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I don't think being out of the area harms your bargaining power at all. You do not even have to tell them that initially, but if you do it may actually help your bargaining power, since you are indicating you are willing to travel just about anywhere to get a good deal. You don't really need to negotiate, just ask them for their selling price on a specific car that they have in stock.
Some dealers even post the discount selling prices on the internet. One in my state is at holidayautomotive.com, looks like they only have one speed6 left, but it is listed on website with sale price of about $5800 below MSRP. $24,798 sale price, $30585 MSRP. A while back someone on here had even called them and confirmed their pricing.
Another one that posts sale prices is fitzmall.com, I have not looked at their pricing though.
However, I think rebates are sometimes based on residence of buyer, so you would want to check on that too at some point.
edit: Just noticed on that Holiday site it says "We can arrange delivery anywhere in the United States or Canada!"
From a pure "stand back and look at the guts" I have to throw the crown to the Subie. There really are no AWD cars except Subaru that have the ideal drivetrain layout. The flat four boxer engine, centered drive train, and superior full time AWD simply can't be matched by the high tech gizmos and computers that the others throw at it. The Subie will easily go 200k+ miles of AWD fun. The Mazda is essentially a FWD car with part time RWD tacked on. Very sophisticated, and it does work well, but a spade is a spade.
My $0.02. Juice can give you a lot more.
John
BTW, if you are concerned about snow performance, I believe the Mazda will at least match the Legacy. The Mazda has the ability to lock the power transfer 50-50 front/rear. Both have limited slip in the rear. I think both will do equally well in the snow, given equal tires, but one downside to the Speed6 is that it comes standard with 18 inch summer only tires. I'm looking for some 17 inch wheels and winter tires for winter use.
The AWD system in the Speed6 is basically the same Haldex as used in the Volvos, if that makes any difference. I don't hear any complaints about them.
there you go. That is just the point. The Mazda is FWD until loss of traction commences, and then it is AWD. When we are talking high performance, full time AWD is essential.
John
The pre 2003 4 cylinder 2.5 liter had some issues, albeit a small percentage.
The 2.5 turbo, and 2003+, have not had any issues. Nor the 6 cylinder boxer.
So no. There are no issues on the new ones.
John
LGT is faster straight line but other than that MS6 has it in the braking and cornering departments. In my view, the only reason to get the LGT is if you want to mod the heck out it and get it to 350 HP. However, once MS3 and CX-7 increase the number of folks using the 2.3L Turbo engine, we might see just as many (and more reasonable) mods...
My $0.02
But again I submit that the higher performance driver's car is the Spec B. Spec B handles far better than the Legacy GT, and that isn't just shock absorber improvements. Less roll and bigger wheels too.
I believe there is an Edmund's comparison of the two cars that is worthy of a read.
John
I hope you meant to say that between the Legacy GT and the spec.b, the spec.b is the "driver's car", because the edmunds head to head between the spec.b and the Speed6 declared the Speed6 to be the winner in handling and braking.
I have a feeling the Speed6 got the short end of the acceleration numbers in the Edmunds test and the R&T test due to the ECU bug that has now been fixed by recall. There are many reports of sub-14 1/4 mile times with stock Speed6s. Also the car is very octane sensitive. Running less than 93 will definitely affect the power, although no damage will be done.
• auxiliary input for iPod or satellite radio on head unit. LGT audio system does not have this.
Other things that influenced my preference for the MS6:
• NAV not available in non Spec-B LGT
• I like the sporty look of the white/black leather
• steering wheel audio controls (LGT doesn't have them)
• electrically height-adjustable HID headlamps (LGT has halogen projectors)
• all windows have one-touch auto-up and auto-down (LGT does not have)
• dual-zone automatic climate control on LGT cannot be switched to single-zone
All these things are pretty nit-picky, but IMO, they are the things that differentiated the cars to me. IMO, they're close enough in power, performance, and appearance that I had to look at how much I would enjoy commuting in it 2 hours a day for the next few years. I don't regret my decision, although every time I ride in my friend's LGT, I get jealous of the beautiful instrument panel.
It may not have the same emotion and intensity of some other cars, but for $22K, what car even comes close to this: sub 6-sec 0-60, AWD, 18" wheels and sports suspension, Bose stereo w/6CD changer, power everything, great build quality. A few grand more buys leather, a sunroof and nav.
