'm not sure the nameplate is worth the extra costs. I just don't care about car status, and I'm not willing to pay extra for it.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The stiff pedal is actually by design. I noticed it when I went from a CL-S to the TL. Supposedly Acura was after a more "German" feel. You get used to it though. Now, it feels perfect.
  • dsmcarfandsmcarfan Member Posts: 4
    It's funny you say that about the pedal. I took the plunge and test drove a BMW 325i and 330i today. I didn't notice the pedal beeing as stiff as it was on that TL.

    I know this isn't a BMW comparison board, but I have to say that I've always thought that all the talk about BMW was just hype. I found out today that it is not. The 325i had a good feel to it, but the Legacy GT would blow its doors off. (Yes, I'm a bit of a speed junky.) Then I got behind the wheel of the 330i, and now I have a problem. The feel of the car was almost a perfect blend of luxury and performance. Now I have to decide if it is approx. $10k better than the GT. :confuse:
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "I didn't notice the pedal beeing as stiff as it was on that TL."

    Hmm...maybe the Japanese have out-Germaned the Germans. ;)
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    When I have enough money I will buy myself BMW 330 or M3.
    For now Legacy GT must suffice.

    Krzys
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd add the MazdaSpeed6 to your shopping list, though it didn't do well in a C&D comparo (the TSX beat it in the group ratings) and in a Motor Trend comparo (the Legacy GT beat it head-to-head).

    Still, try one out and form your own opinion.

    C&D's group was odd to me, they put an Accord and a G6 in the group?

    -juice
  • dsmcarfandsmcarfan Member Posts: 4
    Part of the dilemma is that fact that you could literally go to Europe 3 times for the price difference between the two.

    Gotta weigh the opportunity costs...what items/experiences do I value more than a car, and vice versa.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    Not only is the out the door price going to be way different but the "out the door again" and again and again price of the service shop visits will be significantly more for the BMW vs. the LGT or the TL.

    I thought it was worth noting that in the recent MT comparo of the BMW 330I ($42.3K), the Lexus IS 350 ($45.5K) and the Mercedes C350 Sport ($40,795)only the IS 350 was quicker 0-60 than the Spec B they tested in the same issue. The Spec B was in a seperate article(compared against the Mazada Speed 6). Now the Bimmer did beat up on the Spec B in the slalom 67.5 mph vs. 66.5 but in their figure 8 the Subie put up 26.4 sec @ .66 g ave. versus the Bimmer's 26.5 sec @ .68 g ave.

    I understand the feel may well be different in these cars but I think you could hang with any of these cars in an Spec B or LGT and not be "way" out of place. Also worth noting (since the fuel prices seem to be headed up again) MT observed 20.8 mpg in the Spec B compared to 19 in the BMW, 18 in the Lexus, 16 in the Benz and 19.8 in the Mazdaspeed 6.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be fair, 4 years of free maintenance are included, but it is basically built-in to the price.

    -juice
  • dowright82dowright82 Member Posts: 23
    you should seriously consider Bridgestone S-03 pole position tires.

    AMAZING. Read about them anywhere
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    September 2004!?!?

    Yes, I've heard that the S-03's are excellent tires. However, I sold the Acura 8 months ago... :blush:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check out the new R&T magazine, yowsah, the spec.B is for real! 0-60 in 5.1s, the only car to hit 120mph, and the best autocross times.

    This in a field of Bimmers, Audis, and Lexus cars.

    It took 2nd overall to the Audi, but it won their price-sensitive pick easily.

    -juice
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    Only 500 to be available in the U.S. though, right? R&T really did like this "sleeper" car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, just 500. They are still a few left around me.

    Next year it's supposed to get a 6 speed manual and some other minor upgrades. Probably this fall.

    -juice
  • madmike001madmike001 Member Posts: 2
    I'm considering purchasing a Spec.b (or a Mazdaspeed 6) and I'm interested in knowing more about the possibility of the Spec.b being "offered with a 6 speed and other upgrades." Do you know where I can get any more info on this? -Much appreciated, m.
  • madmike001madmike001 Member Posts: 2
    Forget that last email about the 2007 Spec.b. Here's the news:
    http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news/new-york-wrap-up-subaru-legacy-specb-167262.ph- p?server=46&id=128340189&secret=55d75d2144

    -m
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I just saw it in person yesterday. Looks great.

    It got the 6 speed from the STI (near bullet-proof), the Torsen rear diff, and SI-Drive.

    That last one sounds like a Honda model but it's basically a throttle mapping software.

    That black/blue leather look and feel great. Grippy, too. I loved it.

    -juice
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    about gear ratios? For the 6 speed, of course.

    Krzys
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    No info that I know of but it is most likely modified from the STi. I think the press release mentions that much.

    Ken
  • sglsgl Member Posts: 6
    I had a 2005 GT limited 5spd. It was a great car and a blast to drive. Unfortunately, most of my driving was to the shop. Problems with the steering, problems with the computer module, problems with the fan regulators. I just got tired of bringing it in. I bought a TSX (which I originally drove in my comparison when shopping for the GT). It may not have the performance of the Subie, but it's a great car and if Acura/Honda reputation is true, I'm done going to the shop. I just wish I bought it to begin with.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry to hear about that, you did have a v1.0 model, FWIW. Most of them are reliable, though we hear a lot of whining about HAL the climate control-freak.

    Better luck with the TSX.

    -juice
  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    Any thoughts on how far back I should go in Model Years? This will be my "bad weather" car and what is most important to me is:

    Heated Seats
    Heated Steering Wheel (do they offer this?)
    Leather
    Great Audio (how is the stock audio on a GT limited?)

    Is there a specific package that you'd all recommend?

    Were there any major fixes in 06 or 07 that would prevent you from recommending a used 05?

    Thanks for your recommendations.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Limiteds all have heated leather seats. So those two are resolved.

    Heated steering wheel, no. You do get heated mirrors and windshield wiper de-icers, though. They call that the AWP, or All-Weather Package.

    Audio isn't really a strong point, you could get a MacIntosh stereo on VDC Outbacks, but not on a Legacy GT.

    06 had some safety upgrades that improved side impact scores measurably. 07s got satellite radio as an option plus an aux input for an iPod.

    -juice
  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    Guess I'll have to save some $ for my local stereo shop! My price range is leading me to a 2005. Not much money left after recently buying my summer car (2001 Vette! :)

    I've seen some pretty nice 05's 30-40K mileage range in the mid to upper teens.

    Seems like a fun car for the money with a fairly luxury interior. Exterior looks just so-so but that seems to be true of most Suburu's. They truly are wolfs in sheeps clothing...

    Any thoughts on reliability? Will I be making many visits to the Dealer? Do they use standard oil (every 3K miles) or synthetic? It's been nice visiting the BMW dealer once per year on my leased X3.
  • taxesquiretaxesquire Member Posts: 681
    Exterior looks just so-so but that seems to be true of most Suburu's. They truly are wolfs in sheeps clothing...

    Absolutely true. I used to see a Legacy and not ever really focus on it - now that I know what's under the hood, I think it's got a geat, understated look.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I believe the intervals vary, 7500 miles for non-urban and if you don't do short trips, otherwise cut that in half. But 3750 makes it tough to remember.

    Subaru had gasket issues up until about MY2002, but not since. The turbo engines (EJ257) have been great. Other issues (wheel bearings on 02 and earlier Foresters and 01 and earlier Imprezas) didn't affect the Legacy. It's a pretty solid car.

    -juice
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