Granted, I wouldn't have purchased an MS6 for $35K or even $30K, but at the price I paid for the MS6 GT, I can't even imagine a better deal.
What do you think is a better deal for $22K?
-monkeymobile
"sub 6sec" Mazda gives 6.2(and don't tell me is underrated)
super cheap 18 alloys(they have 17 on a regular 2.3 mazda3)
NO BOSE stereo (only BOSE speakers),
sport suspension- PLEASE...
Great build quality???????????
How about horrible gearbox...ridiculous clutch action...non-reactive steering...grooved rotors on all the speed6...shortest and weirdest power-band
I would take the RX8 for 21000(not as much torque but with sport car handling or the GTI 20000(torque at any RPM, better handling, way better build quality)
1) The MS6 has AWD -- after owning a 200HP VR6 GTI, I would never, ever drive another high powered FWD car. Torque steer is an awful thing. The Haldex, while not full-time AWD, solves that problem and provides better traction in wet weather.
2) The MS6 has 18" wheels -- you can characterize them as "super cheap" (which sounds like a statement of fact when it's really just an opinion) but I like them for being understated.
3) The MS6 is a sub 6-sec car. You say Mazda's official figure is 6.2 sec? Did you also know that Mazda's official sales price for an MS6 starts at $28,555? Mazda, like VW has done for years, is publishing conservative performance numbers for this car. Several notable auto publications have tested the car in the 5.x sec range. Ignoring reality by picking and choosing your sources is futile. Do you really not believe that the car can pull 0-60 in less than 6 sec?
4) I repeat: great build quality. This is my first Japanese car and only my 2nd non-German car (BMW, Mercedes, Audi and VW) and I find the solidity to be very impressive. It has far fewer squeaks and rattles as my last two VWs or the Audi before them and the chassis is less crashy over bumps/ruts/potholes.
5) I repeat: sport suspension. The handling is almost as good as my old R32 but the suspension is far more compliant and balanced. The chassis on this car is the stiffest I've ever owned -- the car always feels in control, even under quick dierctional changes and heavy braking. I recently let a good friend (a VW sales manager who sold me my R32) drive this car in some twisties. He scared the pants off of me the way he drove it (he's been a weekend track enthusiast for 10+ years) and he was very, very impressed with the car. If he didn't work for VW, he would be buying this car -- his words (3x stated), not mine. He wants to drive the MS6 some more and take it to the track (no way).
5) Horrible gearbox? Says who? Non-reactive steering? I disagree -- I think it's well weighted and offers good feedback without feeling artificial. Grooved rotors on *ALL* the speed6? Not mine.
6) Clutch -- I was not enamored with it when I bought the car, but it has changed substantially as the car has worn in. The take up is more gradual but still trickier than most. I've had one far trickier: 1988 M3.
Listen, I'll say it: the car is not perfect and I doubt I'll buy another Mazda if they kill this car (which they probably well), but if you think the MS6 is overpriced at $22K, you're missing the plot. I'm a VW/Audi zealout in my heart, but the GTI and the MS6 are very different cars. Look at it this way: for $22K, you can't even get close to a 205HP FWD Acura TSX, but you can get a FWD 166HP Honda Accord 4-Door EX. Would you rather have the Honda Accord or the MS6? This car is a smoking deal, especially on a lease!
-monkeymobile
I bougth a new MS6 less than a month back and within a day the engine check light came on. Taking it to the mazda dealer, he conducted a WDS test and found a code P2006. and he reprogrammed the PCM.
Two days later, the check light is on and this time, The dealer changes a some intlet actuator valve or something. I don't remember exactly which part.
Two days later, again, the same engine check light. Its been in the shop for the past two weeks now. They ordered a new intake manifold (said it came in from Japan) and now are working on getting it into the car hopefully I should have the car next week.
I was wondering if anybody had any problems.. what could the Code P2006 mean and when would you need to change a whole new intake manifold on a Brand new car.
A disapointed new MS6 owner who has not had a chane to drive his car :mad:
P2006 Variable tumble control system (VTCS) shutter valve stuck closed ON 2 CCM
Good luck on getting your car back soon!
Any idea what exactly it means in lay man's terms. Driving with the light on did not feel anything different but considering its in the shop for nearly 2 weeks I assume its something important.
Oh By the way the light turns off automatically also.
thanks
Clearly MS6 is not worth anywhere close to $30k or its MSRP. '06 LGTs were selling for about 25k for the last few months and that is closest competitor for the MS6. LGT might be a better for some purposes (with straight forward folding seat and even a pass-though for '07) but I personally want DSC and that caused me to take '06 LGT off my list. LGT does get DSC for '07 but I will have to fork over an additional 2k for a very crappy NAV that is bundled with DSC now.
I am still considering an MS6 but at $30k+ I took it off my list because at those prices S60 R is way more attractive (sleeper) and has better value at only $2-3k more. '06 G35x is also a good choice as it currently sells close to 28k but only comes in auto. MS6 may have higher driver involvement but it is really hurting in some facets: brand name, looks that are not for everyone, not enough lux features for some... In its niche (that might be too small) it has no real competition!
Fasterthanyou: please move on and buy/drive something else but do not complain if anything you buy for $22k is fasterthanyou in the twisties or even in a straight line... Can you tell me any 4-door that has AWD, DSC, all air bags and can do 0-60 close to 6 seconds and runs under $25k?
I start to understand why you think is a great car...it is probably the fact that you never owned a Mazda before and your expectations were not so big. I'm telling you, the difference between a regular Mazda6 and the speed6 is very small. A little turbo rush is not everything. Many cars look good on paper and they don't really deliver ...Infinity G35 , Lexus IS350 to give some examples. They are often compared with a BMW and sometimes on paper they look even better ...until you drive them and you understand there is nothing to compare. You said you had German cars before so I am guessing you understand what I mean.
Believe me I really tried to like the Mazdaspeed6 (I knew about this car since they released it in Europe about 2 years ago)...I took about 5 test drives trying to convince myself that I should not miss the opportunity of owning one at this price but every time I got at the wheel there was nothing that could make me like this car.
I'm very surprised that you don't find the transmission of the speed6 miserable after owning Audi's.
P.S. You can get a 2006 Accord v6 for 22000 without too much effort but the Accord is not by any means a performance car.
WRX and 9-2x can be had in a wagon which is nice but the rear seat space and fit&finish are pretty lousy. The interior in the MS6 is superior to Subaru and Saabaru. Personally, I think LGT is more my bag but it is not price competitive when equiped with DSC. Frankly, MS6 GT is very comparable to SpecB in some respects but again MS6 GT is far better value, at least currently.
P.S. I owned 5 BMW's and the reliability was outstanding
However, I currently own (and contemplating replacing) a '91 4Runner (original owner) and that puppy has taken less than $1k of non-maintenance repairs in 15 years. That has been beyond any reasonable expectations. Does that compare to any BMW that you had owned way past the warranty period? Many of my friends who own those always drop $1k per visit for any real work and that is pretty hefty.
Furthermore, since you have owned 40 vehicles we can safely assume that you have not owned any (or too many) of them until they are much older. All vehicles are pretty "reliable" when they are within the warranty period. Reliability at 10 years old is probably a better measure than it is at 1!
I definitely had problems with the new cars: Nissan 350z(alignment, excessive tire wear, rattles) Honda Accord Lx v6(rotors warped every 5000 miles, rattle trap, transmission)to name only a few. How could I keep this cars for years.
I decided I am not going to keep any car for more than two years so I don't really care how reliable they are after 10 years. But if you ask me my bet will still be on a Mercedes or BMW.
If long term reliability is an issue for you why did you buy a Mazda? I've owned Mazdas(only new)and while they are reliable in short term..I don't see them lasting too long.
P.S. Right now I own a Subaru and a Honda so I think I am objective with my remarks .
I just came back from the dealership where I helped my nephew buy a MS6 Grand Touring with Moonroof and Navi for $27734 out the door including taxes. This is Texas some it's 6.25% sales tax. Used the S plan so it's invo plus $3500 rebate and $250 rebate for the Mazda travelling tour. I don't know about you but I sure would loved to own this car. BTW that's less than $26K for this a fully loaded car with leather, moonroof, power driver seat, heated seats, keyless start and a navi system that actually is pretty cool.
But it's true about the automatic option. I have NO chance of buying one myself because it's an understanding with my wife that all future cars have automatics. That's just part of life.
But $28K out the door for a Grand Touring Navi. Damm Mazda is almost losing money on this puppy. I used to sell Acura and I know this drives better than the TL 6speed and no TL 6speed Navi can be had for $28K out the door.
Frankly, after seeing the Sport and Grand Touring difference, I'd pay the extra the the Grand Touring.
And I am not and will never be a Subura fan so Legacy is out. Besides, Nothing comparable can be had for the price.
Bingo! That is the problem with targetting a more mature audience with vehicle characteristics that are not likely to work for a family of drivers. If your spouse cannot drive stick, (s)he is not going to approve an MS6 purchase! Target market is too small!
When the RX-8 came out, they had to detune the 247 238 HP engine to 207 197 HP for the automatic version because they didn't have an automatic that could handle that much power.
They've managed to develop an automatic for the CX-7, but this engine has been detuned to 244 HP. I'm not sure if that is to accomodate the auto tranny or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.
It is my acid test for auto enthusists. When they talk about being into cars and they drive a Toyota slushbox "because of their wife" I walk away.
I believe that '07 demand will only go lower with way more SpecB units coming out as well the new G35x which sells more units than Mazda because it is ONLY auto. Infiniti has nailed their segment and that is why stick is not offered, they know it is a money loser. How many manuals do they sell in G35 configuration?
The stick is one of the features that attracts me away from the G35x but there are not enough folks who are into more involved driving characteristic of a 6 speed stick.
Further, there are a lot of single males who want sticks, and there are a lot that cant afford a 325i, and there are a lot that dont want what everyone else has (WRX) or feel like they are driving an ox-cart (STi, EVO). Thats the nitch.
If it were auto, it could be used as a soccer mom's car.
I like the fact that owning a MS6 means you really drive that MS6 and appreciate what it can do.
If you need auto, this car is just not for you..
Quote" would take the RX8 for 21000(not as much torque but with sport car handling or the GTI 20000(torque at any RPM, better handling, way better build quality)"
ARE YOU KIDDING? Go drive them both again. :surprise:
If the RX8 is 21000, then it is not the model to compare. And even comparing the 28,000 RX8 to the 28,000 MS6, handling and build quality? The MS6 wins all the way....RX8 is a rattle trap, and the steering cant begin to compare.
I had an R32 for just over 2 years and mostly loved driving it -- the relatively rough ride and the squeaks and rattles (which the dealer couldn't fix) are the only things that I grew tired of. I thought about hanging on to the R32 until the MKV R32 hit America next year until VW confirmed that it would be DSG only (I still prefer manual). I also knew that the crazy resale market for MKIV R32s would subside when the new model hit the shores next year.
At the same time I was watching the marketplace for used R32s skyrocket in CA, I also noticed that Mazda was offering ridiculous incentives on the MS6, a car that I'd been interested in because of its "paper specs" for some time. I figured out that I could sell the R32 for a very good price (I ended up getting over 80% of sticker price back after driving it for 2+ years) and lease an MS6 for literally 1/3 of my car payment for the R32. Of course, I'd have to like the MS6 to make the deal.
I test drove an MS6 w/o the reflashed ECU -- it was exciting, but difficult to drive with any semblance of smoothness (touchy clutch + original power curve). Still, I was very impressed with the chassis rigidity, handling and ride quality. The interior was nicer than I expected -- not an Audi, but not a Nissan either (sorry -- I have no love for Nissan interiors). When I got the right price for the R32, drove an MS6 with the updated ECU firmware (from the factory -- VIN confirmed) and saw the deal I could get, it was a no-brainer. I was pleasantly surprised by the car and still am.
Granted, in the abstract, I probably wouldn't have purchased an MS6. That's to say I wouldn't have walked into the dealer last year and paid anywhere near MSRP. However, given all the factors at play, the MS6 met my needs perfectly. Especially given the financial incentives offered and the resultant *cheap as dirt* lease payment, you can see why I strongly feel that the MS6 is an incredible value right now. There's no VW, Audi or other desireable car I could touch anywhere near the price. Bets of all, this lease will allow me to save enough $$$ pickup a new MK2 TT in 2008!
-monkeymobile